Wendie

Glad you got a definitive diagnosis and are able to better manager his comfort!

Sending lots of good thoughts!

I saw the news in the card thread and had to rush over here. I'm so sorry for your loss

9 years ago when I got my first greyhound, I spend the months leading up to his adopting reading all sorts of dog training books and of course, every book that was published about greyhounds. He came home and turns out he walked perfectly on a leash, was scared of non-carpeted floors, had zero prey drive, and we flunked out of obedience class at 6 weeks He learned "lay down" and didn't go in rooms he didn't belong and I considered him "trained" Friday night we brought a foster (to fail) dog home and it's suddenly very apparently how very very long ago it was that I read all those dog training books. This dog is about the polar opposite of Joe. Confident where Joe is shy, "naughty" where Joe is good. Anyone care to give me some tips on how to keep him out of the kitchen? He has free roam of the rest of the house and our kitchen is smalllll. It also has two entrances and one of those is both too large for a gate and also leads to outside, so we couldn't totally block it even if we wanted. Any dogsitting dogs we've ever had here (and Daisy) just kind of took Joe's lead and steered clear (Joe is afraid of the floor, so he's never showed any interested) but the foster dog wants to hang out there and use it as a shortcut. Right now I'm using barricades to show him where he can and cannot go and a firm "Eh eh" when he passes them and guiding him out with his leash if that doesn't work. So far, it doesn't seem to be clicking but it's only been two days. So, GTers, save me a trip to the library - what are some pointers you have for me?

I'm so far behind on the boards these days, so I'm just seeing this now. I'm so sorry for the loss of your sweet Gracie :grouphug

Oh, I didn't know I'm so very sorry

Sending lots of good thoughts.

It's not nearly as likely for the tick to be able to transmit Lyme disease because of the time frames, but there is another tick disease out there that has very similar symptoms and long term effects called Anaplasmomis that can be transmitted in about 12 hours. At the clinic I work at, we see a LOT of Lyme disease on dogs on zero prevention and a lot of Anaplasmosis on dogs on Frontline.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I really appreciate it. There is not a single vet around here that will do depo injections

Joe has had problems with his rear left leg since a foot injury in September 2011. Over 2012, he started gradually declining in his overall fitness level. Running just a few laps in the yard would leave his rear legs shaking for an hour plus afterwards. We started restricting his exercise, which seemed to be a vicious circle - the more we kept him on leash, the more issues he would have if he did run. We could notice visible muscle wasting in the left flank, but he had zero issues walking or anything. In December 2012, we noticed that left leg would randomly "give out" a little when he would walk. In January, we started acupuncture. Everything was going great and he seemed to be building muscle and the leg issues all but went away. He started going for longer walks than he ever had in his life - even pulling on his leash and he's NEVER been a puller. During this time, he was taking zero prescription pain meds and was on an herb called Body Sore. In May, he took several crazy "won't listen, won't stop" laps in the yard and after that, he's been on the decline ever since. The acupuncture started having less of an effect and in June, his right leg started giving him problems too. We've been to three different vets and they all feel his symptoms and pain response are in line with L.S. He fails the Dr. Stack test (although he was doing SO much better with that up until May) and has pain from his mid back down upon applying pressure and is also painful when either rear leg is extended by the vet. We started him on gabapentin and tramadol and he seemed to be feeling better for several weeks. We quit the Body Sore since it seemed to be giving him loose stools and the gabapentin seemed to make such a huge difference for him. Then, he had an acupuncture treatment and a cold laser treatment on July 11th and since then, his symptoms have been way worse. His rear leg muscles shake when he's excited or shake upon any exertion (like a trip outside more than 2-3 minutes long) You can hear his foot scuff a little bit on the floor or pavement randomly and his leg muscles and occasionally his back shakes when urinating or defecating. His leg occasionally "gives out" for a second while he's walking - not enough for him to fall, but just to gimp a little. He really has to think and go slow on stairs, including those he is very familiar with. He's had one episode where he had difficulty getting up after laying down, but otherwise other than some shakiness, has no problem getting up and down from laying. In the house, he's still the same happy go lucky boy - roaching all the time, playing with toys, running down the hall, seeking out treats, readily hopping on the bed and the couch, and jumping up to look out the window. He never vocalizes (even though he's a drama queen who screams when his foot gets tangled in a blanket or he steps in poop ) and even when his legs seem weak after a short walk, he makes attempts to spin or run (while on his leash) so it's hard for me to connect the muscle shaking with pain, even though my vet assures me that it is He's currently on 100 mg gabapentin 2-3x a day. He was on 50 mg of Tramadol 1-2x a day (more as needed) but now I can't get him to take the tramadol - he foams at the mouth and gags until he pukes it up. He's on a lifetime dose of prednisone so NSAIDS like Rimadyl, Novox, and Metacam are out. I feel like acupuncture was working AMAZING for 5 months and now I can't help but feel like our last treatment made things worse (or maybe it was the cold laser? My acupuncture vet says the decline is not related to either since it was several days later) Joe is a high anxiety boy who hates being "manhandled" and I am not comfortable with chiropractic for him for that reason. Am I missing a piece of the puzzle? What else could I be doing for him? Should I continue with the acupuncture even though I feel like it "stopped working" after his running incident? Is there another pain med out there I should be looking at? My vet is curious about people using amantadine or hydrocodone in these types of situations and I'm curious about zeel and really anything else anyone might be aware of for pain. HELP! Even just hearing your experiences or what helped your LS dog would be very helpful.... ETA: He's also on dasuquin (glucoasamine supplement) and Fresh Factors and I have the option of starting him back on Body Sore and Hind Quarter Weakness herbs.

Gabapentin has made a huge difference with Joe's comfort level - he's been having mild issues for the past year that really flared up in January and went downhill in May and now that he's on gabapentin, he's no longer shaking or doing weird things with his bad leg. We're also doing acupuncture and have seen some positive results with that Sending you guys good thoughts!

My high anxiety boy has been receiving acupuncture since January for hind end issues. He's a nervous wreck out of the house (panting, pacing, shaking, etc) and for most acupuncture sessions, he stands there and shakes a little - which is NORMAL "clinic" behavior for him. He occasionally yelps at a needle poke but this is the same dog that will yelp because he stepped in dog poop, had a mosquito bite him, or had a blanket touch him wrong He's been less and less stressed at each session and has even laid down for 2 out of the last three sessions! She always starts out with giving him some rescue remedy and putting needles into the stress points to help him calm down, which does seem to help. If someone is telling you about their dog bleeding or constantly screaming, stay far far away from that doctor. Our experience has been NOTHING like that at all.

Iverhart is basically generic Heartgard. The Max treats tapeworms in addition to the typical (preventing heartworms, treating hookworms and roundwormds) Totally greyhound safe!

We use Nature's Miracle and Oxyclean with Scotchguard

WHAT A FREAKING DAY!!! Joe's ultrasound came back perfect. They scanned basically everything inside of him and it's all perfectly healthy, tumor or strange spot free. Even his kidneys are perfectly symmetrical. Despite being part of the plan, the vet did not do the x-rays we had planned on. He felt after studying his gait and learning about his 1.5 year history with the odd gait and weakness in the left leg that this is most definitely lumbar stenosis and with his history of bleeding issues, the sudden decline with the right leg is due to a blood clot moving somewhere on the spine. Just like my acupuncture vet said - if this was bone cancer or a spinal tumor, there is no way that it would be going on for the past 6 months without having a sharp decline or without significant limping (and lameness) on zero pain meds. While I would have really preferred that he had done the x-rays just for my peace of mind, he had already reversed Joe's mild sedation when he came back to tell me the good news about the ultrasound. He honestly felt he would have been putting Joe through something unnecessarily stressful and taking my money greedily had he done x-rays, so yeah, I guess I'll have to live with that. That and it goes back to if it is some sort of bone cancer, there isn't anything we would do than we're doing now, managing pain. Unfortunately the story doesn't end there. I drove home on such a high of the good news of a SUPER CLEAN ultrasound, was about 12 minutes into my 15 minute drive home when I realized I had forgotten Joe's file at the clinic. Turned around and got it, drove back home. So our total time from leaving the clinic to getting home was probably about 25 minutes. Went to get Joe out of the car and he was completely unconscious. Totally unresponsive. To say my heart completely stopped is an understatement. I rushed to my regular vet who is just 4 minutes down the road and thankfully, she was still there after hours. Joe woke up a little bit when we got him out of the car (carrying him into the clinic using his blanket as a stretcher) but had low respiration and was pretty unresponsive overall. We got him hooked up to an IV and finally got ahold of the vet who sedated him (which of course, had closed for the night by then) to find out what the hell he'd given him for sedation. It wasn't anything greyhound unsafe or any weird dosages, so why he was flat out from it AFTER he'd been just fine to walk out to the car is very very weird. My vet was able to give him some additional drugs to counteract the drugs he had been given at the other clinic and he perked up for a while and then fell back into his unconscious state. A second dose of another anti-sedation drug and after about half an hour, he was back on his feet again. To make a long story shorter, after a REALLY REALLY REALLY scary afternoon all around, Joe is home now, he has zero signs of any internal cancer, and since he hasn't fallen back into his sedation in the last several hours, we should be out of the woods. We now just need to do more research on LS treatment and pain medications. Thank you all sooooo much for your good thoughts!!

An update for everyone - His bloodwork came back completely normal with nothing changed from 6 months ago. Took him to my regular vet and she found his back to be very painful which in this case is good news, as it could explain the rear end weakness (better than jumping to the conclusion that something MORE is going on) and we're guessing that he wasn't showing any pain responses on Wednesday because there was a bad thunderstorm and his adrenalin was pumping big time (he's a huge thunderphobe) He hasn't been on any pain medication other than the herbs ("body sore" and "hind quarter weakness") so we're adding pain medication into his pain. The scale at the clinic does indicate he's at his lowest weight ever (which is down about 1.5 pounds, not the 2.5 pounds we thought before) so we're doing an ultrasound on Monday just to rule out something else going on. I'm trying to keep very hopeful that it's arthritis in his back and hips (again, he's been struggling with the one leg for 1.5 years now, so some of this isn't sudden onset like osteo) but we'll see how things pan out. Ultrasound and second opinion on gait/etc is at 3:00 on Monday. Continued good thoughts that they find NOTHING wrong internally would be much appreciated. I'm very happy to be able to feel a bit hopeful again, but am hoping I'm not just chasing unicorns.... Thanks for listening!

He's been on glucloasmine supplements for about a year and on Fresh Factors for several years. Right now he is receiving bimonthly acupuncture treatments and he is on herbs for body soreness and herbs that are suppose to help with hind end weakness. We also tried a round of pred to see if that would help with any possible inflammation and have done a trial of doxy to rule out lyme and anaplasmosis, both of which are common here. My acupuncture vet was going to call with the bloodwork results at either noon or three depending on when she got into the office... it's beginning to look like 3:00 at this rate :sigh: It's also possible that the weight loss isn't that significant. When we weighed him on the usual "out front" scale which is where I usually weigh him, he was 57.5 pounds, which is horrifying because he's usually 60-61. When we weighed him on a more accurate in room scale, he was 59.6. So it's POSSIBLE he's lost less than a pound (I think he was 60.3 two weeks ago) BUT that would only be the case if the front scale was off kilter, which they said is possible. I don't want to be too hopeful about something like that though.

I've been avoiding xrays for a long time for two reasons. One is that Joe would be absolutely traumatized by them. He's scared to death of the vet and being man-handled and I'm fairly sure they would end up needing to sedate him to get him through it in one piece, which I hate to do at this point. The other reason is I don't know how well I'll be able to function if I get 100% confirmation that it is cancer. I realize how stupid that sounds, but yeah.... Up until now, I've been able to feel like there was hope and I was doing something that was helping him. Up until the 11th, this really seemed like LS or severe arthritis (especially due to it's duration and lack of noticeable limping or need for pain medications) I'm obsessive crazy about him and I really don't think I will sleep again until he passes away if I actually visually see cancer on x-rays. So yeah, while it's not rational, I've been avoiding them for my mental health....

Updated Post #37 Back in September 2011, Joe injured his rear left paw in the yard, nearly severed his toe. He had it stitched up (and it was questionable if it could be saved) and the toe was saved, but it kind of healed at a funny angle, and ever since then, he's had issues with that foot, either occasionally stepping on it weird or occasional limping. That winter, we didn't allow him to run in the yard at all (he has a LONG history of lots and lots of foot cuts on ice and snow) and that spring, we weren't too shocked to see that he wasn't necessarily in the best shape anymore as far as stamina. He'd run a few laps in the yard and being pretty shaky and worn out. We chalked this out to him being out of shape after 5 months of short leash walks (we live in Wisconsin where winters SUCK and Joe isn't a fan of walks) All last summer, we tried off and on to help him get back into shape but due to him having poor recall, he would often overdo it and thus, we ended up taking him for short leash walks and let him run less and less. His overall stamina seemed to decrease due to the lack of exercise to the point where it became rare that we let him run in the yard at all, despite his frequent attempts to run like the wind while being on a leash *smirk* Fast forward to this winter. By December 2012, that left foot seemed to bother him more and more and he would occasionally have that leg give out a little on him. I took him to the vet and they definitely found back pain and hip pain. We started him on a very low dose of gabapectin and he was very responsive to that. In January, we started acupuncture and totally took him off the pain meds. He responded GREAT to acupuncture and we were to the point where we were five weeks between appointments and for 90% of that time, we wouldn't be noticing any weakness or stiffness in his gait (he never really limps, it's always just been a stiff straight legged walk) The vet felt very confident that it wasn't cancer because it was responding so well to acupuncture and it wasn't getting worse at any point - he was no longer on pain meds, not deteriorating in any way. By March, he was going for 1-2 mile walks with his Dad, which is something he had never had the energy to do even as a young guy. Then in May, he ran wild in the yard, WAAY too many laps and overdid it. (He unfortunately has zero recall) Came in and his legs could barely support him. From that point on, it was like we were back at square one and I have been kicking myself for letting him off leash as he was doing so well. So we went back to accupuncture, started seeing some improvement again, feeling like it would take awhile, but things were heading in the right direction. Then two weeks ago, suddenly his right leg started acting the same way his left had originally. Shakiness, stiff, once or twice a week would give out a little while walking. It was like his muscles had wasted overnight. No real limping and no holding it up and this boy is a MAJOR drama queen and limps and screams when he so much as gets some poop on his foot, just a weird gait and weakness. Went to acupuncture two days later, saw a tiny improvement after that, but he seems very weak in the hind end. Even short potty breaks seem to tire him out. Appetite is great, he's happy, roaching, playing with toys, etc. Went back for another appointment today and he's lost two pounds in the two weeks despite not eating lessened amounts. For the first time ever, she couldn't find any painful areas in his back, which made her think something other than back pain was causing all these problems (we were really leaning towards arthritis/LS/etc due to his constant back pain) Between the weight loss, weakness, and lack of back pain, the vet instantly recommended we run labs and I'll get results back tomorrow. I had FINALLY convinced myself that this wasn't cancer because hey, the weirdness has been going on for well over a year! Acupuncture was making a huge difference for five months! But now suddenly for the other leg to weaken and the sudden weight loss, I'm scared to death. If anyone has any thoughts other than the ones screaming in my head (cancer cancer cancer cancer) I would love to hear them. Or, any and all good thoughts and prayers would be much appreciated. Joe's 9th Gotcha Day is 28 days away. He is my heart and soul and idea of life without him absolutely guts me. I know you guys understand. I feel like this is such a crapshoot - it's either cancer or his back end is failing him and we can't really seem to fix that either. He's only 11. He's my baby....

Oh no! I'm so very sorry for your loss

I'm so so sorry

I'm so very sorry. It's just not fair.

I'm so very sorry :grouphug

Aww, I remember Milky Way being one of my favorites when I first started posting here in 2004. I'm so very sorry for your loss, no matter how much time we have, it's never enough :grouphug

Oh Jey, I'm so sorry that I'm just seeing this now. I know how loved dear Joseph was and I know how you and Grammy must be hurting now. I'm so so sorry. :grouphug My thoughts are with you.