Separation Anxiety Woes!

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

Hey all! I've been a lurker here for a while. About 2 months ago I brought home my first greyhound, a 2.5 year old red brindle I named Luna. She was in foster for 1 week before I brought her home, and while her foster mom reported no signs of separation anxiety, I was concerned when the first evening I had her, I had to make an emergency trip to Walmart for 10 minutes and I returned to her howling her head off. I had done a ton of reading and research before getting a greyhound, and knew that a percentage of them have some SA upon adoption and that alone training is a must. I started alone training with her after her first weekend home, and was pleasantly surprised that the howling seemed to be a fluke. I downloaded an app for my iPad and iPhone (Presence) that allowed me to use my iPad like a camera and my iPhone like a video monitor. I returned to work, and was thrilled that she slept all day, even roaching in her crate! Things were perfect. I left her alone that weekend for periods of time as well. The following week, everything fell apart. That Monday, she cried/barked/howled on and off for the entire day - LOUDLY. I live in an condo complex where about half the people work during the day, so there are still quite a few people home that I'm sure were disturbed by her. She continued to carry on like that every day for the whole week. On Friday, I came home to find she had pooped in the crate (not explosive diarrhea, luckily) and was just a mess. I spent the weekend searching for a dog sitter, just a short term solution for the last 2 weeks of school (I'm a teacher and have the summer off). I left her at a very nice girl's house every day through the middle of June. During this time, I had several vet appointments and we started her on 50mg Clomipramine (generic for Clomicalm).

 

At present, she has been on the 50mg Clomipramine for a month and has shown no improvement. She still howls, barks, and pants almost continually when left alone (she has not been destructive thus far aside from the single poop incident). It has been very frustrating and stressful as I am unable to go to the store, pool, or for a jog without her becoming extremely agitated. I simply don't go anywhere in the evening anymore because she would be too disruptive for the people living around me. In addition to the meds, I have been doing the following since I brought her home:

 

• Give her a Kong stuffed with bacon/cheese filling, some kibble, and canned pumpkin (which she loves) - she will work on it for about 1 minute after I've left, and then abandons it until I return. She totally ignores the antler chew I also leave for her.
• Leave "Through A Dog's Ear" playing on a continuous loop (have also tried talk radio, country music, other classical, rock...pretty much all genres) - doesn't seem to have an effect.
• Keep her crated with a soft bed and blanket. She's indifferent to stuffed toys. Have tried covering the crate, she just tries to pull the blanket in through the bars trying to see out. Have also tried letting her roam, but she will just stand directly in front of the door and bark, which makes it 10x louder outside the apartment.
• She gets a 30-40 minute walk every morning and she passes out for basically the rest of the day if I don't leave her.
• In the past, we tried tryptophan gel (didn't have any effect) and a DAP diffuser (nothing), and a Thundershirt (made her MORE anxious if anything).

I feel like I'm doing everything I can. I'm talking to the vet later today about maybe increasing her dose of Clomipramine and see if that does anything. The only thing I'm unable to do is get a second dog...I know a lot of people say that's the only thing that helped, but I'm living on my own on a young teacher's salary and while I'm comfortable now, adding a second dog is beyond my means.

 

I guess I'm just looking for anyone to share their own experiences with SA (especially if Clomipramine/Clomicalm worked, and how many mg's) and to give me hope that she will work past this! She is literally the perfect dog otherwise. I love her SO much! Sorry for the super long post...I am just very frustrated and wanted to talk to people who probably understand. Thanks in advance.

 

~Sarah and Luna

 

 

[Batmom]

What kind of alone training exercises are you doing?

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

What kind of alone training exercises are you doing?

 

I don't make a fuss about leaving (I also put shoes on, grab my purse/keys at random during the day). She gets in her crate just fine, starts on her Kong, I leave. After 30-60 seconds she begins whining, and I have not been able to get past 5 minutes before whining escalates into howling. I have tried returning before the howling begins, and also tried letting her "cry it out" but neither option seems to work. When I come back (whether it's been a minute or several hours) I enter quietly, and wait for her to calm down completely before I let her out of the crate. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but from what I've read you're just supposed to gradually increase the length of time you're gone...and that doesn't seem to be working for us. :\

[greysmom]

A short primer on anti anxiety drugs:

 

Like with people, there are three classes of anti-anxiety meds – tricyclic antidepressants (amitriptyline/Elavil, clomipramine/Anafranil/Clomicalm for veterinary use), SSRI’s (Selective Seratonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (like fluoxetine/Prozac and paroxentene/Paxil), and benzodiazepines (alprazolam/Xanax, lorazepam/Ativan, diazepam/Valium). The drug Trazadone has recently become more popular as a treatment for dogs, and everyone I know who has used it has been satisfied with it. It is a different class of AA drug called a Seratonin Agonist Reuptake Inhibitor and appears to have less side effects than other AA drugs in dogs.

 

 

Each one of these drugs works on different areas and chemicals in the brain, and their effectiveness depends on which sort of support your dog’s brain needs. Most vets will begin with Clomicalm since it is specifically marketed for pets, but it isn’t always effective. Most of the time you need to try several to find the one that works the best for your situation. These drugs, except for the benzodiazepines, need some time to build up in the body to a clinically effective level. Sometimes a week to a month. Benzodiazepines take effect within 30 minutes and only last a few hours, so they are better for short-term applications. Some patients also use them until their longer-acting drugs take effect.

 

You must continue alone training and deconditioning along with prescription treatment. The drugs aren't going to automatically make her better, they only help put her brain in a training-receptive state.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your dog is already on an anti-anxiety med, you might consider adding another type of drug for short-term use. My anxious girl is on a daily maintenance dose of Paxil (a SSRI) with the addition of Xanax (a benzodiazepine) for situational anxiety like thunder storms and fireworks. We tried both Clomicalm and Prozac for her with no success.

 

Consider getting in touch with your neighbors and explaining the situation to them, and let them know you are working on finding a solution. Most people will be a little more patient if they know what's going on.

Finally, you may need to consider that your house is not the best situation for this particular dog. Some greyhounds just can't be only dogs no matter how much training or what kind of drugs they're on. Some do just fine and never have any problems being by themselves. If she had other greyhound (or even other dog breed) companions in her foster home, they may not have seen any signs of separation anxiety because she didn't have any. Please contact your adoption group and see what advice they might have.

[Batmom]

Poor bug, and poor worried person!

 

It is possible that she is one of those dogs who will not do well alone.

 

It is also possible that she can learn to do well alone . It does take some time for Clomicalm to become therapeutic, so all is not lost yet.

 

It may be worthwhile to start the training waaaaaay slower. You want her to NOT react anxiously to each step before you move on to the next. For example, if she starts whining when you pick up your purse and keys, you'll want to pick up your purse and keys and put them down over and over and over until she stops reacting to that. Then move on to walk out the door, close it, walk back in again ... over and over and over until she stops reacting to that. Then waiting outside the door for 60 seconds. Et cetera. Obviously you still have to go to work too, but if you can get one or two training sessions in a day, she should start to learn.

 

 

 

 

ETA: I don't do the "over and over and over until she stops reacting" in a single marathon session . I'll do 5-10 times in a row, depending on what it is, then get on with my day. Then when I have a chance later, I'll do 5-10 more times. My goal is to get the dog to be utterly bored with that activity and find it completely insignificant. "Oh god, she's playing with her purse again, I believe I'll go have a nap or work on my Kong."

Edited July 23, 2013 by Batmom

[Jimbuck]

I went through this with my boy for roughly 8 months. I did extensive alone training, behaviorist sessions, desensitizing and finally prescription anxiety meds. I think the biggest thing that helped Freddy (mostly) overcome SA was just time and routine. Our daily routine has, for the most part, remained unchanged since he's come home almost 2 years ago. On weekends I still treat it like a workday and get up early for turnout and big morning walks. When I'm just about ready to go, I open the freezer door and he's bustin' cheeks over to his bed where he receives his Kong. If I forget something and have to come back for any reason, he becomes rather unsettled for most of the day. It's crazy how much he thrives off of routine and structure.

 

Is the crate required? It might be that Luna is just not digging the crate so much. A baby gate or two might be a good next step if your thinking about ditching the crate. The other thing I realized is how well he could pick up on my anxiety and feed off of it. I had months of being scared to leave the house for fear that he would howl and cry all day. Like you, I have neighbors I need to keep happy in my building. The monitoring you have setup was a great aid for me to gauge progress, triggers etc. SA is very tough to deal with but keep at it and things will get better. Eventually Luna will realize that Mommy needs to go to work and earn some kibble money.

 

Another thing to add is it might be worth talking with your neighbors and explaining the situation and that you're working very hard to remedy the issue. Keeping them informed on what is going on might also help ease your mind a bit. My neighbors upstairs complained about Freddy's howling and crying because it sounded like he was being abused and/or neglected. The howling and crying is just absolutely miserable to listen to so I can't blame them. After speaking with them about the situation they now have some invested interest in Freddy and have even offered to watch him while I go out sometimes. They also now realize just how spoiled he is! Good luck and stay positive!

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

Thanks for the insight, guys. My vet recommended trying her at 50mg clomipramine 2x/day and see where that gets us. I want to do everything possible to help her. I don't want her to be so upset when she's alone -- she just sleeps all day if I'm home with her and I wish she'd do that in any circumstance! I would like to eventually leave her out of the crate (babygating isn't really necessary since I have a small condo which, with the bathroom and bedroom doors closed, leaves just the living room and kitchen areas accessible), but she still isn't reliably housetrained for long periods of time -- plus she's perfectly happy in the crate if I'm home. I know she mostly just needs more time and plenty of patience. I haven't gotten complaints from my neighbors yet, but if I do I will definitely fill them in on the situation (just felt that I shouldn't draw attention to the problem until someone actually says something to me). She is such a happy, calm, and sweet dog otherwise that I can't imagine rehoming her at this point. If I have to take her to the dog sitter during the work week I will, but I would so much rather she sleep at my house rather than at someone else's!

[krissy]

I wouldn't wait until someone complains. There's no reason to increase your stress levels by coming home to a letter from management. I'd go directly to any neighbours who might be affected and let them know what's going on. You can even bring a peace offering. When we got Kili she was 8 weeks old. I brought her home from the breeder and put her in her x-pen for bedtime. She proceeded to (like most new puppies on their first night away from their mother and siblings) howl, scream, and launch herself at the top of the pen over and over throughout the night. I hadn't warned my downstairs neighbours that we were getting a puppy (we live in a house and we rent the main floor but someone else rents the basement) so the next evening I baked cookies and left them at their door with a nice note apologizing for the noise explaining that we had a new puppy. They were very nice about the whole thing and thanked me for the delicious cookies. Do not underestimate the power of cookies!

[charbess]

I realize your finances prevent you from getting a second dog but would you be able to foster one for your group? Presumably they pick up the tab until the dog finds a permanent home. This would be a good time to try since you are home.

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

I wouldn't wait until someone complains. There's no reason to increase your stress levels by coming home to a letter from management. I'd go directly to any neighbours who might be affected and let them know what's going on. You can even bring a peace offering. When we got Kili she was 8 weeks old. I brought her home from the breeder and put her in her x-pen for bedtime. She proceeded to (like most new puppies on their first night away from their mother and siblings) howl, scream, and launch herself at the top of the pen over and over throughout the night. I hadn't warned my downstairs neighbours that we were getting a puppy (we live in a house and we rent the main floor but someone else rents the basement) so the next evening I baked cookies and left them at their door with a nice note apologizing for the noise explaining that we had a new puppy. They were very nice about the whole thing and thanked me for the delicious cookies. Do not underestimate the power of cookies!

 

I would definitely like to do this! I know for a fact that you can hear her in the stairways 3 floors below my condo, but I'm not sure who can hear her inside their unit. I don't want people to start straining to hear her, but at the same time I don't want to deal with a formal complaint either! I think I will probably notify the 3 people with units on my floor, and maybe the people who live directly below me. I don't personally know any of them (haven't even seen most of them, to be honest) so it's kind of awkward. But, like you said, cookies = power! Haha.

 

I realize your finances prevent you from getting a second dog but would you be able to foster one for your group? Presumably they pick up the tab until the dog finds a permanent home. This would be a good time to try since you are home.

 

My condo is fairly small and I do not have room for 2 crates. I love the idea of fostering, but I just don't feel prepared to handle another dog right now. And there's no guarantee that the foster wouldn't have SA, either. Plus, if at all possible, I don't want her to *need* another dog around to feel safe. I'm really not trying to shoot down your suggestion, because it's great! but just not an option for me right now.

[greysmom]

The point being some dogs DO need another dog to feel safe, and you really can't train it out of them, no matter how hard you try or how long you try or what medications she's on. Some dogs simply cannot be only dogs.

 

The object of getting another dog - even temporarily - is to see if she is one of these dogs. Do you have a friend or someone in your adoption group who could "loan" you their confident dog for a weekend?? You will know very quickly if this strategy works.

 

It's very rare for two greyhounds living in the same home to BOTH have SA. They're used to living together, so even one other companion is enough to offset the anxiety of being alone.

[GeorgeofNE]

I had the same issue with George (I also live in a condo). As soon as I stopped crating him, the problem went away so completely that my distraught neighbor came over one day almost in tears thinking that I had gotten rid of the dog because she complained!

 

George HATED his crate. Yes, he would go in for me--but within minutes of my departure, he started to howl like a wolf.

 

Got rid of the crate and it was total silence!

 

No drugs, nothing but copious exercise and a DAP diffuser, and he was good to go!

[charbess]

 

I would definitely like to do this! I know for a fact that you can hear her in the stairways 3 floors below my condo, but I'm not sure who can hear her inside their unit. I don't want people to start straining to hear her, but at the same time I don't want to deal with a formal complaint either! I think I will probably notify the 3 people with units on my floor, and maybe the people who live directly below me. I don't personally know any of them (haven't even seen most of them, to be honest) so it's kind of awkward. But, like you said, cookies = power! Haha.

 

 

My condo is fairly small and I do not have room for 2 crates. I love the idea of fostering, but I just don't feel prepared to handle another dog right now. And there's no guarantee that the foster wouldn't have SA, either. Plus, if at all possible, I don't want her to *need* another dog around to feel safe. I'm really not trying to shoot down your suggestion, because it's great! but just not an option for me right now.

Oh Lordy, I never considered the possibility of stereo howling...you are right. Maybe drugs are the way to go right now

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

I had the same issue with George (I also live in a condo). As soon as I stopped crating him, the problem went away so completely that my distraught neighbor came over one day almost in tears thinking that I had gotten rid of the dog because she complained!

 

George HATED his crate. Yes, he would go in for me--but within minutes of my departure, he started to howl like a wolf.

 

Got rid of the crate and it was total silence!

 

No drugs, nothing but copious exercise and a DAP diffuser, and he was good to go!

 

I'm hesitant to ditch the crate at this point because she still rushes out the door to pee immediately upon my return after 6-8 hours...I'm afraid she would go backwards with her housetraining. Also, she stands right at the door and barks if I let her roam, which makes the noise outside even louder. :\

[Guest Marsroving]

They are trained to go potty as soon as they are let out of the crate. Mars would go potty if let out of the crate after 1 hour or 20 minutes or 10 hours. You are dealing with an animal who was ONLY let out of the crate to go to the bathroom or go train. IMO a crate trained dog is not a house trained dog. Dogs do not like messing in their "dens" or living areas unless they absolutely cannot help it I.e. left without a potty break for an unreasonable amount of time, u.t.i., etc. As soon as Mars discovered our house was essentially his new crate he never had any "accidents" and this transition happened very quickly.

 

I suppose I am also very confused by your last sentence. What door is she barking at while roaming? Her crate door or the door to go outside? Do you take her outside as soon as you open her crate, because if not and she's running to the door that goes to outside and barking she's letting you know she needs the bathroom.

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

They are trained to go potty as soon as they are let out of the crate. Mars would go potty if let out of the crate after 1 hour or 20 minutes or 10 hours. You are dealing with an animal who was ONLY let out of the crate to go to the bathroom or go train. IMO a crate trained dog is not a house trained dog. Dogs do not like messing in their "dens" or living areas unless they absolutely cannot help it I.e. left without a potty break for an unreasonable amount of time, u.t.i., etc. As soon as Mars discovered our house was essentially his new crate he never had any "accidents" and this transition happened very quickly.

 

I suppose I am also very confused by your last sentence. What door is she barking at while roaming? Her crate door or the door to go outside? Do you take her outside as soon as you open her crate, because if not and she's running to the door that goes to outside and barking she's letting you know she needs the bathroom.

 

That makes sense. She just seems to pee more than other dogs I've had (she doesn't have any medical issues, have checked for UTI, etc) so I just worry that she isn't fully housetrained to hold it for 8 hours at this point. Maybe in a few more months I will be more confident.

 

If I let her roam when I leave, she barks at the front door to my apartment. I know she does this because I have a nanny cam. I always take her out right before I leave and usually as soon as I get home (I do give her some time to settle down before I take her out of the crate). She never barks at me/the door to go outside if I'm home...she does it purely out of anxiety when I leave.

Edited July 25, 2013 by LunaTheGreyt

[Guest Trammell]

I second the borrowing a dog - to see if she is happier in a home with another dog. There are plenty of dogs happy to be only dogs, and plenty that aren't. If the dog is happier you may determine fostering is actually an easier route than having your dog anxious all of the time. Or, you may need to pay a dog sitter to come at lunch for a short time to let the dog out due to the potty training. This is a short term expense to determine if the dog is ok not being crated. My grey hated the crate, but once let out she was fine. I am all for dogs being able to hold it during a normal work day (well, I don't think my little dogs could hold it - but they have a litter box for emergencies), however potty training is a special circumstance. You are making concessions in your life that you don't want to already, and spending money on vet bills and meds, you might want to try these other options that seem more than inconvenient and expensive as well. You obviously want what is best for your pup, and really the companionship of another dog, or the freedom of not being confined has worked for a lot of people with this same issue.

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

I have installed baby gates in my kitchen, to see if she'll be happier in an open space (while still contained). I'll update when I know whether that made any difference!

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

Baby gating in the kitchen was kind of an epic fail on both our parts. This morning she jogged 3 miles with me, did all her business multiple times before I left, had a toy and a stuffed Kong (which she totally ignored, as usual), and a blanket sprayed with DAP. I had to go to a doctor's appointment this morning and was gone less than two hours. In that time, she tore the curtains off the wall, chewed up the curtain on the door to the balcony, and peed on her super nice Costco bed that can't be put in the wash. Definitely will have to muzzle her next time....totally didn't expect her to be destructive because she has never displayed that behavior before! The muzzle she came with was broken when I adopted her (it's still wearable but I'm not sure it's 100% functional), so I'm not sure if I'll be able to attempt the baby gate thing again before I can buy a new one. She's only been on the higher dose of Clomipramine for 2 days so it's still too early to tell if that will help.

 

To those who suggested I try her with another dog, her anxiety is still there when I leave her with my parents' three dogs, but she is not as vocal as when left totally alone. I'm not convinced that adding a second dog would "cure" her anxiety, and I just can't afford the cost of vet care, food, and supplies for 2 dogs on my current budget. Also, I reviewed my lease and it only allows me to have 1 dog anyway. :\ I so appreciate all the input I've received from this forum. The past 2 months have been simultaneously wonderful and horrible; I just hope I can update with a success story someday!

Edited July 29, 2013 by LunaTheGreyt

[Guest Lochshumans]

Loch did the same thing when we first brought him home, he was fine with his crate when we were there, but despised it the moment we left. We were also told by our adoption agency not to change anything with our non-grey as it was her home first and we followed that, but it did not suit Loch. He was having accidents in his crate and barking, crying, and LOUD screaming (for lack of better terms) all day. We let him out of the crate and no accidents since. He is ust one of those greys that HATED his crate and just wanted to be with his sister, ultimately some need other dogs, they are pact animals afterall.

 

Since a 2nd dog isn't an option, try no crate. We muzzle Loch when we're not home only because he has many puppy -like qualities, such as eating TV and fan remotes. He doesn't seem to mind the muzzle, as long as he's out of the crate and with his sister. Good luck

[Guest Trammell]

I am sorry, what a horrible thing to go through. My Greyhound can't be confined, and honestly if she couldn't see my two other dogs she would do the same types of things. How long has she been with you? I was suggesting to try out another dog just to see if that was the issue, because then you would know what the problem was and if a solution was possible. A dog with SA can't be very happy, and the stress it causes you isn't that great feeling either. Have you talked with the rescue group about possibly getting a different dog? I know you have probably already fallen in love, but what is most important is that both of you are happy. She may be much happier with a different home with other doggies. And you would probably be happier knowing she was happy, and having a hound that does just great being an only dog. There are plenty of those ones out there and there are great families out there for a dog that needs buddies too, so don't let guilt keep you in a situation that isn't good for either of you.

[Guest LunaTheGreyt]

I am sorry, what a horrible thing to go through. My Greyhound can't be confined, and honestly if she couldn't see my two other dogs she would do the same types of things. How long has she been with you? I was suggesting to try out another dog just to see if that was the issue, because then you would know what the problem was and if a solution was possible. A dog with SA can't be very happy, and the stress it causes you isn't that great feeling either. Have you talked with the rescue group about possibly getting a different dog? I know you have probably already fallen in love, but what is most important is that both of you are happy. She may be much happier with a different home with other doggies. And you would probably be happier knowing she was happy, and having a hound that does just great being an only dog. There are plenty of those ones out there and there are great families out there for a dog that needs buddies too, so don't let guilt keep you in a situation that isn't good for either of you.

 

She has shown less anxiety when left alone at my parents' house with their 3 dogs (non-grey). I can't have more than 1 dog in my apartment, so even though she would probably benefit from company if I could afford it, I would be breaking the terms of my lease. :\ Returning her is out of the question at this point...she is so perfect with the exception of the SA. I want to try absolutely EVERYTHING and then some before I'd even consider it an option. I know some people will say I should just get a dog that automatically works for my situation, but unless things get totally out of hand here I don't think I could bear to lose her.

[Guest Trammell]

 

She has shown less anxiety when left alone at my parents' house with their 3 dogs (non-grey). I can't have more than 1 dog in my apartment, so even though she would probably benefit from company if I could afford it, I would be breaking the terms of my lease. :\ Returning her is out of the question at this point...she is so perfect with the exception of the SA. I want to try absolutely EVERYTHING and then some before I'd even consider it an option. I know some people will say I should just get a dog that automatically works for my situation, but unless things get totally out of hand here I don't think I could bear to lose her.

 

I understand I couldn't be without mine either

[Guest mebenz]

I've just been able to get my new guy peeing and pooping on some what of a normal schedule and he's now barking when I leave. He loves his crate (as he sleeps in it some nights on his own even with his second bed beside it in my room) so it shouldn't be the crate. After our 30 minute walk, I gave him his supper, then just went out to the back to have 15 minutes to myself with my neighbour's and he started barking immediately. He wasn't in his crate, so put him in his crate as he was scratching at the door. Luckily my neighbour's are very supportive and close so it's okay I guess for a little bit, but it can't keep happening.

I'm on my own and have to deal with his "statue" issues when walking so I can't possibly get another dog. I would have no room for 2 crates and live in an apartment. That's not an option for me so I can't see having to get a second dog as the only solution or give him back to the adoption agency? That's not going to happen.

 

Since it just started and today was officially the first day he was on his own for most of the day (had to come home because heard him barking on the webcam and my neighoubour's told me too) I need to deal with this immediately. I was told during the few few days that since he was so anxious I had to bond and spend a lot of time with him to form trust, but then people say you have to start alone training, so I'm confused and hopefully didn't mess things up. I've only had him since Friday night so I really hope he stops on his own.

[Guest debster]

@OP: Haven't seen an update from you in a few days. Any improvements? I've got a strict landlord too, so I understand... and finding a place that allows pets in the first place is a miracle.

 

@mebenz: I was told to start alone training immediately. Even if you have to leave your dog in his crate and leave the room for 5 seconds and repeat a few times until he sees it as no big deal, it's a step in the right direction. I believe the goal is to return before the dog starts crying. On days off, I've made up errands to go run (after he got used to being by himself for more than a few minutes). Others with much more experience might say something different. If you don't get many responses, you may want to make a new thread for your separate situation