Ccd, Aka Doggie Dementia, Aka Getting Old :p

[NeylasMom]

Just curious, for anyone whose dog has had CCD, were there more subtle signs early on that you maybe only realized in retrospect were the start of CCD?

 

Or for those with dogs who didn't actually have CCD, but did show signs of mental wear & tear for lack of a better term as they aged, what did you notice first?

 

Zuri is 11 & 1/2 and still doing quite well, but there are some slight changes that make me wonder if we're headed in that direction. Just want to educate myself a bit so I know what to look for. I should add, he is also losing his vision - the vet reported lens thickening, especially in his left eye, so that could be part of it as well.

[Roo]

Daisy my recently adopted rat terrier-thing has some "quirks" I'm keeping an eye on:

 

She forgets things. I was sitting in the living room doing a puzzle last weekend and she came in, got some pets, and left. Then she was pacing around the other room nervously, acting all weird and unsure and like she was looking for me, so mom brought her in to see me and she got so excited like it was the first time she'd seen me in a while. She'll sniff and sniff to potty and then when she finds the perfect spot, she'll just stop and look around like "What am I doing here?" She checks her bowl every few minutes right after she's eaten, and this could be a dog who forgets she just ate and the bowl is empty, or a dog just being a dog and hoping for more food to appear. But yeah, she'll lose me in the house every once in a while and someone either has to bring her to me or tell me that she forgot where I was so I can go get her

 

She's easily disturbed by any change in her schedule, to the point where she's nearly impossible to live with on the weekends (she gets very nervous and unsure about everything and paces and stares all day...The fact that the humans are home all day really seems to mess with her, even if I crate her during the day when she'd normally be crated). She startles amazingly easy at everything. Touch her without her expecting it? Startled. Touch her while she's looking directly at you? Startled. Walk her in the woods with absolutely nothing else around? She'll find something about it startling. Move quietly when she's in her bed and I'm sitting on the sofa? Startled. She's also super nervous when she's outside. Ears pinned really high up on her head, wide eyes, etc. Poor dog... But she has to go outside!

 

She doesn't seem to understand doors anymore. When she's waiting for me to open a door, she stands either in the middle of the door or facing the hinges, and then gets really confused when it starts to open.

 

She's gotten stuck in corners a couple times, but not too often yet. One time I went down the hall and closed the door behind me, and dad said that she stared at the hinges in the corner, waiting for me to return. Not sure if that's being stuck in a corner or forgetting how doors work, but either way...

 

She stares at seemingly nothing. She'll just plop down in the middle of the room and...stare. At the sofa, at the wall, at nothing in particular. Just stares. She's not looking around the room, she's just sitting statue-still, staring.

 

She doesn't always make it into her slumberball, and sometimes she makes it TOO far into her slumberball and rolls out the other side. I'll admit it, I laugh (then pet her and coax her back to the middle).

 

This is the site that I got the list of symptoms from. (Weirdly enough, the dog in the pictures looks almost exactly like Daisy.) I had noticed all of the above weird things within two weeks after I adopted her, so I googled it. Turns out most of her symptoms are spot-on for CCD. We now joke that we're a nursing home.

 

ETA: I sent you a message yesterday asking about L-theanine for this particular reason... Well, partly. She just gets so nervous on the weekends when her schedule is disrupted that I was wondering if something to calm the nerves would be beneficial. I obviously can't (and wouldn't want to!) go to work on the weekends just so her schedule stays the same from day to day...

Edited January 5, 2016 by Roo

[NeylasMom]

Sorry, I don't check my GT messages often and I'm not on a computer today. I'll answer tomorrow when I'm in the office. Thanks for the info on Daisy.

[Guest k9soul]

Earlier signs for Tasha (non-grey) was she seemed more restless, would get up and wander around at night when before she slept all the way through. She also got more clingy towards me and anxious if I got out of sight. For her, things progressed gradually over a couple of years until she was really in a bad state before she passed. Her pacing and restlessness got to be nearly constant and times of just being able to relax and sleep became very sparse for her. It was her mental state, more than her physical, that told me it was time to let her go.

Edited January 5, 2016 by k9soul

[DesiRayMom]

Skeeter got really clingy, did the door thing, too. Poked his nose in the hinge side & then glared at me like I rehung the door just to mess with him.

He used to love going in the car......then the car became the scariest thing ever.

[greysmom]

I haven't actually read this book yet, but it was recommended by a trainer/dog person I have confidence in.

 

Remember me? Loving And Caring For A Dog With Canine Cognitive Disfunction

Eileen Anderson

 

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B018224Y5Y?keywords=Remember%20me%3F&qid=1452037980&ref_=sr_1_5&sr=8-5

Edited January 5, 2016 by greysmom

[cleptogrey]

Earlier signs for Tasha (non-grey) was she seemed more restless, would get up and wander around at night when before she slept all the way through. She also got more clingy towards me and anxious if I got out of sight. For her, things progressed gradually over a couple of years until she was really in a bad state before she passed. Her pacing and restlessness got to be nearly constant and times of just being able to relax and sleep became very sparse for her. It was her mental state, more than her physical, that told me it was time to let her go.

that sounds like willie wonka. he first started showing confusion when i boarded him at the vet. willie had LP and we couldn't take him camping during the summer, so off to the vet who keeps his boarding kennels ice cold. i was told that every time he was let out he couldn't find the way out and that dog was boarded there forever. also his vision and hearing was going. willie started to confuse his days and nights as well. he had always LOVED his crate and couldn't stand being crated anymore when the dementia started to kick in big time. he couldn't even stand being contained in the kitchen. he started to mark and pee on his bed every time he went to lie down and paced all the time. a couple of weeks of trying sedatives, so he would sleep and no success and a good friend who is a vet told me that he was in a constant state of panic and fear led to his demise. up until the end he barked at cats and went after soccer balls, but when he wasn't doing that he was a mess.

 

when your sleep diminishes it's usually a signal that your dog is stressed. not all dogs go thru this, non should. but life ain't so fair.

[winnie]

Although never diagnosed, we believe Bonny had CCD. She'd randomly stare. She'd also bark at air. Barking was pretty constant. We'd make light of it by asking if Timmy fell down the well, where was Timmy, etc. (Lassie references). She was also restless and would wander. Still as sweet as could be though.

 

Darcy had always been good about giving warnings to the other dogs when they got in her space. Bonny no longer seemed to heed those warnings. We're pretty sure she accidentally stepped on Darcy when she got bit.

 

Bonny was 13 years 7 months when she left us on 5/8/15. Symptoms probably started about a year earlier.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2016 by winnie

[NeylasMom]

I haven't actually read this book yet, but it was recommended by a trainer/dog person I have confidence in.

 

Remember me? Loving And Caring For A Dog With Canine Cognitive Disfunction

Eileen Anderson

 

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B018224Y5Y?keywords=Remember%20me%3F&qid=1452037980&ref_=sr_1_5&sr=8-5

Was it me, or another dog trainer? I wouldn't presume you have confidence in me but I did post about it here.

 

It's on my list, but I don't have any sort of e-reader device so I haven't figured out what to do about that yet.

[greysmom]

Was it me, or another dog trainer? I wouldn't presume you have confidence in me but I did post about it here.

 

It's on my list, but I don't have any sort of e-reader device so I haven't figured out what to do about that yet.

 

It probably was!

 

You can download the Kindle app to any smartphone (or tablet) for free. It's surprisingly usable in that format.

[NeylasMom]

I've done that, but I just find my phone too small for reading. Even though I have a giant LG G3. I may just end up printing it, a chapter at a time.

[dante2zoe]

My whippet had doggie dementia. He was quite restless at night and would get very distressed at dusk (sundowners). He was clingier, too. There was a list of 10 things that pointed to canine cognitive dysfunction (I forget what it contained) and he had more than half. At the advice of my vet, I started him on Cholodin, which did seem to help. I also had timers for the house so it never got dark or shadowy before I got home from work and I put up nightlights in the halls. Otherwise, he would pace and circle and get lost in the house. He would also get stuck in corners. It is very painful to watch, but those adaptations helped.

 

Good luck with your boy

[Roo]

I forgot about restlessness at night being a symptom... Daisy was fine for the first two days I had her - I guess she was just absolutely exhausted from the big change of shelter to home. But the third night, she wouldn't settle. The fourth night, she REALLY wouldn't settle - I don't think I slept much that night. I crated her the fifth night and she tried to pace in the crate but quickly realized she was contained and settled down - I think it helped her brain to relax knowing there was nowhere for her to go. Now she's crated at night and when I'm out of the house and she likes it - I think, much like with greyhounds, it makes her feel safer. But when it gets dark, she gets antsy. She'll pace all evening sometimes (usually on weekends when we've disrupted her schedule) - from her bed to the kitchen and back. She lays on her bed and stares at me nervously - if I so much as shift position to get more comfortable, she's up and sticking her nose in my face like "Hey - you alive? You still here? Hello?" She's alright during the day but when it hits like 3:30 or 4, she starts getting weird. Then she'll eat a little dinner and relax for a few minutes, then it's right back to being stuck in her nervous state until it's bed time.

 

She also tends to be OCD about things, and I don't know if it's compulsion or if her brain just gets lost in it. She'll lick herself as part of a normal grooming routine, then she'll ... just keep licking. And licking. Sometimes for half an hour. The only way to stop her is to clap really loudly and startle her, but I feel bad doing this. I've tried petting her to get her attention off the licking and she'll look up with a glazed-over expression and then go right back to licking

 

But yeah, she's really restless and unsettled at night.

[NeylasMom]

Yeah, so this thread is not making me feel good about the future. However, I don't think Z has obvious signs of actual CCD so that's good. He did start some stress related water drinking though aside from a brief, recent relapse we seem to have that handled, but his SA behavior seems to be a bit worse, and then occassional he will do things like bark when I'm in the shower, or just stand for a minute rather than laying down (but that could also be his LS).

 

Anyway, I thought it's probably worth mentioning in this thread for anyone dealing with this currently that the folks who make the Adaptil products make a supplement to help senior dogs called Senilife. Their products are actually backed by scientific research so I feel good recommending them and the Amazon reviews are fantastic. So in case it's useful:

Ceva Sante Animale Senilife XL for Elderly Dogs (30 Caps) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0027RDGCS/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_TbtJwbTDDS2Y0

[Guest k9soul]

that sounds like willie wonka. he first started showing confusion when i boarded him at the vet. willie had LP and we couldn't take him camping during the summer, so off to the vet who keeps his boarding kennels ice cold. i was told that every time he was let out he couldn't find the way out and that dog was boarded there forever. also his vision and hearing was going. willie started to confuse his days and nights as well. he had always LOVED his crate and couldn't stand being crated anymore when the dementia started to kick in big time. he couldn't even stand being contained in the kitchen. he started to mark and pee on his bed every time he went to lie down and paced all the time. a couple of weeks of trying sedatives, so he would sleep and no success and a good friend who is a vet told me that he was in a constant state of panic and fear led to his demise. up until the end he barked at cats and went after soccer balls, but when he wasn't doing that he was a mess.

 

when your sleep diminishes it's usually a signal that your dog is stressed. not all dogs go thru this, non should. but life ain't so fair.

 

Yes, sounds very familiar . I'd try to barricade Tasha or crate her at times because she was upsetting the other dogs by wandering over to them constantly and hanging over them and then pacing. When I did she seemed to get particularly stressed out and pace in circles. Rudy actually went after her a few times, one time tearing off the tip of her ear. Even my lab mix who grew up with her and was very close to her got to where she was growling when Tasha approached her. This was all in the last six months or so of her life. I also did try anti-anxiety meds and sedatives, but they didn't stop her restlessness and instead she would walk drunkenly into walls and get lost in corners or fall down the two deck steps because her coordination was so impaired by the sedative. It was awful, yet so hard to make the final decision because she still enjoyed her meals and still even ran and played a bit at times.

 

It didn't really become obvious until she was 14, and from that point was a gradual decline for her. At 15-1/2, I let her go because she just couldn't have any kind of peace or quality of life, she barely slept (and neither did I). She was always a more anxiety-prone and sensitive dog, so I think that played a part in how severe she got.

 

I had another dog, a collie, who was much more laid back and he got CCD too at around 11-12. In his case he was fine, slept a lot, but would get anxious and cry if he woke up and no one was in the room. He seemed confused about where we were until someone came back to the room to get him. Meds did seem to help him some with this. He was much more content overall even with his confusion. So not all cases are as bad as my Tasha girl's was.

[winnie]

I'd try to barricade Tasha or crate her at times because she was upsetting the other dogs by wandering over to them constantly and hanging over them and then pacing. When I did she seemed to get particularly stressed out and pace in circles. Rudy actually went after her a few times, one time tearing off the tip of her ear. Even my lab mix who grew up with her and was very close to her got to where she was growling when Tasha approached her. This was all in the last six months or so of her life.

 

We're pretty sure our Bonny was killed by wandering over to Darcy and hanging over her bed. Looking back now, I do believe Bonny had CCD. I don't believe Darcy had CCD, but she did get more irritable about her space when losing her vision.

 

I would recommend to anyone with multiple dogs to consider separating your dogs as they get older. Our pack had lived together for many years and had always gotten along well. Two super seniors with age related issues is not a good mix.

Edited January 6, 2016 by winnie

[Guest k9soul]

 

We're pretty sure our Bonny was killed by wandering over to Darcy and hanging over her bed. Looking back now, I do believe Bonny had CCD. I don't believe Darcy had CCD, but she did get more irritable about her space when losing her vision.

 

I would recommend to anyone with multiple dogs to consider separating your dogs as they get older. Our pack had lived together for many years and had always gotten along well. Two super seniors with age related issues is not a good mix.

 

That could really explain why Bonny was attacked. Rudy has never gone after other dogs the way he was going after Tasha, even when they walk by his bed. Even when they startle him he just snarls/barks but doesn't attack them. I just think some primal instinct might kick in for some dogs when they sense such a weakness, that instinctively it's a sort of threat to their own survival. It's not pleasant to think about but it's very important to keep in mind. Though I don't feel any resentment or blame towards Rudy, I still feel horrible guilt over what Tash having to go through that pain and fear because I didn't keep vigilant enough and keep her safer.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

My whippet had doggie dementia. He was quite restless at night and would get very distressed at dusk (sundowners). He was clingier, too. There was a list of 10 things that pointed to canine cognitive dysfunction (I forget what it contained) and he had more than half. At the advice of my vet, I started him on Cholodin, which did seem to help. I also had timers for the house so it never got dark or shadowy before I got home from work and I put up nightlights in the halls. Otherwise, he would pace and circle and get lost in the house. He would also get stuck in corners. It is very painful to watch, but those adaptations helped.

 

Good luck with your boy

Now this is how my Leia was acting when she was around 10 1/2. I had the checklist from Tufts Vet School and Leia had more then half of the symptoms. I jumped the gun and had the vet start her on that drug, forget the name, that is prescribe for CCD. It seemed to do nothing so I went backwards and started to have her tested. We did xrays, saw an internist and caridologist and had ultrasounds,,and nothing was found. Sounded more like CCD now. Basically the theory is if you eliminate everything else, this is what you're eft with.

 

Finally went to the neurologist. He did a few tests and said there was no way, didn't need a brain scan. His words were "this is probably just how your dog is going to be in old age. If she starts waling into walls or gets stuck in corners, come back to me."

 

I had trouble with her eating, she did the sundowner thing, but wasn't officially a CCD dog. We found that Valium helped when the sundowner started so she got a script for that. She took pills for her kidneys, pills for her digestion.

 

But the weirdest part is,,,now as 12 3/4 she seems healthier then she was at 11 1/2. Over the last 5 months she started to not need pills. The only thing she needs is when it gets dark, she likes to sit outside in the yard and come in and out when she wants. Then when I close the door at 11 she gave in and went to sleep. She isn't on any pills anymore but 1 Pepcid AC in the morning. I do give her Cholodin but I don't know if that is really what keeps her going or not,,but it it works I am not fixing it.

[Roo]

Daisy has lost me before, but not as bad as she did tonight. She followed me halfway out of the room then got confused and went back. I got busy in the kitchen and usually she's sidling around right behind me, so when I realized a few minutes later that I was alone (the horror!) I went looking. She was standing in the middle of her bed, staring forlornly off into space as if to say "Woe is me". I called her and she came running over as if I'd just returned from the Odyssey. She was So. Happy. to see me and it was like she really thought I was just...gone. Never seen her quite so excited to see me. Poor dear.

 

But yeah, that's definitely a symptom.