I Brought His Biggest Fear Into His Safe House

[Guest k9soul]

Probably much more than anyone wanted to read from me, but there's my two cents fwiw.

 

Nope! I can never get enough reading about these subjects. Absolutely fascinated in dog behavior, psychology and training. I agree with the methods you and Giselle advocate 100%. These methods are backed by good science, not assumptions and guesswork.

[zoesmommy]

Give it a rest guys!

 

I did a few responses back....remember I said some techniques work better for some dogs and some work for others.

 

Some people have just got to be right about everything! Jeeez--Louise!

 

Zoe is doing just fine and making progress too with so called "flooding" and is not flipping out. Actually she's calmer but it is still taking time. Like you said S-L-O-W-L-Y.

She is at peace, loves me, happy and learning how to deal with kids and is making progress.

 

See BOTH techniques can work.

 

A professional vet/trainer gave me the technique. She's a medical professional with a D.V.M. degree and who worked with Greys.

 

I'm sure your advice as pro dog trainers is equally valuable. (Let me guess...one of you is a DVM)

 

BOTH are intelligent solutions and angles.

 

Please stop yapping and let this lady make the decision for herself. Don't force the issue!

Would you like somebody "forcing" their point of view in regards to treatment on you if it was your dog.

 

What if it was your kid? Would you so willingly go along with 2 different types of advice (yours and mine) WITHOUT consulting a medical professional or seeking out somebody on your own independently?

 

Again it is case specific; "personality" of the dog and "what is it" exactly this animal is afraid of, etc., etc.

Just like people when you go to a doctor there is no one "generic" cure all for the problem or issue. It is tailor made for YOU and your health and well being and state of mind.

Same with the dog. Ryder's mommy must evaluate IF she wants to check with the vet first or at all, and if so then what? She must then think about how she wants to address his fears and what type of training to pursue and why.

 

Now please don't act like children -- :hahaor should I say puppies--and let it be.

 

Let the lady make her own decisions based on Ryder and what she feels is right for him.

Perhaps she (and possibly her VET) should make decisions based on her, and her dog's personality and overall health?

 

This is an important decision she needs to make alone without us being busy bodies. Get over your selves.

 

When in this case (dog training) a person does not know what direction they want to take and gives no indication of a decision just move on.

 

I did. You need to.

I'm only interested in hearing how Ryder's progress is going

I am not interested in which method she is using or if I "won" because she picked "my way".

 

Now stop it! DOWN! SIT! STAY! Good Girls!

 

As previously mentioned I am rooting for her, her Espresso machine and Ryder. That is what I am interested in hearing about.

[Guest MnMDogs]

Uh... I'm not even sure how to react to that post- aside from suggesting less emoticons if you want anyone to take your post seriously. Other than that, it was quite rude. "Get over yourselves", really? Giselle and Jen are amazingly knowledgable and have been around here a very very long time. Many of us have grown to know and trust them, and truly value their input, and we are interested in their thoughts and suggestions.

Edited December 19, 2013 by MnMDogs

[Guest k9soul]

Well, all I'm going say is I hope with the Thundershirt and some counter-conditioning Ryder is able to de-stress about the new machine. I know I'm miserable if my dog is, and it's certainly hard to see them in distress.

[zoesmommy]

One last thing in regards to Zoe,

 

Her fear is of children....kids!

 

The world is full of them. Sorry gang...red, white,yellow, brown, black and all other mixes, sizes, shapes, etc. It doesn't matter gender, age, socio-economic status.

If we hit the mega billion lotto or live in a tent in a field. There's bound to be children somewhere.

They're playing right outside behind the wall of our back yard.

They're next door.

The play across the street.

They ride their bikes, scooters and skate boards on the sidewalks and streets.

 

With my dog specifically....there is no other way to do "deal"/train her to "get over it" than what I am doing according to professionals--my current Vet; former vet/trainer/shelter worker.

 

Unless I never want to walk the dog, take her to the park, go outside, let her use the yard, take her to the vet's office (there's a dance/gymnastic studio and a grocery store in the same plaza), have no friends over(they have kids) and live in a monastery or confine the dog to the house with no physical exercise and use pee-pee pads for the rest of her life.....

 

Sorry gang....she's going outside for walks. She gets very short leash or walked by the collar until her panic stops and until she can "walk nice" on her leash and not panic whenever she sees a kid. She then gets treats, hugs, kisses more leash and we continue. Little by little she gets better. S-L-O-W-L-Y.

 

She's getting better. The kids pet her now. Before she would try to bolt. Now she tolerates it.

She's learning they are not there to hurt her.

Playing and "yelling" noises are not them terrorizing her especially when she sees this with her own 2 eyes.

When she sniffs bicycles and skate boards there's no "odor". They're not alive. They won't eat her.

My husband and I "play ball" in the back yard and yell and carry on while we do so.

See, mommy and daddy are playing with the ball...it isn't hurting them.

The ball is in the back yard. It has been there all day. It hasn't hurt me.

She's S-L-O-W-L-Y connecting the dots.

She's walking better and better on the leash.

 

Hey, unless somebody can rid my neighborhood of all of the kids for the next 7 years let me know.

(There's about 4 that I personally wouldn't mind you getting rid of for me :} )

[zoesmommy]

Uh...not sure how I'm going to react to lack of response to diplomacy (i.e.; BOTH sides work,).

Some people don't get subtle like , "perhaps we should let the dog owner make the decisions about her own dog". Also seems blunt doesn't work either," Give it a rest guys",

and many, many other examples and I believe 2 attempts especially " When a person does not know what direction they want to take and gives no indication of a decision then just move on. I did."

 

Humor also seem to whiz past you faster than a speeding Greyhound.

Whit is a form of intelligence.

 

If you don't catch the irony of the emotion icons used then we can freely draw the obvious conclusion you do not have much of a sense of humor or intellect.

My "smart" attempts at using the funny in order to diffuse a tense situation and not escalate a problem was completely lost on you.

 

Perhaps I will try something more Sophomoric next time to equate your reading and comprehension abilities.

 

Anybody else reading these e.-mails will see that I have made numerous attempts to be fair/kind/ and not escalate an argument.

 

Now for those of us with reasonable intelligence it is very hard to respect you or take you seriously as dog training professionals when you can not obey simple commands such as "Quit it! Stop it!, Enough! Let somebody make their own decision! Both sides have merit! The woman has not made a decision and has not said she specifically wants you to tell her what to do.

 

I do not want to hear anymore jabbering. Grow up."

This is not high school. There is no, "We're your friends...not her." WE'RE all friends. We have all shared our opinions. End it.

This is the 3rd time I have had to address adults to act like adults not children.

 

Since you have not responded to the former "positive reinforcement" techniques of humor and diplomacy, polite words and nicely turned phrases, I will try some negative reinforcement.

 

In my opinion you cannot control your inappropriate behavior.

You can not help your self but to be combative and argumentative

You do not respond well to "positive" reinforcement.

You can not train your self how to avoid a fight.

You have strong dominance issues.

In my opinion your credentials as a trainer/behaviorist are suspect.

I have no regards for your recommendations and less for you as a professional based upon these reasons.

 

Now are we done?

Thank you

[kamsmom]

Where is the popcorn when I need it!

[Guest k9soul]

Now are we done?

Thank you

 

Hoping so.

[NeylasMom]

What the hell?!

Where is the popcorn when I need it!

Please pass me some when you find it!

[NeylasMom]

To the OP, despite all of this nonsense, I sincerely hope you find a solution that works for you. I'm with K9soul, it's really difficult to see our pups in such distress. I was there today with my traumatized galgo foster during her vet visit and my stress levels were through the roof so I do feel your pain.

[ZoomDoggy]

Take the last (crazy) train to Locksville, and I'll meet you at the station...

 

Hope the OP was able to glean the reasonable advice from the... rest. Good luck!

[philospher77]

I'm curious as to whether the Thundershirt made a difference. I tried it on Katie and didn't see one, but the idea apparently works on like 64% of autistic people, so she could have use been in the other group.

[Trudy]

Um. What the hell happened here?

I'm not sure if I laugh, shake my head or wave my magic wand.

 

 

btw - I made my staff brownies this morning. There were still some left in the kitchen when I left school this evening. It's not popcorn, but it's better

[kamsmom]

I love brownies. No nuts though

[Trudy]

Oh hell no. I love some types of edible nuts, but not in cookies, cakes, brownies or in my chocolate. They are ok if covering chicken now and again though.

[kamsmom]

[XTRAWLD]

Wow, I leave this thread alone for a couple of days and .... wow. I just wanted to update....

 

So, after skimming much of some other comments within this thread, this is how things are going in my house....

 

Sunday morning, I REALLY wanted an espresso. We did very little training with the thundershirt. He did have it on and off for about 2 days, and the little deer fell asleep in it too! I put it on him when he was up and about after deciding I wanted a cappuccino. No reaction to me getting things ready, he kinda peeked into the kitchen and took a look and noticed me in the corner, and went back on his bed. I flipped the switch on the machine and he started to shake like a leaf. Out of coincidence, hubby decided to take him out for a walk (and I think he didn't want a poop incident either). We hadn't yet done this, so I said ok to take him. I was done by the time he was back, and he settled back down rather quickly, once he was home from a walk. So I'm at least happy that he came back to his normal self faster than he did in the past. Progress? Maybe.

 

I haven't made an espresso since - that is not because I don't want to, I haven't had the time. I think it's actually giving him a good break. It's funny when you know your dog, you can see them coming back into themself. He was beginning to get trepidatious when just standing in the kitchen. I'm very surprised this machine is having this effect on him. I'm also curious if it is emitting a sound that is not agreeing with him, perhaps a high pitched frequency. Interestingly enough, I work for an engineering company specializing in noise, so I am completely tempted to just take a meter home and get a reading on this machine when it is operating! Kasey might not be hearing the sound because he's older and that's why he's not bothered? Actually I think he's just a super laid back boy now that he's 10 and has been subjected to a lot of things in his life.

 

To touch a little bit about some comments within this thread (gee I hope it doesn't get shut down), I have tried the flooding method with Ryder for a few fearful things, and I know which situations it has and hasn't worked. It requires an incredible amount of patience and understanding in your dog. Flooding helped in some situations of fear with him (really worked well with strangers, and to an extent the roofers and construction workers), but not all. In a way, worked with people and not with things or events - I'm thinking it's because he's getting direct positive feedback from a person, as opposed to a neutral or negative feedback from a thing or event, lack of emotional connection of sorts if that makes sense. I know not to continue to push buttons with him, and when he can't handle it. I don't need to break him. This espresso thing isn't something I'm going to practice flooding with. The thundershirt didn't really work per say - but I've only had one real try. However, if it managed to bring him back to normal faster (in combination with a walk) then I'd say it was a win, at least initially.

 

We've had a talk, I think he's still mad at me! He'll come around and we will continue this saga, one cuppa at a time.

The death machine!

The wonderful product!

He was in the kitchen like this during operation! He might look relaxed and happy, but I assure you he was vibrating on the floor.

In the kitchen, but he's in full shutdown mode.

 

We can do it buddy!

Edited December 20, 2013 by XTRAWLD

[cleptogrey]

the fact that he was in the kitchen during the operation is EXCELLENT! slow and steady!!

 

btw, annie who used to hide when the vacuume cleaner was out will step over the vacumme cleaner(it's off when she does that) to get into the house- it didn't happen over night but just the sight of it sent her to the far end of the house or yard!

[Guest MnMDogs]

the fact that he was in the kitchen during the operation is EXCELLENT! slow and steady!!

This also seems like a huge deal to me! I know with Greg, when he's in an extremely fearful/scared state, he runs to his bed in our closet and will not come out. Luckily that happens less and less, but it seems like if Ryder was in the room with the scary machine that has to be a little bit good!

[Guest k9soul]

It seems very promising that you have already had a little bit of progress forward. He's a total cutie.