NeylasMom

Hi all, crazy day. Short version for those who don't want to read all of the details - Zuri is still with us and I'm feeling a lot more hopeful about things though I know things can change on a dime. Long version, keep reading... So I finally connected with the vet around 3:30 pm. By then after giving it a lot of thought and also talking it through with my therapist I had decided that even if it had to be tomorrow, it wasn't going to be today because I still had too much uncertainty. I also realized I was having a lot of anxiety over wanting his last day and euthanasia to be "perfect" so I felt like if I didn't follow through today I might not be able to do it exactly how I wanted (spending the day with him, feeding him his dinner and having the vet come when he's nice and relaxed afterward), but I realized that was the wrong way to think about it, especially when we essentially have 2 vets on call who can between them come pretty immediately. So I asked the vet to come anyway just to meet with us, give us her unbiased assessment and also check out the issue with Zuri's anus. First off, I really like her. We've talked on the phone a good bit and meeting her in person just confirmed that she is very compassionate, kind, and the person I want to help us when it's time if at all possible. She also specializes in pain management, end of life care and euthanasia - it's all she does - so she had a lot of information about pain management and especially oral pain meds that was very different from what my oncologist's approach has been. I had already decided to change the frequency of Zuri's Gabapentin while I sorted all of this out (every 6 hours instead of every 8) so he got his first "earlier" dose at 2:30. Between that and/or his massage this morning, when we got up for a walk at 5 he was bouncing off the walls. He actually tried to take off running when we got outside on leash. :-o She also told me that she is really not a fan of Tramadol so recommended leaving that where it is, but is a huge fan of Gabapentin and gave me good information about safety and how to introduce dosage increases to reduce the possibility of any side effects. She also suggested I add in Amantadine right away. I have had it on hand since Zuri's radiation, but was nervous because the bottle lists dizziness as a possible side effect and I don't know many people who have used it. She said she's not had a patient have side effects from it and it's either an it helps or it doesn't med, but there was basically no harm in trying. So I will add that in tomorrow to see if it gives him a boost. She mentioned Tylenol as an option down the road as well, but didn't think we needed to make additional changes now. Overall she was very in tune with my comfort level in terms of not exchanging quality of life for pain management so I feel very comfortable with her recommendations. She also gave me very good news on the butt licking. She expressed his glands and did a rectal exam, but there was nothing wrong. It's just irritated and inflamed from licking, so I'm going to continue the epsom salt soaks and apply hydrocortisone and try really hard to keep him from licking (easier said than done when I go to work). Her general overall assessment was that she thought it was perfectly fine if I wanted to make the decision to let him go at any point, but that she didn't feel there was any sense of urgency and she felt his pain management was very good. She said he looked better than virtually all of her osteo clients and also pointed to some specifics like how he will prop himself on his "bad" leg in a very awkward angle that puts a lot of pressure on it that she said was unusual for a dog with a tumor in his location. I almost didn't have her come and was just going to take Z to my regular vet to have his anal glands looked at. I am SO glad I did. She is a fantastic resource and it was incredibly helpful to have an unbiased professional opinion about his comfort level. The fact that there is nothing serious going on with his anal glands is also a huge relief. Obviously if he had an abscess or even worse a tumor that would have been very different. So I'm cautiously optimistic though I realize that there are many things that can still go wrong. So that's where we're at. I feel a definite sense of relief, but I'm also trying to temper my optimism because I know how unpredictable osteo can be and she and I both agreed that the stairs are a big factor in our case. I also think that if we see any length of steady improvement we should consider an x-ray to make sure there isn't a significant increase in damage to the bone and risk for fracture because that is the last thing I want. But for now, we continue to take it day by day. Lori, I have been thinking about you, Cecil and the rest of your family this entire time. In the midst of our potentially brief reprieve I feel heartbroken for you. Continuing to send comforting thoughts to both you and Miriam as well, and hope that you will check in when you're ready.

Lori, thinking of you, Geno, and Cecil

I'm so sorry. This is really a terrible day for osteo dogs. But I'm glad you were able to find a vet to help you when you were ready to let him go and that he had from the sounds of it an excellent last day.

So sad for you guys, but glad you will be at home with him. Will be sending thoughts for a peaceful passing.

Thanks Mer. I have been avoiding posting much elsewhere, at least not details, because things are so day by day and I don't necessarily want to take everyone on the rollercoaster ride with me. I'm just really struggling this time around. I think this just being a ** year with my dad dying and yesterday being a year since I let Cisco go isn't helping either. But I have to do what's best for Z. The vet called me back, but there was some weird connection issue and then I got her voicemail. I'm hoping to talk with her soon.

Thank you Miriam. Lori, how are you, Geno and Cecil doing? I hope you had a restful night. I didn't sleep at all last night and am really struggling. Waiting for the vet to call me back. In the meantime, it's the first nice day we've had in ages so we're hanging on the deck enjoying some fresh air.

I would take him to the vet for a full blood panel and urinalysis. And I wouldn't restrict water intake until you do. Neyla became incontinent in her sleep when she developed kidney disease. Could hold it or ask to go out when she was awake, but peed when she was sleeping. I bought washable incontinence pads on Ebay to put on my bed and her dog beds, and eventually went to putting a diaper on her as well. Anyway, this sounds like a medical issue to me and regardless, always best to rule those out first.

Lori, hope you are having a peaceful night with Cecil. I River too. I am a sucker for the fuzzies. I gotta tell ya, it really sucks laying here with my boy not knowing if tomorrow is going to be our last day together.

Glad you are seeing improvement with Cecil! I thought I saw that affect from the cannabis supplement on the first day after he got 2 doses a little closer together than 12 hrs but not since then. However, many people report using it to increase appetance. I always assumed it was the high that gave you the munchies, but I am guessing it's the cannabinoids themselves. The in-home euthanasia vet did say in passing to me that many dogs with osteo don't stop eating and if that was what I was "waiting for" implied he might end up in bad shape (I was just saying that would be a definite sign to me, not something I was waiting for). Other than this stupid anal gland issue, we're continuing to have a really good day over here where I'm sure I've let him do too much.

He could certainly have a medical issue. Medical issues can cause behavioral issues like SA and aggression. Its also possible that the continual stress from the SA is causing him to respond unfavorably to things that wouldn't otherwise normally bother him. Its also possible there is something off with his brain chemistry that requires medication to address. I hope your group will have him evaluated thoroughly and get him the help he needs.

Oh my, Niels It's a good thing you don't live closer or I would be coming to steal him. So this is why I was hesitant to post. I ran out to the grocery store to get steak for Zuri and I to share for dinner tonight. When I got home 20 minutes later and let him out of his crate he went trotting around the place with his Cuz ball like it was any old day. Barely a limp to be seen, my normal bright-eyed bushy-tailed guy. I had food puzzles on the agenda for today so I got those out and we did a few rounds with those, he ran around a little more waiting to see if we were going to do anything else and now he's snoozing on his bed. His last slightly increased dose of meds was his Tramadol at 2:30 am. He's been back to his more recent "normal" dose since this morning. I am incredibly grateful, even if he's sore again after this and it doesn't change things and he just has one last really good day, but man this is a freaking emotional rollercoaster! At least the vet was kind enough to tell me that if things changed drastically tomorrow it was no problem to cancel our appt. To celebrate something small in the meantime, Zuri is bandage/sockless for the first time since the serious effort to heal his toe sore began. There's a tiniest little dog of a scab so I'm keeping an eye to make sure he doesn't lick, and I may put the sock back on for walks to make sure there's no rubbing, but I'm happy at least that he's unencumbered by any bandaging, not that if ever really seemed to bother him that much. Anyway , Lori, any updates on Cecil? Really hoping you've been able to get him comfortable and am sending many good thoughts your way. Would love for both of us to get some of this good day mojo!

Get thee to a vet behaviorist. Sileo may be a good option for him, but if he's generalizing to other sounds a longer acting anti-anxiety drug like Prozac might be needed. Unfortunately Ace is about the worst thing you can do for a dog with noise phobia. It sedates them so they can't it "escape", but it does nothing to reduce their anxiety. So as you've seen, over time, it worsens their fear. I know you were just trying to help and your instinct to seek out help from medication was a good one, but shame on the vet who prescribed it. I hope you can find a good solution, poor guy (and poor you!).

Having heard only your description of things I think this group did you a disservice placing this dog in your home. I'm very sorry you find yourself in this situation, but I think you're making the right decision. The resource guarding behavior with the new dog is somewhat concerning given the kids, but that is something you can work on through reward based training. 3greytjoys gave a lot of good info to get you started there.

Fwiw, the idea of a Mary Jane sundae made me laugh. The other problem with sharing my decision - peoples' responses to it make it seem more real. I just hope I have the strength to follow through. I've been questioning for days whether I actually would have the strength to make the right decision - I am really having a hard time coming to terms with the reality of this despite having months to prepare myself. But yesterday there was a knowledge that I would probably need to call the vet today and this morning there was a resolve that made me pick up the phone. Lori, is there no other option to have someone come sooner? There is a service here that only does that, but I wasn't able to find them through Google, I think because they are a little far. But a friend told me about them and they just charge an extra fee to come to my area. Maybe your group knows of someone? Or is there a way that you could do the e-vet that would be peaceful for Cecil? Does he like car rides? If so, maybe making the most awesome comfy layered bed for him and having the vet come out to the car? I understand so much wanting to do it at home because I feel the same way and I support you whatever you decide - absolutely NO judgement here. I am just concerned in the end you will regret waiting based on what you're saying. I know you and Geno will make the best decision for Cecil regardless. So sorry you have this to add to your struggle.

I'm so sorry. Could it be the extra Tramadol and maybe backing off would help? Can you get a hold of your vet? Trazodone might settle him. Would likely also sedate him, but that may not be a bad thing at this point. Really hope you are able to work something out so you don't have to go to the e-vet. To add to the great news in here, I called the in-home euthanasia vet this morning. We have an appt at 6:30 tomorrow evening. I didn't want to post because I'm afraid I'll change my mind, but it's unlikely I will. Zuri was doing great on Friday, his best day yet, so we walked more and he ran around with his Cuz a lot. Yesterday he was painful as a result. Not as bad as Monday, but I had to give a little extra Tramadol yesterday evening to keep him comfortable and wanting to do stairs. It was only 25 mg for his evening and nighttime doses and I didn't give it this morning, but I told myself if I had to increase his meds again it was time. It's clear he's not going to rebound from this and I just feel like he's tired. Could I keep him comfortable for longer? Probably. But he's not having much fun anymore. The good news is we are finally supposed to get a break in this weather and tomorrow should be a nice day so we may be able to spend some time on the deck in the fresh air. He also has an appt with his in home massage therapist at 11:45. I'm a little torn about having her come because it's hard to bear the thought of an hr of time not just spent alone with him, but he really enjoys them and they make him feel good so I think I will keep it. Otherwise there will be more cheeseburgers, fries and ice cream and lots of snuggling.

Lori, that's so scary and horrible and frustrating and just not what you and Geno needed right now. I'm so sorry. Glad at least that the stings weren't horrible for Cecil. I'm not really up for posting much tonight, except to say that I'm just chilling on Z's dog bed with him because that's where I need to be. He had his head in my lap for a while, then he repositioned and stretched out to get more comfy, but he made sure he was still stretched alongside/touching me. Are either of you on FB? If so, feel free to friend me. I've been posting a lot of?photos and tonight I posted a video of me teaching Zuri to lay his head down on cue. My last name is Boyd-Morin. Roux - is your first name Miriam? I hate not referring to you by name - thank you so much for continuing to offer support. I wish I could help make this time easier for you. Your description of how you're feeling is so familiar. As the reality of this starts to sink in I think about that sort of stuff. How his crate will sit empty in the bedroom for weeks or maybe longer, unneeded but me unable to take it down. And all of the special beds I've set up for him, the numerous meds and supplements that have taken over my kitchen, the mattress I ordered to put on my living room floor that will almost certainly now arrive on my doorstep after he's gone. I don't know how you are doing it.

What a handsome handsome man

Lori, glad some extra meds are helping Cecil today. I tell you, I don't know about you, but I am grateful for every additional day we have, but this day by day thing is so difficult. Mostly I am struggling to get my work done because all I want to do is spend time with Zuri. This afternoon instead of buckling down I used a piece of cheese to encourage Z to get in bed where we napped together. I got up at 4:30 to give him his Gabapentin and then climbed back in so this is happening now. No more cheeseburger video yet, but this is Z trotting around 2 days ago (forgive the quality and that horrible dog barking incessantly in the background - must be a neighbor's because greyhounds don't bark : https://youtu.be/Ae5hWja92w4 He is sleeping more and I'm not sure yet whether that's him just getting tired or if he's more relaxed on the cannabis supplement. It could be a combination. In positive news, the toe is really truly almost healed. Tiny little scabbed over area so I still soaked this morning and he has his sock on just to prevent rubbing, but it looks really good. I'm also doing an Epsom salt soaked washcloth on his anus when I do his toe, but no licking of that area or bleeding since we first noticed it. I am glad those things are seemingly or nearly resolved and the soaks he seems to actually enjoy now. Anyway, need to drag us out of bed soon to walk and feed everyone and then pretend like I'm going to do some work. I do have to teach tomorrow so I'll be gone for 6 hrs, which sucks.

Trazodone can definitely cause sedation so I think that seems like a reasonable plan. Having in home vets on call does definitely take some of the pressure off so I'm glad you have that option. Keep us posted! I hope you have a lot more quality time together.

First off, if she truly had anxiety of some sort she isn't doing anything to "push you". Anxiety is a physiological and emotional response, not something she can control. Second, is the whining, pacing, etc when you're home? It so, that's not separation anxiety. There's really not enough detail in your post to know what's going on, but my first guess is maybe you're just asking for too much and need to take a step back and let her settle in. You don't say how long you've had her, but it takes time to teach a dog cues well enough that they can respond to them in a variety of situations. So that right there gives me some indication that either it hasn't been long enough or she's just stressed. Regarding eating, have you tried just leaving her alone? Or why not try moving her food bowl and then leave her alone? Checking for any potential medical issues and making sure she doesn't have any stomach upset would also be a good idea. Are you feeding what she got in her foster home?

Not anywhere near max dosages for a greyhound on the Tramadol and Gabapentin. My recommendation is to always consult with an oncologist. If you don't get good pain relief with those doses please talk to someone about increasing them, and definitely don't skip a dose because he's asleep. My personal experience is increasing frequency before amount goes better - Tramadol and Gabapentin can both be dosed every 6 hrs.

Wake him. I had to change Zuri's med schedule to every 6 hrs instead of every 8 for Tramadol. I have the pills pre wrapped in pill pockets in a pill case along with PB next to my bed, my alarm goes off, I wake up and give them, usually run to the bathroom and we go back to sleep. He barely raises his head. You said he's up to his full doses of those meds - do you mind my asking what they are? I'm very sorry you're faced with this. Please feel free to join our small crew in the osteo thread. Also, would suggest googling for in home vets/euthansia and asking local dog friends. I found the person I plan to use looking for a mobile vet just for blood draws and my back up should she not be available as soon as I need her is a service that only does in home euthanasia and cremation who a friend used and recommended.

I'm sorry. I'm wrestling with the same decisions and it's a double-edged sword either way - I am single so my decisions do t have to take anyone else's feelings into account, but that means I do all of the second-guessing, carry all of the guilt and take on all of the stress and work by myself. But honestly, I can't imagine watching my dog suffer because my partner wasn't ready to let him go so I guess I will take alone. In any event, I'm very sorry you're in this tough place and that your boyfriend seems to be dealing with his own grief by being insensitive to you. I hope you can find a common ground. No advice on the treatment aspect except to say that in the many threads I've seen on this site dealing with end of life decisions I've rarely seen such emphatic recommendations to one end. Maybe sharing the responses with your boyfriend would help him come to terms?

So sorry Cecil isn't doing great. This sucks!!!

Roux, glad to hear from you to know that you at least are surviving. I'm so very sorry for your loss. It never gets easier. I know that you will find the best pup to help fill the hole in your hearts when you are ready. It took me a long time after I lost Neyla to osteo to be ready to welcome another dog home, but I always say that Violet brought joy back into our home and hearts. Zuri is doing pretty well. Day after day I ask myself if today is the day and I think it's not, but tomorrow may be. And then he surprises me. Monday was the worst and things have definitely been better since then. We are not going back there, or if we do I will call the vet immediately. Buy he's actually running around and playing with his Cuz before I can stop him. He is sometimes sore afterward, but it does seem to be less when he is. We haven't had an issue with stairs since Monday. So I decided today that I'm not going to stop him anymore. We will still keep walks shorter (it's too hot anyway), but if he wants to play or otherwise be silly I will let him. If that becomes a problem, then it's time to call the vet. I don't think there's any chance we'll have a complete bounceback, but we're only today getting the hemp fully on board and I do think it may be doing something so as long as he's acting like himself and comfortable we'll see where we get with that. The vet is on standby and I can have her or the vet from the other service come within 24 hours so knowing that, I feel more comfortable with this day by day approach. Thanks for asking about us in the midst of your grief. I have been thinking about you guys constantly and checking this thread pretty much hourly of not more often hoping to hear from you. Continued good thoughts for you and your family as you deal with this.