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The thread about the raised feeders and all the comments about Bloat has me wondering just how common this is in Greyhounds. I don't know anyone with a greyhound that has had it bloat. Rainy always wants to do zoomies after dinner, and I make her wait because I hear the horror stories .... but - are they actually true?

 

I can't remember reading here about hounds ACTUALLY bloating ..... so how much of a problem is this really?

 

Who has owned a greyhound that has bloated - and was it due to running around after dinner?

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CORY and CRICKET - Solitary Tremble & CASPER - Pj's Mia Farrow
* With CAPT. GUS - Solitary Trigger, RAINY - Peach Rain, PUP - Red Zepher, DOC - CTW Fort Sumpter
and MAX - Shiowa's Silver Maxamillion / Afghan .... all waiting at the bridge

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Guest KennelMom

No bloat here. Some of our hounds do post-dinner zoomies in the yard. I don't let them go crazy, but I'm not overly-anal about it either. We do limit things like long walks, playgroups or stressful events (i.e. vet trip) to an hour or two before/after meals. I think there's a strong genetic component to bloat.

 

In the time I've been on GT I think I've read of one greyhound bloating.

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Guest lat41065

Same here. I have asked numerous kennel personel the "bloat questions" over the years and no one has seen it. They do not feed raised at the kennels.

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If you do a search in the food section, you will find many, many threads.

 

Since my Great Dane bloated in 1970, I have used raised feeders at my vet's suggestion. I stopped feeding a food with soy. She never bloated again and for 20+ years was the only Dane that had bloated only once that I knew of. Since then there have been a few.

 

The Purdue study is skewed in my opinion because they used show dogs--high stress and almost all are fed from raised feeders (helps not breaking down the pasterns).

 

The second Dane of mine bloated on 1/4 can of pedigree dog food. She was in a medical crisis from her Addison's and a trip from FL to TX. I sent her to the bridge the day after I got here.

 

Burp bloated after being kenneled for a week while I was on vacation. They gave him 1/2 his heart medicine. In addition he appeared to have been bitten by spiders (a very gross story about his shoulder). He was tubed and came out of it. I changed nothing (food, nor feeder) and for the next 6 months did not have a recurrance.

 

Stress seems to contribute to bloat. When talking to my vet, he said I could be right as he remembered a Cocker in for boarding that bloated!

 

Stress can come from many sources. Running is one, a trip to the vet, etc.

 

There have been a few NGA greys that went into bloat. I have not heard of one in years on this board.

 

AKC greys bloat more than NGA greys. They are much more deep chested.

 

Keep in mind that NGA greys are fed a combination of kibble and raw. Possibly that helps.

 

I remember talking with Sissy Harrington of Solid Gold and she told me how she went to Europe to find out about bloat (Danes were her breed) back in the 60s or 70s. They didn't know what she was talking about. They were not feeding kibble at that time--all raw diet.

 

I think if you look at the incidences of bloat in the States, you will find a huge spike after kibble was introduced and we were told feeding table scraps were a no no.

 

So, what I do:

 

No running one hour before and two hours after eating

 

Raised feeder

 

No soy products

 

No feeding right before a car ride, especially to the vet. I feed after they calm down when returning.

Diane & The Senior Gang

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Guest IrskasMom

Yes ,I have heard of it but it was a Great Dane and she was not even running or lets say active when this

happen ....as per Owner. He said , she almost died on the Way to the Vet .

Now my Morty eats and then he takes a Nap. He does this all the time. So no worries aabout that.

 

 

 

As per Diane .....this seems to happen to Great Dane's more profoundly. Would you think so Diane ????

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My Dane's sire bloated and torsed and consequently died in his kennel in the morning after breakfast. No running, no unusual stress, no unusual food. He was not in my care, but the care of my breeder who at the time did not have a kennel man and would feed his dogs, go get ready to go see patients, check on them a last time then leave. When he left, all was fine, when he got back home after office hours, the dog was dead in the kennel.

 

Like Diane said, no one REALLY knows what causes it. Gas used to be a suspect, but many who've been able to be tubed because they hadn't torsed yet didn't have gas in the stomach, just free air. air gulping and water tanking are a possibility as are food additives. heredity is a concern as well and m Dane did have GI issues although she never bloated. because of her sire, when she was spayed she did have prophylactic gastropexy and I'd do it again in a heartbeat with another dane. Bloat caught in time can be manageable, but torsion too throws another wrench in to the mix.

 

I will always feed raised. I will always throw a tennis ball or overturned bowl in to the food of a gulper to slow them down. I will never feed and leave right away -- I always make sure I'm going to be home at least two hours. Fortunately I've never had anyone who wanted to walk or run or play after dinner. I'll probably never get to have another Dane or even a grey, but any deep chested breed is a candidate for bloat, even my IG or even a doxy. My friend's Golden bloated and I never considered them a risk!

Angie, Pewter, and Storm-puppy

Forever missing Misty-Mousie (9/9/99 - 10/5/15)
Fort Wayne, Indiana

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No bloat here, either. After meal exercise with my girls usually consists of a leisurely stroll to the nearest dog bed. From what I've read, bloat is more of a problem in AKC greys.

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Marc and Myun plus Starbuck (the cat)
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Angels Honey (6/30/99-11/3/11) Nadia (5/11/99-6/4/12) Kara (6/5/99-7/17/12) Cleo (4/13/2000-4/19/2014)

Antnee (12/1/2002=2/20/17)

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The first Dane that bloated was in a stress situation as I had moved and she was in a kennel during the day instead of having free roam of the house. She was in torsion and 2 vets misdiagnosed her in 2 days. When I finally got to "good vet", I was given a 30% chance of her surviving as her kidneys had shut down. I had to help a little with surgery as there were no vet techs at night. It was a most horrible experience. There was NO bloat in any of her pedigree. I remember writing a short article for the Dane newspaper about it. Pride goeth before the fall as is said.

 

With the second Dane, bloat was in the line and with her Addison's I made the decision if she ever did bloat, I would send her off. There was a very slim chance of her making it through the surgery. When you see them fill up and look like they have swallowed a watermelon, you know there is a ton of gas in there.

 

Burp was tubed twice and there was a lot of gas. All of the vets in the clinic thought he was in torsion from the xrays. Because of Burp's extensive medical problems, I told them to tube him only--no surgery. Tubing did work fortunately. How I lifted him into my station wagon that night still amazes me.

 

I don't know how it is now, but at the time my first dane bloated, the vet told me the tie down of the stomach was not as successful in dogs as it was in cattle.

 

There are varying opinions on what causes bloat. In my opinion, it could be soy (why take the chance--it's easy to avoid?) and most definetely stress. Because my first Dane never bloated again, I feel the change in food and feeding from a raised feeder certainly helped.

 

 

Diane & The Senior Gang

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Bloat is very similiar to "colick" in horses. We always had to cool them off before feeding and watering, and no hard exercise after eating or drinking a lot of water. I'm sure there are a few horse people here and they can relate to the horrible event.

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Flying Racine 7/25/08 and Twelve Pack 12/1/2004
At the Bridge- Abenacki Icebox (Kiaba) 4/21/2002-4/1/10 and Wumps Niece (Tehya) 4/21/2002-11/26/2010
www.greyhoundwelfare.org

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I remember walking my friend's mare who was in colic. Vet said "don't let her lay down" and my friend ran next door to horse people to get a shot of something to give her. I am walking this mare and thinking "right, if she wants to lay down I am going to stop her?" :rolleyes: Fortunately I kept her walking and shot worked and she was ok. It is a frightening experience.

Diane & The Senior Gang

Burpdog Biscuits

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Sorry I spelled colic wrong, but anyway, yes it is a horrible experience in horses. There are many old wives tales for horses to give them, but walking is the best. I walked a mare that had delivered a stillborn foal, for hours! In fact we took turns for eight hours. She made it, so it was worth it. You don't want them to lay down. They will roll and twist their stomach. Unlike cows, this can not be corrected surgically. Cows have four stomachs after all!

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Flying Racine 7/25/08 and Twelve Pack 12/1/2004
At the Bridge- Abenacki Icebox (Kiaba) 4/21/2002-4/1/10 and Wumps Niece (Tehya) 4/21/2002-11/26/2010
www.greyhoundwelfare.org

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Nube bloated end of April last year :(

 

we feed raised, 2 feedings a day (3 for him after that). He eats slowly, doesn't gulp or drink a lot of water, either. He had eaten last at 6pm the evening before, no zoomies, running, nothing. Seemed fine that morning, we went for breakfast and was back home within an hour or so -- to find he had puked in his crate -- dark brown, nasty smelling (like poo) stuff (he's a poo eater so we thought it was just that). He retched up again about a 1/2 hour later, so I gave him a 1/2 cup of kibble thinking his stomach acid was going nuts on an empty stomach. He puked that up about 20 minutes later. Bruce was out mowing and I was getting concerned, he said if he puked one more time he'd take him in (we thought it was just an upset tummy). Well, he retched again so he took him, and I told him to make sure they take an Xray as soon as he gets in. He had to wait 15-20 minutes to see the doctor, and he asked for the Xray (which the DR thougth was unneccessary but humored him) -- came back in 5 minutes later saying Nube was bloating.

 

His stomach was huge, full of gas, but had not yet tortioned. If we had waited even an hour longer it would have been too late, most likely. They rushed him in for surgery and did a gastroplexy (stitched his stomach to the chest wall so if he bloats again the stomach can't twist).

 

what caused it? NO idea. Raised feeder, NO running, and not even any FOOD in him for the previous 16 hours when he bloated. I hope someday they find out why this happens, it is beyond scary!

 

just to be safe I'd continue to keep her from after dinner zoomies :)

Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Guest Tenderhearts
Stress seems to contribute to bloat. When talking to my vet, he said I could be right as he remembered a Cocker in for boarding that bloated!

 

I would tend to agree!

 

When I worked for my vet, there was a lady who occasionally boarded her two springer spaniels, both males. The one was always extremely stressed, even though they were boarded in the same kennel with their beds from home.

 

The vet came back to walk a couple of hours after everyone had been fed (this was over the weekend) and the nervous one was bloated bad! :eek Thank God he was able to save him.

 

The family did keep in touch after they moved to MO, and the same dog bloated AGAIN while boarding at a facility in MO. He also survived that episode.

 

They found other alternatives to boarding after that as he was getting up there in years, and they didn't want to risk it again.

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Guest SoulsMom

Can I be a little dumb here and ask what is the difference between bloat and twisted stomach? I had a friend whose basset died in her arms on the way to the vet from twisted stomach (again, stress we think, she'd been traveling for work). Ever since then I wouldn't let Archie play after a meal, and I never let Soul out until an hour after eating. I never know when he's gonna start the zoomies, so I just don't risk it and keep him inside . . . .

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Can I be a little dumb here and ask what is the difference between bloat and twisted stomach? I had a friend whose basset died in her arms on the way to the vet from twisted stomach (again, stress we think, she'd been traveling for work). Ever since then I wouldn't let Archie play after a meal, and I never let Soul out until an hour after eating. I never know when he's gonna start the zoomies, so I just don't risk it and keep him inside . . . .

 

not dumb at all!!!! Not a lot of people have heard of bloat (more now, it seems, than a few years ago at least! Awareness is a good thing!)

 

here's a good explanation I found:

 

"The technical name for bloat is "Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus" ("GDV"). Bloating of the stomach is often related to swallowed air (although food and fluid can also be present). It usually happens when there's an abnormal accumulation of air, fluid, and/or foam in the stomach ("gastric dilatation"). Stress can be a significant contributing factor also. Bloat can occur with or without "volvulus" (twisting). As the stomach swells, it may rotate 90° to 360°, twisting between its fixed attachments at the esophagus (food tube) and at the duodenum (the upper intestine). The twisting stomach traps air, food, and water in the stomach. The bloated stomach obstructs veins in the abdomen, leading to low blood pressure, shock, and damage to internal organs. The combined effect can quickly kill a dog."

 

so I guess "bloat" is the stomach filling with gas, and the twisting (or "volvulus" or "tortion") is what kills them, ultimately. :(

Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Can I be a little dumb here and ask what is the difference between bloat and twisted stomach? I had a friend whose basset died in her arms on the way to the vet from twisted stomach (again, stress we think, she'd been traveling for work). Ever since then I wouldn't let Archie play after a meal, and I never let Soul out until an hour after eating. I never know when he's gonna start the zoomies, so I just don't risk it and keep him inside . . . .

 

not dumb at all!!!! Not a lot of people have heard of bloat (more now, it seems, than a few years ago at least! Awareness is a good thing!)

 

here's a good explanation I found:

 

"The technical name for bloat is "Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus" ("GDV"). Bloating of the stomach is often related to swallowed air (although food and fluid can also be present). It usually happens when there's an abnormal accumulation of air, fluid, and/or foam in the stomach ("gastric dilatation"). Stress can be a significant contributing factor also. Bloat can occur with or without "volvulus" (twisting). As the stomach swells, it may rotate 90° to 360°, twisting between its fixed attachments at the esophagus (food tube) and at the duodenum (the upper intestine). The twisting stomach traps air, food, and water in the stomach. The bloated stomach obstructs veins in the abdomen, leading to low blood pressure, shock, and damage to internal organs. The combined effect can quickly kill a dog."

 

so I guess "bloat" is the stomach filling with gas, and the twisting (or "volvulus" or "tortion") is what kills them, ultimately. :(

 

Correct! :colgate unfortunately because of your first-hand experience :(

 

Bloat alone can kill them too even without the torsion. if the expansion of the stomach becomes large enough it will compress the blood vessels cutting off blood supply.

 

 

Angie, Pewter, and Storm-puppy

Forever missing Misty-Mousie (9/9/99 - 10/5/15)
Fort Wayne, Indiana

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What I don't understand is why so many people think a raised feeder helps prevent bloat when the *only* refereed study that I am aware of- the Purdue study (Canine Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus)- states quite clearly that the second-highest risk factor- after "chest depth/width ratio"- is using a raised feeder.

 

Using a raised feed bowl (yes vs. no) 2.10 110% increase in risk associated with using a raised food bowl

Coco (Maze Cocodrillo)

Minerva (Kid's Snipper)

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Apparently, water consumption can be a factor as well. It's best not to let your dog "tank up", especially if it is hot from exercise. If a dog drinks a fair bit, it should not then run. One day the senior vet in the clinic I use said that he always worries about "those guys" (meaning standard poodles) having a drink, running, in the yard, and twisting their guts.

 

In this neighbourhood, there have been three cases of bloat in the last half-dozen years: a great dane (cause unknown; he died of heart failure when they were trying to treat him), a border collie (cause unknown), and a chow (playing in the yard after dinner). (By "cause unknown", I mean I don't know it: the dane owner was barely coherent and I don't really know the border collie owner.) Only the chow survived.

 

Here is the PetPlace article on bloat: GDV.

Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13); Greys Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07), Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08)
Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17)

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Guest LynnM

I've known of one greyhound that passed from GDV. He was an active racer, previously healthy, young dog. No rhyme or reason for it- it just happened.

 

Lynn

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Guest mleg2001
What I don't understand is why so many people think a raised feeder helps prevent bloat when the *only* refereed study that I am aware of- the Purdue study (Canine Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus)- states quite clearly that the second-highest risk factor- after "chest depth/width ratio"- is using a raised feeder.

 

Using a raised feed bowl (yes vs. no) 2.10 110% increase in risk associated with using a raised food bowl

 

That is because in prior studies done elsewhere there was less incidences of bloat occuring in dogs that ate out of raised feeders, for that reason I do personally believe it is not a contribulting factor but just happened that the dogs in the Perdue study just happened to be eating from a raised feeder.

 

If Perdue study was correct as a contributing factor, I think based on the results of the raise dish feeding poll we would see a lot higher incidences of bloat here than we do, as the greater % of owners feed from raised bowels. I don't think the Perdue study looked at factors such as stress, depth of chest for the breed for example when you look at AKC greyhounds they generally have far deeper chests that hang below the elbows http://www.raingoddess.com/akc/quiz.html When I looked at other breeds that commonly bloat like rottweilers, dobermans, great danes I also noted some breeders are breeding for the overly deep chests that extend below the elbows, which could possibly explain the heritary(sp?) link

 

If the chest depth was the most common contributing factor combined with stress and the Perdue study had most of their deeper chested dogs in the raised feeder group and the less so in the off the floor group, it would make the raised feeder look like the cointributing factor though in reality it was not. I think this is the reason different studies produced different results, Studies can end up skewed if you happen to be looking at the wrong factors that cause. I did write to one of the researchers of the Perdue study to ask if they had looked at the build of the dog in the research study sending then the raingoddess link since I knew bloat was more common in AKC greyhounds and a link to the raised feeder poll here as well a pictures of other breeds showing the difference in chest depths, I never did get a response but maybe if they still have some documentation of the dogs that died in their studies like photos, they maybe able to review their stats and see if possibly build is a possible cause, which may open the doors to more research.

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Guest MorganKonaAlex

I had a non-grey (Dobie mix) bloat and the stomach did twist (tortion). No raised feeder, no running, none of the "risk" factors. IMHO the quoted risk factors are based on anedotal evidence and no good studies. 12-24 hours before she bloated, I could tell she wasn't feeling well. I'm convinced the bloat was secondary to something else. She was a few weeks short of 15 years old.

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What I don't understand is why so many people think a raised feeder helps prevent bloat when the *only* refereed study that I am aware of- the Purdue study (Canine Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus)- states quite clearly that the second-highest risk factor- after "chest depth/width ratio"- is using a raised feeder.

 

Using a raised feed bowl (yes vs. no) 2.10 110% increase in risk associated with using a raised food bowl

 

That is because in prior studies done elsewhere there was less incidences of bloat occuring in dogs that ate out of raised feeders, for that reason I do personally believe it is not a contribulting factor but just happened that the dogs in the Perdue study just happened to be eating from a raised feeder.

 

I would be interested in reading these studies. Where were they published?

 

If Perdue study was correct as a contributing factor, I think based on the results of the raise dish feeding poll we would see a lot higher incidences of bloat here than we do, as the greater % of owners feed from raised bowels. I don't think the Perdue study looked at factors such as stress, depth of chest for the breed for example when you look at AKC greyhounds they generally have far deeper chests that hang below the elbows http://www.raingoddess.com/akc/quiz.html

 

The Purdue study may be found here:

 

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/bloat.htm

 

They did, in fact, study other factors, including:

 

Age in years 1.20 20% increase in risk for each year increase in age

 

Chest depth/width ratio (1.0 to 2.4) 2.70 170% increase in risk for each unit increase in chest depth/width ratio

 

First degree relative with GDV (yes vs. no) 1.63 63% increase in risk associated with having a first degree relative with GDV

 

Speed of eating (1-10 scale) [for Large dogs only] 1.15 15% increase in risk for each unit increase in speed of eating score for large dogs

 

That is all from:

 

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/update2.htm

 

References:

 

Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS; Malathi Raghavan, DVM, MS; Tana Lee, BA. Incidence of and breed-related risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in dogs.Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 2000;216(1):40-45.

 

Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS; Malathi Raghavan, DVM, MS; Tana Lee, BA. Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 2000;217(10):1492-1499.

 

Unfortunately, Purdue studied few (if any) greyhounds specifically.

 

In the absence of a better understanding of the cause of bloat, knowing the two major environmental factors that can be changed (raised feeders and bolting of feed) would seem to make a pretty good case for 1) slowing down the rate of food intake and 2) avoiding raised feeders. But I'd love to read any studies that indicate otherwise.

Coco (Maze Cocodrillo)

Minerva (Kid's Snipper)

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IIRC, (and I did NOT re-read the above referenced link yet, I haven't read it since it first came out,) the Purdue study was done exclusively with Danes since the condition seems most prevalent in that breed. I think Echo's data was even sent to the study, but I don't remember if I enrolled her or just thought about it. We in the Dane world considered the results invalid because it seemed to pronounce that dogs fed from raised feeders bloat more often - period. Unfortunately I seem to recall that the majority of the dogs were fed from raised feeders, meaning the test group wasn't 50/50. to me/us, it was like doing a study with 15 red cars and 5 white cars and then saying red cars crash more often. Sure they do when there are more of them! um, duh?

 

I was advised by Echo's breeder to feed raised because it should make eating more comfortable and put less strain on the neck, back and legs. it should ease mobility of the food and keep them from bolting food. The rare occasions that Echo was fed from the floor she had to splay her legs out to the side to reach her dish (think baby giraffe!) putting strain on her legs and shoulders and ultimately she took up a mouth full and raised up to chew and swallow it anyhow.

Angie, Pewter, and Storm-puppy

Forever missing Misty-Mousie (9/9/99 - 10/5/15)
Fort Wayne, Indiana

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