Osteo / Amputation Poll

[Ragsysmum]

Personally for me, in dealing with osteo, amp is not an option - SugarBear's breeder taught me to ask myself, "am I keeping her alive for me or for her".

My feelings exactly! Looking at the odds even shown in this small poll, I'm afraid I wouldn't put my dog through amputation in the hope of gaining just the few short extra weeks it generally seems to provide.

 

[Hawthorn]

I couldn't vote as we lost Teddy only 2 weeks after diagnosis.

[Bevd]

Being a vet, personally, I think this poll is not set up to meet many canine owners answers. I see too many who only have days or weeks not 1-3 months which is your first choice.

 

 

I think that this answer pretty much sums it up.

 

But then again, we have Darcy. Today she celebrates 20 months since diagnosis and amputation (which both took place on the same day). 20 months. I KNOW you wanted Polli to be one of the dogs who did 20+ months and I know Tom wanted that for Ember and I know everyone else who's taken the amp/chemo route wants the same and I'm so sorry that you didn't get your dream. But (and I say this as sensitively as I can), I did get my dream. There's nothing special about me or about Darcy - it just seems to be the luck of the draw. Some dogs go on for a good length of time after diagnosis (we know this to be true both from here on GT with Darcy, Winslow and others) and from reading other forums and reading stories after googling.

 

What I'm saying is that *some* dogs get to live the dream whilst others do not. If I (god forbid a million times) was faced with the same situation again, I would take the same road again (as long as the dog was a suitable candidate).

 

 

Personally for me, in dealing with osteo, amp is not an option - SugarBear's breeder taught me to ask myself, "am I keeping her alive for me or for her".

My feelings exactly! Looking at the odds even shown in this small poll, I'm afraid I wouldn't put my dog through amputation in the hope of gaining just the few short extra weeks it generally seems to provide.

If I hadn't taken the amputation route with Darcy, she would have been dead within weeks. As it is, she's alive 20 months later and not only is she alive - she's having a GREAT life. Yes, I am enjoying having her alive and with me but I can also tell you that SHE is enjoying being alive too.

 

Virtually everything we do as dog owners, we do for ourselves in part at least - including owning dogs in the first place.

[FountainLady]

It wouldn't let me vote either.

 

Pup started limping right after Christmas, we let him go in him in early April. No amp, only pain control. So that makes it about 3 1/2 months for him.

 

One of my friends lost their Lab last fall. Phil decided to do an amputation on Holly. She died from side effects of the amputation (from a blood clot) less than a week after they had it done. : ( You just never know .... He got just 5 days after the amputation before Holly went to the bridge.

[Guest Pipi5]

Gogh was diagnosed on January 20th, and I had to have him put to sleep on February 16th.

[racindog]

Wouldn't accept my answer either. But Ivy had 6-9 very good months after amputation and chemo.

[RobinM]

Virtually everything we do as dog owners, we do for ourselves in part at least - including owning dogs in the first place.

 

This in fact is 100% on the nose. Everything we do, we do for ourselves.

 

Yes, you and Darcy are the lucky ones. May she have many, many more happy and healthy years.

[Guest jettcricket]

My first greyhound Chance survived only 3 months post amputation. Cricket, my miracle girl, survived 9 1/2 months with no amputation although I do believe that she had chondrosarcoma, but it was never confirmed.

 

Personally if one of my hounds ever developed osteo, I pray to God it never happens, I would not do amputation.

 

My poor Chance had poor quality and maybe had 1 month of quality time - the boy had just turned 5. The only way that I'd ever consider amputation again would be a non-cancer issue.

 

ETA, it wouldn't let me vote either.

Edited June 16, 2009 by jettcricket

[Guest jettcricket]

Casey- showed symptoms in February- stupid vet said it was arthritis and sent us home w/ pain meds.

Same with Wag. He had a limp off and on for a good 6 months that vet diagnosed as arthritis. It turns my stomach to think of what could have been if his cancer was diagnosed earlier. For years I did a lot of second guessing myself with Wag's whole situation. Sometimes, I still fall back to guilt. Wag, my world, my hearthound, if only..

 

One thing I know: if Harley ever limps for no good reason and a vet says arthritis, I will demand an xray immediately.

Unfortunately sometimes with osteo it doesn't show up immediately. With both Chance and Cricket the x-rays were crystal clear. Only after trying different pain meds and another set of x-rays weeks later did it show itself.

 

It's a sneaky disease...with my baby girl, Cricket, I took her for chiropractic treatments not realizing that she had cancer. Ask me how badly I felt about that??? I'd never do anything to hurt my baby girl.

[Guest Gert]

I know for me, Scarlett fell off her couch the day before Thanksgiving. My vet and I opted to treat it as possible arthritis for the first 4-6 weeks as she was a super-senior. Amputation at her age would have been unfair to her. When the treatment didn't improve things we did the x-rays. I got my answer right then and elected to schedule the day I would let her go right then.

 

I have since decided that the amputation route is not for me or my pups. If/when it happens again, aggresive pain management is the way we will go and I will let my pup go before there are more bad days than good.

 

This doesn't mean that I have any issues with amputation, just that it is not my choice.

 

I'll be following this poll to see just what the outcome is. I agree with carronstar's post above, and I tend to feel that it's the minority, and not the majority, who benefit long term from amputations, and have always felt that I wouldn't take that route. I don't think it has anything to do with the depth of your love or committment to your pup as to which choice you make. We all love our pups and want what's best for them - that just seems to be a personal choice and opinion as to what that would be.

 

 

I agree. I, too, will be watching this poll. Osteo hasn't touched me yet (my first grey was lost to cancer on his adrenial gland), but, I know it will, someday. I won't know 'til it happens...but, I don't think I'd put my dog through amp. I agree with PiagetsMom, it seems to be the minority who benefit.

 

[Guest HeatherDemps]

It wouldn't let me vote because only the first part is relevant.

 

Dempsey first limped a couple of days after Thanksgiving 2007. Went on some pain meds for a few days and the limp was gone for 1 month. The Friday before Christmas, limp was back and the leg was x-rayed and appeared to be osteo. The (front) leg was amputated mid-January- maybe the 17th?? We started chemo 2 weeks later and he had 5 rounds of that. Dempsey died August 28, 2008 at almost 12.5 years of age. That horrible cancer wasn't what took him though and I believe that Dempsey would have kept on going..... Dempsey had to be put to sleep after losing the use of his back legs. It happened incredibly quickly and we had to say goodbye so much faster than expected. There was no other option- the nerves in his spine were degenerating- they don't know why other than it wasn't cancer and it wasn't related to the treatment. A few weeks before his death, his lungs were still clear and he had so much life still left in him.

 

I too think of Demps every day. It breaks my heart that he is gone..... We adopted again (another iggy) a month ago. I started struggling even more with missing Dempsey. It's really, really getting to me that we are coming up on the 1-year anniversary of his death. One night recently I cried and cried and talked to my husband at length about how angry I still am. The next evening, we were sitting outside and the sky was beautiful. There were huge clouds with the sun lighting them up from behind. We glanced up and both saw an amazing cloud that was in the shape of a greyhound's head. I like to believe it was a sign for us that Dempsey is safe and where he is meant to be, waiting until we are reunited.

 

Hugs to everyone here who has lost their pups.....

 

Heather

[Rustyroo]

I wish I could vote, that means Rusty would have been with us longer. We didn't even know he had cancer until last week when his leg broke. I was not going to amputate at his age of 13 1/2. That would not have been fair to him. So we knew for less than an hour before we let him go.

[Guest mrs]

Yep, definitely need an under 1 month category to vote for. My very special Gem was diagnosed just after the first of the year three years ago and I had her PTS about three weeks later (on my birthday). Even with aggressive pain management, she deteriorated so quickly. She was 12 when she passed. What a horrible, horrible disease!

[RobinM]

Trying to figure out how to modify poll with the option of less than 3 months. I'm scard to see that results of that.

 

I am at work and will try to modify.

 

[Guest HappyHarleysMom]

Even given what I watched Wag go through, I am hesitant to say what I'd do if it happens again. One of those, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

The one thing I remember the specialist telling me about Wag, and the probability of the osteo spreading to his lungs - she told me that if I chose amputation, there was no guarantee that it hadn't already spread to the lung. She also told me that after healing from the surgery, I was only buying him months - 18 on the upside, 1 or less on the downside. It was a gamble because of the issue of whether it had spread or not. Even with all that aside, Wag's pain level was heartbreaking - the wailing. That was really my big issue.

 

So, even though I get upset that Wag was diagnosed with arthritis for many months when it was in fact cancer, and even though I live with guilt of did I do everything right: When I put myself through memory rehashing as I occasionally do, I still tend to go the route of saying no to amputation.

 

I would want to hear of a better prognosis than what I was given with Wag. He had intense pain. Then, he would have had pain from amputation. Then, he could have still been in more pain if the cancer had spread after all. I decided to end the pain rather than risk more pain in exchange for no time bought.

 

As I write this, it makes me wonder why I still feel guilty sometimes, even when I wouldn't have done anything different.

[Tracey]

I always thought about this hypothetically until last week. With Cosmo I always thought she would not be a good candidate for amputation because she was poorly socialized early on (I wouldn't go so far as to label her a spook, but she did not know or trust humans when we brought her home. She has blossomed outside of the house, but remained somewhat skittish at home). Every time we have to do something with her, even cut her nails, she always acts like this is the time she always knew would come when we would finally decide to eat her.

 

Anyway, through all the tests, blood drawing, xrays, fine needle aspirate etc. she's been scared, but as soon as she's finished she's bounced back every time. She has proved to be far more resilient than I thought. I'm sure the McDonald's therapy doesn't hurt, either.

 

I realize I am way too close to the situation now so I won't take anything personally, but as to the question of whether we're keeping her here for us or for her, it is, unequivocally, for her. Cosmo is only 7, she is vital and happy and full of life. I have thought this through and I know this sounds ridiculous, but if we had to send Cosmo away and never see her again just to give her a shot at living out the rest of her natural life, I would do it in a heartbeat. Of course I still want her here with us but because Cosmo had such a tough beginning (including surviving a fire at the adoption kennel) I do not feel it is fair to give up on her now. I recognize this may be a longshot but I am willing to take the rotten odds just to give her a chance. She has too much life left in her to give up on her now.

[Guest PhillyPups]

Apparently when taken out of context this hit too close to home for some ~

Personally for me, in dealing with osteo, amp is not an option - SugarBear's breeder taught me to ask myself, "am I keeping her alive for me or for her".

 

GoD bless all traveling this journey - no matter how much support we have, it is a very personal and painful decision. Cancer sukks and robs us of too many too soon.

 

SugarBear was 14.5 years, as said, it is a very personal and painful decision

 

This is exactly why I wanted to stay out of here

[greyhoundlov]

I didn't vote. We didn't know China had osteo until she screamed because I touched her leg up high by her chest. In less than about 2 hours, we let her go.

[Guest twilliams]

Thank you for posting this. I know this is a sensitive subject but I feel it is important and informative. I really hope everyone who has experience with osteo will vote and post their comments.

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

There is a technical issue with the poll. You get an error if you don't select an option in part 2.

 

As others have said, this is a very personal decision. Truth be told, I was against amputation with Morgan. He was DH's boy and DH wanted it. And then Morgan got 3 years after his amputation. The first 2 years were high quality. The last year was not quality because of increasing LS problems. He was 13 1/2 at the end.

 

With Alex, we found lung mets after his 3rd chemo. It was approx. 4 months between amputation and euthanasia and none of it was quality time.

 

If faced with the decision again, I don't know what I'd select. I've had the 2 extreme outcomes. The stats are 12-14 month median survival for chemo and amputation. I know it's anecdotal but from watching the stores unfold here, it doesn't seem to match the stats that are quoted. It seems like a few dogs get really long times and most are way short of the 1 year stat. I'd believe the stats if they were averages but they are suppose to be medians.

[Guest HappyHarleysMom]

Thank you for this thread. This is a personal decision, and every situation is different.

 

As painful as it is chatting about it, I appreciate hearing about others' experiences with this horrible disease, so thanks everyone for sharing.

[Guest Sassifrass]

Won't let me vote either.

Andy developed a cyst on this front leg and when xrayed showed advanced osteo. He never limped or showed any pain, but the specialist we consulted said that a break was only a matter of time. We said goodbye that day. I was not going to risk a break.

 

Faye was diagnosed with osteo in her pelvis in September. We did pain management and she did well until, very suddenly, in the beginning of December she could no longer walk. There was no alternative but to say goodbye.

 

This is so sad.

[Guest jettcricket]

Won't let me vote either.

Andy developed a cyst on this front leg and when xrayed showed advanced osteo. He never limped or showed any pain, but the specialist we consulted said that a break was only a matter of time. We said goodbye that day. I was not going to risk a break.

 

Faye was diagnosed with osteo in her pelvis in September. We did pain management and she did well until, very suddenly, in the beginning of December she could no longer walk. There was no alternative but to say goodbye.

 

This is so sad.

 

...yes, it is. After losing Chance, I prayed that none of my dogs would ever have to deal with this again.

 

It's a very lonely, painful sad road to travel down.

 

[ahicks51]

I don't think Dr. Stack (a greyhound-savvy vet in Yuma, AZ) would mind if I reprint this here. It came across the greyhound mailing list a year and a half ago.

 

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:37:12 -0700

From: Don and Suzanne Stack <email deleted>

Subject: MEDICAL: Tips from osteo survivor

 

<< Anyone out there have a long term cancer survivor, a year or more?

Could you please forward what treatments, feeding, medicines you did

that you feel might have helped your dog become a survivor. >>

 

 

My greyhound, Aussie, now 9 years old, is > 4 years post amputation

(Oct 23, 2003). His protocol:

 

Took x-rays just a few days after noticed him limping. Saw what looked

like osteo at proximal humerus (left shoulder). Did not waste precious

time with a biopsy - amputated the very next day.

 

Started chemo exactly 1 week post-amputation - the day we got biopsy

results back from the lab (we sent in the amputated limb for biopsy).

 

Aussie had 6 carboplatin chemo treatments. No problems except a low

WBC delayed the 6th chemo by 1 week.

 

He's taken 3.75 mg meloxicam (generic Metacam) ever since amputation

because he's got a bad arthritic hock in backleg on same side.

 

1 year post-amputation, I started him on 10 mg tamoxifen once daily.

Tamoxifen is the anti-estrogen drug that breast cancer survivors take

for the rest of their lives. Anecdotally, tamoxifen may be an

anti-angiogenesis drug (a drug that stops new blood vessels from

branching out from tumors). Tamoxifen can have some problems in girl

dogs but is OK for boys. Not approved nor or you likely to be able to

find out much of anything about it. I just started Aus on it because a

friend's boy osteo grey was started on it by Dr. Ogilvie (ex CSU

oncology guru). I figured if it's good enough for Dr. Ogilvie, it's

good enough for me.

 

Aus eats the same food as the rest of my dogs, "Enhance Hunter's Edge"

by ARKAT. We feed it because it's relatively cheap (we have lots of

big dogs) and does a greyt job keeping weight on my greyhounds with

once daily feeding. Relatively high in protein, fat, and calories.

Protein 24%, fat 18%, ~585 calories/cup. Aus doesn't get any

supplements or special treatment and is very fit (we live on 2 & 1/2

acres).

 

Suzanne Stack, DVM

[Guest RynnAndLyra]

I didn't vote - we are right in the middle with Sterling. Diagnosed Memorial Day weekend. Amputation on May 28th. This Friday we get the X rays to make sure his lungs are clear before we proceed with chemo.

 

He was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma.

 

I was one of those that thought I could never amputate a dog's leg. I can honestly say it was the right decision. Sterling's hind leg had become useless by the time of the surgery and I'm sure - painful. He is now pain free and is doing so well I can hardly believe it.

 

Was it worth all he went through with the surgery and recovery?? I think so. I think I see a smile on his face now.

 

I hope we are in the lucky group and he will be one of those dogs who has years instead of months. We still have hope.