When Is It Time...

[Guest lauri]

I know this question is asked too often but when do you know it's time to 'let go'?

 

Miles was 42lbs. his last appointment last Monday- 30 lbs. underweight. He's on the new drug, Tylan powder, and I'm to give him B12 shots every Monday for another month.

 

He's eating but doesn't seem to be doing any better. He's having problems every once in a while getting up from his bed and not being able to get a grip on the floor. I just noticed last night his eyes are sunken into his head as he has lost so much muscle. NOTHING to him anymore but bones and skin. Diarrhea hasn't improved much at all.

 

His tummy seems to be filling out some and I realize that muscle will be the last to gain, but this is just killing my husband and I, seeing Miles look so horrible, and we've been doing what we can to help him. He's supposed to be on the Tylan twice daily for a month and then once a day after that. I'm afraid we won't even make it that far!

 

He does get excited about yummy foods and car rides. He greeted a magazine sales girl at the door yesterday. He gets happy to see his grama. He does still get that gleam in his eyes, but is less and less.

 

But other than that he just lays there looking limp and sad. He's not the same boy he was a few months ago. Hardly any joy left, but that little ray of hope when he does get happy about something!

 

No sleeping or snuggling with us on the bed or sofa.

 

No greeting us at the door.

 

No more interaction except to eat or take meds.

 

I really don't know how long to wait this out; hopeful that eventually the meds will work and hopeful that we'll have our boy back.

 

But I really want to know...

Will I know?

Edited October 7, 2008 by lauri

[Guest adriahna]

I'm so sorry, Lauri.

 

Keep a close eye on him, to be frank. I haven't read through the information about your boy's condition, but it sounds so much like my Desiree - we thought she had IBS, but it ended up being cancer... my sweetheart noticed that, despite her weight loss, her belly was distended - that's where the tumor was. I took her in the next morning, and she was diagnosed... took her home, and we spent the day and that night with her, loving her like crazy - then let her go the next morning. She was ready to pass away - I can't explain it, but there was a sense of calm she displayed. I should have listened to her with more attention all along - she had been having some difficulty with pain in getting up, and her diarrhea was not getting any better.

 

I think, based admittedly only on the experience of letting her go, you just have to be very aware of their body language, and if they are showing any sort of enthusiasm for life. I know that they calm down as old age sets in, but when there is no joy to life, and the medicine isn't helping, that's the time to start paying very close attention. Especially if there is pain present. I know it's a hard call, and it stinks feeling like you're playing God's role - but it's so important that you allow your loved one a sense of joy and dignity. And it's VERY important to know that very few dogs pass away naturally, without pain - it is up to us, to give them the gift of a painless passing.

 

Talk to your vet about this, too - they may have some input, as to how long it typically takes for the medicine to work/bring Miles back to his old self. But the main thing is to keep Miles' needs in mind - you know him better than anyone else.

 

I'm so sorry you're facing this, and I hope I've helped... in these situations, I always feel like I'm rambling, as it's such an intensely personal matter. But having been through this, I had to chime in, with my experience. I'm sure you'll have plenty of responses.

 

Many hugs to you, and warm, healing thoughts for your Miles.

[ahicks51]

I sent you a PM, but to anyone else who might be reading this:

 

For seven months I struggled with protein-losing enteropathy, dropping a pound a week like clockwork. Once I found the solution (and informed my gastroenterologist that not only would I not be taking the nasty tumor necrosis factor inhibitors he wanted me on, but that I was ditching every other medication he prescribed for me), the weight came back at a pound per week. Now, 9 months later, I'm doing hour-long, high-intensity workouts (plus abdominal exercises three times a week- something that is supposedly impossible with this malady).

 

Protein and fat is where it's at- feed the boy well, and hope the damage can be un-done!

[Bevd]

Lauri - we are in virtually the same position as you, with Wallace. He is probably around the same sort of weight now as Miles and he too looks dreadful. He has the sunken eyes that you describe too. Wallace was diagnosed with a brain tumour a couple of months ago and he also has a problem with a couple of discs in his neck. He has muscle tremors which we did get under control with Tramadol when he first went onto it byt now, even though he is having 6 tramadol tabs a day (300 mg in total), the tremors are back. Nobody knows if the tremors are tumour related or neck pain related. He's seen vets, specialists, had an MRI scan (tumour is inoperable and even a biopsy isn't possible due to its location).

 

He does eat now (thanks to Jillysfullhouse and her gift of Nutritional Yeast) but he's not gaining weight. He's still losing it in reality.

 

I was talking to the vet the other day and we've decided to add in 75mg of Rimadyl daily, plus we have Gabapentin on order so he'll be starting that this week too.

 

Other than that, there's nowhere else to go.

 

Wallace still wants to go for a walk, even though he can't walk as far as he used to and he still loves to get treats and yesterday he picked up a stuffie for the first time in ages, so I don't feel that we are 'there' yet.

 

This post hasn't given you the answers you're looking for but I just wanted to let you know that we understand

[Fiona3]

Lauri, this is the most difficult decision to try to make because you always second-guess yourself. Your heart and your head tell you different things.

 

Hobbes had been severely ill from August 2007 after some sort of neurological event (stroke?). Weight loss, trouble walking, knuckling. We were told he had only a short time so every day became watch and wait. While he was never able to go for walks again, he could ramble around our yard, slowly gained some weight back by feeding him 4-5 times a day and spent the next 8 months in various stages of incontinence that required loads of washing every day. We decided it was worth everything as long as he wasn't in pain, could get himself up to walk outside, had an appetite and seemed happy. And he was very content and happy until the end. He had been diagnosed with spinal cancer in late March and on his last day he lost control of his back legs. He couldn't stand, he was frightened, and he looked miserable. We knew it was time, that we didn't want to see him in pain or suffering. We knew that we had done everything we possibly could to care for him but it had been taken from our hands.

 

I guess for us that was the deciding point - that his medical condition has progressed beyond help and that he was miserable and scared and probably in some pain. Every situation is different. Every dog or cherished pet is different. I worried if I would know when it was time with Hobbes (and I dearly did not want to let him go). But suddenly I realized - it was best for him.

 

I don't know if this has helped at all. My thoughts will be with everyone who is facing this decision.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Fiona3

[Guest monasmom]

Hi Lauri,

I had to make this decision in June for my little Peanut mutt. She had an immune-mediated anemia that made her extremely weak and caused her much pain. She had already been getting older, but this really floored her. I was very reluctant to let her go because I felt like she had this one life, and how could I decide when it was time to take it away? I had been carrying her up and down the stairs for a while, but one morning she couldn't stand when I put her down. She just flopped down on the landing, limp, lifted her leg a little, and let her bladder go. At that moment, I knew it was time to help her pass. Even though I was sure it was time, it was still one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And sometimes I still question whether I tried long enough. I don't think she had any joy left though. She silently endured what was killing her without complaint because she was such a good dog. I was with her when she died, and the last thing she smelled was me. I take comfort in that.

 

Big hugs to you. I know how awful this is.

Laura

[Batmom]

I wish I knew the answer.

 

If he is gaining, however slowly, and does not seem to be in pain, then I would give the meds some time yet to do their work.

 

My heart goes out to you and your beloved boy.

[Guest argolola]

My heart is breaking for your precious boy and your family. Sending prayers for you all.

[Burpdog]

You asked for my opinion, so I'm going to give it

 

If he doesn't start gaining weight immediately, it's time. With that much weight loss, it's affecting all his organs

 

One of the things I look at, is with all the drugs they are on, if they still are not doing well, picture withdrawing all of them. Usually that will let you know.

 

With greys it is so hard--their desire to live is incredible. If it's time, you have to let him know it's ok to go and he doesn't need to be afraid.

 

Sending hugs and prayers.

[TheFullHouse]

It was harder for us because Emmy went blind first and then started losing all the weight so in the beginning we thought it was depression. I knew it was time when my active, happy girl just lay on her bed, no tail wags, no snuggling, no cuddling. She had no quality of life what so ever, nothing compared to the hound she used to be. Even when we got her eating again she still remained our beautiful girl just laying on a bed. She had lost so much weight her eyes looked like what you describe Miles as looking like. Her face didn't look the same. I knew then but Mike needed more time. Eventually she went into seizures and we definitely knew it was time.

 

I don't know if any of this helps or hurts, all I know is that when there is no quality of life left and Miles is ready, you will know.

[patricia]

I know how you are feeling and what you are going through as so many of us here do. It is such a heart rendering decision. Know that you and your sweet baby are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Guest GreysAndMoreGreys]

I know this question is asked too often but when do you know it's time to 'let go'?

 

Miles was 42lbs. his last appointment last Monday- 30 lbs. underweight. He's on the new drug, Tylan powder, and I'm to give him B12 shots every Monday for another month.

 

He's eating but doesn't seem to be doing any better. He's having problems every once in a while getting up from his bed and not being able to get a grip on the floor. I just noticed last night his eyes are sunken into his head as he has lost so much muscle. NOTHING to him anymore but bones and skin. Diarrhea hasn't improved much at all.

 

His tummy seems to be filling out some and I realize that muscle will be the last to gain, but this is just killing my husband and I, seeing Miles look so horrible, and we've been doing what we can to help him. He's supposed to be on the Tylan twice daily for a month and then once a day after that. I'm afraid we won't even make it that far!

 

A few things to touch on. As you said he's lost a bunch of weight, which also means he's weak, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with not being able to grip the floor well.

His energy lvls are going to be much lower as his system has been depleted and it takes a while for them to build back up.

 

If he's eating again and keeping things down and he's excited to be eating those are all good things.

You guys have come this far and it does seem like it's getting better but it will take him time to gain all that weight back and get his energy lvls back.

 

I really don't have the answer as to when is it time. It's different for each person and each dog. It's up to the humans to listen to their dog and then take whatever action.

 

Your situation is a bit different from any I have had to deal with. All my dogs that have past all had cancer. I knew what the issues and problems were, I knew what to expect and what was to come.

When not knowing what the issue and problems are is much tougher to judge. it's the unknown that is hard.

 

So just for you all and know we are all here to read and listen and support whenever you need us to be.

[CaliforniaGreys]

You and Miles have been through so much! My heart truly goes out to you. You have such a connection with Miles so whatever you decide to do, you will have his best interest in your heart. You're in our prayers to give you the strength during this time

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Miles situation sounds similar to Morgan's. We thought he had IBD too and tried many things including Tylan powder and B12 shots. He was down to 45 lbs. (but he only has 3 legs). He had a crisis one week-end of vomiting and diarhea. We took him off every medication. A few days later, he started to eat again. His back-end was shaky and we have suspected LS. Morgan doesn't tolerate opiate pain meds so we put him back on Gabapentin (Neurotin). That seemed to help. That was this summer and he's now 52 lbs. He's still having trouble with LS despite a Depo shot but he's maintaining his 52 lbs.

[Guest Carla]

Sadly, I think Miles is letting you know it is time. Please give him a gentle hug from me.

 

Hugs,

 

Carla

[MerlinsMum]

Lauri :grouphug

 

I've never had to make this decision, so I can't draw from experience... I'd just say if he mostly has no quality of life anymore, it's time to let go.

 

Sending many hugs. You're in my thoughts.

[Guest LoveSeniorGreys]

I read your story with many tears in my eyes.....I have been there and wished someone would have listened to me and said what they were really thinking "be brave and let him go".

[HJsM]

I wish I knew the answer.

 

If he is gaining, however slowly, and does not seem to be in pain, then I would give the meds some time yet to do their work.

 

My heart goes out to you and your beloved boy.

 

What I would have answered.

 

PLUS, can he still take care of daily functions? Pottying on his own? Going to the food bowl on his own (in other words, you don't have to put a syringe or spoon down his throat)? Sleeping fairly decently?

 

There's also the "three things" thought. Are there still at least three things he likes to do? That thought has always made some sense to me.

 

Wish you all the best. I know how frustrating and sad and helpless it makes you feel when they are sick.

[Guest Greensleeves]

There's also the "three things" thought. Are there still at least three things he likes to do? That thought has always made some sense to me.

 

There's *definitely* something to this. We had to make this decision for Nelly yesterday, and although we had so much more in *us* to do whatever was needed, we had reached the end of medicine's power to help her. For us it was a combination of two factors: medical symptoms that she could not come back from (the inability to walk or stand on her own, the neurological damage from kidney disease, etc), and the fact that her disease slowly stripped away all her joys--first her appetite, then her ability to go on walks, and finally her desire to cuddle and her ability to sleep peacefully. When we realized she had not wagged her tail in three days, it made the decision that much clearer. It's definitely so much harder, though, when you don't have advanced age as a factor to help weigh the balance.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Greensleeves

[Guest luckydog]

I read your story with many tears in my eyes.....I have been there and wished someone would have listened to me and said what they were really thinking "be brave and let him go".

 

Amen to this. Too many times we are in denial and allow our dear pets to linger too long because of *our* fear of death.

 

So, I say with much love, that it *is* time.

[Plymgreys]

All I know is I got it wrong. I should have let Bobby go sooner than I did and I will never, ever forgive myself for that. I just hope that, if I'm in that situation again, I'll get it right. Part of the reason I got it wrong was conflicting opinion from 3 different vets at the same practice. And I was alone, OH was overseas but due back in a couple of days so I chickened out of making the decision hoping Bobby would hang on til OH was home. I put our needs above Bobby's and he died alone at the vets. I'm so sorry Bobby.

[4greyhounds]

Lauri! :grouphug

 

I am sorry I don't know how or when to tell you it is time, we lost our Champ too FAST! He had a tumor that burst in his stomach and he had just gotten his teeth cleaned and a greyt bill of Health! I was begging the vet to do all they could up until the end when I called the director of the group I got him from and he was my star. He told me you have to let go their is nothing more than can be done. I am just so sorry you are going through this and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

[Guest SueG201]

If they no longer want to go for walks, eat with vigor, or play then it is time. With my three

I lost I could see it in their eyes, they were trying to tell me they were ready to be pain free.

I waited too long with my first greyhound who died of osteo at age 5, I could not let her go,

with the other two I knew what I had to do, as painful as it was, I did not want to see them

suffer at all. My heartfelt prayers are with you as you make this difficult decison

[Guest HeatherDemps]

I'm sorry that you and your hound are in this situation... it's never easy and it's so hard not to second guess as we go along this path.

 

In my situation, everything happened quickly, so there wasn't a slow progression (well, not that I noticed). I came home from work to find Dempsey having trouble standing up on his own and it progressed quickly to not being able to stand at all to not being able to move his back legs. Xrays showed nothing obvious but the problem was in his spine. We could have tried steroids but there was no guarentee that they would help and it would take at least a couple of days in ICU to see if they were working. When I thought of letting Dempsey go that night, I felt peace and calmness come over me and then when I thought about trying the steroids, I felt a sense of panic and knew that it wouldn't be right for him. It is the hardest, hardest thing I have ever done because there is nothing "natural" about it...

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one else can tell you when it's time, you know your hound the best and you will know when it's time to say goodbye. Wish I could be of more help. Hugs to you....

 

Heather

[Guest Cris_M]

 

Everyone's comments have validity. However, you have a relationship with Miles that none of us does. That relationship allows you to know when and if it is time to say goodbye to him.

 

Things that matter immensely to one dog may matter very little to another. For Gabriel, it was leaking a bit of urine constantly that disturbed him. I would have thought that incontinence, inability to walk far or at all, disinterest in food, etc. would have been the turning point. None of those things took away from his enjoyment of life -- but the constant dripping did. As soon as I realized his discomfort -- maybe 2 hours after it started, I made the appointment. Having to say goodbye to a heart dog is awful no matter when or how it happens. I was very blessed that I listened to Gabriel and let him choose the time.

 

So, be gentle with yourself, choose to love your dog more than you love yourself in this matter, listen closely to him, and, once a decision has been made, don't second guess yourself. You'll know if Miles wants to keep fighting or needs to let go -- just trust yourself.