Trying To Get Muzzle Off (Have Cat)

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

 

More good signs. Gracie truly has not shown much interest AT ALL in the cat (THANK GOD!) but I keep remembering it has only been a week and she has been coming out of her shell a lot. I am relaxed about muzzling during the day as long as I can FULLY supervise, but still muzzling all night. If cat hisses at Gracie, she simply turns around and walks away in the opposite direction, still seemingly unphased. Hoping these are all excellent signs.

 

Might have to splurge on one of those UK muzzles just for the aesthetics of it!! I hate how Graice looks like Hannibal Lecter when she has it on

Edited July 22, 2013 by DMBFiredancer

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

 

And then THIS happened upstairs...both in the hall laying, facing each other. The cat kept her eye on Gracie, but Gracie just minded her own business...just wanted to lay there. Gracie passed the cat without incident and came into my office after that. I am shocked at how good they are together so far...please please please let this continue!!!!!!!!!!!

[Remolacha]

Awesome! Some dogs really do see the cats in their house as just part of the furniture, as it were. Looks like Gracie is one of those! Don't forget, though, when you are walking, it might be a different story. Most dogs differentiate between their house cats and outdoor cats they don't know (still may not be aggressive)

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

Awesome! Some dogs really do see the cats in their house as just part of the furniture, as it were. Looks like Gracie is one of those! Don't forget, though, when you are walking, it might be a different story. Most dogs differentiate between their house cats and outdoor cats they don't know (still may not be aggressive)

 

Thanks for the reminder! I am VERY careful about not letting our cat sneak out the back for this very reason. Our cat has been trying to slip out when we are letting Gracie out (kind of like '**....SHE can go out, but *I* can't??!!!"

We have only encountered outdoor cats just sitting on their property...I don't think Gracie noticed them. But, I notice EVERYTHING!!!!! MUCH more than I EVER have before on walks!!!! Its kind of good for me, too...I'm more aware of things in the neighborhood

[NeylasMom]

I don't think I've seen it mentioned yet - if you're muzzling that much, I would pad the part that rests on the top of her nose with a layer or two of moleskin. It will prevent the plastic from rubbing and creating a sore and may make it more comfortable for her. Just get the sheets of moleskin and cut a square piece then wrap it around the edge.

Edited July 22, 2013 by NeylasMom

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

I don't think I've seen it mentioned yet - if you're muzzling that much, I would pad the part that rests on the top of her nose with a layer or two of moleskin. It will prevent the plastic from rubbing and creating a sore and may make it more comfortable for her. Just get the sheets of moleskin and cut a square piece then wrap it around the edge.

 

Great idea...I have some moleskin here too!

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

From the pics and video you've posted thinks look like they're going very well! By her body language, she's trying to tell the cat that she's no threat. Like how she's looking away in the hallway picture. Keep up the good work!

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

From the pics and video you've posted thinks look like they're going very well! By her body language, she's trying to tell the cat that she's no threat. Like how she's looking away in the hallway picture. Keep up the good work!

 

That's great about her body language - thanks for telling me that!

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

When we got home from the car ride/ walk Grace went to her safe bed, of course, but then I went upstairs and she wanted to come up. Little Miss Béla Cat was at the bottom of the stairs doing her best "Not in my house" stance. Twice, Grace tried to come up the stairs but when she saw Béla Cat standing there, she just walked away and back to her safe bed.

 

The third time she decided to pass Béla Cat.

 

Well, Cat decided to bolt up the stairs this time.

 

Now, a million thoughts ran through my head as Grace started to run up the stairs behind her. Most of them had "oh f*ck" attached. I honestly COULD NOT tell if Grace was chasing the cat or just wanted to get upstairs now that she had the chance.

 

Either way, I let out a sharp "NO!" and she went back downstairs, only to return a few minutes later without incident.

 

In my heart, I do not believe she was truly chasing, but I wasn't about to find out. This was just a reminder that no matter how amazing her behavior towards Béla has been this past week, she is still a dog. And Béla is still a cat.

 

Anyone ever have an incident like that where you just weren't sure WHAT was going on?

[jetcitywoman]

Anyone ever have an incident like that where you just weren't sure WHAT was going on?

 

Absolutely. But relax. As you get to know your new girl's personality and typical behavior you'll be able to read her better. From what you described it sounds to me like she was just running up the stairs behind the cat because she finally could go up, not that she was chasing her. When my dogs chase my cat, they always have their noses down at cat level. When they're running just because and the cat happens to be running in front of them, their heads are up. Subtle clues like that are what you'll eventually pick up on.

 

And then there is the fanciful stuff. Like I can't tell you why, but I swear Ajax calls our cat "little dude".

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

 

Absolutely. But relax. As you get to know your new girl's personality and typical behavior you'll be able to read her better. From what you described it sounds to me like she was just running up the stairs behind the cat because she finally could go up, not that she was chasing her. When my dogs chase my cat, they always have their noses down at cat level. When they're running just because and the cat happens to be running in front of them, their heads are up. Subtle clues like that are what you'll eventually pick up on.

 

And then there is the fanciful stuff. Like I can't tell you why, but I swear Ajax calls our cat "little dude".

 

Thanks for telling me about the head down thing. I will be sure to look out for that the next time. I am trying to relax....it's just so hard! I have a feeling I will look back on this and think, "WHY on earth did I WORRY so much??"

 

I LOVE the fanciful stuff..."little dude?" that's downright adorable! I would bet money that you are 100% correct if you feel that!! How funny!

[ramonaghan]

When we got home from the car ride/ walk Grace went to her safe bed, of course, but then I went upstairs and she wanted to come up. Little Miss Béla Cat was at the bottom of the stairs doing her best "Not in my house" stance. Twice, Grace tried to come up the stairs but when she saw Béla Cat standing there, she just walked away and back to her safe bed.

 

The third time she decided to pass Béla Cat.

 

Well, Cat decided to bolt up the stairs this time.

 

Now, a million thoughts ran through my head as Grace started to run up the stairs behind her. Most of them had "oh f*ck" attached. I honestly COULD NOT tell if Grace was chasing the cat or just wanted to get upstairs now that she had the chance.

 

Either way, I let out a sharp "NO!" and she went back downstairs, only to return a few minutes later without incident.

 

In my heart, I do not believe she was truly chasing, but I wasn't about to find out. This was just a reminder that no matter how amazing her behavior towards Béla has been this past week, she is still a dog. And Béla is still a cat.

 

Anyone ever have an incident like that where you just weren't sure WHAT was going on?

 

I love your posts because it's like you're in my head from 8 months ago when Sweep arrived. . I didn't even know if it was okay to let the cats and Sweep sniff each other or if I should just discourage any interaction at all initially. I was a huge ball of stress for the first two or three weeks (in that regard, you seem like you're doing much better than I!). I too have a gatekeeper cat, Henry, who stood on the stairs giving Sweep the stink-eye until she either retreated or got brave enough to pass him. And I have had similar incidents where I questioned whether Sweep was chasing my scaredy-cat Olive up the stairs or just trying to reach the same destination. Sweep has even play-bowed to them a couple of times ("OMG, what do I do about THAT?"). All evidence here is that Sweep is not interested in eating the cats. Olive now does cat yoga six feet from a sleeping Sweep (never on the same bed, alas). Henry can do the mad-cat-dash right by her bed and she doesn't even lift her head. (Last week he must have sniffed her while she was asleep. She startled slightly, barked once, and went back to sleep. He slunk away in typical offended-cat fashion. Can't get much safer than that, I don't think.) But, like you, I still worry sometimes, and that's okay. I still don't know when or if I'll get comfortable leaving them all loose together when no one's home, but I am leaps and bounds beyond where I started. It's still very early days, and you and Grace (and Béla) have already made great progress. You've got this!

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

 

I love your posts because it's like you're in my head from 8 months ago when Sweep arrived. . I didn't even know if it was okay to let the cats and Sweep sniff each other or if I should just discourage any interaction at all initially. I was a huge ball of stress for the first two or three weeks (in that regard, you seem like you're doing much better than I!). I too have a gatekeeper cat, Henry, who stood on the stairs giving Sweep the stink-eye until she either retreated or got brave enough to pass him. And I have had similar incidents where I questioned whether Sweep was chasing my scaredy-cat Olive up the stairs or just trying to reach the same destination. Sweep has even play-bowed to them a couple of times ("OMG, what do I do about THAT?"). All evidence here is that Sweep is not interested in eating the cats. Olive now does cat yoga six feet from a sleeping Sweep (never on the same bed, alas). Henry can do the mad-cat-dash right by her bed and she doesn't even lift her head. (Last week he must have sniffed her while she was asleep. She startled slightly, barked once, and went back to sleep. He slunk away in typical offended-cat fashion. Can't get much safer than that, I don't think.) But, like you, I still worry sometimes, and that's okay. I still don't know when or if I'll get comfortable leaving them all loose together when no one's home, but I am leaps and bounds beyond where I started. It's still very early days, and you and Grace (and Béla) have already made great progress. You've got this!

 

Sweep, Henry and Olive are inspirations over here! (your cats are gorgeous by the way!) Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your stories and how you felt in the beginning. It really helps me a lot.

At what point (if ever) did you feel comfortable taking sweep's muzzle off at night? Does everyone have the run of the house at night? Bela and Grace do now, but she IS muzzled. No problems so far. Im not sure I could let them loose together without us in the house for a LOOOONNNNG time. I'd be a nervous wreck!

[OwnedBySummer]

Here's an article from my greyhound group which you may find helpful.

 

1. Muzzle your dogs. Give them time, they will calm down with the muzzles on, they are used to wearing muzzles both at the track and kennel, not just for racing either, so give them some time, and get those muzzles on. They are the key to your being able to relax a bit. That being said, it is possible for a dog to injure a cat even with a muzzle on, so you still need to be vigilant if the greyhounds and cats can get at each other.

2. Assess your greyhound's reaction to the cat. Signs of being unworkable include: panting, copious drooling, and persistence. Persistence means that the greyhound will follow the cat anywhere, if the cat walks down the hall and goes into a bedroom and you close the door, the greyhound will either stay at the door, or keep going back to check the door. If your greyhound shows all of these signs or even 2/3, it's possible that he may truly be a high prey greyhound (unusual) and not workable with cats.

If your greyhound shows one of these signs, or stares at the cat, or whimpers a bit, it's likely they are workable. You'll be able to reassess for change each day, and you should see a gradual relaxation of signs going on, rather than an increase in signs of high prey behavior.

3. Move all the furniture away from the walls enough that your cat can get back there if need be. In spite of all your efforts right now to keep them separate, there can be an escape very quickly, and you will need a safe area for the cat to get to where the greyhound can't follow. We had our couch pulled out from the wall for months, just in case.

4. If your hounds are food motivated, before working with them, have a ton of treats at the ready. If they prefer pets, then you can use praise and pets to reward them.

5. When you're ready to start, what you want to do is reward your greyhound every single time they give you the behavior you're looking for. What you're looking for is ignoring the cat. So if the cat comes into the room, on the other side of the baby gate, and your grey looks at him and then looks away, the second he looks away give him his reward. This is positive reinforcement, a popular method of dog training. You're marking that ignoring behavior with a treat and/or praise, and that's the most important thing you can do. Keep doing that as much as you can.

6. For some dogs, positive reinforcement doesn't kick in fast enough, and you have to also do a bit of aversive training. That's a squirt of cold water and the words "no kitty". Again, the second your hound obeys the "no kitty" command, reward him.

7. Repeat, repeat and repeat.

These methods have worked for us very well. The longest we ever had to keep it up was a month. There are a few other tricks you can try, they include reinforcing the cats as alpha, meaning feed the cats first in front of the dogs, but if your greyhound is getting excited around the cats at this point, it's best to wait for some of these other things, and stick to a simple method.

They need to learn to associate ignoring the cat with good things happening, and not ignoring the cat with no rewards whatsoever. Some would say that aversive training will give the reward of attention, even though it's negative attention, but with some hounds, just using positive reinforcement is simply not enough.

Also, don't force introductions, let them handle that in a natural way with their own timing, and try not to pick up the cat in front of the greyhound, that can start some jumping behavior that you don't want.

Edited July 23, 2013 by OwnedBySummer

[ramonaghan]

Sweep, Henry and Olive are inspirations over here! (your cats are gorgeous by the way!) Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your stories and how you felt in the beginning. It really helps me a lot.

At what point (if ever) did you feel comfortable taking sweep's muzzle off at night? Does everyone have the run of the house at night? Bela and Grace do now, but she IS muzzled. No problems so far. Im not sure I could let them loose together without us in the house for a LOOOONNNNG time. I'd be a nervous wreck!

 

Aww, thanks! Bela is a looker too (those eyes!).

 

We retired the muzzle within the first 3 or 4 weeks. The Hannibal Lecter aspect bothered me too, and Sweep also pawed at hers endlessly or rubbed her face on the furniture trying to remove it (that's how I knew about muzzle straps!). She'd been fostered in a cat-free home for five months before coming here, so hadn't ever worn one there as far as I know. Luckily, I work from home, so I just worked from the bedroom where everyone hangs out during the day (usually, cats on our bed, Sweep on hers—layabouts, the lot of 'em!). I watched her like a hawk and made sure I was mindful of where everyone was at any given time. It can be exhausting to be that vigilant all the time, I know, and I can totally relate to your comment that you notice *everything* around you now. When my husband got home from work, I would tell him, "You're on duty now." Thankfully, that feeling subsided after a couple of months and I leave them alone in rooms together all the time now...but still only when we are home.

 

I am also very fortunate in that Sweep has always crated easily. We put her in there with a stuffed kong and some music (maybe Grace would like DMB?) when we leave, and that's where she sleeps at night. After her last potty break at 10, she RUNS upstairs to it, gets her bedtime treat, and conks out for the night. She does not even cry to be let out in the morning and we usually sleep til 7:30. We tried leaving the crate door open for her a couple of weeks ago, actually, and she looked at me like "huh?" and wouldn't lie down until I closed the door! That's also where she retreats during those terrifying thunderstorms; it's her safe place. Our townhouse is very open and challenging to baby-gate, but that's my eventual plan (we're hoping to sell soon and buy Sweep a house with a yard). Who knows if we'll ever get rid of the crate entirely.

 

Sweep's never tried to get on the furniture, so I think that's been helpful for the "reinforcing the cats as alpha" point mentioned above. The cats have the run of the house and furniture at all times. All three animals get plenty of individual attention. Henry's a jealous sort and comes over for pets when I am lovin' on Sweep, but that's easier to manage than vice versa.

 

You are lucky to have found Greytalk so early in your journey! It's such a wealth of information and support.

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

Summer's mom: Thank you for that article. I think I came across your adoption group's site before I adopted when I would endlessly google "greyhounds + cats," "greyhounds getting along with cats," training greyhounds with cats," "Cats + greyhounds" over.... and over..... and OVER! I do remember that article, but it is a GREAT reminder right now to read again, especially the part about rewarding good behavior. Sometimes we get caught up in trying to snag the bad behavior to punish that we forget to praise, praise, praise.....it happens in teaching too, especially when you are tired at the end of the year or right before Christmas break. Reading this was a good wake up call. I was doing rewards in the beginning, but then got laxed for fear I was giving too many treats.

 

Sweep's mom: I am going to use the "you're on duty!" with Craig. Love it! He works a lot and when he's not, he's trying to finish house projects, so I am the main guard, but there are times I do need a break!

I don't feel the need to crate, but luckily our new place is very condusive to gating. I feel comfortable with the setup - Bela's safe room gate upstairs with the little "kitty only" door (although if I keep giving her treats for HER good behavior she may not fit soon! LOL) and a tall gate upstairs at top of stairs. When we're gone, muzzle goes on, cat is upstairs, dog is downstairs.

Night time they both have full run of house with muzzle on. Bela usually sleeps under a bed, so the only time I really worry is when little Miss Grace gets active in the morning and wants to play. Still praying she doesn't ever see Bela as a chase toy! She does love to chase balls.

Good luck finding your dream home hone day with a yard - we waited a LONG time to be able to buy. Things fell into place at the right time and we are in the perfect home for us in a perfect location. Things always happen at the *right* time and I am sure they will for Sweep's your house.

 

I am VERY lucky to have this forum. I wish I could individually thank in person every person who has ever commented on a post I have started or written a post that has helped me. I'd buy each of you a beer (or whatever you wanted!) I'd go broke since SO many posts have helped me, but it would be worth it!

 

Have a great day everyone!

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

Oh, forgot to add since you mentioned playing DMB for Grace....when we leave I do leave the Beatles catalog on the ipod playing....or a light Pandora station on the ipad. Trying not to burn her out on DMB since she will hear PLENTY of it in this house during her lifetime! I try to expose her to lots of music, since I listen to so much different stuff ranging from Metallica to Enya to Vivialdi to country music (love it, hubby hates it,) to Jay-Z to singer-songwriters. Don't tell anyone, but I've also been known to indulge in some guilty pleasure such as Taylor Swift and that Beiber kid. But only in the car Years of managing a record store and always loving music has made me a bit of a music freak

[ramonaghan]

Oh, forgot to add since you mentioned playing DMB for Grace....when we leave I do leave the Beatles catalog on the ipod playing....or a light Pandora station on the ipad. Trying not to burn her out on DMB since she will hear PLENTY of it in this house during her lifetime! I try to expose her to lots of music, since I listen to so much different stuff ranging from Metallica to Enya to Vivialdi to country music (love it, hubby hates it,) to Jay-Z to singer-songwriters. Don't tell anyone, but I've also been known to indulge in some guilty pleasure such as Taylor Swift and that Beiber kid. But only in the car Years of managing a record store and always loving music has made me a bit of a music freak

 

We'd be obligated to report you if you ever inflict the Biebs on Grace.

[Guest DMBFiredancer]

 

We'd be obligated to report you if you ever inflict the Biebs on Grace.

I won't!!

 

Remember, I teach first graders.

 

I have to be hip to this stuff to be able to make up story problems such as: Justin Bieber played 7 songs in concert. Then he played 8 more. How many songs did he play in all?

 

Just like dogs, whatever works to get them learning!!!!