Ibd In Greyhounds

[Guest greytsmom]

I know there have probably been hundreds of postings about this topic and each one was tailored to the individual grey and human. I need some wisdom from those who have a grey with IBD/food allergy. We have a 12 year old male grey who has been diagnosed with IBD/food allergy about 5 years ago. He has been on a strict diet of Science Diet ZD since then. He did very well for about 4 years with one brief flare-up, which resolved quickly with standard treatment. However, this past year he has had 2 flare ups. This last one started sometime in May and we have been on a roller coaster ride since. He has been on 40 mg of prednisone for about 2 weeks (minimal improvement in stool) and we are in the process of weaning him off. He has had the usual course of Flagyl and Amoxicillin. He developed a UTI and is now taking 700 mg of Ampicillin. Vet also put him on a course Amforal which has not changed his stool consictency. After he is weaned from Prednisone, we are to call her with report. That will be in another 9 days and I doubt there will be any improvement. I can hear his tummy rumbling and such almost constently. He eats heartily (prednisine). With this last flare-up he vomited and stopped eating initially. We are not inclined to put him through any more testing. I can see him regressing after prednisone stopped and we are not inclined to keep him on a maintenance dose since there was little improvement with it. What other options might there be. Has anyone had similar problems? Thank you

[Guest ronansmom]

For what it's worth look into The Honest Kitchen. I feed their foods to my greys whose poops ate so much better. The honest kitchen speaks to food allergies. Give it a try. You never know

[RedHead]

Personally I would try homecooked if you can. There are very simple recipes that in my opinion are a lot easier on the system than low moisture, processed food. I don't know if the ZD is the same nowadays but my vet recommended it for my old dog...when I checked it out it had "starch" as the first ingredient plus high levels of BHA preservatives near the top of the list and was ridiculously expensive so I opted out. Unless he absolutely has to eat hydrolized everything, there are lots of other novel protein/simple diets out there, but to be honest, homecooking seems to clear things up a lot faster in many cases.

 

Has your dog been actually diagnosed with IBD through tests or was it just suggested?

[Guest greytsmom]

If by testing, you mean has he been biopsied, no. I wish we had deep pockets, but we don't. As is, we have spent well over $500 in just the last 4 weeks on blood tests, etc plus medications. The diagnosis was made by symptoms and history and he did respond well to treatment initially 4-5 years ago and did well for a very long time. Besides a lymphoma (of which the prognosis is very poor long term without treatment) , what else could be going on? Vet discussed ultrasound to rule out neoplasm and since we were not going to aggressively treat if one was discovered, we again opted not to do this test.

[Remolacha]

IBD/IBS/food allergies are very specific to each individual. Based on his history, I would guess he has IBS (irritable bowl syndrome) or food allergies (which technically could fall under the IBS umbrella) The treatments for all three are pretty much the same, most important being finding a food they do well on! Food allergies/sensitivities often can change over time, so he could have developed a sensitivity to the Z/D over time.

 

I would try home cooked or raw, or one of the limited ingredient commercial foods. The fewer ingredients and fewer additives, the easier it will be to figure out what he can tolerate. The more control you have over what he eats, the better. One thing I have found that helps Fletcher (IBD/IBS, I didn't biopsy either) with a gurgly tummy is about a tsp of Manuka honey. He gets it with each meal. Good luck! It really is a roller coaster.

[Burpdog]

The best thing I did for Isaac was allergy testing. Straightened up his poop and he is so much happier.

 

Strange things: I kept away from chicken and fed turkey. He is allergic to turkey and not chicken! He is allergic to rice, lamb, peas, turkey and yeast as well as some weeds and grasses. Removing the food allergies has helped a lot.

 

The tests cost around $200 and well worth the money.

[Guest Fasave]

I had an IBD dog and home cooked. I worked with a nutritionist to find a diet that worked for him (he had several health issues). It took time. Note, that my guy's food was supplemented with calcium, vitamins and fish oil to ensure he was getting all the nutrients needed as we could only find 7 foods that he didn't have bad reactions too. It's a fair amount of work but just eventually becomes part of the daily routine. I'd do it again in a heart beat if I had another IBD dog.

[Walliered]

Huck had IBD. The vet did a biopsy and confirmed it. He was on B12 shots. First he took one every week for 6 weeks and then once monthly. He ate only Science Diet I/D and then she switched him to Science Diet D/D. He was on 40mg of Pred. for the last 6 months of his life. I then switched him to a human drug for Chrones (spelling?) disease. That is when the bone cancer showed up. One week after the first limp I had the vet come to the house. We never got the IBD under control. Every stool he had was like thin pancake batter.

[Guest greytsmom]

Huck had IBD. The vet did a biopsy and confirmed it. He was on B12 shots. First he took one every week for 6 weeks and then once monthly. He ate only Science Diet I/D and then she switched him to Science Diet D/D. He was on 40mg of Pred. for the last 6 months of his life. I then switched him to a human drug for Chrones (spelling?) disease. That is when the bone cancer showed up. One week after the first limp I had the vet come to the house. We never got the IBD under control. Every stool he had was like thin pancake batter.

 

I am so sorry for your Huck (and you). How long did you struggle with the IBD?

[Guest greytsmom]

I had wondered about his food and questioned whether he had developed a sensitivity to it. I did not mention this to his vet, thinking if it was possible, she would bring it up. However, I sometimes think she is comfortable with her standard treatment and may not think outside of the box, so to speak. I will discusss the food issues with her. I feel if I embark on this road without her blesssings, I may lose her support in his care.

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences and please keep them coming. There may be some possible solutions for PJay that I can share with her.

[Batmom]

Was he on Amoxicllin or Ampicillin at the time of the first flare-up? Assume the urine has been cultured and tummy meds (carafate, pepcid, similar) are being given whenever on antibiotics or prednisone?

[JenniferS]

I also had an IBD/PLE dog. He was on Hill's d/d Venison food and did quite well. He was also on several meds, and finally predinose which I hate. He was also on Plavix (very expensive though) and got B12 shots. There was a good support site I joined which may also help you: http://www.savelouie.com/phpBB3/index.php

Good luck!

[greyhndz]

If you scroll down a few threads, you'll find my story about Dandi, my galgo. He has protein-losing enteropathy, and lymphangiectasia, a type of inflammatory bowel disease. Dandi needs to be on an ultra-low-fat, hypoallergenic (novel protein) diet for his particular form of the disease.

 

When I read carefully the nutritional stats on z/d canned, I was horrified to see that it is not at all low-fat, and hypoallergenic or not, I'm sure it was a factor in Dandi's relapse. So beware of z/d if a low-fat diet was recommended.

 

If he's on any type of immunosuppression (prednisone, cyclosporine, etc.) I would not risk feeding raw.

 

If you can swing it financially, it might really be beneficial to have him evaluated by an internal medicine vet who is comfortable evaluating and managing suspected IBD. Your vet might have an IM vet with whom she's developed a working relationship, and they could co-manage his care so your vet is kept in the loop. This is what we're doing with Dandi: my vet is seeing him, checking labs and doing re-exams, and she calls our IM vet to discuss strategy. Perhaps your own vet would be willing to do the same with an IM colleague.

 

It sounds as if you've got questions and concerns that are totally appropriate and deserve to be addressed.It's easy to say that you should find a vet more responsive and open to new ideas, but when you're dealing with a crisis you need to feel that you have someone near by who is familiar with his case. It just sounds as if it would helpful to have a new set of eyes involved who can clarify the diagnosis and manage the treatment plan together with your own vet.

 

I hope PJay begins to improve soon and that he responds quickly to treatment. I do so empathize, going through the same problem with Dandi.

 

Jordan

 

I also had an IBD/PLE dog. He was on Hill's d/d Venison food and did quite well. He was also on several meds, and finally predinose which I hate. He was also on Plavix (very expensive though) and got B12 shots. There was a good support site I joined which may also help you: http://www.savelouie...hpBB3/index.php

Good luck!

 

Yes! This is a site which is devoted to lymphangiectasia. The folks are very supportive and have a lot of good info to offer. It's time for me to check back in again, so I'll see you there.

[Guest greytsmom]

Was he on Amoxicllin or Ampicillin at the time of the first flare-up? Assume the urine has been cultured and tummy meds (carafate, pepcid, similar) are being given whenever on antibiotics or prednisone?

 

He was on Amoxicillin with the Flagyl. He is on Ampicillin for the UTI (caught early as there were very few WBC's present). No culture. No tummy meds.

 

If you scroll down a few threads, you'll find my story about Dandi, my galgo. He has protein-losing enteropathy, and lymphangiectasia, a type of inflammatory bowel disease. Dandi needs to be on an ultra-low-fat, hypoallergenic (novel protein) diet for his particular form of the disease.

 

When I read carefully the nutritional stats on z/d canned, I was horrified to see that it is not at all low-fat, and hypoallergenic or not, I'm sure it was a factor in Dandi's relapse. So beware of z/d if a low-fat diet was recommended.

 

If he's on any type of immunosuppression (prednisone, cyclosporine, etc.) I would not risk feeding raw.

 

If you can swing it financially, it might really be beneficial to have him evaluated by an internal medicine vet who is comfortable evaluating and managing suspected IBD. Your vet might have an IM vet with whom she's developed a working relationship, and they could co-manage his care so your vet is kept in the loop. This is what we're doing with Dandi: my vet is seeing him, checking labs and doing re-exams, and she calls our IM vet to discuss strategy. Perhaps your own vet would be willing to do the same with an IM colleague.

 

It sounds as if you've got questions and concerns that are totally appropriate and deserve to be addressed.It's easy to say that you should find a vet more responsive and open to new ideas, but when you're dealing with a crisis you need to feel that you have someone near by who is familiar with his case. It just sounds as if it would helpful to have a new set of eyes involved who can clarify the diagnosis and manage the treatment plan together with your own vet.

 

I hope PJay begins to improve soon and that he responds quickly to treatment. I do so empathize, going through the same problem with Dandi.

 

Jordan

 

I also had an IBD/PLE dog. He was on Hill's d/d Venison food and did quite well. He was also on several meds, and finally predinose which I hate. He was also on Plavix (very expensive though) and got B12 shots. There was a good support site I joined which may also help you: http://www.savelouie...hpBB3/index.php

Good luck!

 

Yes! This is a site which is devoted to lymphangiectasia. The folks are very supportive and have a lot of good info to offer. It's time for me to check back in again, so I'll see you there.

 

Thank you. I will check this out.

[Batmom]

Ah. I asked about tummy meds because antibiotics can cause some inappetence, vomiting, diarrhea. For some dogs, the 'cillin antibiotics seem especially prone to do this. So you might not see any improvement in the stool until the antibiotics are gone.

 

Prednisone can also cause gastric upset. I would ask your vet about getting him on something and use it daily to protect his tummy. Here we tend to use pepcid because it's usually enough. Some folks prefer stronger meds that reduce stomach acid more than pepcid does, but you don't necessarily want to do that;** depends on the dog. Here we normally give 1 pepcid (10mg famotidine is the generic), wait 30-40 minutes, feed a meal or large snack, then give any other meds such as prednisone and antibiotics.

 

If he has another UTI or if this one doesn't go away, I would urge a culture. We've had some UTIs here that we'd never have cured without one.

 

Hugs and best luck to your pupper.

 

 

 

 

** ETA: The reason you don't necessarily want extra-strong tummy meds -- or to keep giving more and more of less-strong ones -- is that stomach acidity affects digestion. Reduce acid too much and you're going to get liquid out the other end, and a dog losing condition. Unhelpfully, not reducing acid enough has the same effect, which is why some vets will suggest pepcid or similar in some cases of diarrhea.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Batmom

[Guest greytsmom]

Ah. I asked about tummy meds because antibiotics can cause some inappetence, vomiting, diarrhea. For some dogs, the 'cillin antibiotics seem especially prone to do this. So you might not see any improvement in the stool until the antibiotics are gone.

 

Prednisone can also cause gastric upset. I would ask your vet about getting him on something and use it daily to protect his tummy. Here we tend to use pepcid because it's usually enough. Some folks prefer stronger meds that reduce stomach acid more than pepcid does, but you don't necessarily want to do that;** depends on the dog. Here we normally give 1 pepcid (10mg famotidine is the generic), wait 30-40 minutes, feed a meal or large snack, then give any other meds such as prednisone and antibiotics.

 

If he has another UTI or if this one doesn't go away, I would urge a culture. We've had some UTIs here that we'd never have cured without one.

 

Hugs and best luck to your pupper.

 

 

 

 

** ETA: The reason you don't necessarily want extra-strong tummy meds -- or to keep giving more and more of less-strong ones -- is that stomach acidity affects digestion. Reduce acid too much and you're going to get liquid out the other end, and a dog losing condition. Unhelpfully, not reducing acid enough has the same effect, which is why some vets will suggest pepcid or similar in some cases of diarrhea.

 

I am a retired RN and do have some working knowledge of medicine (in people) and actually wondered the same thing in regards to the ATB's aggravating an already inflamed GI tract and the wisdom of adding an antiacid. My vet has never mentioned this either. One more thing I will ask about since greytalk members are quite knowledgable about this disease in greyhounds.Thank you.

[Batmom]

Good to hear you have some (lots of) medical experience -- probably makes it lots easier to understand what is going on with your pupper.

 

Most of my dogs have been able to withstand a short course of antibiotics without getting the runs but most have also gotten significantly looser poop after @ 5 days. Baytril/Zeniquin haven't seem to affect poop as much as the other classes of antibiotics (amoxicillin, cephalexin, etc.). YMMV.

[WHanson12]

A little different question relating to long term use of antacids in greys please. Ohio State Univ VMC started our Molly, over a year ago, on a low twice daily dose of Rimadyl along w/ Gabapentin, with 20 mg famotidine daily. They never said to reduce or discontinue the famotidine, nor has any vet after them mentioned it. Molly has been experiencing some looser poop (not always though) in recent weeks. Does anyone recommend that she should be weaned down & off the famotidine?? If so, would she have to be weaned off it gradually??

Thanks for any suggestions or experiences you may have.

[KF_in_Georgia]

A little different question relating to long term use of antacids in greys please. Ohio State Univ VMC started our Molly, over a year ago, on a low twice daily dose of Rimadyl along w/ Gabapentin, with 20 mg famotidine daily. They never said to reduce or discontinue the famotidine, nor has any vet after them mentioned it. Molly has been experiencing some looser poop (not always though) in recent weeks. Does anyone recommend that she should be weaned down & off the famotidine?? If so, would she have to be weaned off it gradually??

Thanks for any suggestions or experiences you may have.

 

My boy is on famotidine. The vet said to leave it on him essentially forever. If your Molly is still taking Rimadyl, the stomach protection daily is warranted. (My 12-year-old boy gets a low dose of meloxicam and other meds every morning, so famotidine first, wait 30 minutes, feed and pill.)

Edited August 12, 2012 by KF_in_Georgia

[Batmom]

As KF indicated, dog can take the regular dose (20-30mg/day) of famotidine essentially forever. Dog should have a stomach protectant if on Rimadyl. So I would leave her on it. Could be the mooshy poop is due to something else.

[tbhounds]

Chimming in here regarding the Pepcid dose. The dose we use here is 0.5mgs/kg. For example a 75lb hound=34kgs x 0.5=17mgs

It's up to the Dr whether it should be given 1 or 2 times daily.

Aways check with your veterinarian before starting any medications-OTC or not.

Hope this helps :-)

[WHanson12]

KF in Georgia & Batmom, thanks so much for your suggestions. I will continue to give Molly the famotidine then. Her OSU vet advised it was ok to give her 20 mg in the a.m. just once a day, rather than 10 mg in the a.m. & again in the p.m. Thank you again!

To all the grey owners who have K9's with IBD, God bless you & your greys; I pray for successful treatments & recoveries for all! They (& you) all deserve it!

[Walliered]

Huck had very loose stools that progressed into water like stools that progressed into blood (lots) in his stools. That is when she did the biopsy. So, I had him for about 1 1/2 years and he had it when I got him. I figure he also had it on the track and was probably not treated. If he was, the information was not passed on. He never had good days. He was a great dog and was just accepting of his situation because he didn't know any other way of life. Then the bone cancer came. He was walking on top of his foot and it started on a Saturday. Took him to the vet that day. Went to Charleston on Thursday. Could not get him to stop hurting after giving him 3 times more of the pain meds. Finally called the vet on Saturday, but she could not come until Sunday evening. She questioned me if I really wanted to put him down or not. I didn't know what I wanted to do except to stop the pain as he had cried for a week. She stopped it with two shots and I felt that I had made the right decision. Charleston is where I am probably taking Lady this week. I can honestly say that when these two are gone, there will not be any more adopting around here.

[Guest greytsmom]

Geez Walleried, I am so sorry, BUT I understand completely how you feel. It takes an emotional and financial toil.

 

As I write this, ours is worse and I am not sure what is going on?? I think he may have a fever as he is lethargic, was shivering, breathing harder and would not eat (and hence no meds). Is the UTI (in part a result of prednisone use) worse and responsible for this latest downslide? i suspect it is. Another trip to the vet and not sure that we won't have to carry him to the car. After over 500 dollars he is not any better (but worse) then when we started. My DH says no more dogs. We are retired and can no longer afford the vet costs. They, like everything else have become too exorbitant for our budget!

[Guest greytsmom]

So just as we started weaning from the prednisone and after the ATB kicked in for the UTI (he was asking to go out every 15-20 minutes for about 7 hours straight and then it slowed down to about 4 hours for about 12 hours), he has needed to go out every 2 hours and drinking copious amounts of water. We let this go on for several days, as he was on so much medicine, we were not sure what was going on. I had planned on calling his vet this morning, mostly to report that we think he has lost weight and then let her know about the excessive drinking and urinating that had begun after starting the weaning process and just as we began the ATB for his UTI. He had also begun excessive and what I deemed inappropriate panting (at rest). I found it hard to believe that the peeing/drinking was just now from the prednisone, but after our visit this afternoon, that is what she said. When I spoke to her on the phone this morning, she initially thought he might be Cushinoid from prednisone/weaning, until I told her we think he has lost weight. After seeing him and examining him, she is concerned about a malignency, especially since the prednisone was not effective and despite eating heartily (except for today...has not eaten), He has lost 8 pounds in a month. She also said there is no way he can be allergic to the protein in his Z/D Ultra. We are scheduled for an abdominal ultrasound Friday. I am not sure what to think except, I feel so sorry for PJay. He is very lethargic and most definately not himself. Hard to watch. Any thoughts...