Grazing, Maybe Lack Of Appetite

[cgs]

I probably have too many variables in play to even bother worrying right now but....

 

When we first got Percy 2 weeks ago, he would eat most of his breakfast and gobble down his dinner. Then he started grazing more through the morning for breakfast. Eat a little, go back a bit later for more, etc. But still ate his dinner all at once. The past few days (I really need to keep a food/medicine/poop diary) he's been slower with dinner, sometimes grazing through that through the evening.

 

Last night, he had his first dose of panacur powder--hookworms and giardia. It took a while to get him to eat his whole dinner. This morning he had no interest in breakfast. But there's the time change, so maybe it was too early. And a bit later he went outside and barfed up some grass (and then tried to eat more grass.) I put a little yogurt in his bowl as an incentive and he seemed to pick up a kibble, suck the yogurt off, and drop the kibble. He did that for a while and while he did eat some kibble, not much.

 

To get the panacur in him tonight, I'm planning on giving him just a half cup of kibble or so, soaked to soften, mixed with olewo carrots, yogurt and the panacur. Hopefully with a mush, he'll just eat it. Then if he eats that, I'll give him the rest of his kibble--usually 2 more cups.

 

For 2 meals, I had added a half cup of IAMS because I was going to switch foods, but he was acting weird, and then I didn't want to introduce another variable, so decided to stop. That was Friday night/Saturday morning and he didn't even eat it all. Today is Monday, so that was 3 meals ago.

 

So I guess two questions:

--when should I start worrying if he's really not eating. I do think he may graze more on his breakfast.

--is it a problem if he grazes? Our little dog has always "free fed". She never ate on demand, so we just left her bowl out for her. I've heard of some greyhound owners who say their hounds free feed. I've also heard it's bad, but I'm thinking if I don't just keep refilling the bowl (like we do for our little dog--we really don't keep track of what she eats), then it's fine. For him, I would fill it twice a day and not more.

[XTRAWLD]

One day is nothing to worry about, but it's good you are taking note. He might not be hungry, but there could be underlying issues. We already know he's got things wriggling in his body, give him the benefit of the doubt for feeling pretty icky right now. Your pup is also brand new. 2 weeks.....he's still settling in. It might not help that you are leaving kibble out for him throughout the day. When you say grazing.....this means that you might be free feeding? Giving him meals for brekkie and dinner that must be eaten or you take it away would be better if the Panacur requires a meal. If he grazes you are already creating an issue and he's only eating a little bit at a time when he's hungry.

[cgs]

What exactly is wrong with free feeding? I've read that it's bad, but I don't know why. I'm assuming it's partly because they'll overeat, but if you "free feed" by leaving the "right" amount of food in the bowl in the morning, then tossing whatever's left and giving the right amount in the evening, is that a problem?

 

For medicine I can mix it with something extra yummy--I may get a little canned food for that--and make sure he eats it before giving him his kibble.

[XTRAWLD]

When my first grey was solo, I free fed him. He was never a big food hound so I didn't have to worry about him getting fat and was only concerned with making sure he ate at least what he should during a day. With 2 dogs in the picture, the dynamics changed and my now new very food motivated hound would not only clean his bowl, but also clean the free feeders bowl. That forced me to move to a feeding routine. Your little dog doesn't eat his food or vise versa? There are lots of people on here who do both and yes there are pros and cons for both. I feel however that if medicine requires to be given with a meal, that you don't free feed during this time. It just sounds like you were at a scheduled feeding and now are moving to free feeding and the dog has only been with you for 2 weeks. Lots of changes happening..... They also come from a place with scheduled feeding. Just seems like you've got a lot going on at the same time.

Edited March 12, 2018 by XTRAWLD

[greysmom]

There's nothing exactly "wrong" so much as feeding meals just seems to be better. Lots of people do free feed successfully, but you've already listed some of the issues with it.

 

You have less control over what he eats, when. So if you need to give him medication or have him eat a specific amount for whatever reason, your dog isn't used to just standing there and eating.

 

You don't know for sure if your dog is hungry, or has a stomach upset, or has some other issue regarding digestion.

 

You actually waste expensive food if you end up throwing a lot away every day.

 

It's hard to free feed in a multi dog household, as there's always one who eats it all!

 

Feeding twice a day is what they've been used to their whole lives. They do well with it and generally do better on a set schedule.

 

It's not any more or less work to feed meals - unless you have a dog who is a picky eater. Then it's a bit more difficult because you can't leave a bunch of extras like yogurt or canned food sitting out all day. With a picky eater or a dog who is having a medical issue like yours I usually don't like to put the medication *on* the food - they always know it's there, and you don't want them to not want to eat even more because they don't want the medication. I'll either pill them, or squirt liquid medications in separately from their eating - after they've eaten enough so it won't upset their stomach.

[cgs]

Percy has tried to eat some of little dog's (Lulu) food, but I tell him no, and it's the same food and not much of it anyway. Lulu has tried to eat Percy's food, but I tell her no, and his is on a raised stand, so it's harder for her to get. I let her clean up the kibble he's dropped, so I'm probably sending mixed messages there. But mostly she doesn't eat that much, so isn't eating his. I have been picking up her bowl if she doesn't eat it, but I leave his, and she doesn't really bother it.

 

I wasn't trying to free feed Percy--just leaving his food out until he eats it. It's now early afternoon and he has eaten most of his breakfast, but not all. I guess I worry that if I pick up his bowl and he hasn't eaten much, he's going to be malnourished. I'm also sort of assuming that if I pick it up, he'll ask for it later--whine, etc. Should I not give it to him, so that I teach him to eat all at once?

 

Free feeding, once we're through the medical issues, would be nice. I do find it easier because then you don't have a dog that expects meals at a certain time. I have friends who will ask me to go to their house at 5pm and feed the dog because they won't be home until 8. We don't have that problem. However, with the olewo carrots, I do need to have him eat, so it gets in his system and they get dried out if they don't get eaten.

[XTRAWLD]

If he misses a meal, I guarantee you he won't be malnourished. How many times have you skipped a meal if you just weren't hungry? Same deal.

[juliemac]

My friend uses the olewo carrots as an 'after dinner' treat (after dinner is in quotes because she does free-feed her 2 hounds). You might like that model, so the carrots don't get dried out.

 

Many of my new dogs eat more in the first few weeks in my home than they do after they've settled in (exceptions: dogs that were rehomed or fostered and dogs that were highly stressed when they came to me so they didn't eat much of anything). Of course, I don't think that the tapering of food happened in the first month, so that's probably not what's going on for your pup.

 

If your pup is eating grass (and regurgitating), then they probably have an upset tummy for some reason. The deworming meds can cause that, but so can a lot of other things. Watch for lethargy, ~3d of not eating, irregular potty issues (blood in anything, for example) or disinterest in yummy treats (piece of chicken, for example).

 

Enjoy your new family member!!

[cgs]

I'm not really worried about him being malnourished from skipping one meal. More that if he only nibbles at breakfast and isn't eating much at dinner,he won't get enough. And with the worms, I do worry that if he's not eating, he'll lose too much weight. His racing weight was 71lbs and he was 66 at the vet. He needs to go back in 2-4 weeks for a second lyme vaccine, so I'll weigh him again then.

 

So they eat grass for upset tummy?

 

I think tomorrow at breakfast, I'll leave it out for an hour or so, and then pick it up.

[cgs]

Oh, and about eating each others food, I have a bigger problem with Percy drinking from Lulu's water bowl. I thought they would just share, but she doesn't like drinking from her bowl if he's drank from it. I keep having to empty it and rinse it for her. He has fresh water in his own bowl. *sigh*

[cgs]

Last night I gave him his panacur with 1/2 cup kibble, some yogurt and the olewo carrots. He ate that, but not without a break to go outside. He seems to have a short attention span when it comes to eating. After he finished, I gave him another 1.5 cups of kibble. He ate probably a cup of that. I took it up and at one point he kind of looked for it, but didn't seem to really care.

 

This morning, he showed no interest in breakfast, then he finally nibbled a little bit. It's 9:30 and he's barely eaten. I'm going to give him one more chance (he's upstairs with me now, so not near his food) and then take it up and not give him more until dinner. I am starting to worry about his lack of appetite, but with the worms, the meds--who knows what the problem is.

[GeorgeofNE]

Why would you want to change EVERY possible thing your dog is familiar with?

 

He's used to meals.

 

The 5 minutes twice a day it takes me to feed my dog on a schedule, at meal time, so he knows exactly when it's time to eat, doesn't tax me a lot.

 

Maybe try that?

[cgs]

Why would you want to change EVERY possible thing your dog is familiar with?

 

He's used to meals.

 

The 5 minutes twice a day it takes me to feed my dog on a schedule, at meal time, so he knows exactly when it's time to eat, doesn't tax me a lot.

 

Maybe try that?

 

Why are you accusing me of trying to change every possible thing, when I've said that I didn't set out to free feed and I'm not trying to do that right now. Maybe in a few months, but not now. He simply isn't eating all his food when it's presented to him. Maybe you've never experienced this. With the worms taking some of his nutrients, I am a little worried that if I give him his food and take it up after a half hour or so, and he's only eaten a quarter cup of food, then yeah, it's going to be a problem if he does that day after day. He's eaten his poop twice and I read they'll do that for the nutrients. (He pooped and ate it immediately before I could even get there, so now I'm going outside with him every time instead of just watching from the window to see if there will be something I need to pick up.)

 

I did take up his food yesterday morning and he did a bit better with dinner, but still didn't eat it all. I took that up and he ate breakfast better this morning, but still probably only a cup of kibble and quarter cup of oatmeal. When we first got him, he was eating 2 cups in the morning and 2.5 in the evening and he's 5 lbs below his racing weight, which I know isn't terrible, but I'm worried he's losing more with the worms and not eating. So I'm just trying to get food into him so he doesn't waste away and so he doesn't feel want to eat his worm-infested poop!

[juliemac]

Oh, yeah, I've got my first poop-eater, and it's nasty. And unfortunately, poop-eating probably won't stop after the worms are treated. I'm sure you're aware, but worms in the poop can infest the ground (and then reinfest the dogs at a later time), so picking it up at LEAST daily is important until the deworming is finished.

 

The grass-eating is definitely a sign of upset tummy ... and if you haven't experienced tummy gurgles yet, you might want to pick up some gas-x (because paint-peeling gas always follows those gurgling sounds). Deworming meds can definitely cause that (and cause the food disinterest).

​It sounds like you've got a good strategy with the 1/2c kibble, yogurt & olewo carrots with his meds. My boy Riley only liked Peach yogurt (and really resisted olewo carrots), and so your 'treats' may not be yummy enough to overcome the tummy upset. See if yummier treats work (a teaspoon of peanut butter, a tablespoon of leftover chicken or hamburger, or small pieces of ham) - he can afford the extra calories for the duration of the deworming protocols. You could also try adding some broth (chicken, beef, bone) to the kibble/carrots ... that may add enough flavor to peak his interest.

 

Hope you find something that works. Seeing your pup lose weight when you're not trying to is always hard.

[cgs]

I'm hopeful he's not actually a poop eater and that he just did it those two times because he hadn't eaten enough food.

 

Last night I mixed his panacur with just yogurt and carrots, no oatmeal. He ate that all instantly and then I gave him kibble with oatmeal for dinner, which he ate most of. I'm doling out the kibble slowly so I don't end up throwing it away. If he eats the first half cup, I'll add another half cup. I think last night he ate most of 1.5 cups of kibble and 1/2 cup of oatmeal, so that at least seemed like a decent intake of food.

 

This morning he picked at breakfast again, eating mostly the oatmeal, but eventually ate close to a cup of kibble. I had to go out, so he was crated, so I left his food available until 10 instead of picking it up sooner.

[NewGrey2017]

I'm reading through this and wondering is he eating mostly soft food and leaving all the hard food? If so, could it be a toothache?

[cgs]

He was eating all his kibble when we first got him--gobbling down 2.5 cups in the evening, so I don't think it's that. I'm going to have his teeth cleaned once we're through the worm meds. He does like the oatmeal though. This morning he ate 1/2 cup oatmeal and about a cup of kibble, but the oatmeal was gone first. He ate his food in a reasonable time I guess, but still takes breaks--goes outside, goes to lie down, etc. Then goes back to it, but ate it all more or less in an hour or so. His poop output has been much less since adding oatmeal. He hasn't eaten any more poop.

[cgs]

I gave him more kibble because he had finished and was looking for more. He pooped much more so far today, like 4 times by noon. So I think the kibble (high protein level) makes him go more. Less kibble and more oatmeal seems to produce less poop. I'm going to get some Kirkland food and start introducing that in.

[Remolacha]

The parasites and/or the meds for the parasites are probably messing with his appetite. I have noticed when any of my dogs are feeling off it is almost always breakfast that they don't finish or skip entirely. A few missed meals won't hurt him, as you have figured out. I give them a few minutes after they walk away, then pick it up. I feed raw, so leaving it out is not an option. All that said, some dogs are just grazers, rather than inhalers If free feeding doesn't work for you, just pick up his food after a set amount of time, he will learn to eat faster but once he feels better, he will probably go back to his regular eating.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Remolacha

[cgs]

Yeah, today he had a pretty good breakfast, but for dinner just at the oatmeal and a little kibble. I took up his bowl and will try again in an hour. He's definitely not an inhaler. Even when he eats, it's like he has attention issues--takes a bite or two, does a couple laps around the kitchen, gets more, goes outside to pee, eats a bit more....

[cgs]

Every day is different, but he seems to have his appetite back. He's no longer interested in oatmeal and is mostly rejecting the olewo carrots. He's eating all or most of his kibble and sometimes eats it mostly at once. Other times he still grazes over an hour or so, but he's usually finishing up rather than just eating a little and maybe wanting more hours later. I've mostly taken it up if he doesn't finish in a reasonable amount of time. He's off medicine for now and will do another round in 2 weeks, so I guess I won't be surprised if his appetite diminishes again.

[cgs]

Gobbled down breakfast and dinner today. I guess he just wasn't that hungry/had upset stomach on the days he was grazing.