Dog Behaviorist Advice?

[JAJ2010]

maybe give some thought as to medicating a species that we have no way of knowing exactly what is going on in their head.

 

 

Not personally attacking you, but this exactly makes my point. You have NO IDEA the horror that this level of anxiety creates day after day for any animal. Human or dog. It's like living in your very own horror movie and getting no rest, no bathroom breaks, no popcorn breaks, etc. Worst case scenario medicating my dog ends up shortening their life by a few years it's worth it! I would much rather them be happy and relaxed for 6-9 years than miserable in their own skin for 10-14 years. It's a disservice to them.

 

What if you could have shortened that rehab time in half with some short term or long term medication? It would make for a less stressed dog. I used to be rather anti med, until Sunshine and Vet #7 proved otherwise. Literally within 48 hours Sunshine was marching around outside in front of me on leash not shaking or crab crawling. I tried for years to socialize her with minimal meds and lots of training. 3 months of Xanax while finding the correct long term med did more than what I was able to accomplish in 2 years. For two whole years I tip toed around and tried to do the "right" healthy thing that most people would do. It wasn't fair to Sunshine and I will never be hesitant to use medication when warranted ever again. My job as a pet owner/mom is to have happy healthy pets, mentally and physically.

 

And for what it's worth You can tell when they have side effects. Munchies, belly not feeling right, tiredness, hyperactivity, disorientation, loss of inhibitions, drunkeness, heat flashes, etc You just have to watch and know your dog.

Edited June 8, 2012 by JAJ2010

[kamsmom]

You've gotten some really great advice and I just want to share an opinion, is her fear hindering her progress? Meaning, is her fear harming her? I ask this because I have one very shy almost fearful dog. The best thing that I think have been to just let her adjust on her own, I have done no meds, no extra coddling and really have asked nothing extra of her. If she wants to hang out in the back room I let her. I've had her for almost 4 years now and she is sooo much better than she was early on. She is still shy and I just let her be. She is not a meet and greet dog and really she doesn't enjoy being around a lot of people and that is ok by me. I don't push with her.

 

Now, if her fear is hindering her progress in that she won't even go outside to potty or she is starving herself then yes, get some meds and get something going. But also, give her some time and space. My shy dog responds best to my husband, and it irritates me because he basically ignores her I am the one that hand fed her for a long time and I am the one constantly talking to her, but when she decides to finally want attention she goes to him and he stares at the tv, doesn't even say her name and just pets her, then she leaves and lays down. I get a little jealous that she doesn't come to me .

[Saffron]

I'll just throw my 2 cents in here on medicating anxious dogs. I have a generally rather anxious guy who developed full blown vet phobia after emergency surgery about 18 months ago. I initially resisted putting him on meds, for the same reasons some people here have stated, but later regretted not using them earlier because it made the behavior modification so much easier.

 

We used a behaviorist supplemented with a really good reward-based trainer, and our vet and her staff. I have a great vet who really worked with us to get the meds right. We used Clomicalm (clomipramine) initially in conjunction with Alprazolam (Xanax). He is still on Clomipramine, but we hope to get him off it before too long. It has taken months of work and almost weekly "social" visits to the vet, but he's improved a lot. He now loves going to the vet, until he suspects he is getting a shot. It is going to take a while longer, but he is well worth the time and effort.

 

IIRC, Clomicalm (clomipramine) is an off-label use for general anxiety or phobias. Also it can cause increased anxiety so it might not be the right med for Gila and you may well need to discontinue it. Remember you have to titrate the dose down -- you can't just stop it cold turkey!

 

Just for comparison, our DVM Behaviorist cost $250. This included the initial 2 hour office assessment, 2 follow-up visits, and several telephone consults. Home visits are a bit more expensive. She is also available for follow-up consults for the life of the dog. I think she (and Dr Dodson at Tufts) also does long distance consults. I personally would prefer that the behaviorist sees the dog, but if you are really stuck it might be worth a try.

 

One other thing that I don't think has been mentioned on either of your threads -- have you tried a ThunderShirt for Gila? They are used for general anxiety not just for thunderstorm fears.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

maybe give some thought as to medicating a species that we have no way of knowing exactly what is going on in their head.

 

 

Not personally attacking you, but this exactly makes my point. You have NO IDEA the horror that this level of anxiety creates day after day for any animal. Human or dog. It's like living in your very own horror movie and getting no rest, no bathroom breaks, no popcorn breaks, etc. Worst case scenario medicating my dog ends up shortening their life by a few years it's worth it! I would much rather them be happy and relaxed for 6-9 years than miserable in their own skin for 10-14 years. It's a disservice to them.

 

What if you could have shortened that rehab time in half with some short term or long term medication? It would make for a less stressed dog. I used to be rather anti med, until Sunshine and Vet #7 proved otherwise. Literally within 48 hours Sunshine was marching around outside in front of me on leash not shaking or crab crawling. I tried for years to socialize her with minimal meds and lots of training. 3 months of Xanax while finding the correct long term med did more than what I was able to accomplish in 2 years. For two whole years I tip toed around and tried to do the "right" healthy thing that most people would do. It wasn't fair to Sunshine and I will never be hesitant to use medication when warranted ever again. My job as a pet owner/mom is to have happy healthy pets, mentally and physically.

 

And for what it's worth You can tell when they have side effects. Munchies, belly not feeling right, tiredness, hyperactivity, disorientation, loss of inhibitions, drunkeness, heat flashes, etc You just have to watch and know your dog.

 

Obviously you are pro-medication, and obviously I am anti-medication. We can leave it at that. Let the person figure things out on their own, and realize that any time you put a foreign substance into a body, we arent exactly sure what will happen.

 

Take for instance the medication ACE that was popular but has since been shown to create a hound that is basically a prisoner in their own mind as they cannot physically move their body. How can we be sure what is going on here?

[Echobelly1]

You people have so much information and great suggestions! I'm going to start the hand feeding, that makes sense (don't know if I can get my wife to agree to that, she gives the dogs breakfast, at 5, before going to work, and I doubt she's going to want to get up any earlier to feed Gila bite by bite).

 

All the info about meds is great, I know I'm going to drive the vet crazy! After having Gila about a month and noticing that her fears weren't improving, I felt she would be happier on some sort of medication. Having suffered with anxiety myself (couldn't drive for 15 years), I don't understand why my doctor wouldn't prescribe anything. Once I was finally put on an anti-anxiety med., I thought, "so this is what it's like to feel normal". I now sometimes spend half the day driving without a second thought.

 

You know, I haven't tried the thundershirt on Gila. We have one, too. We tried it on our other grey, Hadji, who had severe SA when we got him. The thundershirt was useless in that respect. Gila was the one who cured Hadji of his SA, pretty much immediately. Now if he could only teach her to be brave. I'm sure he's helped, he's the happiest, most outgoing grey we've had.

[JohnF]

A local behaviourist gave me the keys to 'de-spooking' Peggy. Just one visit. Let the dog know you're not dumb to dog body language and that you actually 'get' how she feels. Don't trap them in a room, always leave space for an exit when you're in there.

Turid Rugass's 'Calming Signals' turned out to be that very valuable key.

You can read how it went if you go to the intro of Peggy's Photo Gallery in my profile.

 

As much as it might be a thyroid factor, it also might be diet related (chicken? beef?). If I eat MacDonalds more than 2 days a week I get quite un-sociable.

[greytlucy]

maybe give some thought as to medicating a species that we have no way of knowing exactly what is going on in their head.

 

 

Not personally attacking you, but this exactly makes my point. You have NO IDEA the horror that this level of anxiety creates day after day for any animal. Human or dog. It's like living in your very own horror movie and getting no rest, no bathroom breaks, no popcorn breaks, etc. Worst case scenario medicating my dog ends up shortening their life by a few years it's worth it! I would much rather them be happy and relaxed for 6-9 years than miserable in their own skin for 10-14 years. It's a disservice to them.

 

What if you could have shortened that rehab time in half with some short term or long term medication? It would make for a less stressed dog. I used to be rather anti med, until Sunshine and Vet #7 proved otherwise. Literally within 48 hours Sunshine was marching around outside in front of me on leash not shaking or crab crawling. I tried for years to socialize her with minimal meds and lots of training. 3 months of Xanax while finding the correct long term med did more than what I was able to accomplish in 2 years. For two whole years I tip toed around and tried to do the "right" healthy thing that most people would do. It wasn't fair to Sunshine and I will never be hesitant to use medication when warranted ever again. My job as a pet owner/mom is to have happy healthy pets, mentally and physically.

 

And for what it's worth You can tell when they have side effects. Munchies, belly not feeling right, tiredness, hyperactivity, disorientation, loss of inhibitions, drunkeness, heat flashes, etc You just have to watch and know your dog.

 

Obviously you are pro-medication, and obviously I am anti-medication. We can leave it at that. Let the person figure things out on their own, and realize that any time you put a foreign substance into a body, we arent exactly sure what will happen.

 

Take for instance the medication ACE that was popular but has since been shown to create a hound that is basically a prisoner in their own mind as they cannot physically move their body. How can we be sure what is going on here?

 

There's no pro-medication nor anti-medication. There should only be pro-individual dog and its situation and what is the best for that combination of dog/situation. Is medication right for every dog? Far from it! But there are SOME dog that do need the help of some medication to progress through whatever challenges may be bringing them. This is WHY it is so important to get help from people who really are well-experienced in dog behavior and medication for behavioral help. Medication should never be the first resort but in difficult cases it should never be ruled out when behavior modification just isn't getting the animal far enough.

 

Is OP's dog one that needs medication? No one here can say as no one here has worked with the dog personally nor has the experience of both diagnosing and then dispensing these classes of drugs in this situation. That should be left to the experts and I hope the OP can find a good qualified expert(s) (I'd echo the suggestion to look for a board certified veterinary behavioralist) to help her sort out her dog's challenges.

 

OP you've gotten some really good advice here from folks. Take the time to really interview vets and behavioralists you consider working with and hopefully you can find someone wiht both experience in the problem you're trying to solve and with whom you are comfortable with. So many out there aren't worth the money they spent to have their cards printed! I wish you and your dog the best. Keep an open mind and always listen to your gut as you live with your dog in and out and know her best. My first greyhound lived under a desk for the first year due to fear of ceiling fans...I remember how upsetting it was to have a dog afraid in its home environment. She lived to be 15 and those that didn't know her that first year never believed our stories of how afraid she was...I hope you too will have the same soon!

Edited June 8, 2012 by greytlucy

[Echobelly1]

A local behaviourist gave me the keys to 'de-spooking' Peggy. Just one visit. Let the dog know you're not dumb to dog body language and that you actually 'get' how she feels. Don't trap them in a room, always leave space for an exit when you're in there.

Turid Rugass's 'Calming Signals' turned out to be that very valuable key.

You can read how it went if you go to the intro of Peggy's Photo Gallery in my profile.

 

As much as it might be a thyroid factor, it also might be diet related (chicken? beef?). If I eat MacDonalds more than 2 days a week I get quite un-sociable.

Thanks for the advice! I've actually had a copy of "Calming Signals" for quite a few years and have read it a number of times. It's been very helpful.

I don't think Gila's issues are diet related. We started her on the natural food the rescue group had been feeding her. Unfortunately, we noticed Hadji started getting skin problems from it. We've been trying different foods on both of them till we can find one that works for both (I think we have, Hadji is scratching much less today). There hasn't been any change in Gila from one food to the next (except a little more gassiness than I'd like!).

[Batmom]

She had already been put on Soloxine. I found the original bloodwork, and her T4 levels were .5, at the low end for a greyhound. It doesn't look like a TSH was done.

 

I would get her off the Soloxine, keep her off for at least 2 months, and then reassess to see if you want a premium panel done at MSU (Michigan State University), with interpretation by them or by OSU's Greyhound Wellness Program. The panel should include fT4ed (free T4 measured by equilibrium dialysis, the most accurate method) and TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone).

 

T4 is not an appropriate diagnostic tool. It fluctuates greatly -- it can be zero at one point in the day, up in the 2's a few hours later, etc. A dog should never be medicated on that basis. I do not understand why adoption groups and their vets do this.

 

Despite the popular references, nervousness is a hallmark of excess thyroid hormone, not the lack of it. I'm sure some hypothyroid dogs are nervous, but it isn't a defining symptom of that condition.

 

For a diagnosis of hypothyroidism, you want to see a very low fT4ed AND a well-above-normal TSH AND symptoms indicative of hypothyroidism.

 

Note that you can't compare T4 (or any other measurement) between laboratories without knowing each lab's normal ranges and adjusting for those. A 0.5 at one lab might be equivalent to an 0.8 at another. Or it might be equivalent to an 0.2. It has become popular to interpret these measures as if there were one true level that is correct; that's erroneous. Laboratories have different measurement methods and different ways of establishing their normal ranges.

 

There is considerable evidence that for greyhounds and some other sighthounds, the T4 can measure zero repeatedly and be normal. That doesn't mean these dogs have no thyroid hormone. It means the measurement techniques simply can't detect the amount that is present.

 

Even in the "old" days (not so long ago), many people felt that a ballpark T4 for a greyhound would be normal if it were in the neighborhood of half the low end for other breeds. Even by that criteria, 0.5 would be normal for a greyhound at most labs (remember, you have to know the individual lab's normal range).

 

 

 

I'm not against meds. But, despite the experience of some on this board, I really question what is going on when a dog needs meds to hype up (soloxine) AND meds to calm down (xanax, clomicalm, etc.) at the same time. I have never personally seen a case in any breed where both types of meds were truly of benefit. And I have seen several cases where using both types of meds resulted in damage to the dog and to the dog-human bond. So I would be very very cautious and ask a lot of questions before going down that road.

 

In my experience, techniques like the hand-feeding mentioned and ordinary, matter-of-fact training can do a lot for a nervous dog. These things take some time, persistence, and much patience but are well worth doing.

 

Good luck with your girl.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Batmom

[MaryJane]

She had already been put on Soloxine. I found the original bloodwork, and her T4 levels were .5, at the low end for a greyhound. It doesn't look like a TSH was done.

 

I would get her off the Soloxine, keep her off for at least 2 months, and then reassess to see if you want a premium panel done at MSU (Michigan State University), with interpretation by them or by OSU's Greyhound Wellness Program. The panel should include fT4ed (free T4 measured by equilibrium dialysis, the most accurate method) and TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone).

 

T4 is not an appropriate diagnostic tool. It fluctuates greatly -- it can be zero at one point in the day, up in the 2's a few hours later, etc. A dog should never be medicated on that basis. I do not understand why adoption groups and their vets do this.

 

Despite the popular references, nervousness is a hallmark of excess thyroid hormone, not the lack of it. I'm sure some hypothyroid dogs are nervous, but it isn't a defining symptom of that condition.

 

For a diagnosis of hypothyroidism, you want to see a very low fT4ed AND a well-above-normal TSH AND symptoms indicative of hypothyroidism.

 

Note that you can't compare T4 (or any other measurement) between laboratories without knowing each lab's normal ranges and adjusting for those. A 0.5 at one lab might be equivalent to an 0.8 at another. Or it might be equivalent to an 0.2. It has become popular to interpret these measures as if there were one true level that is correct; that's erroneous. Laboratories have different measurement methods and different ways of establishing their normal ranges.

 

There is considerable evidence that for greyhounds and some other sighthounds, the T4 can measure zero repeatedly and be normal. That doesn't mean these dogs have no thyroid hormone. It means the measurement techniques simply can't detect the amount that is present.

 

Even in the "old" days (not so long ago), many people felt that a ballpark T4 for a greyhound would be normal if it were in the neighborhood of half the low end for other breeds. Even by that criteria, 0.5 would be normal for a greyhound at most labs (remember, you have to know the individual lab's normal range).

 

 

 

I'm not against meds. But, despite the experience of some on this board, I really question what is going on when a dog needs meds to hype up (soloxine) AND meds to calm down (xanax, clomicalm, etc.) at the same time. I have never personally seen a case in any breed where both types of meds were truly of benefit. And I have seen several cases where using both types of meds resulted in damage to the dog and to the dog-human bond. So I would be very very cautious and ask a lot of questions before going down that road.

 

In my experience, techniques like the hand-feeding mentioned and ordinary, matter-of-fact training can do a lot for a nervous dog. These things take some time, persistence, and much patience but are well worth doing.

 

Good luck with your girl.

 

 

 

I agree totally with Batmom on this and I had stated such earlier in this thread. Why would you consider getting pills to calm her down when she is on pills to get her "hyped up". Get a vet and work together on getting her off the thyroid pills and then redo the tests.

 

Also, do not stop the pills suddenly - they need to be weaned off thyroid medication.

[macoduck]

Clomicalm worked for our Gracie and she was on it for less than 4 months. She had been extremely destructive, extremely SA. It took a month to begin to see the effects of the Clomicalm. I also want to repeat what a previous posted said: do not stop the Clomicalm cold turkey. The dose must be gradually diminished.

[Echobelly1]

You people are so helpful! Thanks for the advice, Batmom, you make perfect sense. I'm slowly reducing the Soloxine, and in a few months, if she shows any symptoms of hypothyroidism, I'll have a full panel done. I didn't realize how innacurate the T4 test is (and obviously, neither do most vets).

I've started keeping a cup full of kibble on the kitchen counter, so the rare times Gila ventures out of the bedroom, we handfeed her a piece at a time. She keeps one eye on the evil ceiling fan the whole time, but she's is spending a little more time out of the bedroom.

I think it was a mistake to stop taking her to the park in the morning with Hadji, it just seemed like it was expecting too much from her and we needed to take it one step at a time. I think now I was feeding into her fears. This weekend we took her both mornings. She had to be carried to the car, but once in it was fine, and enjoyed the walk, especially a dip in the river. She very slowly seems to be returning to her original, but shy, self. She even helped Hadji chase squirrels yesterday, which she hasn't done for quite a while.

I know, I know, patience!

[Batmom]

Aw, glad she is having some good times!

 

Hopefully over the coming weeks things will start sorting out so you can better identify what helps her and what doesn't. She sounds like a darling girl despite her oddities.

[JJNg]

I think it was a mistake to stop taking her to the park in the morning with Hadji, it just seemed like it was expecting too much from her and we needed to take it one step at a time. I think now I was feeding into her fears. This weekend we took her both mornings. She had to be carried to the car, but once in it was fine, and enjoyed the walk, especially a dip in the river. She very slowly seems to be returning to her original, but shy, self.

 

Great update! I think it can be a fine line when deciding how much to 'push' a shy dog. Sometimes you do need to take it one step at a time. Exposing them to too much, too quickly can cause setbacks, so you definitely don't want to overdo it either. Probably the best way to judge is the dog's response. If she's slowly improving, you're on the right track. If she's not making progress, or getting worse, then it's time to reassess the plan.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I agree with Batmom about the thyroid advice. Too many Greyhounds are diagnosed hypothyroid and medicated for it for no reason.

 

I think slowly exposing her to scary things will make a big difference. There is a delicate balance between overwhelming a nervous dog, and hiding them away from anything that scares them. There is a middle ground there, and you will find it. Sounds like you're on the right track.

[JJNg]

Personally I feel that more than 50% of the issue is with your reaction to their fear. They feed off your emiotions. If you feel sorry for the hound, it shows. If you are feeling sorry, then you are transmitting encouragement for the behavior.

 

I agree with this and feel that our response to the dog's anxious behavior can make a huge difference in how the problem progresses over time. Because dogs are so sensitive to and feed off of our moods, projecting a calm, confident demeanor can be very effective in providing the dog with the emotional support she needs.

 

However, I don't necessarily think you're encouraging the behavior by feeling sorry for the dog. Rather, if you feel pity and are worried about the dog, the dog feeds off of your anxiety. She may think that you're afraid of the same thing she is, thus heightening the fear so that it gets worse and worse each time.

 

We have no idea what the medication is actually doing to our hounds, they cannot tell us, so how can we just take medication that was developed for humans and give it to dogs? They cannot tell us if they feel suicidal, if they have other issues such as voices or disturbing dreams and such, but we assume we know.

 

While it's true that we have no way of knowing what exactly a dog is thinking and feeling, I agree with JAJ2010 that if you know your dog and can read basic canine body language, you can make a pretty good educated guess. Our dogs DO tell us how they are feeling through their behavior and body language. I would venture that most of us here believe that dogs experience feelings and emotions similar to the ones that we do - the way we can tell is simply based on how they behave and interact with us. And from a scientific standpoint, a dog's brain chemistry and neurologic structure is also very similar to ours.

 

Even though we may not understand all the subtle details, the basic mechanism of how most of these medications work on brain chemistry is fairly well established. I don't see any reason to believe that dogs respond to psychoactive drugs in some mysterious way that is completely different from humans. Of course, there are individual variations in response to meds. But from talking to people who have taken antidepressant/anti-anxiety meds, and from observation and client feedback on dogs who have taken these same medications, I see many parallels.

 

Some people who take anti-anxiety meds report feeling more relaxed, being more in control of their emotions, more able to cope with everyday stresses. Similarly we see dogs on these meds who act calmer, less reactive, more playful and happy. On the flip side, some people say these meds make they feel weird, give them strange experiences (such as the voices and disturbing dreams Chad mentioned), and make them feel out of control. I also have owners who report their dogs act strange, like they are seeing or hearing imaginary things, or become more aggressive while on these meds. I suspect these dogs are having the negative response similar to the ones that some people do.

 

This doesn't mean that we shouldn't use meds in dogs, or that some dogs won't benefit from drugs. It just means that we need to be vigilant about monitoring each dog's response and stop, change, or adjust meds as necessary.

 

Take for instance the medication ACE that was popular but has since been shown to create a hound that is basically a prisoner in their own mind as they cannot physically move their body. How can we be sure what is going on here?

 

But the reason we now know that ace works the way it does was by observing the responses dogs had to it and realizing that some dogs's anxiety became worse after its use.

 

There's no pro-medication nor anti-medication. There should only be pro-individual dog and its situation and what is the best for that combination of dog/situation.

 

I totally agree with this. I do recommend meds to some of my patients with behavior issues, but I don't do so lightly. One of the major factors I look at is along the lines of kamsmom's question of "is her fear hindering her progress?". If the dog has a 'safe zone' where she can relax and act like a normal dog, and it's just changes, new things, or certain triggers that cause anxiety, you can usually build on that without needing medication. But if the dog is consistently fearful of things she can't avoid on a regular basis and never truly relaxes, I feel that medication is often the best way to improve the dog's quality of life and help facilitate faster progress.

[JJNg]

I really question what is going on when a dog needs meds to hype up (soloxine) AND meds to calm down (xanax, clomicalm, etc.) at the same time. I have never personally seen a case in any breed where both types of meds were truly of benefit.

 

I completely agree with Batmom's comments about the diagnosis of hypothyroidism and feel that this is greatly over-diagnosed in greyhounds. However, the association between thyroid disease and behavior and moods is one that I feel we still don't fully understand.

 

It's not as simple as a conflict between "meds that hype up and meds that calm down". You're talking about 2 completely different body systems - the production of thyroid hormone by the thyroid gland (hypothyroidism), and the release and action of neurotransmitters in the brain (anxiety disorders). So it is certainly plausible that an individual may have dysfunction in both systems and need meds to address the 2 different problems.

 

What I find even more interesting is that thyroid and behavior problems may be associated and have effects on each other. It is actually recognized in human medicine that hypothyroidism can be associated with anxiety and panic disorders as well as depression. And some studies have also shown that stress can affect thyroid hormone production, which could potentially result in hypothyroidism over time.

 

If anyone's interested, here are a few journal articles I've come across relevant to this topic:

 

Thyroid hormones, serotonin and mood: of synergy and significance in the adult brain.

Psychiatric Manifestations of Thyroid Disease

Subclinical hypothyroidism: psychiatric disorders and symptoms.

Depression and anxiety symptoms in hypothyroid women

Social stress-induced hypothyroidism is attenuated by antidepressant treatment in rats.

[Batmom]

You're talking about 2 completely different body systems - the production of thyroid hormone by the thyroid gland (hypothyroidism), and the release and action of neurotransmitters in the brain (anxiety disorders). So it is certainly plausible that an individual may have dysfunction in both systems and need meds to address the 2 different problems.

 

 

Two different systems that interact, as the articles you posted found.

 

The cases where I've seen dogs given both types of medications have often been cases like this one -- dog new to home and given thyroid meds without an appropriate diagnosis of hypothyroidism. Particularly in those cases, it's hard to find evidence that the dog has an anxiety disorder rather than that the dog is simply inexperienced and fearful of new things. There's a difference, and one that is going to be very difficult to diagnose in dogs, who can't talk to us, versus people, who can.

[Hubcitypam]

There's a difference, and one that is going to be very difficult to diagnose in dogs, who can't talk to us, versus people, who can.

 

Even people that can talk and take Levothiroxin + Xanex, and/or Ativan have a hard time with such things.

[Batmom]

Initial recommendation to seek out a behaviorist (rather than a ... trainer ... of the sort that OP was able to find) was in hopes that a qualified professional could help OP assess the dog's behavior and formulate a plan going forward. That assessment would certainly be complicated if the dog was getting unneeded meds or an inappropriate level of meds.

 

I'd still hold out hope that maybe OP's adoption group or PMing Giselle would result in contact with a qualified behaviorist ....

[Guest Isis]

Are you in Florida? If so there is an excellent vet. behaviorist at the university. I can also recommend a good behaviorist. She is an expert in greyhounds and also works at the Wolf Sanctuary in central Florida. Drop me a private email for both names and contact info at GreytofftheTrack at att.net.