Ibd

[DustysMom]

Maggie has been with us for 5 months now and 5 different foods. Her poop is pickupable only due to the Metamucil she gets. We recently went to see a veterinary GI specialist. We had an ultrasound (which showed nothing) and he put her on Royal Kanin prescription food as a test. The ingredients aren't what I consider good for her, she really doesn't like it and the poop quality is basically no different. The specialist feels that IBD is a real possibility and wants to scope her for a biopsy to see what kind of IBD.

 

To those with IBD dogs - did you get a biopsy to confirm or just try some of the treatments for various kinds of IBD? They want me to keep her on the prescription food for the time being. I can add baby food or broth to it to get her to eat better but doesn't that defeat the purpose of the food? She hasn't had anything other than that food for 2 1/2 weeks now - no treats, no nothing!

 

Any info would be greatly appreciated. I tried to do a search on GT but for some reason couldn't.

[Sambuca]

What foods have you tried? My boy was on 8 or 9 foods in the first year I had him, including prescription foods and the only food that worked was TOTW pacific stream. My vet and the vet I went to for a second opinion both said that I just needed to find the right food for him. I found the food and I couldn't be happier and neither could my pup.

[DustysMom]

She came to me on Purina One Lamb and Rice. We switched to Kirkland Chicken and Rice, then to TOTW High Prairie (and to VILE-smelling poop), then to TOTW Pacific Stream and now Royal Kanin prescription. She was also pooping 6 times a day (less on the RK but she's not eating as much either). I hate to put her through unnecessary testing.

[Guest koolaidnconner]

My Conner has IBD, we did have a colonoscopy done, but he was so sick we thought we were going to have to euthanize him at one point. He was on so many meds at one time and the only food he could eat was Hill ultra allergen free Z/D. I would definitly try the food for a few weeks to see if that helps, it preety much saved Conner's life. And if the food works, dont switch!

[NeylasMom]

We've had a few fosters that have been tough dogs in that regard that we've been able to get on track by doing something along the lines of the following:

 

Deworm with Panacur at least 2 times - 3 days each, 3 weeks apart (make sure the dosage is sufficient, likely 2 4 gram packets each day)

At the same time that you start the panacur, put her on a course of Flagyl (10 days).

Also start her on a probiotic at the same time. There are a lot of options but b/c it's easy to get from your vet, I'll recommend Fortiflora. A box will last 30 days I think and I would keep her on them at least htat long.

If she's a hard keeper (not keeping on weight despite lots of food), add a digestive enzyme as well - prozyme is good.

You could also consider dosing iwth Pepcid (one normal adult tablet) 30-60 minutes before each meal.

 

Stick with one food, preferably a novel protein food the entire time as well. The E?N is really easy on teh stomach but not good long term imo. I actually like the Pro Plan sensitive stomach to get a dog back on track.

 

Or try a raw diet.

 

I would not scope until I did something along those lines. Good luck.

[Batmom]

How is her general condition and demeanor?

 

 

Does she have total blowout diarrhea or just mushy/toothpaste poop? Number of times per day now?

 

If her general condition and demeanor are decent, she doesn't have total blowout diarrhea many times per day, and the metamucil improves things ... She likely doesn't have IBD. She just doesn't have the right food for her yet. I would:

 

-1- Do the worming suggested above.

-2- Look for a food that's a completely different BRAND than those you've tried, and one that has a very different ingredient/nutrient profile. I put them in a spreadsheet, paying particular attention to percentage and type of fat as well as the ingredients other than vitamins/minerals. Maybe something like Pinnacle Duck & Potato, Solid Gold Mmillennia Beef, or IAMS adult.

-3- If that doesn't work, I'd go to a single protein, either cooked or raw, and see what happens ......

 

This assuming her condition is decent. FWIW, when I switch foods, I don't keep a dog on a food that doesn't work to see if things improve. Here they never do. You have to give it 3-4 days to let previous foods work thru the system, but after that if things don't improve I don't keep trying that particular food.

 

FWIW also, my Zema would've had crappy poop on all the foods you mentioned, too. She didn't have IBD.

 

Hugs and best luck.

 

[Guest SoulsMom]

Soul has had problems with bleeding in his GI tract combined with the big D. Don't know what caused it, the ultrasound showed nothing. Put him on Hill's I/D and he does fine. Since he does ok on this food and his ultrasound looked good we decided not to scope him.

 

(But anytime I try to transistion him off this food he gets sick again. I'm going to try a raw diet this summer)

[Guest Ola]

I'll add another recommendation for trying a raw diet. I would go really basic at first (single meat protein, no carbs, no veg, no supplements) but then that is my usual recommendation anyway.

 

Mayhem had awful poop till we switched to raw, even on several foods. At good times it was toothpaste consistency, at bad times I would hold the poop bag under his bum when he squatted cause there was just NO way to pick it up! We went raw a little over 5 years ago and the results have been awesome. His poop bounces now it's so firm, and MUCH less stinky too. I didn't pursue the diagnostic tests as IMO the treatment wouldn't have really differed if we had an official diagnosis. I used the money on tasty meat instead.

[RobinM]

If she truly has IBD- raw is out. Their immune system can be compromised if on sterioids and the bacteria alone from the raw which would not affect a "normal" dog could cause serious problems.

 

My Beau almost died prior to being properly diagnosed with IBD. We opted for a full open exploratory surgery. Scoping is OK but not 100% accurate. He has been on z/d wet and dry since Jan. 09

[Guest kydie]

I have a GSP with IBD, and yes we had him scoped and biospies sent to Texas A&M, IBD treatment (for us) takes a long time of medication, worming was tired first, he was tested for everything under the sun, and IBD was it, in our small world here, no available prescription foods were available, so for months I cooked for him, now I DO ALL THE TIME, and he still has his good times and bad, but TOtW works best, I did seek help in Pitts. from a holistic vet, with great success, many helpful holistic herbs can be found on line if you search, Good Luck, and I do understand

[fionasmom]

When I first had Fiona she had a nasty case of hook worms that took forever to clear up. Even after we got that solved she still had pudding poops. The vet suspected IBD so we put her on the prescription food for about a month. Her poops firmed up and we never had the problem again.

[Guest Fasave]

I had an IBD pup but he also had other medical issues. I did have an endoscope preformed on him when he ended up in ICU with severe edema and ascities (sp? abdominal swelling) but the scope was to rule out lymphoma. After trying several foods he continued to lose weight (normally 74 and down to 60). I ended up meeting with a nutritionalist who designed a diet specifically for his medical issues and I cooked for him from then on. If you are interested, she is in Boston but does phone consults. Also, if you choose to home cook, be sure to add the necessary supplements such as vitamins, calcium and fish oil. Hang in there. It can be challenging but can also be managed.

[Remolacha]

Fletcher has IBD, but not as severe as some dogs (like Beau). I did not have him scoped, my vet said, let's try treating him as if he had IBD, and see how he does. With a little (OK, a lot) of trial and error, I figured out what he could eat and what would cause problems. It seems to be different for every dog. If she is otherwise healthy, you can do this, if she has other health issues, well, that obviously complicates things.

 

Fletcher ended up doing best on a raw diet, but he can't eat the commercial packaged raw diets, it has to be the real deal, pieces of meat and bone . I recently started giving the girls kibble in the morning (TOTW Pacific Stream) and raw at night, and he can tolerate that about two times a week. Once you figure out what works for her, you will have to be extremely careful about everything, treats, supplements, anything that goes into her system.

 

Good luck!

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Kelly has IBD, caused, our vet thinks, by parasite damage (and possible illness before we got him). He is currently on Pred - 10mg/day – and ABs, plus a home-cooked chicken/rice diet which we split into 4 feeds per day to make it easier on his digestive system, with a vitamin supplement added for one feed and slippery elm capsules 3X day. These are a natural remedy which coat and protect the GI tract from the harsh meds, and help reduce inflammation. Kelly was initially very sick, getting blowout D every time we tried to give him commercial dog food. The worst D was with prescription food, prescribed by our then vet after he insisted his problems were down to allergies and couldn't possibly be from parasite damage. After that episode he lost around 20 pounds and would probably not be here if we hadn't changed vets and got a proper diagnosis and treatment for him.

 

Our new vet has suggested scoping/exploratory surgery on a couple of occasions, but we have decided against it because once on his meds, Kelly regained all his lost weight and his condition has improved considerably (his poops have improved too!). Our vet has been pretty understanding about our decision, because after all the surgery is not a cure and very drastic. She also said that it might not even give her any answers were it to be done, as even surgery doesn't always tell you what's causing the IBD, and that it probably wouldn't change anything in regards to his treatment – at the moment we are unable to reduce his steroid dose or get him off the ABs, because the D returns within days, and he will probably be on a home-cooked diet for the rest of his life, as I'm reluctant now to try any other foods when he's flared up so badly on everything else we've tried.

 

I think, like others have said here, it depends on how sick the the dog is and what else has been done. Don't get me wrong - if Kelly had continued to get sicker despite everything, I would have been more inclined to consider the surgery. But because he's responded to the meds, I don't want to give him something else to have to fight against when he still has a ways to go to get well from all this.

 

I will end this essay now (!) - I really hope you can get this sorted out and that your girl feels better soon.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Stripeyfan

[DustysMom]

To answer some of the questions -

 

She has been on Panacur 3 times, Flagyl and other antibiotics too. She doesn't have diarrhea -toothpaste to soft-serve consistency. She was pooping a good 6 times a day. Now on the Royal Kanin intestinal diet, it's down to maybe 4-5 most days. Her weight has remained fine. She plays early morning, sleeps most of the day, and sometimes plays in the evening. Typical gh. We're just about done with our first bag of RK and I'm so unsure if I should buy another or what to do.

[NeylasMom]

To answer some of the questions -

 

She has been on Panacur 3 times, Flagyl and other antibiotics too. She doesn't have diarrhea -toothpaste to soft-serve consistency. She was pooping a good 6 times a day. Now on the Royal Kanin intestinal diet, it's down to maybe 4-5 most days. Her weight has remained fine. She plays early morning, sleeps most of the day, and sometimes plays in the evening. Typical gh. We're just about done with our first bag of RK and I'm so unsure if I should buy another or what to do.

So poop volume is reduced by consistency is not improved? I would probably keep searching for another food. Try novel proteins, and grain free foods. I like Batmom's suggestion of keeping track in a spreadsheet so you can try to avoid common or problem ingredients.

 

Also can't recommend strongly enough that you start giving a probiotic and possibly a digestive enzyme like I mentioned earlier. I might try acetylator - it was highly recommend by a wonderful holistic vet and in addition to the probiotics contains papain (extract from papaya) and a few other items that are meant to soothe the GI tract. After not having good poop for so long, I'm sure she could use it.

 

You might also just try adding some fiber - canned pumpkin or beet root pulp. That helped with Tom Tom although ultimately it was the course of meds/probiotics and finding the right food that did the trick for him.

[greyhead]

Spencer was diagnosed with IBD without biopsy, by means of symptom evaluation and ultrasound, which did show a lot of damage in the small intestine. We decided against surgical biopsy because the results would not have had much if any effect on the treatment. He has done well on the treatment and on a diet that's 1/3 raw. If I run out of the raw and he doesn't get it for a day or two, he doesn't do well. If I increase the percentage of raw, he doesn't do well either. So we just go by what we observe. We went to a single protein, venison, which is also available in kibble. The problem is that so many foods are so complicated, including lots of carbs and ingredients that they don't really need and which seem to just confound their digestion.

 

It sounds like you got good advice from those who say simplify his food and it doesn't sound like IBD. Therefore, I'd skip the biopsy too if it were me. If it's IBD, ultrasound should have shown structural changes in the intestines, I believe.

 

One thing that helped stiffen Spencer's poop was the addition of L-glutamate (or glutamine) as a supplement. Not that I recommend doing only that, but it helps and is recognized by knowledgeable vets as helpful. You can get it at a health-food store or vitamin shop. Though not cheap, it's not prohibitively expensive either.