LBass

Welcome to GT. Your Ted surely is a handsome boy. --Lucy

Donna, hugs for you . I can imagine how worried you are for your handsome boy. --Lucy

Here is a link to some information about the rectal valium protocol: http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/diazepamprotocol.html and another that includes oral valium: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/OralandRectalProtocol.htm One of the things that makes seizures so hard to manage is that somehow things just don't stay the same. Predictability would be so welcome, but it just doesn't seem to go with the territory. Things may cruise along one way for a while but eventually something new crops up, with all the disquiet that causes. For instance, for the first 5 years of seizures with Piper I could count on the fact that he'd be up on his feet--clumsy and confused but on the move--within about 30 seconds of the end of a big tonic-clonic seizure. Then about a year ago that changed. Now he lies quietly, breathing heavily for a full minute or two. I found that rather alarming at first, but it just seems to be par for the course now. For most of that time as well, I could be pretty sure he'd have 7-10 weeks between seizures. In the last few months they are coming more like every 3-6 weeks. Not such a benign change but I suspect it is just the "new normal" for Piper and me. Warm good wishes to you and your boy --Lucy

All of your hounds are gorgeous but, Uncle Royce?! Wowzer, look at that amazing face!

Oh dear. I'm just catching up on this thread now and I am sure you are frantic with worry. Fingers crossed for your boy. Let us know when you can what your vet says. My Piper can cluster. When he does it is usually 10-12 seizures, one about every 3-4 hours over 2+ days. It is just awful for him and for me. For a long time I used liquid valium given rectally to try to break that cluster cycle. What I finally realized was that the value of the rectal valium is that it get into the system very quickly. Unfortunately, it is gone very quickly too. It is most effective with seizures that are coming one right on top of the other--w/in 30-45 minutes of each other or sooner. Piper's seizures were always farther apart so I finally realized that rectal valium probably wasn't helping him. My wonderful vet consulted with a neurologist and gave me a new plan to follow to stop those awful clusters. Now when Piper has a seizure I give him an additional Pb tablet and a 10 mg Valium tablet every 6 hours in addition to his normal 2 1/2 grains of Pb every 12 hours. That approach has kept him from having a cluster episode for over a year. In the past, I could always count on a big cluster episode each summer. At this point, he is still having single seizures but they are coming more frequently. I too am about to get his Pb and KBr levels checked again to see if he needs a change in his dosage. This business of managing seizures keeps us constantly on our toes, doesn't it. --Lucy

I have seen a similar phenomenon in Piper, my epileptic 8 year old. With him, I am reasonably certain it is a minor type of seizure--a partial or a focal seizure. With Piper, if I call his name and he engages and looks over at me the shaking stops. Sometimes is starts again and sometimes it doesn't. A good plan would be to record the dates/times/symptoms of the episodes in a log--you may be glad of the history later--though these don't seem to be serious spells for Piper. How nice too that you can speak to your vet about the episodes. --Lucy

That is such an encouraging update to read! Sounds like you are on the right track with Rufus.

Aw, bless his heart (and your too). Piper is pretty much chronically clumsy and ataxic from his combo of PB and KBr.

Piper came to me as a 2 year old and, after an amazing array of chewed up items (books, blinds, boxes wicker, fruit, paper, pillows and on and on ), I started to muzzle him when I left the house. He's 8 now and a couple of years ago I experimented with leaving him home without the muzzle. He did fine! No chewing and no destruction. So, there is certainly hope that as your hound matures the need for the muzzle may end. --Lucy

What a really beautiful girl. The thought of her sadness makes me so sad for her. I hope on some level she felt the love her new family had for her. Run free sweetheart.

Donna, in my email I know I was taking about seizures--I see them everywhere because of Piper --but reading again and reading your update I think it does not sound so much like a seizure (the physical recovery would normally be quicker) as a stroke perhaps or something else. What a nightmare for her foster Mom! Sending prayers and warm healing thoughts to both of them. --Lucy

Run free, sweetheart. You were well and truly loved and that is a precious gift.

Oh gosh, Chris, do I understand! I remember how horrified I was when I dropped Piper's Phenobarbital and Soloxine and the ball of dog food containing them was grabbed and gobbled up by little 25 lb Winston. Didn't seem to phase him at all and the e-vet (phone call) didn't seem too worried. How's 00 Dude doing today? --Lucy

From what I've read in trying to understand and manage Piper's epilepsy, it sounds as if something triggered the earlier seizures (the ones when he was 4-5)--perhaps meds or something else. Once a dog has had a seizure/seizures there seems to be an increased risk of future seizures. People refer to this as a lowering of the seizure threshold. It may be that his brain is now more susceptible to triggers that start the uncontrolled electrical activity that is a seizure. Certainly brain tumors are a possibility with late onset seizures but when discussing that possibility for Piper 2 different vets said that in that case we would soon begin seeing other neurological signs of brain cancer. I wish I had something more concrete to offer than good wishes that his seizures remain few and far between and mild. --Lucy

My instinct is that this is not behavioral and that the first step is looking for a physical cause. Piper had several week of dribbling pee, just as you describe. His was related to the dose of Potassium Bromide he was taking for seizure control. That medication tends to create hind end weakness and ataxia that, for Piper, afected his bladder as well. While scoping out what may be going on with your boy you might want to invest in a belly band and/or waterproof pads to use in his beds and on the couch. Those tactics helped as the vet and I tried to figure out what was going on with Piper. --Lucy

Donna, you may remember that Spirit came to me with a history of being very timid and way too frightened of people, etc. to race. He had really responded to lots of TLC at the racing kennel farm but was still skittish and afraid in new situations and very leery of men. I had his thyroid level tested because of his hugely flaky skin and indeed his thyroid level was quite low. As soon as the thyroid meds got on board I noticed subtle but distinct changes in his personality as well as his coat. He is currently not a dog I'd call skittish at all. He handles walks in very public areas like a champ and even lets men pet him. It might be worth having Buffy's thyroid tested. --Lucy

Tracey, what a timely post. I've been trying to frame the same question about Spirit. These very words have come out of my mouth! Several times over the ~9 months I've had Spirit I've heard him growl--not a groan, not that charming eargasm noise, but a real low throaty growly growl noise. Yet his body language looks happy, peaceful, content, relaxed. He growls while lying on the couch, alone, with no human or animal anywhere near him. He growls while lying in his bed--again with no one anywhere near him to deserve a warning. He recently growled while he was up on my bed. I was standing by the bed petting him (leaning over and loving on him because he always seems to love that) and he growled. I immediately backed off a bit to give him space and he immediately waved his front foot at me trying to catch my hand in his time honored "pleeeeease don't stop!" plea. I was so confused. Reading these responses, perhaps it is a contented vocalization for Spirit. Way to keep your confused human on her toes, Spirit. --Lucy

What a wonderful positive update to read for Jake!

Individual personalities can vary so much. Piper, my first grey is not a snuggler--won't get on the bed, just discovered the couch after 6 years--but he makes it clear that he loves it if I come sit with him and pet him. Spirit is rather undemonstrative--seldom wags his tail, doesn't kiss--but it is always a safe bet that if I reach down, he'll be right there beside me. He loves being attention and will wave a front paw at me if I stop. After several months, he will now sometimes hop up on the bed and curl up beside me. MoMo, my girl, is a snugglers dream! She hops up on the bed, plasters herself across me and I try to go to sleep with Mo breathing in my ear or on my neck. She eats up any and all forms of attention. I think you have to take your hounds as they are--after all, their preferences are half of what makes the relationship work. Having said that, 2 months is a very short time for her to settle in to home life and get to know and trust you. Don't despair and don't rush her. I'll bet she ends up being a great snuggle buddy in a few short months. --Lucy

So many good observations and suggestions--thank you all so much. I do recognize that I am going to have to be extra vigelant and careful in the future with both supervision and muzzles. I do think that sweet gentle Piper can go out safely with Winston and Piper might appreciate a respite from the young'uns too. Cathie, don't apologize for Spirit. I think he is such a handful because he is also such a smart boy. That also makes him a terrific dog and a wonderful character. It just means that I have to step up to the challenges he presents. Winston is a little old lovable grump and I will need to take extra care of and for him. --Lucy

Winston was not barking or fighting back. He was just lying down in the grass. In the past, that is how he typically deals with any dog who bothers him or plays too roughly. I am remembering a neighbor JRT who wanted to play but was rougher than Winston liked--Winston would just lie down until the unpleasantness went away. He tends to be a bit of a Drama King. It is certainly possible that he got stepped on and cried out at the beginning of last night's episode. I would likely not have heard that and yet it might have excited the greyhounds. I saw no evidence either before or after this incident that he'd had a seizure and he has no history of seizures. He had a full senior checkup within the past month. I have noticed in the last week that he avoids the greyhounds in ways he has not done before--stays up on the deck in a corner by rocking chairs rather than going on down into the yard with them, gives them a wider berth than usual. I am, of course, wondering if he has felt threatened by them before over the last week. --Lucy

I have 3 greyhounds and an elderly Cavalier King Charles spaniel. They've always gotten along well. Winston, the Cavalier, doesn't play with the big dogs, tends to stay out of their way, but is very willing to stand up to them if he has a toy or food, and has never seemed afraid of them. Other than occasionally getting stepped on in the crowd, I've never worried about Winston and the hounds. Last night all 4 dogs were into the back yard for their last potty trip before bed. I heard a lot of barking and went out to investigate. All 3 greys (but mostly the 2 younger ones, who were muzzled) were cluster around something in the yard, barking and poking at it with their muzzled noses. I thought they'd caught something but, as I got near, I realized it was Winston. He was fine, other than being a little wet from lying in the grass. I think the ring leader among the hounds was Spirit, who continued to try to dominate/intimidate Winston--based on posture (tail up) and stance (standing over Winston). Now, I am not angry with the hounds for acting like dogs. However, I am interested in promoting peace, harmony, and safety for all 4 dogs. I'd appreciate suggestions for managing this kind of pack dynamics and keeping Winston safe. At this point, I am making him go out alone or with me so he doesn't get ganged up on again. The only thing that has changed recently is that Winston had a dental about 2 weeks ago in which he lost 7 teeth, poor thing. He was rechecked Saturday by the vet and everything was healing well. I'm not suggesting that he ever had to use those missing teeth to defend himself, but I had wondered if the healing wounds in his gums played a part in exciting the other dogs or making Winston somehow seem vulnerable. --Lucy