LBass

I'm so very sorry that Melissa was taken by the disease we've all come to loath and dread. --Lucy

I'm so sorry. Minnie sounds like a very special girl who waited for the right family to come along before she got excited about anything. What a funny story about Linus chasing her! May Minnie live long in the fond memories of those whose lives she enriched. --Lucy

As Chris said, the "front line" drugs for treating seizures--Phenobarbital and Bromide (either as Potassium Bromide or as Sodium Bromide) are inexpensive. Piper takes 5 grains (~64 mg per grain) of Pb daily, in 2 doses. I get his Pb at Costco for less than $6 a month. He also takes Potassium Bromide. I get that from a compounding pharmacy by mail. They send two large bottles of solution that last about a 1 year. I can't remember the cost exactly but it seems to me that it is about $70. Those meds, or a combination of those meds help most dogs with seizures. If seizure control on those 2 is still not good there are several "tertiary" drugs that can be added. They help some dogs and don't help others. Unfortunately, most of them are eye poppingly expensive. Hope for generics! Remember to shop around to various pharmacies--the price difference for meds between pharmacies can be very significant. The general rule of thumb for treating seizures is to avoid meds until the dog is having more than one seizure in a 4 week period OR if the dog is having more than one seizure in a 24 hour period (cluster seizures). The most common side effects of Pb and Kbr are increased appetite, increased thirst, increased peeing (after all that eating and drinking ) and sometimes some hind end weakness and general clumsiness called ataxia. Interestingly, for most dogs, these side effects diminish or at least become tolerable after a few weeks on meds. Their bodies adapt and adjust. Some have a worse time than others with side effects. Finding the right dosing and combination of meds is more art than science. Be prepared for some months of trial and error as you and your vet experiment to find the right meds, combo of meds, and dosage. Remember that with both Pb and KBr there is a lag time as they build up to a therapeutic level. With Pb, you get an effect immediately but it is 3-4 weeks until the drug reaches its full therapeutic level. With KBr the lag time is even greater--3-4 months--before you are seeing the full effect of the drug. Remember that Pb needs to be dosed every 12 hours without fail--missing or delaying a dose for more than about an hour can trigger a seizure. KBr, on the other hand, has such a long half life that you don't actually even have to dose it daily, though most people do. KBr can cause tummy upset in some dogs. Give it with food. If tummy issues occur with it for your dog, talk to the vet about switching to Sodium Bromide--the bromide is the treating drug and the Sodium Bromide solution seems to cause far fewer tummy issues than dose Potassium Bromide. The other risk with Pb is that in some dogs--not many but some--it can cause serious liver issues. That is life threatening BUT happens in few dogs. The best approach is to monitor the liver function of dogs on Pb every 4-6 months. There are a couple of ways of doing this. There is a newer less troublesome test called Urine Bile Acids (take urine and run test) or the older Serum Bile Acids (take blood after fasting, feed, wait, take blood again, test and compare). Both tests work. Decide with your vet which is better in your situation. This regular testing permits you and your vet to determine whether your dog is going to be one with liver issues on Pb, catch it early, and deal with it while the amazing canine liver is still able to recover. I've been testing Piper's serum bile acids every 6 months for 6 years with nary a problem. Every dog is different, but I'll give you a quick recap of Piper's med reactions just as an example. He started on Pb and immediately got clumsy and wobbly when he walked. He also began to have accidents (both solid and liquid) in the house. Within 2 weeks all side effects were gone but seizure control was not good. He was having clusters of 3-4 seizures one night every week. Each time we increased the Pb and/or added/increased the KBr we'd have another 2 weeks of wobbly walking and accidents in the house and then the accidents would stop. The ataxia did not. Seizure control got better--usually 1 seizure every 7-10 weeks. He has remained ataxic but usually manages fine--just a bit clumsy. There have been just a few times over the last 6 years when I would notice his side effects getting gradually worse--more ataxia, dribbling pee. That always meant that it was time to look at his med levels--you can test for the levels of both Pb and KBr and that can help your vet tweak the doses as needed. We sometimes need to decrease his KBr. What you feed can affect the level of KBr so changes to food can mean you will also need to tweak that KBr dose. In terms of lasting side effects, for my dog it has been a noticeable but manageable level of ataxia and what I jokingly refer to as the Detrol Syndrome--when he has to go to the potty he has to go now, Now, NOW!! You know that annoying jingle...Gotta go, gotta go, gotta go, right now! Once I realized that he just couldn't be on a potty schedule and I put in a dog door, all was well. I am assuming that you've already found the links that I always post for Canine-epilepsy.com, Canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com, and Canine-epilepsy.net? If not I'll be glad to share. Those sites helped me get through the early difficult days of learning to live with and manage seizures. Consider joining the email support group that is part of Canine-epilepsy.com. There is a wealth of practical knowledge there that can help immeasurably. A neurologist from UTenn posts there, as does a good pharmacist, plus very knowledgeable owners of dogs with seizure from all sort of conditions. Sorry to have written such a novel. Epilepsy is no fun but it is usually a very manageable condition. Some dogs eventually get on the right meds and never have a seizure again. Some continue to have seizures but have fewer, farther apart, and perhaps milder ones. Oh, one final money saving tip. There is a lot of blood work involved in checking med levels, liver function, and generally monitoring the health of your dog. Consider looking into sending your dogs serum to Hemopet for these tests. The links to the forms and instructions are on the first 2 web sites mentioned. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll post links. My vet draws the blood for whatever tests we are going to run. His techs prep it and spin it. They give me the marked test tubes. I package them and mail them to Hemopet. The saving is significant. Best of luck to you and your hound. This is all very very manageable for most dogs. Lucy and Piper (currently 1 1/2 weeks seizure free and counting)

Piper fairly often gives no warning of seizures at all. When he does, the signs are usually so close to the onset of the seizure that all I can do is register "Here we go!" and he is in full seizure. In those situation he usually lift his head and his lips start moving in a spasmy way. The first time he had a seizure was the only time he ever had a clear aura stage--and of course I only realized the significance of what I'd seen after the fact. I was sitting beside his bed petting him and he leaped up and began sniffing, nose to the carpet, all over the house. He went frantically from room to room sniffing. He eventually settled down a bit but seemed anxious and restless and, for lack of a better word "worried". The first seizure came 3 hours later. --Lucy

I didn't answer the poll because of my 3, two have dew claws and one does not. MoMo, who came from Bill and Cathie Lambert's wonderful farm/kennel had her dew claws removed as a pup. Piper and Spirit still have theirs. --Lucy

In terms of what to do in the near future: I won't hurt to take him to the vet to make sure there is nothing treatable going on that could be causing the seizure. There are a host of possibilities. The web sites below will help you decide what may need to be checked. There is every reason to hope this is a one time incident. However, it would be a good idea to begin a log. You'll want to note the date and time of day of the seizure, it's length and a brief description, a list of anything unusual that has happened in the last 24-28 hours. With his history of the bacterial infection before birth, there may be some brain damage from infection, hydrocephalus, etc. That might be worth exploring if he does begin to have seizures. I don't know his age (sorry). How old is he? Here are some wonderful web sites with information about seizures: http://www.canine-epilepsy.com http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com Try not to panic. Seizures are no fun but most of the time they are eminently manageable on meds that are reasonably priced. The things that should probably trigger an immediate trip to the vet would be 1) seizures that don't stop or that occur one after another after another (emergency situation, get to vet ASAP) 2) seizures that occur more than once a month (that is the usual point at which meds are prescribed). As Marcia indicated, there is a lot of seizure experience here and I am sure others will chime in. --Lucy

Unfortunately, for some dogs (though not the majority) Phenobarbital can cause lasting liver damage. The good news is that, if it is caught early, medications can be changed and the liver is wonderfully able to heal itself. That is why the regular testing of liver function is regarded as a wise precaution for dogs on Pb. Piper has had several years with no issues so I am likely going to switch from testing every 6 months to testing every 12 months with my vet's blessing. http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/liver.html Here is a good article written by a veterinarian discussing anti-epileptic drugs and the liver. It in fact supports both what giadog's vet said--that not all elevated liver enzymes mean there is danger of liver damage--and what I have said--that there is, unfortunately, a small but real risk of serious liver damage from anti-epileptic drugs. --Lucy

I have not given Piper supplements. I would certainly consider doing so if Piper's liver labs looked like he was in any trouble. What I do is every 6 months have his serum bile acids tested at Hemopet. This lets my vet monitor his liver function so that we catch any trouble early when we can react appropriately. Remember that the vast majority of dogs take Pb without any liver issues ever developing. There is now an easier urine bile acids test that just requires that you collect pee. My vet and I discussed whether to switch from the more complicated serum bile acids test to the newer urine bile acids. We (the vet ) decided to stick to serum bile acids. We did this partly because we had several years of history with that test for comparison purposes. Also the vet explained that the urine bile acids test was statistically slightly more likely to miss a liver problem than the serum bile acids test (which was slightly more likely to give false positive readings)--I think this is what he said. With the serum bile acids you have to take a fasting blood sample. Then you feed a fatty meal and take another blood sample a couple of hours later. It isn't terribly troublesome, but necessitates the dreaded skipping of a dogs rightful breakfast and 2 trips to the vets office in one morning. --Lucy

Here is a list of compounding pharmacies that you may want to check. I have had good luck using RP Healthcare at 2456 W Third St Santa Rosa California 95401. The phone/fax numbers are (800) 448-4355. 707-571-5955, fax 707-571-5951(fax). My vet can fax the prescription. I usually get 2 bottles (close to a one year supply) at a very reasonable price. http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Pharmacies.html --Lucy

As I understand it, anyone can send samples to Hemopet for analysis. It is a bit of a pain to package up the serum for mailing but the saving is significant and well worth the effort. My vet draws blood for whatever selection of tests we are running and the techs spin and prep it per the directions on the sheet from Hemopet. I then take the serum and package it for mailing. I've never had a problem sending it by USPS Priority Mail. Dr. Dodds sends the blood to Antec (I think) and then writes up her assessment and recommendations and faxes those, with test results, to me and to my vet. --Lucy

Keeping you and Chase in my thoughts and prayers. --Lucy

Piper has tonic/clonic seizures and is also prone to cluster. From everything I've read in trying to help him, the combo of KBr and Pb is a particularly good combination of drugs for dogs with cluster seizures. It certainly helped Piper--we went form weekly clusters to typically one seizure every 7-10 weeks. In talking with your vet, I'd suggest that you discuss adding Pb and getting levels on KBr. You can save a considerable amount of money by sending the blood to Dr. Dodds at Hemopet to get the levels of meds checked. The forms to do so are on a couple of the web sites posted earlier. If you'd like more specifics, PM me. The early days of dealing with seizures can be difficult and stressful. There tends to be a lot of time spent tweaking meds and playing with doses to get the optimal balance between decent seizure control and problem side effects. It is hard. But, there is usually light at the end of the tunnel and things settle down. The frantic eating/drinking and the endless peeing usually ends or becomes manageable. --Lucy

Here are my favorite web resources for canine seizures: http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Resources.html http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/

What an unnerving experience for you and for Chase. It sounds as if you've got a great vet and that makes dealing with medical mysteries somewhat less stressful. Having dealt with seizures, a stroke, and vestibular disease in 3 of my animals, I wish Chase a swift and uneventful recovery and nice treatable diagnosis. --Lucy

Hugs and warm healing thoughts for you and the dogs.

What wonderful news to read this morning!

Sending good thoughts and prayers for Iceman.

I'm so glad he's home!

Aw, poor William and poor worried you! Sending prayers and warm healing thoughts that William will be fine and mended and tucked up in his bed at home this very evening. --Lucy

Good news that Merlin looks to be on the mend!

Cavalier, Winston, has a similar issue with vaccinations that began when her was about 10. We now split them over a couple of weeks and he gets Benedryl a bit before the vaccination injections. Before taking these steps, he usually had swelling at the injection site and generally seemed to feel punk--lethargic and grumpy. Kisses to Merlin. --Lucy

Tracey, I am so very sorry that Cosmo is gone. --Lucy

I can imagine how worried you are about Merlin. I hope that talking witht he vet will relieve your mind and that poor Merlin will be feeling better very very soon.

I think that it is a very individual choice based on how your dog reacts to vaccinations, medications, etc. Piper has never demonstrated increased seizure activity around dosing with monthly heartworm pills or around vaccinations. Based on that, I carry on with those things as usual. My vet is good about using the 3 year rabies vaccine and I like that, since it protects Piper while minimizing the amount of vaccine he gets. --Lucy

I think that Buzzy hit the nail on the head. Piper has a couple of scars he came with and I had wondered about them and worried a bit too. I wonder and worry far less now that I've got two more young, active greys in the house. Some one of the 3 usually has some sort of minor scrape because that delicate thin skin tears so very easily. In the past 2 months, both MoMo and Spirit have gotten scars from little "nothing" events in the yard or house. Mo now has two small hairless strips on one side where Piper's teeth grazed her skin when she barged into him and he told her to cut it out. I really mean grazed to--there was no bite, just a couple of scrapes. Once the scabs fell off, the hair has not shown any signs ob growing back. I didn't see what happened to Spirit in the living room but it left him with a boo boo that is scabbed over now and is sure to leave a scar. Congratulations on your new greyhound! Welcome to GreyTalk, too! --Lucy