New House Has Oleander And Foxtails...

[Guest driveslikeagirl]

Hi there,

 

I'm new here, and don't even have a greyhound yet! (Have never had a dog, actually!) But I've been doing lots of research and doing my best to get the house ready for a new pet.

 

We just moved into our first house on April 22. The gorgeous, huge green lawn has since become mostly dead grass and an extensive network of weeds, including foxtails covering about 1/4-1/3 of the space. I know they are bad for dogs, but it's far too late to be able to extract them all. I can mow what's there, but I'm sure they'll be back next year short of ripping up the entire lawn. And since it's a 90 y.o. house with a lot of issues, I'm not sure a new yard is on the docket for this year. I planned on having a dog door and allowing freedom to go in and out. I can check the dog for foxtails when I'm home, but I work a 9-6 M-F job. Is this gonna be okay, or is it an expensive vet bill waiting to happen?

 

The yard also contains two HUGE OLEANDERS. I grew up with these bushes and know they're extremely poisonous, and they were the only plants the deer wouldn't eat. So I figured every animal knew they were bad news. Why would a dog think it looked tasty? But I've heard horror stories. Do the bushes have to go or be fenced off?

 

There are also calla lilies, which are apparently on the poisonous list. Easy to dig out, but not easy to eradicate completely. Another fence?

 

I'm hoping to get things squared away before the local greyhound adoption agency shows up for a home inspection and runs screaming from my yard, haha.

 

Thanks!

[Neighsayer]

Welcome!

Glad to see that you are doing your research before getting a dog. You can always fence in a small potty area just outside the doggie door, and keep that area safe. That way, the dog can use the area when you are not home, and you can supervise turnout in the larger yard at other times. I like the idea of a fence within a fence to keep the dogs away from the fence line when I'm not home.

[GreyTzu]

I had oleanders in my yard when I bought the house and have them removed before I actually moved in.

[Guest driveslikeagirl]

Oh, fence within a fence is a pretty good idea. It won't help my new greyhound deter the neighborhood squirrels from digging holes and burying their peanuts all over my yard, though!

 

We weren't planning to remove the oleanders since they are nice looking bushes that help to give our yard privacy from the 2-story apartment building that faces us right next door. We are going to plant more trees for additional privacy, but leaving the established oleanders means saving money on extra trees that will still need to grow into their full privacy-giving potential, haha.

[Charla]

I've never had a problem with dogs and oleanders, but they are poisonous and I've never left trimmings or pieces of branches or twigs around to be mouthed, my guys don't bother the callas either.

 

Foxtails are a HUGE problem though, they get between toes, into noses and ears and burrow their way further in causing infections, surgical removal and vet bills! About the only way to get rid of them other than install a new yard is to spray with weed killer when they are still small, before they form the tails or mow them down and keep them mowed down, don't let them form the tails. Been there, done that. You have to keep ahead of them and don't let them seed.

[3greytjoys]

Welcome to Greytalk, and congratulations on your new home!

 

Not seeing the property it's hard to say. My guess: A fence within a fence to keep a dog far away from Oleanders (+dropped flowers) might work.

 

Dogs do not know what is poisonous. It's up to humans to keep them safely away from toxins.

 

Unfortunately, checking a dog for foxtails after work every day will not help enough. Foxtails can burrow deeply into a nasal passage, ear, mouth, paw pad, etc. very quickly. Foxtails are horrible! They are carried by the wind so a fence within a fence (particularly an open wire fence) would not help.

 

Personally, I would not risk a dog repeatedly going into a yard with many foxtails. I'd find a way to prioritize making the yard safe before making a commitment to any dog. Although not every foxtail surgery is this expensive, a very difficult foxtail surgery can cost thousands, if the surgeon can find the foxtail to remove it before it penetrates an organ, possibly killing the dog.

 

Might be possible to use a bagged mower to suck up plant material as it's cut down, or use a leaf/debris vacuum to suck up debris, then remove from property for disposal.

 

Once foxtails are removed, might help to cover roots with solid plastic material to kill them off. Later when finances allow, if you want a lawn, start over with fresh top soil/seed, or roll sod, or install a realistic artificial turf (if you'd like to avoid on-going expense and time of mowing, watering, weeding etc.).

 

A free call to a professional landscape company (and maybe a veterinarian) to discuss NON-toxic options to kill roots of foxtails/weeds could be most helpful in this planning stage.

 

Good luck with everything!

[Guest HoundSmitten]

My parents had a potted oleander when I was growing up, that we kept outdoors in the summer and indoors in the winter. Our dog never bothered it. One year, however, I noticed behavior changes in our dog that didn't make sense. Not long afterwards I saw that she was drinking water that had collected in the oleander pot after a rain--with the dropped leaves steeping in it like tea! I immediately dumped out the water, and made a point of doing so after every rain fall--behavior problems dissappeared, problem solved. I think we were lucky, it could have been much worse. I learned that it is not just chewing on the plant that is dangerous, but be sure to rake up any shedded leaves or blossoms, twigs, etc. immediately, and fill in any puddles that might collect beneath the plants. Oleanders are beautiful, I see why you wouldn't want to remove them, but do take extra care with them.

 

Coincidentally I am in Long Beach today, staying in a hotel with my dog. I didn't know about foxtails, I will keep an eye out for them when we walk!

[Guest driveslikeagirl]

Well, our oleanders are huge and dropping flowers and leaves all around themselves, so I guess they should go. I can't keep up with cleanup. Ironically, they are on the side of the yard with no foxtails. Fencing off a small area will be difficult. I can't seem to get a break here.

 

I was surprised to see the foxtails come up in our yard after we moved in. They're common all over California's wilderness areas but they were never in the small front lawn of our rental house and I never noticed them in others' yards either. Even our neighbor's front yard that TOUCHES ours has no foxtails in it. Ummm, what? I need to ask them what they're doing! I think our new house's yard was neglected for many years before it was staged to sell, and the foxtail seeds may have been carried to it from somewhere else by all the squirrels that love to dig holes in our yard. When the previous owners seeded the grass and started watering... out they all came AFTER it looked beautiful for potential buyers! Sigh... You probably won't see too many foxtails on your walks in LB!

 

I think we will probably kill what's left of the lawn later this summer, put down a pre-emergent and then sod over it all a while later. After reading the SA threads I'm now terrified of getting a problem dog anyway, lol. When I put in my application at the adoption agency I think I'm going to have to specify "perfect angel bombproof well-adjusted confident solo dog only." I just don't think I can handle crazy SA dog destruction! I HAVE to go to my job for 8 hours a day. There simply isn't time to do slow, patient "away training" and all that.

[AZGreyGirl]

I used to baby sit by brother's two toy poodles -- one dog had no interest in my big oleander, one did. My new grey, Olivia, is a plant eater -- loves to nibble on grass/plants so I have to watch her and my yard carefully (no oleanders at this house). You are very wise to be doing your research now -- your new grey will love you for it!

 

Don't give up hope! I spent 1 1/2 years preparing and thinking of various problems/solutions/training ideas and wondering if a dog, specifically a grey, would be right for my situation and going "what if my grey eats my cat? what if she has separation anxiety for my 8 hour shift? what if? what if? what if?" My adoption group was excellent and matched me up with my perfect dog for my situation. There are so many people willing to help out and help make the dog's transition (and yours) go smoothly. I can't imagine my life now without Olivia -- she is my constant, but not needy, companion, just as requested!

[3greytjoys]

I know you wrote that it's too late to extract the foxtails. Just something to consider, sometimes it's not quite as bad when working from ground level vs. observing wide mature plants from overview.

 

One thought: It's VERY easy to pull foxtails from moist ground. Water lawn a couple of days, and again an hour before pulling up foxtails by their roots. (Grab a cluster of stems at ground level to pull plants straight up by hand.) They're shallow rooted, entire plants can stay intact, toss in trash can/leaf bag.

 

This clearing can go VERY fast when soil is moist. Single step solution. If you don't have time, you could ensure soil is watered, and consider hiring a gardener/conscientious teenager to remove foxtails by this root method. (If foxtails are already dry, wearing gloves/sleeves will help.)

[Guest driveslikeagirl]

AZGreyGirl, thanks for the encouragement. I know it will be worth it to wait as long as it takes for the right fit. It just seems like a lot of the adoptable descriptions say they need someone to be home a lot or need to have another dog buddy. We would like to add a kitten to our family also, and I thought it'd be easier to get a greyhound to accept and bond with a kitten (some encouraging YouTube videos seem to bear this out) than to get an older cat to accept and bond with an adult dog coming into the house. And we definitely don't want to get both at the same time!

 

3greytjoys, I totally thought I could pull them all out when I read they had shallow roots. I've already put in about 2 hours ripping damp foxtails from the yard, but it made what seemed like an insignificant dent. There's probably 2000 sq ft of lawn. I didn't water it much for the days prior though, only for about 20 minutes before I started pulling. Some came right out, some would just break off and leave the roots. Maybe with some deeper watering and some helpers it would make more of an impact. But I can't get my boyfriend to do such mundane things when he could be engineering a garden shed from scrap. Everybody loves pics -- here is the depressing state of the yard:

The right half is where most of the foxtails are concentrated, all around the edges of the stepping stones and interspersed throughout the grass. (We are rednecky car people, obviously...)

Edited June 8, 2012 by driveslikeagirl

[Guest greybookends]

If you are getting rid of the Oleander make sure you get all the roots. Dig them up or they WILL grow back bigger then before. When we removed the old mobile home from this lot to put in a new one I cut 2 to the ground to make the moving easier and just accepted that they were gone. They grew back bigger and better then before.

[BootsyCollins]

I don't even know what oleander or foxtails are, so if they are in my yard I don't know it. But Bootsy is still alive, so there's that.

 

Welcome to the world of greyhounds

[GeorgeofNE]

I used to live in So. Cal., and we had a really bad problem with a dog paw and a fox tail--

 

As to the cat/kitten/dog--

 

You can't assume a kitten is going to "bond" with a dog more easily than a cat. Some cats LOVE dogs. Some don't. And some dogs that are perfectly fine with cats get too worked up over kittens. You can understand that to a dog, there's a big difference between the quiet comings and goings of an adult cat, and the spastic nature of a kitten. If you've never had a dog before, I think it would be really pushing it to attempt a dog AND a cat right away.

 

I will probably be flamed up the wazoo for saying this, but Greyhounds are unique, and not for everyone. You've already stated you're not willing to have to put in the time to deal with SA. Well, how about housebreaking an adult dog? Teaching it about windows, mirrors, shiny floors, the ceiling fan. All of these things are foreign to most Greyhounds. You can't expect to bring in a Greyhound and head off to work on Monday morning and have it standing around wagging it's tail happy to see you 9 hours later right away.

 

Please be TOTALLY honest with whatever adoption group you choose to work with. And be prepared to wait a while for a dog that is as easy going as the one you're going to need.

 

Good luck!

[3greytjoys]

Thanks for the photo. It's a bit difficult to see foxtail height from the photo. Originally, I assumed the foxtails were tall/overgrown (1ft.). Either way (short or tall), it's a balance to ensure the soil is very well saturated (3"- 4" deep), but the plant stems have had time enough time to dry before pulling. The soil might be very dry and thirsty now; beginning to water more a couple of days before pulling mimicks a rainy pattern to soften clay or other soil types.

 

Re: the kitten, I agree with GeorgeofNE.

I'll add that even for experienced Greyhound owners, it can be challenging to adopt a young, energetic kitten with a Greyhound. (I'm more thankful for every birthday for one of our cats - who just turned 3 YEARS old. He's just now beginning to calm down a little.)

 

A kitten can be challenging for any dog breed, even more so with a newly retired Greyhound. Remember, Greyhounds are hunting sighthounds, trained to chase moving lures. Best scenario is an "inside only" cat. If a cat is allowed outside, it's often important (especially early on) to keep dog inside while cat is outside, and vice versa. A common saying re: Greyhounds is "outside = game on."

 

Yes, there are many hounds that coexist / tolerate cats, but newly retired Greys have been used to living in racing kennel crates, they are not accustomed to being disturbed by being pounced on by a small, rambunctious, furry creature, or having potted plants, lamps, tables, home decor knocked over on them. Again, many people do adopt kittens with fine success, but I would never leave a kitten alone with a dog, and I wouldn't expect dog+cat = true love.

 

Also, it would be very important for an adoption group to know that you would need a cat-friendly Greyhound (lower prey drive).

[Feisty49]

Re cat or kitten: I'd go for an older cat adopted from a rescue group that knows some of the cat's background, including whether it is dog tolerant. Older cats are much less likely to climb curtains, rip through the house and think the dog is a good thing on which to sharpen its claws. :--) I adopted my current cat 4 years ago when she was 8 years old. She's strictly an indoor cat and as my previous cats did, I expect her to live until she's 17 or 18. She is totally dog tolerant and Annie Bella is totally cat tolerant, but I know a kitten would have driven Annie Bella up the wall.

[Guest driveslikeagirl]

The foxtails have been inconsistently hacked off by our friend's borrowed lawnmower, since we don't own one yet. So now they're very short foxtails, which makes it that much harder to get 'em out. Less leverage when pulling!

 

I'll be sure to dump RoundUp all over the oleander roots... and probably the whole yard.

 

I don't think I have super unrealistic expectations. Being honest with an agency about what I'm looking for will only help me get the right dog, and I would request a cat-friendly dog because I would someday like to get a cat (and even if I don't end up getting a cat...doesn't hurt). There would be no reason to lie. Most greys around here come from foster homes where they have already learned about mirrors, stairs, house training, etc. rather than come straight off the track. (Don't foster homes usually handle this for most greyhound rescues??) I don't expect everything to be 100% perfect from the start though. I wouldn't expect that from any dog, be it a puppy or shelter dog or whatever. Coming into a new situation from somewhere else will always be stressful and require an adjustment period, and I'm happy to help it adjust and grow our bond! It just sounds like helping an SA dog adjust is probably beyond my capability at this point.

 

I also don't expect to get a greyhound and then get a kitten the next week, or the next month or two or six, and have that work out. I expect to have my own adjustment period to owning a dog, too! Any cat would be strictly indoors, as Long Beach is a terrible place for outdoor cats. Tons of cars, possums, raccoons, and other cats. I've just always had kittens and trained and molded them to my house rules. I also (human) toilet train my cats, which is a lot easier to start when they're young. In the end, it'll all depend on the personality of the dog. My friends adopted a calm 1-year-old cat to keep their existing dog (husky/shepherd though) company, and he has worked out well for them, so that's an option.

 

Maybe in the end I'll decide that one greyhound is great and not add another cat to the family! Not sure what's going to happen. My cat of 11 years passed away unexpectedly when we were in escrow on the house. So I never even expected to be mentally preparing for a dog this soon, because he was not cool with dogs and I thought he'd be around for another 10 years. I have terrible luck with cats... They have all had amazing personalities, and all had genetic defects and died relatively young (9 years, 7 months, 11 years). Thankful for the time I had with them, though.

[3greytjoys]

I'm very sorry that you lost your cat recently. I completely understand about toilet training kittens. I've toilet trained 9-10 kittens over the years, and it does make a big difference to begin when they are lighter weight, and younger. Our oldest kitty started training at about 7 months old, but a little older would have worked fine too (depending on the kitty's history, litter box vs. wild feral).

 

BTW, Round Up is a strong chemical, toxic to dogs, so limited use is safer if a hound will be in the yard. Good luck with everything.

[kronckew]

when i was in saudi our compound had lots of oleander in the decorative landscaping. we were told how deadly it could be. people have died by sleeping under it for it's shade, a few have died for using branches of it to cook hot dogs over a fire.doesn't take much sap to kill. nasty stuff. luckily my dog was uninterested in chewing on sticks & never went near it. flowers were nice, and if i remember, fragrant. i'd kill it all if i had it in my yard. do NOT try to pull it up or break it with bare hands, use gloves and discard them after use. any sap on them is too much. wash, scrub any sap off any tools used. be REALLY careful. as noted - even run-off from watering them is dangerous.

[juliemac]

Welcome to GREYTALK! We're all looking forward to hearing that you've adopted your (first) grey, and the requisite pictures as well! Thank you for taking steps now to get your yard safe for your dog ... and I'm sure you've read enough here to know that your yard could take a beating with greyhounds around.

 

Enjoy your new house as well ... and I'm sure you'll get the foxtails under control soon now that you're aware of them.

 

Please also keep in mind as you read the issues about separation anxiety on this site (or any other concern) that you're reading posts from people who need some help or advice, and that MANY of us have greyhounds that do not have SA. I have one grey who's a bit clingy, but he doesn't do anything more than whine for a few minutes when I leave the house (and then, only for a couple of minutes, and ONLY if he has an audience). He's fine with a simple Kong as a distraction tool until its time for his next nap. I just mention it because you could get overly concerned about issues that your new dog won't have. Also know that we'll be here (along with your adoption group) to help answer any questions or deal with whatever surprises come your way.

 

Welcome to the world of greyounds!

[Guest driveslikeagirl]

I toilet trained my cat at 6 years old! He was special though, and he always whined about having to balance on the seat to poop. He needed to have the last tiny remnant of the training tray there to paw on. But it's definitely possible to train at a later age with the right cat. I also tried with a 4-5 month old kitten who wasn't having any of it. The digging instinct was just too strong. He did end up being the most stubborn cat I've ever met.

 

Thanks for the tips, everyone. We will definitely be careful with chemicals if we end up having to use them to kill the yard. A friend recently reminded me that vinegar also works, which is a great non-toxic method, and probably cheaper than RoundUp, too! I had actually used vinegar on some weeds at the old house, but forgot about it. I always prefer to use home remedies (like soapy water for aphids) than more expensive chemicals or pesticides.

[3greytjoys]

I toilet trained my cat at 6 years old! He was special though, and he always whined about having to balance on the seat to poop. He needed to have the last tiny remnant of the training tray there to paw on. But it's definitely possible to train at a later age with the right cat. I also tried with a 4-5 month old kitten who wasn't having any of it. The digging instinct was just too strong. He did end up being the most stubborn cat I've ever met.

 

Thanks for the tips, everyone. We will definitely be careful with chemicals if we end up having to use them to kill the yard. A friend recently reminded me that vinegar also works, which is a great non-toxic method, and probably cheaper than RoundUp, too! I had actually used vinegar on some weeds at the old house, but forgot about it. I always prefer to use home remedies (like soapy water for aphids) than more expensive chemicals or pesticides.

 

Off topic reply: Wow, 6 years old - that was a special cat! We replaced all our concaved plastic toilet seats with straight level wooden seats to make it easier for the cats. (They prefer the solid level seats.) Interestingly, the cats human daddy custom-made an extra widewooden toilet seat for the cats to use as they become elderly. (Beautiful master craftsman work!) Even the teenage cats still preferred their "standard" width (store bought) wooden seats! (Figures.)

 

kronckew: Thank you for your service, and your valuable input re: oleander danger.

[Guest driveslikeagirl]

 

Off topic reply: Wow, 6 years old - that was a special cat! We replaced all our concaved plastic toilet seats with straight level wooden seats to make it easier for the cats. (They prefer the solid level seats.) Interestingly, the cats human daddy custom-made an extra widewooden toilet seat for the cats to use as they become elderly. (Beautiful master craftsman work!) Even the teenage cats still preferred their "standard" width (store bought) wooden seats! (Figures.)

 

I hijacked my own thread! My dad also made my cat a stable and wider flat wooden seat that could be placed on top of the regular seat. He didn't like it! I thought for sure it would've helped but I guess it threw things off too much for him. I always wondered what would happen when he became elderly and wouldn't be able to jump or balance as well, but I never had to find out in the end. His name was Turbo. A good name for a greyhound, haha. I think I saw someone with a Turbo on here.

 

Anyway, just spent all afternoon in the yard, including trimming back the oleanders. They are so big. Gonna be tough to get out, but we'll do it.

[3greytjoys]

Off topic reply: Wow, 6 years old - that was a special cat! We replaced all our concaved plastic toilet seats with straight level wooden seats to make it easier for the cats. (They prefer the solid level seats.) Interestingly, the cats human daddy custom-made an extra wide wooden toilet seat for the cats to use as they become elderly. (Beautiful master craftsman work!) Even the teenage cats still preferred their "standard" width (store bought) wooden seats! (Figures.)

 

I hijacked my own thread! My dad also made my cat a stable and wider flat wooden seat that could be placed on top of the regular seat. He didn't like it! I thought for sure it would've helped but I guess it threw things off too much for him. I always wondered what would happen when he became elderly and wouldn't be able to jump or balance as well, but I never had to find out in the end. His name was Turbo. A good name for a greyhound, haha. I think I saw someone with a Turbo on here.

 

Anyway, just spent all afternoon in the yard, including trimming back the oleanders. They are so big. Gonna be tough to get out, but we'll do it.

 

We have a ramp (and/or steps). Both worked well for the elderly, but all our teens were fully mobile until their last days.

 

Good luck with the yard...

[GreytNut]

I would suggest having a professional remove the oleanders so you know they're gone for good. They're not only toxic to ingest, but they secrete toxic oils that are readily absorbed through the skin and even the fumes from burning them are toxic. Best to leave it to a pro.

 

Even my cat safe hounds have shown an unhealthy interest in kittens. I think it's because kittens are tiny, make high-pitched sounds and bounce all over the place. They act much more prey-like than adult cats. A young adult cat might be a safer bet, and I still wouldn't leave them alone together. When I can't supervise the cats stay in one part of the house and the dogs in another to prevent any unfortunate accidents.

 

Adoption agencies don't always know for sure which hounds will have SA. We could've sworn my confident, happy Riley would never have SA. Brought him home and BAM! he was wailing as soon as I left his sight. But within a month he was settled down and all was well. SA doesn't usually last that long and you can help them by doing alone training, exercising them before you leave and giving them toys like Kongs to keep them distracted while you're away. Crating can help too. You might end up with a hound that has no SA whatsoever (though any dog will be nervous the first few times it's left alone in the house) but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater if your hound does show signs of it. It'll get better.

 

ETA: This will make your life much easier with regard to your foxtail problem. I have one of these and use it a lot. http://www.lowes.com/pd_46112-1078-78806935_0__?productId=3562496&Ntt=fiskars+weed+puller&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dfiskars%2Bweed%2Bpuller&facetInfo=

Edited June 11, 2012 by GreytNut