Solo Greyhound, Behavior Problems Worsening

[Guest AMELIAdetonated]

I've had my boy Archer for 4 months and at first, his seperation anxiety seemed normal; following me from room to room, whining when I left, etc. But it has progressively gotten worse to the point where he won't pee our less I take him somewhere and then he'll unload in my house when I'm asleep or gone.

When I crated him in the beginning, he cried, screamed, and eliminated in his crate repeatedly until I removed it from the house completely. He eliminates in his belly band, and I have had to confine him to a 10ft x 10ft room in my house so he can't defecate on my things or drag things onto my bed in my room, including: toys, full bags of dog food, my shoes & clothes, bones, etc.

He has a thunder shirt, a belly band, a soft bed with many blankets, toys, bones, and has been tested for UTI multiple times, and doesn't have anything visibly wrong with him (so says my vet).

 

I don't know what to do. I don't have the space or money for a second dog, and he just keeps getting worse.

 

I would really appreciate any suggestions you can offer.

[Guest team_tonio]

Oh boy... this sounds super stressful for both you and Archer... my first thought is back to basics with alone training. Did you alone train him when you first brought him home? It is very time consuming and can wear on you, but is SO worth it! I would also couple that with a potty command seeing as you need to contend with that now too...

 

I am certainly no expert but wish you tons of luck and know you'll get great advice on here!

[Busderpuddle]

I have absolutely zero advice for you, just sympathy. I sure hope you can get some help with your boy. You both sound miserable. Good luck !

[Guest Greytluv]

Archer He's not a happy dog AT ALL.

 

Have you called the adoption you got him from and asked for help? You really need someone who has a lot of experience to help you with this.

 

I would start there. Good luck.

[JJNg]

But it has progressively gotten worse to the point where he won't pee our less I take him somewhere and then he'll unload in my house when I'm asleep or gone.

 

This detail makes me wonder if this is just a separation anxiety issue, or if there's more going on here. You got some excellent advice in your previous thread about Archer's behavior. Can you provide some more details about what you've tried or done differently since then, and how Archer has responded? What is your daily routine? What kind of exercise does he get - how often and how long is he walked each day?

 

Sounds like it may be best to consider working with an experienced trainer, or perhaps even a veterinary behaviorist, in person. Your adoption group is often the best place to start for advice and references to a good trainer.

[Batmom]

Honestly sounds like the first thing to work on is housetraining -- he needs to go outside more often, and you need to stay out with him until he eliminates. An anxious dog can almost always produce *something*, but a dog who's gotten empty before you leave or go to sleep isn't going to produce much. If he's repeatedly eliminating indoors, he isn't going out enough. At this point, it sounds like he doesn't know where he's supposed to eliminate.

 

Second thing to work on is dogproofing. If you don't want him to move things around, put them away so the two of you can enjoy your space together.

[Guest AMELIAdetonated]

Okay everyone, just an update, as well as an answer to questions.

I've called my adoption agency and they suggest I give him back, which is not what I'm interested in.

 

And, I've done research, spoke with a friend who has had a solo grey for four years, and spoke with a trainer who has and works with greys & have learned:

His VERY recent change in food, especially to one containing pumpkin, as well as irregular feeding times can cause loose stools and anxiety.

Since he is still freshly neutered, he still has a lot of testosterone coursing through him so his tendency to mark instead of pee is relatively normal, just vastly inconvenient.

He's still adjusting to not being surrounded by dogs, as even in his foster home there were two others, so he's adjusting.

He was not properly house trained in his foster home, as his foster mom has informed me that he did have to wear a belly band, and went outside with her two other greys (at the time); and she only had him for a couple weeks, so that wouldn't have been much time for her to tell anyway.

 

So from here, after panicking to coming home to a mess, I have calmed down and since realized that the real issues are:

•He rations his pee (saves it up) for marking, and while I (used) take him on a walk around the neighborhood almost every morning (the days we don't, we play in the yard or go to the dog park), he still doesn't pee everything out and doesn't actually "eliminate" when we go outside before bed (my neighborhood is not fit for walking at night).

*Note, the reason we have decreased walks to just around the yard for about 20 minutes at the advice of a trainer is specifically to get him used to his own yard & realized that he needs to pee/mark there if he's going to do it at all, so he learns to eliminate

•Separation anxiety - this is the big one, but it's one I think we can work on if I give him the same food for more than a month (I mistaked him having the occasional loose stool for not agreeing with the food, when in fact he may be just adjusting), and if I start giving him more "jobs" to do (something I learned through research).

*By jobs I mean going to training class, learning to be in public (at fresh markets, on walks around people in the city), and with food puzzles & more interesting toys at home.

- Side note, is there any way I can entice him to like toys? My foster said he enjoyed squeaky toys and when he came to me, he would squeak once or twice, but then got bored and wouldn't enjoy toys anymore.

 

So I guess, the advice I really need is how to get to keep from rationing pee. The separation anxiety I'm going to work harder with, but he never eliminates when I'm home. If he paces, sniffs the door, I take him out, but he just looks like me like "what? car ride?" and stands next to the door, and never pees. But then, as soon as I leave, he actually "eliminates", not marks, just a HUGE puddle right in front of the door. When I woke up this morning, he was walking back into my room after a huge pee, where I am allowing him to sleep on his own bed so he can hopefully calm down a bit. He didn't make any sound or notion, he just went and did it, and when I sat up groggily, he looked at me and just laid back down. How do I handle that?

 

Thank you guys, especially those who have noticed Archer from other threads, I really appreciate it.

[FountainLady]

If you want him to not ration the urine, take him on a long walk around the neighborhood to leave lots of "pee mail" and really empty him out. Walking him around his own yard for 20 minutes is just not the same to a dog. They don't get the mental stimulation, or the good marking opportunities.

 

What schedule do you have him on for potty breaks & feeding times? Greyhounds don't come knowing to ask to go outdoors to go potty. Things were very scheduled for them at the track. They thrive on a set schedule. Most "new" greyhounds will not wake you up if they need to go. Perhaps you need to get up earlier in the morning to let him out. You may have to change your own schedule for a month or more to help set Archer up for housebreaking success.

 

Make sure you clean up all traces of any urine with a good cleaner made to neutralize the odor - if even a whiff of the smell remains, a dog will return to that spot over and over again. If he has chosen one spot in the house to eliminate in, can you babygate this area off from him?

 

I agree it is back to basic housebreaking 101 for this guy. Make sure he is on a set schedule, and offer him more opportunities to eliminate outdoors - and when he does - you need throw a big party for him with praise and treats! Tire him out with a good long walk around the neighborhood before you leave him, so he is mellow and drained of bodily fluids. Try leaving him with a frozen kong filled with kibble and peanut butter to keep him calm and busy.

 

Just keep practicing your alone training over and over again until Archer "gets it" ... that nothing bad is going to happen to him when you leave him alone, and you will be back.

 

I can tell how much you love Archer - try not to get discouraged. Things will get better!

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

I taught my grey to ring bells at the back door as a signal to let me know when she wanted to go outside. That might be something for you to try in order to help him communicate his need to you. Meanwhile, keep him leashed to you, so he can't sneak off and go.

 

I even slept with my grey's leash on my arm for months, so she couldn't sneak off and eliminate at night. Unfortunately, in our situation she never has learned to wake me at night when she's loose, so she sleeps in her crate. Only recently has learned that whining from her crate will wake me in order to go out at night, before that she did have accidents once every couple of months or so.

 

 

I totally agree with your idea to give him a job. Training really helped my grey and I to bond and learn how to communicate with one another. I have a couple puzzle toys for her, a flat one where she pushes cups on a track with her nose, one where she has to paw at a little wheel to open a flap (she's not good at it yet) and her Buster Cube (http://www.amazon.com/Buster-Food-Cube-Large-Colors/dp/B0006G54OU). She's very food motivated, so these toys are very effective for her.

 

The only way I can encourage my grey to play with other toys is to pretend I don't want her to have them. If I pick up a stuffy and start playing with it, but turn away from her when she tries to see what's going on, then she'll get excited and steal it from me and play for a while. DH and I also give her junk mail to shred, and she enjoys stealing stuff when we bring in groceries. (DH and the dog "fight" over bags of potatoes, boxes of soap, toilet paper -- now with fang marks -- and once a whole frozen turkey). Not conventional dog toys, but it's a game she really goes for, so it works for us.

 

 

 

.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Jayne

[RedHead]

I don't know about other dogs but Teague would never empty his bladder in the yard no matter how long I left him there. I take him for a good 45 min. or longer walk/jog (with off leash running) every day before work (and another longer walk after work). He pretty much empties out everything by the end, and is pretty tired and hungry by the time I leave. I put down food as I go out the door and he looks forward to that so doesn't even notice me. Afterwards, he is ready for a nap! I never had separation anxiety so not commenting on that, just pointing out that I don't know if being in the yard will encourage your pup to empty out the bladder.

 

On a side note, I know some people like their dog following them everywhere, but I actually don't allow mine to, especially in the beginning. If he is still following you around everywhere in the house you may want to practice having him stay in other rooms from where you are.

 

Anyways, this situation sounds very frustrating but try to think positive and keep working hard!

[Guest Timo]

I take Timo out on a leash, even if it's just in the yard. He has learned over time that in the yard with leash on means pee. In the yard without leash means play time. So, every time before we leave the house and before bed, we take him out on a leash and walk around in circles in the yard until he pees. Sometimes, I have to walk around a dozen times before he'll do it, but he'll eventually pee. And, during these pees in the yard, he squats, not marks. If I just let him out without a leash, he would just stooge around and never pee if he doesn't have to go badly. Maybe you can try this with Archer.

[Scooby172]

Jack has/had (I hope) a very annoying habit of peeing in the car. I use the leash in the yard trick too. Whenever we have to go someplace in the car or I want to make sure he pees, I put the leash on and we walk around the yard until he pees. It now takes only a few minutes before he pees on the leash and we can get on with our trip or whatever. Jack also learned that when he pees in the yard he gets a reward, a ride in the car, a treat and some special attention.

Linda, Jack and Keeva

[Guest AMELIAdetonated]

I want to give you guys a quick update that is a PERFECT example of why I am in ** mode.

 

TODAY: We worked outside ALL DAY. I was building a chicken coop and he was hanging out with me, drinking plenty of water, and we went on car rides together if I needed anything. ALL DAY. We even went on a 20 minute walk this morning. I have decided that he is no longer allowed to mark and I am discouraging it completely, and that's just me. I don't have the time to take him on a walk long enough to empty his bladder four times a day and it's honestly my job to train him to do so on his own. But I went to PLUCK MY EYEBROWS for 10 minutes in the bathroom - he is barricaded in a LARGE portion of the house so he can't follow me into the kitchen or the bathroom. AS SOON AS I CAME BACK, there was a PUDDLE of pee, right here. He had peed ALL OVER the paper towels, scissors, and grill lighter I'd just bought and was standing there, just looking at me. He peed TWICE outside today, very SMALL amounts, and SAVED IT UP and had an "ACCIDENT" inside. I have NO IDEA what to do (if you can't tell by my SHOUTY capitals). My foster mom says I should give him back so someone with experience can take care of such a needy dog, but I can't just give my dog back! Seriously though, 10 minutes. What do I do!?

 

Also, he won't pee on the leash in the yard - we've done it for 30+ min and he just starts making me drag him, literally. I just don't understand why he won't pee outside! He just never has. He'd rather pee in his belly band, crate (god forbid there was one in the house, he wouldn't even go in the room that held it), bed, or bedroom, than just go outside.

 

And as a side note, the separation anxiety has NOTHING to do with loneliness for people or for another dog - JUST ME. He whines when I leave him with ANY other dog, and if he's in a room with a PERSON PETTING HIM and I go to the bathroom, he immediately cries. What do I do? I'm just freaking out because every time I try ANYTHING, I just fail, over and over, and I just can't keep failing him.

[Batmom]

I have decided that he is no longer allowed to mark and I am discouraging it completely, and that's just me.

 

I'm not sure what this means. Are you discouraging him from marking outdoors or indoors? What exactly are you doing?

 

I don't have the time to take him on a walk long enough to empty his bladder four times a day

 

If he won't go in the yard, then he needs to be walked until he learns, and he may even need to be walked more than four times a day.

 

He peed TWICE outside today, very SMALL amounts, and SAVED IT UP and had an "ACCIDENT" inside.

 

Dogs don't purposely save it up so they can pee indoors. If he's reluctant to pee much on a good long walk, it's worthwhile to recheck for UTI and then perhaps revisit what's going on on your walks that he isn't getting empty.

 

He whines when I leave him with ANY other dog, and if he's in a room with a PERSON PETTING HIM and I go to the bathroom, he immediately cries.

 

I'd just ignore that. Isn't hurting anything.

[Guest june]

I am sorry you are going through this. My experience with males has been they don't want to wet their belly bands. Wouldn't it be great if we could read their minds.

Good luck,

june

Edited August 30, 2012 by june

[JJNg]

For many male dogs, releasing small amounts of urine in the form of marking is their natural way of urinating. They only release a full bladder when they've gotten to the point where they just can't hold it anymore. So by discouraging your boy from marking on walks, you may essentially be teaching him that you don't want him to pee outside. Or you may be teaching him that he'll get in trouble if he pees in front of you, which might be why he waits until you leave the room for a few minutes before he pees inside.

 

At this point, it sounds like Archer has no idea that urinating inside isn't appropriate behavior. You need to be supervising him every second of the time he's inside so that you can take him out immediately when he needs to go. There should never be any correction or punishment when he eliminates outside; any urination or defecation outside needs to be lavishly praised and rewarded.

 

I usually recommend not punishing a dog or puppy for eliminating inside even if you catch them in that act, as even that can create confusion and result in a dog that is afraid to go in front of you. Instead, make a loud neutral noise to try to distract and interrupt the dog if you happen to catch him in the act. Then take him outside and praise if he finishes outside.

 

Honestly, this is all about basic housetraining. If you can consistently supervise him to prevent all accidents inside, and praise/reward all elimination outside, most dogs catch on pretty quickly.

 

I agree with Batmom about the whining when you leave him. Just ignore it. And try not to return to him or give him any attention until he's calm and quiet.

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

Well, first of all 4 months is not a long time, so he is still adjusting. First, if you haven't had a urine culture done, get that done and make sure there are no medical issues.

Then, I would go back to the basics of potty training 101. If he's doing it while you are asleep but at home, I don't think it's separation anxiety entirely, but he does sound anxious in general. I have a feeling he thinks you are unpredictable and that makes the problem worse. I am not sure if you have potty trained a dog before? They don't think like humans, so he's not "saving his pee" so he can go in the house. He probably doesn't know what you want yet, so he's confused about what to do. Some suggestions would be:

 

A very consistent and frequent walk/turnout schedule

Belly band or confinement if you can't watch him

When you are watching him and he starts to lift his leg, he immediately goes outside

If he pees in the house and you don't see him do it, do NOT scold him. Just clean it up

Only tell him "no" when you catch him in the act (dogs have no memory)

When he does go outside, praise and treat him

Give him lots of love and patience

 

Good luck and Deep Breaths!

[Guest AMELIAdetonated]

He doesn't save his pee to go indoors, he saves his pee with the anticipation of marking. But he can never mark enough, as I ALWAYS wake up to pee. I don't know how to be consistent with a dog that looks at me like I'm an idiot for taking him in the yard. I don't want him marking when we take walks anymore because he needs to be okay just going in the yard, because sometimes it's raining, or there's some domestic crack dealer violence getting broken up by cops (sadly, that's my neighborhood), so him not eliminating outside at all, and simply saving up with the hopes of marking, causes him to reach a breaking point that he doesn't alert me of, just waits til I'm gone, even for a split second, to relieve. It's odd, because being outside for a WHILE with me in the yard doesn't get him to that point, walking him with NO marking and then putting him the yard doesn't do it either. Even when he's in the yard and he doesn't know I'm watching from an inside window, nothing! Why is not interested in relieving until it's too late?

[Guest AMELIAdetonated]

I have another question:

When house training an adult dog, how do you enfore that eliminating inside is bad? I know you can't scold after the fact, but he doesn't do it if I'm watching him. How can I do that & encourage him to go outside only?

 

Also, when I'm not home, he will tear through barriers I put up for him, could I build him a dog house for outside so he could go out there when I have to be gone? Like, a dog house with some kind of air cooling device. I feel like leaving him inside just ends up setting him up to fail, because I can't seem to research and train him fast enough.

 

Thank you everyone for all your suggestions, by the way. I keep learning and learning and trying to move forward the best I can. (:

[Batmom]

he saves his pee with the anticipation of marking.

 

No, he doesn't. Dogs don't do that. They pee when they have to go, and when they're stimulated by movement, sight (oh boy! upright object!), or scent.

 

It sounds very much, as JJNG noted, that you've taught him not to go in front of you.

 

Whatever you're doing to discourage him from marking outdoors, you need to stop doing. Without knowing just what you've done, it's hard to recommend ways to turn that around, and it sounds like he's learned the lesson quite well. It sounds like he's not going anywhere until he's ready to burst.

 

Normally with a new dog, we go outside often so the dog has no need or opportunity to go indoors. That is very quickly sufficient to teach healthy adult dogs the "where" of it.

 

Keeping him outside isn't a solution. It would be better to return him to the group rather than risk his health and wellbeing in that manner.

[racindog]

For many male dogs, releasing small amounts of urine in the form of marking is their natural way of urinating. They only release a full bladder when they've gotten to the point where they just can't hold it anymore. So by discouraging your boy from marking on walks, you may essentially be teaching him that you don't want him to pee outside. Or you may be teaching him that he'll get in trouble if he pees in front of you, which might be why he waits until you leave the room for a few minutes before he pees inside.

 

At this point, it sounds like Archer has no idea that urinating inside isn't appropriate behavior. You need to be supervising him every second of the time he's inside so that you can take him out immediately when he needs to go. There should never be any correction or punishment when he eliminates outside; any urination or defecation outside needs to be lavishly praised and rewarded.

 

I usually recommend not punishing a dog or puppy for eliminating inside even if you catch them in that act, as even that can create confusion and result in a dog that is afraid to go in front of you. Instead, make a loud neutral noise to try to distract and interrupt the dog if you happen to catch him in the act. Then take him outside and praise if he finishes outside.

 

Honestly, this is all about basic housetraining. If you can consistently supervise him to prevent all accidents inside, and praise/reward all elimination outside, most dogs catch on pretty quickly.

 

I agree with Batmom about the whining when you leave him. Just ignore it. And try not to return to him or give him any attention until he's calm and quiet.

My thoughts exactly. Double ditto. That's the gospel truth! Sounds to me like maybe the poster has got him afraid to go outside or in front of her. Might be why the adoption person suggusted a more experienced handler.

Edited August 30, 2012 by racindog

[Guest jenniferk]

I feel your frustration. I've only had my boy just over three months too. These all seem like great suggestions. One more idea is to use his absolute favorite, very special treats as a reward when he goes outside (like steak or chicken), so that the only time he gets those treats is when he pees outside. That's what my trainer suggested I do while working on my issue (sleep aggression). I can also speak to living in a rough neighborhood. I live right in the city with a very small backyard. There's no way he would ever do all his business in my backyard! I think it's just boring for him without a lot of smells to get him to go. He only empties his bladder on long walks and does it with frequent marking. While I live close to a really nice river trail, he prefers to walk through the roughest parts of my neighborhood. I was initally wary about walking him in the early morning or evenings on my own, but I've learned that people will just not mess with me because he's big and looks intimidating. If someone I'm suspicious of asks me if they can pet him or tries to engage me in conversation about him, I just say that he really needs to do his business and keep walking. So your dog may be afraid of the cops busting up the drug dealing dispute, but I think most people will not mess with you if you have a big dog with you (even if he's a scaredy cat, they don't know that). As for walking him in the rain, there are some companies that make raincoats for greyhounds. I'm going to invest in one, but he usually deosn't want to walk much in the rain and will get all of us pee out more quickly. Good luck!

[Time4ANap]

Does he have something to aim for in the backyard? We use a couple of traffic cones which you can get at any hardware store - the taller the better. Any type of garden statue etc is fair game. Get him a couple of things that it's ok to pee on. Do not waste your money on pet store things like the Pee Post etc. They don't work. Many of the kennels use a traffic cone or 2 in the turnout area, so he may go right to it.

[Guest happygrey]

For many male dogs, releasing small amounts of urine in the form of marking is their natural way of urinating. They only release a full bladder when they've gotten to the point where they just can't hold it anymore. So by discouraging your boy from marking on walks, you may essentially be teaching him that you don't want him to pee outside. Or you may be teaching him that he'll get in trouble if he pees in front of you, which might be why he waits until you leave the room for a few minutes before he pees inside.

 

At this point, it sounds like Archer has no idea that urinating inside isn't appropriate behavior. You need to be supervising him every second of the time he's inside so that you can take him out immediately when he needs to go. There should never be any correction or punishment when he eliminates outside; any urination or defecation outside needs to be lavishly praised and rewarded.

 

I usually recommend not punishing a dog or puppy for eliminating inside even if you catch them in that act, as even that can create confusion and result in a dog that is afraid to go in front of you. Instead, make a loud neutral noise to try to distract and interrupt the dog if you happen to catch him in the act. Then take him outside and praise if he finishes outside.

 

Honestly, this is all about basic housetraining. If you can consistently supervise him to prevent all accidents inside, and praise/reward all elimination outside, most dogs catch on pretty quickly.

 

I agree with Batmom about the whining when you leave him. Just ignore it. And try not to return to him or give him any attention until he's calm and quiet.

My thoughts exactly. Double ditto. That's the gospel truth! Sounds to me like maybe the poster has got him afraid to go outside or in front of her. Might be why the adoption person suggusted a more experienced handler.

 

It sounds very likely that this is the situation here.

 

I'd suggest that you keep him on a leash when inside and take him outside whenever he needs to go (like if he starts walking around a lot). You do need to go back to house breaking 101. Once he's outside and goes (at all!) you need to praise him -- maybe even giving him a food treat. He shouldn't be getting any negative messages when he goes to the bathroom.

 

I also believe he needs more than 1 walk a day. Sorry, but that's the reality of owning a dog. Not all dogs can be "turn out" dogs. I know, we've got one of them. He won't use our fenced yard for his potty -- he needs walks. You may be in the same situation.

 

I don't think he is saving up his pee to mark inside. He just hasn't understood yet what he is supposed to do.

 

I'm sure it's stressful for you, but it's also probably stressful for him. You may wish to hire a trainer to help you and/or consider seeking more help/guidance from the adoption group.

Best of luck.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2012 by happygrey

[Guest sweetpea]

If we can feel your frustration, guaranteed that he can. The problem (as noted by Batmom and JJng) is he has associated your

frustration only with him peeing in front of you, so now he doesn't.

 

It feels like you need to go back to square one with house training.

 

Until you can get him to go reliably outside, I would take him on long walks all around your neighborhood.

I know that "trainer" told you to only potty him in your yard, but that's not working, so I would ditch it for right now.

You need to get him on a schedule, you need to be consistent and reliable, and patient.

(I don't know what your schedule will allow, so I'm gonna just go with the best option and see what fits.)

 

Wakeup - Long walk (40 minutes minimum, more if he's still peeing) treat and praise every potty.

Between Wake up and Midday, every hour take him out, treat and praise every potty.

Midday - Long walk, treat and praise

Between Midday and Dinner, every hour - out for opportunity to potty, treat and praise

Dinner time - Long walk, treat and praise

Between, every hour - out to potty, treat and praise

Bed time - Long walk, treat and praise.

 

All your trying to do is teach him that pottying outside gets him treats and love, it might take a day or two;

it might take a week or two.

 

As he gets better, you can increase the in-between times.

 

It's not going to be quick or easy, it's going to take time and patience.

 

Good luck,

Buzzy