Post-Surgery Bruising: Does This Look Normal?

[o_rooly]

Aston underwent minor surgery yesterday morning to remove a gangrenous lesion on his side (thread here: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/293763-astons-licking-wound-e-vet-or-wait-until-morning/). He is acting okay outside of showing discomfort in lying down / getting up.

Tonight I noticed bruising below his incision:



and at the IV site:



I should note that because the lesion was a big round hole, the vet pulled his skin across the underlying tissue in order to draw it together. I figure bruising from that is inevitable, and indeed, Aston winces when I barely touch the area.

Does this look normal?? I figure it won't hurt to take him back to his regular vet tomorrow morning. He has not been given Amicar, though now I wish I had asked the vet about it prior to the procedure.

[maggiespet]

Not able to give any advise. But hugs and smooches to your boy. Hope he recovers quickly.

Edited December 24, 2012 by maggiespet

[KF_in_Georgia]

I'm not sure about the bruising but whether it's okay or not, talk to your vet about Amicar. You don't want to run into trouble over Christmas.

[tbhounds]

Looks normal to me but, It sure wouldn't hurt to start the Amicar.

[Guest sireltonsmom]

Hope and plan that he heals quickly - greyhounds seem to be extra good in that area. I agree that you don't want problems while vet is closed over Christmas. Good luck.

[o_rooly]

Took him back to the vet this morning, along with an article from a past GHWP@OSU newsletter in regard to greyhound bleeding, and asked for Amicar. Vet read the article and ended up giving Aston a Vitamin K1 injection, and gave me a 5-day supply of K1 tablets, told me to apply arnica gel to the bruising, and no long walks for a few days. I did also relay that I had been giving Aston fish oil 2x daily prior to the surgery (have stopped that for now).

And, for the first time, Aston hesitated at the door to the vet's office. I think a burger run is in order..

[JJNg]

Vitamin K only helps if there's a deficiency and problem with clotting factors (such as rat poison or liver failure). It's totally unrelated to why greyhounds sometimes have clotting issues, which is related to platelet function and only addressed specifically by Amicar. Although he likely didn't need it, the vitamin K won't hurt him, and if the bruising doesn't get any worse, he probably doesn't need the Amicar either.

[o_rooly]

Vitamin K only helps if there's a deficiency and problem with clotting factors (such as rat poison or liver failure). It's totally unrelated to why greyhounds sometimes have clotting issues, which is related to platelet function and only addressed specifically by Amicar. Although he likely didn't need it, the vitamin K won't hurt him, and if the bruising doesn't get any worse, he probably doesn't need the Amicar either.

 

Bah, that's what I feared. It gets awkward at the vet's office when I've done research online and don't necessarily agree with what the medically-trained, professional vet recommends, especially given that Aston's blood values have always been perfect. I suppose rolling the GHWP article up and hitting the vet with it wouldn't be the proper response...

[Wonder]

Vitamin K only helps if there's a deficiency and problem with clotting factors (such as rat poison or liver failure). It's totally unrelated to why greyhounds sometimes have clotting issues, which is related to platelet function and only addressed specifically by Amicar. Although he likely didn't need it, the vitamin K won't hurt him, and if the bruising doesn't get any worse, he probably doesn't need the Amicar either.

 

Bah, that's what I feared. It gets awkward at the vet's office when I've done research online and don't necessarily agree with what the medically-trained, professional vet recommends, especially given that Aston's blood values have always been perfect. I suppose rolling the GHWP article up and hitting the vet with it wouldn't be the proper response...

I asked for amicar after Lucky's surgery 3 weeks ago (I was lucky he ended up not needing it) and the surgeon just looked at me blankly. He didn't appreciate me opening my mouth

[o_rooly]

Vitamin K only helps if there's a deficiency and problem with clotting factors (such as rat poison or liver failure). It's totally unrelated to why greyhounds sometimes have clotting issues, which is related to platelet function and only addressed specifically by Amicar. Although he likely didn't need it, the vitamin K won't hurt him, and if the bruising doesn't get any worse, he probably doesn't need the Amicar either.

 

Bah, that's what I feared. It gets awkward at the vet's office when I've done research online and don't necessarily agree with what the medically-trained, professional vet recommends, especially given that Aston's blood values have always been perfect. I suppose rolling the GHWP article up and hitting the vet with it wouldn't be the proper response...

I asked for amicar after Lucky's surgery 3 weeks ago (I was lucky he ended up not needing it) and the surgeon just looked at me blankly. He didn't appreciate me opening my mouth

 

Yeah, I got that look right after the vet blurted "Where did you find this?!" and waved the article after reading it. I wanted to wave my hands right back and yell BUT THE INTERNET SAID SO!!!!...

Googling by patients is probably pretty high up on the list of doctors' pet peeves, or perhaps it's the leading cause of new-car purchases in the medical field.

[Wonder]

I actually told a vet tech she was wrong about Lucky's blood values when I was visiting him in the ICU at the e-vet. Pretty sure that's why they told me to go home shortly after

[tbhounds]

Most vets do not like Dr Google, however, most vets do know of Dr Couto. ;-). Hopefully, your vet will read the article in time.

[greysmom]

It looks like normal bruising, but again, I'm not right there looking at it. What you DON'T want to see is pooling of the blood or excessive bruising that continues to grow very fast. Some warm compresses will help over the next few days.

 

With apologies to the vets on GT ( ), no vet can keep up with current research on info for every breed, so they should appreciate when owners are concerned enough to do their own research and not blow us off when we do. I have switched from a vet before that didn't adequately address my concerns, no matter where I "came up" with them. Ido realize that this can be taken to extremes by some hypochrondriac (sp?) owners.

[o_rooly]

Here's the bruising as of a few minutes ago:



It looks a little darker to me, compared to my last photo, but maybe I'm overreacting?
Aston's spent most of the day lying on that side.

It freaks me out, too, that I can't tell whether the bruising extends further down, as I can't see through his fur. Ugh.


Edit to add: yeah, I've wondered whether I'm in the vet's Book of Vicarious-Hypochondriac Owners, but really, outside of visits for senior blood panels every ~6 months, I only take Aston in when something is really off. such as: bronchitis, giant holes in his foot that won't heal, gangrene....


Another edit to add: Here is the GHWP@OSU Newsletter that I printed out to show my vet in regard to greyhound bleeding and Amicar, in case it helps anyone in the future: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/assets/pdf/hospital/bloodBank/wellness/newsletters/2009/ghwpNewsletterSummer2009.pdf
I'm comforted by the part of the bleeding article that notes that the hounds in the diagnostic photos all had self-limiting bleeding.

Edited December 25, 2012 by o_rooly

[macoduck]

The bruising may have extended further down just from the gravity of the blood pooling. When Gracie had a blow to her ribs ( I can't remember how that happened), the next day it looked like she had a tennis ball hanging from the lowest part of her underside. It was all blood and eventually reabsorbed.

[tbhounds]

The bruising looks like its taking a natural progression--I don't think I would worry. I would NOT put you in the "Vicarious Hypocondriac" catagoy all at. You appear to be a good concerned owner that loves her hounds.

Your vet should and I'm sure appreciates you being proactive with your pets health. If you were a Dr Google client you would have followed poor Internet advice rather than allowing a veterinarian to determine how to proceed medically.

I would, however, ask to speak to your veterinarian about specific greyhound medical differences. He/she should embrace the extra knowledge.

http://www.greyhoundadoptionofoh.org/Library/2010-greyhound-medical-packet.pdf

[JJNg]

Yeah, I got that look right after the vet blurted "Where did you find this?!" and waved the article after reading it.

 

Your vet gave you that response after reading the article? Dr. Couto and the Greyhound Health and Wellness program are valid, well-respected resources, not just some random article you found on the Internet. I'm a bit disturbed by vets discounting important information a client brings to them, just because they aren't familiar with it. I'm equally disturbed by how so many people seem to just accept such disrespectful treatment by their vets.

 

With apologies to the vets on GT ( ), no vet can keep up with current research on info for every breed, so they should appreciate when owners are concerned enough to do their own research and not blow us off when we do. I have switched from a vet before that didn't adequately address my concerns, no matter where I "came up" with them.

 

No need to apologize to me. I welcome input from clients for this very reason. Especially with difficult or unusual cases, the more people involved in the research, the more likely we are to find helpful information. I only have so many hours in a day, and honestly, nothing motivates you to research more than if it's your own pet. I just tell clients to be aware of the source of the information, and I'm happy to look over and evaluate what they bring in and give my opinion.

[o_rooly]

THANK YOU, everyone, for your input. I really, really appreciate it, especially with the Holiday timing..
Aston's bruising doesn't seem to have changed since last night, and he is less "ouchy" by the day.
One of my friends wondered if a spider bite might have been the wound cause. That would make sense... perhaps it's why things went south so quickly, too?
Oh, Google, you are the devil on the shoulder of my obsessive-compulsive self.

Your vet gave you that response after reading the article? Dr. Couto and the Greyhound Health and Wellness program are valid, well-respected resources, not just some random article you found on the Internet. I'm a bit disturbed by vets discounting important information a client brings to them, just because they aren't familiar with it. I'm equally disturbed by how so many people seem to just accept such disrespectful treatment by their vets.

 

No need to apologize to me. I welcome input from clients for this very reason. Especially with difficult or unusual cases, the more people involved in the research, the more likely we are to find helpful information. I only have so many hours in a day, and honestly, nothing motivates you to research more than if it's your own pet. I just tell clients to be aware of the source of the information, and I'm happy to look over and evaluate what they bring in and give my opinion.

Yeah, the response was after he read some of the article in front of me, and then he handed the article back. It was awkward.

He generally seems to be very "old-school" about how he does things, and can be brusque. However, he has been open to hearing me out in the past, and has been happy to answer a list of questions about conditions that come up with Aston. I guess it was just a no-go this time.
I'm keeping an eye out for another vet, but I've been hesitant to move because this office does at least keep good records, has only one receptionist who is on top of everything (so nothing is lost), is very accessible (I rarely have to wait more than a few minutes if I drop in with Aston during business hours), is very affordable, and is very close to my work, so it is easy to truck Aston in on the way to work if needed. However, in reading those characteristics, is it kinda like "I bought this car in particular because it DOESN'T explode"?

I haven't had any issues with past visits involving routine items, which is most of what we're dealing with. However, all of that is fairly null if something idiosyncratic for Aston is overlooked, and could cause major issues..

Perhaps I should look for another vet, too, in case there are others who would be a better fit AND accept CareCredit. That would definitely help in the event that another urgent procedure comes up.


Tbhounds -- Thank you!! I have printed the packet that you linked, and will present it at Aston's recheck in 2 weeks.

[duncan41]

Yeah, I got that look right after the vet blurted "Where did you find this?!" and waved the article after reading it. I wanted to wave my hands right back and yell BUT THE INTERNET SAID SO!!!!...

Googling by patients is probably pretty high up on the list of doctors' pet peeves, or perhaps it's the leading cause of new-car purchases in the medical field.

 

Find another Vet if possible. If that's not feasible, do not, under any circumstances give any medication or do any surgical procedures until you are satisfied that it is right for your dog. I have a dog who is dying of kidney failure because her former Vet said he knew all about Greyhounds.

[o_rooly]

Find another Vet if possible. If that's not feasible, do not, under any circumstances give any medication or do any surgical procedures until you are satisfied that it is right for your dog. I have a dog who is dying of kidney failure because her former Vet said he knew all about Greyhounds.

 

I'm very sorry to hear of your hound's kidney failure. I am researching other vets at this point, and will be vigilant in the meantime.

[KF_in_Georgia]

My vet willingly admits he doesn't know everything. When a problem comes up, he makes a diagnosis, prescribes drugs, and tells me to run it by the people on Greytalk.

[o_rooly]

My vet willingly admits he doesn't know everything. When a problem comes up, he makes a diagnosis, prescribes drugs, and tells me to run it by the people on Greytalk.

 

Whenever I'm worried about Aston for whatever reason, the first thing my fiance replies with is "Did you ask the greyhound forum?"

[seattlegreygirl]

Whenever I'm worried about Aston for whatever reason, the first thing my fiance replies with is "Did you ask the greyhound forum?"

My husband asks me the same thing whenever something comes up with our hounds!

[Guest kkaiser104]

Sorry to hear about the trouble with your vet, but I'm glad to hear his bruising is progressing normally! I'm fortunate enough to be able to visit OSU for Teddi's vet appointments, and an e-vet in WV that sees a lot of greyhounds. I wouldn't like a vet who wouldn't at least consider using an article as a resource. I like vets who are on top of the technology and information. Good luck finding another one!