Local Anesthetic For A Few Staples Or No?

[Guest greyhounder]

Indy has had staples three other times all of which needed to be shaved as well.. the e-vet has never suggested a local.. My vet says the injection of lydocaine stings just as much as the quick pinches of the staples.

 

So tonight Indy ran into something outside and opened up a wound over his ribs. We went to a different e-vey we heard was good. In addition to the standard E-vet fees the vet demanded we pay $70 for a local anesthetic even after I explained that none of my hounds ever get a local for a few quick staples. I even had to talk her out of sedating him. I would have just refused and taken him to another vet but their fee was $105 for just having the vet walk in the room, so I was committed at this point. He got 4 staples and it was $300!

 

When your hounds have to get staples, does your vet inject a local?

[Guest Hannah]

I discussed local vs sedate vs general with my vet once and he said normally sedate or general for most animals simply because they wont stay still for you to easily and quickly clean and stictch the wound, they insist on watching and sticking their noses in where it isnt wanted

 

He did add that every so often he comes across a well behaved, chilled out animal that will just sit/lie/stand there and he can use local.

[Guest laceyj]

No Local for Scott, he got bit in the face at a M&G. Just a small corner tear next to his eye. They took him out back and I heard him screaming and thrashing, that was the clippers. They brought him out a couple minutes later with his staples. She said " Normally we'd like that shaved, but that just wasn't going to happen. He took the staples like a man though."

 

I think your vet is right, the injection does sting, the staples are quick and not all that painful.

[Bevd]

Sprout has been stapled a few times and Radar has once and neither of them had a local. (And they didn't even flinch). (I flinched a lot).

[Batmom]

I had a couple shots of lidocaine AFTER being sedated with Valium and Demerol, and they stung like the dickens. Not fun.

 

If all dog is getting is a couple staples, seems unnecessary. But if they have to clean/debride the wound, it's probably a good idea because that part WILL hurt for more than a second or two.

 

E-vet is always $$$$$.

[gryhndsr4us]

Gypsy got a mild sedative and local for the stitches in her head. They had to shave and clean it up also some internal stitches. Only cost $49.00. Love my Vet!

 

Edited because I can't spell this morning!

Edited December 6, 2007 by gryhndsr4us

[ZoomDoggy]

When I had some skin growths removed from Marla, they did not give her any sedative, but did give her locals before shaving and lasering off the growths and then stapling the incisions closed. She trembled due to nervousness (she had started trembling before they even touched her.), but I don't think it hurt after the local shots. She was a trooper.

[MP_the4pack]

Many lacerations are already numb from the impact. If you get to the vets early enough, they won't feel the lanocaine. Now, you might ask, 'if the lanacaine doesn't sting, then why use it for suturing?" Because, as I have stitched up my girls I have found pockets of areas not numb. When you inject lanocaine, it numbs the area around it, so that you don't end up with any spots that hurt.

I do simple suturing on my girls all the time, no one holds them. (except Brat, um I mean Opal. She's a little wiggle worm)

 

 

 

[turbotaina]

Last time Turbo had to have a suture (and it was just one stitch), they used spray lidocain.

[grey14me]

Holly's only gotten staples for one injury and she was already knocked out for it...however, when one of the drains started really bothering her and the vet took it out, he thought it would do better with just one staple in there. he asked me if it would be ok to just try it without any anasthetic and I said yes...since it was just one staple, and she is such a shaking, quivering mess at the vet anyway. what he did was have a vet tech kind of smack her on the head...not hard, but enough that Holly was looking at her and focusing on her and he did the staple and she didn't even notice. I was actually almost laughing because of her expression toward the vet tech...priceless.

 

why smack are smack you smack doing smack that smack

[ZoomDoggy]

I was actually almost laughing because of her expression toward the vet tech...priceless.

 

why smack are smack you smack doing smack that smack

 

Oh poor baby! I hope she got lots of cookies from that mean ol' tech after she was done slapping Holly around.

[Houndtime]

I have had to talk an ER vet out of of anesthesia for sutures. Last time Brandy had staples in the back of her leg, no local. Four staples, 4 seconds - done!

[grey14me]

I was actually almost laughing because of her expression toward the vet tech...priceless.

 

why smack are smack you smack doing smack that smack

 

Oh poor baby! I hope she got lots of cookies from that mean ol' tech after she was done slapping Holly around.

 

even the vet tech was a little unsure...it really was kind of comical. she says 'you want me to hit her?' and the vet had to first demonstrate how hard, so poor Holly was like, 'mommy, this is why I don't like this place!' it was actually more like

 

why smack sorry are smack sorry you smack sorry doing smack sorry that smack sorry...

[retiredracers]

I only do a local if they seem painful and don't want us to fool with it. Even then, the local stings and they often won't let us do that. Staples are quick and usually pretty easy to put in esp. for a small wound.

 

$300 is crazy for 4 staples!!!!

 

Indy, you need to stop hurting yourself! Elphie says "Be careful, bro!".

 

I was actually almost laughing because of her expression toward the vet tech...priceless.

 

why smack are smack you smack doing smack that smack

 

Oh poor baby! I hope she got lots of cookies from that mean ol' tech after she was done slapping Holly around.

 

even the vet tech was a little unsure...it really was kind of comical. she says 'you want me to hit her?' and the vet had to first demonstrate how hard, so poor Holly was like, 'mommy, this is why I don't like this place!' it was actually more like

 

why smack sorry are smack sorry you smack sorry doing smack sorry that smack sorry...

 

 

We do this all of the time with cats, esp. It distracts them so that the vet can get done what they need to get done. I do hope that Holly received some extra special treats for her smackings!

[grey14me]

She got lots of treats and extra loving! She was just so happy to get that drain out of there!!

[Guest TinasTroops]

I ran into the same situation at the Evet one time, The were very pushy in saying Tilt needed a local - I was VERY firm with them and stated he WAS NOT to have a local and to just place the staples I wanted where I wanted.

 

Not so much as a flintch out of him.

[Guest greyhounder]

GRR! This makes me SO angry! The E-vet is already so expensive without them pushing unnecessary stuff on you.. When I told the vet he didn't need a local she said she wouldn't staple him without it. And like I said, I was already in for $105.00 for her walking in the room so.. what could I say? It did need to be shaved but when she was inspecting the wound while still in the room he stood there like a very good boy and didn't move a muscle.

 

I think I am going to call today and voice my displeasure at this and tell them they have lost a customer! With three greyhounds, there's always a couple trips to the e-Vet for this and that throughout the year.

Edited December 6, 2007 by greyhounder

[Guest SusanP]

Staples never seem to bother my hounds at all, and our vet doesn't use a local or topical for them unless something unusual needs to be done, like extra cleaning, especially if I waited too long to bring them in, etc...

[Guest sheila]

I'm with you. Kiowa has had staples 2 different times for wounds that had been left open for drainage but then either spread or the skin around the area died and had to be sloughed away. He never needed a local for this procedure.

I agree with calling the e-vet and voicing your opinion and telling them they have lost a client. It's one thing to recommend a treatment and let a client decide, but another to DEMAND that treatment or refuse the service. I wouldn't tolerate that from anyone.

[feemandvm]

I'm with you. Kiowa has had staples 2 different times for wounds that had been left open for drainage but then either spread or the skin around the area died and had to be sloughed away. He never needed a local for this procedure.

I agree with calling the e-vet and voicing your opinion and telling them they have lost a client. It's one thing to recommend a treatment and let a client decide, but another to DEMAND that treatment or refuse the service. I wouldn't tolerate that from anyone.

 

Just because the dog doesn't scream doesn't mean it doesn't hurt! While staples do not result in uncontrollable pain... they do hurt. I would challenge every poster on here that declines any sedation or local for staples to 1st get the same number of staples themselves. If you can take 4 staples in the hand or leg and tell me it doesn't hurt, then I guess you can continue to get staples without sedation or a local. On the other hand, if you tell me that it actually hurts and you would prefer not to be stapled again then you will see why this vet recommended or demanded at least a local. As for the argument of the local causing as much pain as the staples/sutures... I would disagree. If you use bicarbonate to neutralize the pH of the lidocaine, it takes 90% of the bite out of the lidocaine.

 

To me the argument of "he doesn't appear to be in pain" is why an animal's pain with MANY procedures was ignored for so long. We know physiologically that they feel pain by the same pathways that we do. Instinctually animals will try to hide pain and typically will tough out much more than we do but that doesn't mean that they are not in pain. Recently there was a vet in there 60s or 70s that lost their license because the vet did not provide appropriate pain relief to a dog after performing back surgery. What was his defense? "The dog didn't appear to be in pain". He lost his license b/c he failed to show how a slipped disc and the surgery to repair it could NOT result in signficant pain.

 

I think preventing/controlling pain is one of the most important things a vet can do so sorry if I rambled a bit... just kind of a soap box issue.

 

 

 

 

 

[krissn333]

Have done both. Took Fritz in once for a small laceration on the outside of his toe...doc decided to give it a couple of sutures. First he used the lidocaine...which burned like hell and made Fritz SCREAM like the dickens because it had to be injected in several spots to get appropriate numbing, and he was still upset about having his toe sutured. After that healed and then came open again, we opted to skip the lidocaine and just suture. He just laid there on the table for that. I think the lido burned.

 

Ace nipped him once in the neck/shoulder area and I stapled him myself, shaved the area slightly and just did it...it was about 6 staples. He just laid there, didn't even flinch.

 

I think it really depends on where the area is that needs to be stapled/sutured. In the case of Fritz's neck/shoulder, there's a good amount of extra skin there so it wasn't really a pulling feeling for him. If it was in a tighter spot or somewhere on the head I think I'd opt for some numbing, especially if they have to do any shaving &/or debridement first.

 

If Ace is injured you'd better be sedating her because she gets upset real quick. She tore the webbing between her toes and had to be sedated with acepromazine and something else just so they could get a good look at it. Over the summer Fritz tore a HUGE hole in his webbing and let me manipulate his toes, pull them apart, and inspect the wound before deciding to take him in. At the vet I think we numbed him but I don't remember for sure. He just laid there again though and let doc work on him.

[Guest alannamac]

Just because the dog doesn't scream doesn't mean it doesn't hurt! While staples do not result in uncontrollable pain... they do hurt. I would challenge every poster on here that declines any sedation or local for staples to 1st get the same number of staples themselves. If you can take 4 staples in the hand or leg and tell me it doesn't hurt, then I guess you can continue to get staples without sedation or a local. On the other hand, if you tell me that it actually hurts and you would prefer not to be stapled again then you will see why this vet recommended or demanded at least a local. As for the argument of the local causing as much pain as the staples/sutures... I would disagree. If you use bicarbonate to neutralize the pH of the lidocaine, it takes 90% of the bite out of the lidocaine.

 

To me the argument of "he doesn't appear to be in pain" is why an animal's pain with MANY procedures was ignored for so long. We know physiologically that they feel pain by the same pathways that we do. Instinctually animals will try to hide pain and typically will tough out much more than we do but that doesn't mean that they are not in pain. Recently there was a vet in there 60s or 70s that lost their license because the vet did not provide appropriate pain relief to a dog after performing back surgery. What was his defense? "The dog didn't appear to be in pain". He lost his license b/c he failed to show how a slipped disc and the surgery to repair it could NOT result in signficant pain.

 

I think preventing/controlling pain is one of the most important things a vet can do so sorry if I rambled a bit... just kind of a soap box issue.

 

Gotta' second this opinion. I always consider what I would want for me. Bandit's neurological response is no different than mine as far as I know. I do see how the pain of one staple could be equated to the pain of an injection, and yes lidocane stings like heck, but when you're talking about multiple staples? a local makes a lot of sense....as does a mild sedative for relaxation, and an anti-inflammatory for the "owies" later when the area is bumped or stretched.

Sure we could all save money on our medical bills if we refused meds for moderately painful but quick procedures....but not many of us choose to do so.....why subject our dogs?

 

 

Edited December 8, 2007 by alannamac

[Guest sheila]

I'm with you. Kiowa has had staples 2 different times for wounds that had been left open for drainage but then either spread or the skin around the area died and had to be sloughed away. He never needed a local for this procedure.

I agree with calling the e-vet and voicing your opinion and telling them they have lost a client. It's one thing to recommend a treatment and let a client decide, but another to DEMAND that treatment or refuse the service. I wouldn't tolerate that from anyone.

 

Just because the dog doesn't scream doesn't mean it doesn't hurt! While staples do not result in uncontrollable pain... they do hurt. I would challenge every poster on here that declines any sedation or local for staples to 1st get the same number of staples themselves. If you can take 4 staples in the hand or leg and tell me it doesn't hurt, then I guess you can continue to get staples without sedation or a local. On the other hand, if you tell me that it actually hurts and you would prefer not to be stapled again then you will see why this vet recommended or demanded at least a local. As for the argument of the local causing as much pain as the staples/sutures... I would disagree. If you use bicarbonate to neutralize the pH of the lidocaine, it takes 90% of the bite out of the lidocaine.

 

To me the argument of "he doesn't appear to be in pain" is why an animal's pain with MANY procedures was ignored for so long. We know physiologically that they feel pain by the same pathways that we do. Instinctually animals will try to hide pain and typically will tough out much more than we do but that doesn't mean that they are not in pain. Recently there was a vet in there 60s or 70s that lost their license because the vet did not provide appropriate pain relief to a dog after performing back surgery. What was his defense? "The dog didn't appear to be in pain". He lost his license b/c he failed to show how a slipped disc and the surgery to repair it could NOT result in signficant pain.

 

I think preventing/controlling pain is one of the most important things a vet can do so sorry if I rambled a bit... just kind of a soap box issue.

 

 

 

 

 

If we were talking about a large number of stitches or staples that would be one thing. But for just a couple I don't see the need. Just for the record I did once have 4 stitches in my hand and no local. Yeah it pinched a little but my hand already hurt and the stitches going in didn't make it hurt any more than it already did. I refused the local because of a previous experience when I had to get just 2 stitches in a finger and the Dr injected a local into the wound. Now THAT hurt!

[MP_the4pack]

I'm with you. Kiowa has had staples 2 different times for wounds that had been left open for drainage but then either spread or the skin around the area died and had to be sloughed away. He never needed a local for this procedure.

I agree with calling the e-vet and voicing your opinion and telling them they have lost a client. It's one thing to recommend a treatment and let a client decide, but another to DEMAND that treatment or refuse the service. I wouldn't tolerate that from anyone.

 

Just because the dog doesn't scream doesn't mean it doesn't hurt! While staples do not result in uncontrollable pain... they do hurt. I would challenge every poster on here that declines any sedation or local for staples to 1st get the same number of staples themselves. If you can take 4 staples in the hand or leg and tell me it doesn't hurt, then I guess you can continue to get staples without sedation or a local. On the other hand, if you tell me that it actually hurts and you would prefer not to be stapled again then you will see why this vet recommended or demanded at least a local. As for the argument of the local causing as much pain as the staples/sutures... I would disagree. If you use bicarbonate to neutralize the pH of the lidocaine, it takes 90% of the bite out of the lidocaine.

 

To me the argument of "he doesn't appear to be in pain" is why an animal's pain with MANY procedures was ignored for so long. We know physiologically that they feel pain by the same pathways that we do. Instinctually animals will try to hide pain and typically will tough out much more than we do but that doesn't mean that they are not in pain. Recently there was a vet in there 60s or 70s that lost their license because the vet did not provide appropriate pain relief to a dog after performing back surgery. What was his defense? "The dog didn't appear to be in pain". He lost his license b/c he failed to show how a slipped disc and the surgery to repair it could NOT result in signficant pain.

 

I think preventing/controlling pain is one of the most important things a vet can do so sorry if I rambled a bit... just kind of a soap box issue.

 

 

I agree with this and there is also another point to think about. Yes, the initial sting of lidocaine can be equated to a staple, but once it's done, the area is numb and pain free, whereas if you staple without the anesthestic, the pain of stapling remains as does the pain of the wound.

At least for several hours the area is pain free with the anesthetic.

 

 

 

 

[Sighthounds4me]

Last fall, when I had a facial laceration, I had to be sutured. I can tell you that the lidocaine stings like MAD, but the numb feeling really does make a difference with sutures. There was one spot where the PA did not get enough lidocaine, and lemme tell ya, the suturing definitely hurts! (to the PA's credit, he did ask if I wanted more lidocaine, after he saw me jump. He said I only need two more sutures, so I said, "JUST GO!")

 

BUT, mine were sutures, not staples, so that makes a difference. I know staples typically are less painful, since they are so quick...