Neyla's Weird Episodes Are Back

[NeylasMom]

Neyla has occasionally has these periods where she has these weird episodes, mostly in teh middle of hte night, where she seems somewhat disoriented and walks around confused and looking a little paranoid. I posted about it previously so if you want the gory details, you can find them here. Otherwise, just watch the video. You can skip ahead to about 1 1/2 min to see the most obvious behavior. This is last night around 4 am, and she did it again tonight around 9:30. Each ;episode lasted about 30 minutes total.

 

 

The last time this happened, I had narrowed it down to either Tramadol or stomach issues so I stopped the Tramadol and nothing since. Well, now she's back on Tramadol for about 2 months AND she's having stomach problems and they're back. I am pretty sure it's gas like my vet originally suggested though - she seems to get relief/stop about 15 min after I give her a gas-x. Tonight's resoluation was also preceeded by 2 huge burps a few minutes apart.

 

I am working on resolving her stomach issues and if that doesn't address it, I can try taking her off of the Tramadol so I guess I just want to make sure no one thinks these are caused by something else, and also ask **?! Has anyone every seen their dog do this????

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Only after a seizure, and add panting. That was a sheltie though...no advice from me, sorry your baby is upset.

[MandysMom]

Jen - Mandy does the same thing from time to time, though it's usually in the early evening. She does take Tramadol (darned corns), but there doesn't seem to be any change in her behavior when I raise or lower her dose, which I do depending on what we're doing (lots of standing or walking = more Tramadol). Neyla kept going to that one spot, which Mandy does too (except hers is in my dining room). At first it kind of creeped me out, because my last dog started laying right there a few weeks before she died. I've often wondered if Mandy is sensing Meg's presence or if there's just something weird about my dining room (other than the fact that there is no table in there). She doesn't seem in pain -- no panting or anything -- just kind of stands there and stares.

 

I'll stop rambling, but do want to send good thoughts for Neyla.

Edited July 10, 2010 by MandysMom

[greymomnc]

Jonelle did something similar a few times not long after we adopted her. It happened in the family room and in the bedroom. It turns out she was watching the light from the TV bouncing off the glass coffee table, mirror, and anything with a reflection in it. She acted exactly like your girl in the video.

 

When she starts this behavior is the room totally dark? Watching the video, it seemed she was was noticing her shadow on the walls. I know at 4AM probably so, but some people sleep different hours, have the TV on, or sleep with a low light on. Just a thought.

[NeylasMom]

 

When she starts this behavior is the room totally dark? Watching the video, it seemed she was was noticing her shadow on the walls. I know at 4AM probably so, but some people sleep different hours, have the TV on, or sleep with a low light on. Just a thought.

That's a good catch, she does react to shadows when this is happening, but that's not what is causing it. I've seen the behv in various lighting conditions at this point.

 

She also doesn't stay in any one spot - I think in teh video she may have because she knew I was paying attention to her - but generally she wanders. Although I have seen her spend more time in certain spots like where she can smell the cat's room (food and litter, both snacks in her mind) and around the coat closet door where I store kibble for fosters. Which also makes me think stomach issues as I've noted she tends to want to eat when her stomach is upset.

 

Beverly, I do think it's interesting you've seen this with Mandy and she's on Tramadol.

 

 

Seriously, big fat

[DaisyDoodle]

Daisy is on Tramadol for her corny/arthritic toe and started wretching--like she was about to vomit, but doesn't. We started her on Famotidine and her stomach issues seem to have resolved.

[maggiespet]

Hugs to sweet Neyla.

[Batmom]

Tramadol visions or tummy upset or pain ... but which one? If only they could talk .......... How much Tramadol is she taking?

[greymomnc]

I missed your statement about Tramadol in your first post. The late Miss Jackie had a number of back problems. She was taking Rimadyl and Tramadol together for some time and got along fine. Then, at age 13 she was diagnosed with lymphoma. We elected not to put her through chemo or surgery due to her age and neurotic nature. The vet increased her Tramadol dosage to manage her pain and the first night she paced ALL NIGHT LONG and just acted odd in general. So, the next day, the vet gave me a low dose of valium to give her to deal with the increased side effects from the higher Tramadol dosage. That did the trick. It was just enough to take the edge off--she did not act dopey or drugged up. If Neyla only does this periodically maybe you could try it once and see what happens. However, it would seem if it were the Tramadol causing it, the behavior would be more consistent. Sorry I missed this the first time I replied. I hope you get to the bottom of this. When they act like that it can be very upsetting. Hugs to you and your girl.

[seeh2o]

My little lion "foster" dog is on Tramadol and he wanders a lot at night. I've read through your post twice and just now it hit me, the Tramadol nightly wandering thing. I wonder if they are connected. He doesn't act like he has stomach upset as he eats really well, has no stomach gurgles, or gas, etc.

[NeylasMom]

Tramadol visions or tummy upset or pain ... but which one? If only they could talk .......... How much Tramadol is she taking?

Exactly. Tramadol is 50 mg 2x/day.

 

Her new probiotic/tummy supplement finally arrived today so I started her on that and I also gave pepcid before her morning meds. I'm going to continue both for the next few days, then stop the pepcid if things are improving. If all of that goes well, I may try to wean her off the Tramadol as well.

 

Thanks for all of the input!

[Guest LindsaySF]

Rogan will pace and have a hard time settling when he has some tummy issues (gas, etc), so the pacing and not laying down could very well be that. But her behavior around the 1:30 mark looks very much like Sophie's post-ictal state, or when I've just had to dose her with rectal valium, it looks very neurological. So I am going to assume it's the Tramadol making Neyla a little "high".

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest Energy11]

Rogan will pace and have a hard time settling when he has some tummy issues (gas, etc), so the pacing and not laying down could very well be that. But her behavior around the 1:30 mark looks very much like Sophie's post-ictal state, or when I've just had to dose her with rectal valium, it looks very neurological. So I am going to assume it's the Tramadol making Neyla a little "high".

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

I was thinking the very same thing. While Tramadol didn't really phase Max, (our OS dog), it does hit others pretty hard.

[Batmom]

Do you have any sense of how long after the Tramadol dose these episodes occur? Could try giving a half dose twice as often and see if that resolves things.

[Batmom]

Do you have any sense of how long after the Tramadol dose these episodes occur? Could try giving a half dose twice as often and see if that resolves things.

[NeylasMom]

Do you have any sense of how long after the Tramadol dose these episodes occur? Could try giving a half dose twice as often and see if that resolves things.

I don't know if I could figure that out fo rhte previous periods. Maybe since it was centered around treating her toe pain, but it would be tough. This time, she's been on it for 2 months at that dosage.

 

I'd actually like her off of it anyway - I've never been convinced that she needs either this or the Deramaxx for the osteo yet, it's jsut an "in case" sort of thing, but it has made a huge difference with her bad toe in teh back so I need to be careful about that if I take her off of anything. I may try your suggestion first - need to get a pill cutter though I think. The older pills are oblong and split, but we're almost out of those. The new ones are round and not split.

[Batmom]

I'm thinking more along the lines of, the dosage amount is making her "high" for an hour or two, or else the pain relief is wearing off. I think tramadol is pretty fast-acting so I think you'd see "high" within an hour after giving the pill. If she has a visible lesion on x-ray, she ought to have something but if it's small and stable it could be the Deramaxx would be enough.

[silverfish]

It's interesting because when I was watching the video, I was thinking it was maybe a hearing problem, because there were similarities between the way she was acting and the way Jack used to act sometimes when he got old. In Jack's case, we narrowed it down to the fact that he was losing his hearing, but more in one ear than the other, so he found it very difficult to tell where sounds were coming from.

 

And then you all started talking about Tramadol, and I thought 'Aha!' You see, in people, Tramadol has a reputation for causing aural hallucinations, and in fact I've experienced it myself. It wasn't frightening, it was kind of interesting, but of course, to a dog, hearing odd sounds would maybe freak them out a little and maybe that's what's happening to Neyla. She has her ears halfway up, so maybe she's 'hearing' something, but can't even tell where it's coming from - in my case, it was people talking or singing right next to my ear. I can imagine how that would disorient a dog!

 

At the end there, she's flicking her ears, and constantly turning to the left as if she can hear something. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, since the idea occured to me, but it does look as if she's looking for the source of a noise she can't pinpoint.

[Guest BooBooMama]

Yes, BooBoo started doing that when she was on Tramadol. She looked so on edge and alert as walked around as if she was tracking something. At first I thought I had mice in the house and followed her around trying to see what she was following. She only did it at night. The vet told me she was hallucinating.

[jenn8]

If she has osteo, she is going to need something for pain and inflammation. They don't always make it obvious when they experience pain but it will definitely happen. I would check with the vet before making any drastic changes in her meds. Maybe he can prescribe something else.

 

Jenn

[cleptogrey]

she looks disoriented, as all the other post have mentioned it might just be the tramadol. if she is still uncomfortable she will get up and pace as well so it can be a combo of the two. emily used to wander during the night when she was on tramadol for her osteo when the dosage needed to be increased. she also used to pee as well. willie wonka(@age 14) had dimentia at the end, (no oseto- no drugs,unless i sedated him) wandered and cried since he was confused(he started to freak out if he was confined in a crate), especially in the dark his vision was failing. but it looks like she might still be a tad uncomfortable.

[NeylasMom]

At the end there, she's flicking her ears, and constantly turning to the left as if she can hear something. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, since the idea occured to me, but it does look as if she's looking for the source of a noise she can't pinpoint.

You might be onto something here!! I recall that when we were outside walking to see if she would poop during one of these last episodes, there was a loud noise (my place faces the back of a Lowe's) and she reacted really strongly to it. It's the kind of thing that woudl have caused her to freeze up back in her spook days, but now doesn't phase her at all. So maybe the Tramadol is causing sensitivity to noise and/or these aural hallucinations.

 

Yes, BooBoo started doing that when she was on Tramadol. She looked so on edge and alert as walked around as if she was tracking something. At first I thought I had mice in the house and followed her around trying to see what she was following. She only did it at night. The vet told me she was hallucinating.

It oddly makes me feel better to hear that someone else has experienced just this from Tramadol too. There seem to bve clear signals that its related to her stomach, but the fact that we went something like a year an d a half without any episodes while she was off the Tramadol and 2 months after being back on...just seems pretty fishy.

 

I am going to go iwth its either just the Tramadol, or some combo, like maybe the upset stomach wakes her and then the disorientation combined with the Tramadol causes her to hallucinate.

 

 

Jey, I thought you were on to something, but the episodes have mostly been in the middle of the night and we give the Tramadol around 6 pm. They are all in the evening/overnight, but of course most days I'm at work. Still, I would think I'd have seen one on a wkd day at some point if she were doing it during the day too (we also give it around 10 am).

 

Thank you everyone for your input. I honestly got so much more useful feedback than I expected for such an odd issue! You guys rock.

 

Oh, Jey, regarding the lesion, if only I could get my freaking vet to tell me that. He is so frustrating, still suggesting she might not have osteo. I can see what looks like a lesion on the x-ray to me (white patch), but he won't identify it as such. He has confirmed the dark patches are bone loss. Do you know what cancer looks like? I have really good images I could email to you fi you'd be willing to look at them?

[Batmom]

I'm not that good with x-rays . Worth emailing to OSU, or will your vet refer to a board-cert radiologist?

[Batmom]

P.S. Has she had a fine needle aspirate? Any symptoms other than a limp (funky bloodwork, runny eyes, "what's that?" chest x-ray, etc.)?