Serious Problem

[Guest PiagetsMom]

Thanks again to everyone for the great advice. I have read that newly adopted greyhounds can show sleep and/or space aggression, and if this were something that had taken place in the first few months that I had Ari, I wouldn't be concerned in the least. I had just been under the impression that after nine months she would be completely settled and comfortable with me. Thanks again for the replies!

 

Again, this incident doesn't really sound like sleep/space aggression. And, I wasn't being literal with the "let sleeping dogs lie" comment, but referring more to a pup who is settled and comfortable on their bed.

 

I agree with 3greytjoys - the tail area is a sensitive area for a many pups. Add to that a scrape that's maybe a little sensitive. I'll be honest with you - Maya has only been here for 6 months, but Mirage has been with me for almost 4 years and we know each other very well, and I still wouldn't do what you did to him if he were lying down and comfortable. I know there are pups who will tolerate almost anything - my bridge girl, Piaget was like that. I don't think I ever had a second thought about doing anything to her, but she was a very submissive girl.

 

If I'm handling Mirage or Maya in any way that I think might be uncomfortable, it's most certainly when they are up and standing and prepared for it. And, I do use a muzzle if I feel more comfortable with doing so.

[greysmom]

Bluntly, this was your fault, not hers. Use it as a learning experience. If she had want to actually bite you and inflict damage, she could have and would have. What you got was a warning.

 

If I returned every dog that snapped at me I wouldn't have any. Any dog can bite. At any time. There really is no such thing as a "bomb-proof dog" in every situation.

[Pepsi2004]

She was probably asleep and you scared her. Always make sure that your Grey is looking at you - I call Charlie's name before I do anything with him if he is sleeping. It happens with all breeds - don't feel that your girl doesn't love you.

[FiveRoooooers]

I'm sorry this happened. It is a good learning experience, tho, and you are getting lots of good advice. I will just throw in that 10 years ago the first time my first grey "air snapped" at me, it totally took me off-guard. I did have my face close enough to his that it frankly it scared the crap out of me. But he was not trying to bite me and I didn't see his smile that followed it. It's something that he does even now when he is being silly. He air snaps and then snuggles his head under my chin, back and forth, and I love it. Good luck to you, I know you can figure this out and have more good times with your girl.

[Guest WhiteWave]

 

If I returned every dog that snapped at me I wouldn't have any. Any dog can bite. At any time. There really is no such thing as a "bomb-proof dog" in every situation.

 

I would beg to differ with the bomb proof dog in every situation b/c I have had one. Zeus was solid as rock no matter what from the day he was born to the day he died. He would have died before he bit me and it didn't matter what was going on. I held his carotid artery together with my hand when he got attacked by a pit bull, I held his skin together after running under a boat trailer and ripping himself wide open to it looked like someone had pulled down his pants. I held him when he was in shock on a chainlink fence after jumping it and getting his toe caught until he could be cut free. I could go on, we spent 11 yrs together, me being the first thing that held him and the last.

 

And so far in 8 yrs, Casper has been bomb proof, even in a life and death fight with another Dogo. Most Dogos are, they were bred to be that way. I've seen hunters stitch them back together in the woods with no anesthesia, no muzzle, the dog just licking their face.

 

I just have very little tolerance for a dog that would bite me intentionally in any situation. I mess with my dogs when they are sleeping b/c 9 out 10 times, they are in my bed, beside me. I clip their nails, clean their ears, clean/treat wounds, stick my hand in their food bowl, etc. and if I had to use a muzzle to do those things b/c the dog might bite me, the dog isn't going to be living with me for very long. I have had one Greyhound that bit me 2x. I did keep him b/c he was a senior and we worked on his issues. He had lived most of his life in a house that let him rule the roost. But he learned to not to use his teeth on me and after those 2 incidents, we never had another issue with me. Now the other dogs, he never learned. Went to the E-vet more than dog I've ever owned b/c he thought he was a bada$$ and could take on dogs 2x his size and 1/4 his age.

[greysmom]

Respectfully disagree. Your dogs were not/have not been in a situation they felt necessitated a bite response. Not that they have experienced every single possible situation. I agree that the situations you describe would be likely to elicit this response in other dogs.

[Greydawg]

This is a good reminder for all of us to be careful around injured animals, including our own. It is so easy to become complacent with these wonderful animals and let our guard down.

 

Arielle, I am sorry that happened. It was bad luck that she happened to collide with your sensitive eye area; another part of you probably wouldn't have had much damage. I'll bet she was as surprised as you were that it happened. No doubt you were angry, upset and confused about it. From afar, it looks like she was acting instinctually and this is likely a one-time incident. I hope you can forgive her for acting like a dog and can move past it with more clarity and understanding.

 

Also, I hope both of your wounds heal quickly!

[KickReturn]

A little tough love:

 

Your dog is looking for confident, competent, trustworthy leadership from you. Crying for a couple of hours isn't that. Yes the incident is upsetting, but get passed it and get back to work being a good pack leader. If a part of you is upset because your dog's love for you suddenly seems conditional, well don't be. Like others have said it's not a personal thing, it's a dog thing. And if most Greyhounds have never bit their owners, well great. And for those that have had an incident, we learn from it and deal with it. Not a big deal (unless it is recurring).

Edited May 30, 2012 by KickReturn

[Guest WhiteWave]

Respectfully disagree. Your dogs were not/have not been in a situation they felt necessitated a bite response. Not that they have experienced every single possible situation. I agree that the situations you describe would be likely to elicit this response in other dogs.

 

Then what is appropriate situation to elicit a bite response????? Severe injury apparently is not. So it ok for one dog to bite b/c you snip their toenail a little too short, but another dog not if his entire body is ripped wide open???? I guess I just expect more from my dogs.

 

How about when Zeus kept getting blood blisters and we had no idea how he was getting them. Long story short, my friends kids who staid with us b/c no one else would keep him had been pinching him so hard, he was creating blisters full of blood on his back. He was doing it at nap time all snuggled up with Zeus like he was being sweet, all the while pinching the crap out of him. Zeus would just get up and move after a while. He never once tried to bite him nor any other thing for any reason no matter how bad it was. Of course we put a major stop to this, but he never even growled at the kid. Just got up and moved away from him.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Why do Greyhound people think dogs that bite for "no good reason" are poor sweet babies and should be coddled? Ridiculous. No other breed person I know would accept that garbage!!!!!

[turbotaina]

Why do Greyhound people think dogs that bite for "no good reason" are poor sweet babies and should be coddled? Ridiculous. No other breed person I know would accept that garbage!!!!!

 

I don't see anyone here recommending coddling the dog. A responsible pet owner would try to figure out what the triggers to the biting behavior are, manage interactions/triggers and work on training. Some dogs never "get over" certain behaviors (sleep startle, e.g.), so responsible pet owners work around those behaviors and learn how to avoid incidents. I can tell you that in very, very few circumstances do dogs bite for "no good reason". What you may consider a good reason and what the dog may consider good reason may be two different things. It's our jobs as the humans with the big brains to figure out what the problem is and then figure out how to fix it or how to manage it.

 

OP, sorry this happened to you, but I agree with Batmom, Kennelmom and others. Take precautions, respect the dog and don't take it personally. My new boy bit me on the back of the head (he got my ponytail, so I was uninjured) when he was comfy cozy on the futon and I leaned over him. He let me know he wasn't comfortable by giving a little growl first, but I stupidly ignored the warning and went about my business (sniffing the futon to figure out if the cat peed on it). He snapped and got the back of my head. Totally my fault. I had a fairly bomb-proof dog before, so this took me aback, but he did warn me, fair and square I don't hold it against him and neither to I think he's a bad dog or a dog that needs to be "corrected." He's a dog who is very vocal about what he does and doesn't like and we respect each other. I know it can hurt your feelings a bit, but really, as others have said, if your pup wanted to hurt you, she could have.

 

Take a deep breath, chalk it up to a learning experience and keep chugging along. You'll be fine

[JJNg]

Dogs almost never "bite for no good reason" (the only ones who do usually have an underlying neurologic disorder). More likely, the people involved in the situation didn't understand natural dog behavior and body language. And just because we don't understand or agree with the reason, doesn't mean the dog didn't have a good reason to bite. It is not coddling to attempt to understand why a dog bites, respect the dog's perspective, and work to avoid bites by teaching the dog there is no need to be defensive.

 

Just because there are some exceptional dogs who have the ability to tolerate outright abuse and severe pain without becoming aggressive doesn't mean that is something we can or should expect of all dogs. Each dog is an individual with their own temperament and threshold. Dogs that are more sensitive and have lower thresholds of tolerance are just as normal as the dogs that are 'bomb-proof'.

 

Dogs are individual living creatures with their own emotions, needs, and desires. IMO, to live harmoniously with another species and fully benefit from the relationship, respect and understanding needs to go both ways. And I believe most would agree that we humans are the more intelligent species, and we are the ones who have chosen to bring another species into our homes. As such, I feel that we have an obligation to make the effort to understand the dogs' perspective and help them learn the rules of human society without condemning them for behaviors that are perfectly normal and natural in canine society.

[Guest Arielle]

So I've thought about it, and I think I was being dramatic about the whole thing. I think I was just upset about other issues that I have going on right now, and the bite incident just added to the stress. I have done many things to Ari that people have mentioned on here that would elicit a bite from some dogs: clipping nails, cleaning ears, drawing blood, picking off ticks. I even removed sutures from her once, with not even so much as a growl. I'm going to respect her space from now on, especially when she's on the bed, but I think I'm just going to treat this as an isolated incident since she must have been in a lot of pain for this to happen. She has a vet appointment tomorrow, so I'm going to ask them to take a look at her tail and make sure there are no fractures.

 

Another somewhat unrelated question. Three days ago, my roommate (who just moved in about two months ago) brought home two eight-week old kittens, and it seems that Ari is having some trouble getting used to them. She lived with a cat once before, but he was old and crotchety and they kind of just avoided each other. She has been trying to avoid the kittens, but being kittens they are pretty much insane and are constantly racing all throughout the house, making it difficult for her t keep her distance. She has growled/barked at them three times now. The first time, she was walking by one of them and the kitten hissed and swiped at her. I don't really blame Ari for this, because it's natural for dogs to defend themselves. The second time I wasn't home, but my roommate claimed that Ari was eating and one of the kittens kept trying to get at her food. She has never shown food aggression before, either towards people or other dogs, so this is strange. Is food aggression something that you're supposed to correct, or is that natural behavior? The third time I was in my room and I heard her bark. I went into the living room and the kitten had run under the couch to hide, so I don't really know what happened.

 

Any advice on getting her used to them? We lock the kittens in the laundry room any time we aren't home, so they are never together unsupervised, but I would like to get to the point where we don't have to do that. Thanks to everyone who has read this saga!

[BootsyCollins]

I wouldn't call that food aggression. I would call that "get the F out of my food you little s---."

[turbotaina]

Kittens are crazy little predators with sharp teeth and sharp claws. I can't blame Ari for getting upset with them. Cats and kittens are very different, as you know. Your roommate needs to do a better job at supervising the kittens and not let them pester Ari. I wouldn't correct the growling at the cat over the food - kitty's got no business being there and she was warning the little thing to stay away. Is there any way that your roommate can keep the kittens in her room?

 

I'm afraid that until the kittens are much older (6 months to a year), they're going to be super playful and do what kittens do (randomly attack things).

[Greydawg]

Two 8-week old kittens? O boy. (Heavy sigh) Seems like a lot to ask of a Greyhound, or any dog for that matter.

Ari sounds very well-mannered, under the circumstances. My guys would have zero-tolerance with the kitties.

 

Her growling/barking are warning signals - her way of communicating her displeasure with their actions. I don't know if baby cats have the capacity to understand that they are in a danger zone when a dog gives them warning signals, and that is where the humans must make sure ALL the animals are protected.

 

I am glad Ari and the kittens are separated when no one is there. My strong advice is to be extra-extra diligent when you and/or your roommate are there. Keep the kittens from bothering Ari, especially when she is in her space, like when she is eating and sleeping. I would not leave them unattended for even a minute. Otherwise, this could easily escalate to a tragic outcome for all.

[Greydawg]

Another thought: When we are under stress, we react in ways we wouldn't normally. You said so yourself in post #38.

 

Maybe Ari lunging at you the other day when you lifted her tail (which was out of the norm for her) happened because she has been under so much stress putting up with the little ones.

 

Take heed: This is another sign to keep those kittens away from her. She needs to feel comfortable in her own home and she needs to see that the humans of the household are protecting her best interests.

 

I hope you and your roommate will be of like-minds on this issue. You both need to be unified in keeping every animal safe.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Greydawg

[NeylasMom]

Another thought: When we are under stress, we react in ways we wouldn't normally. You said so yourself in post #38.

 

Maybe Ari lunging at you the other day when you lifted her tail (which was out of the norm for her) happened because she has been under so much stress putting up with the little ones.

 

Take heed: This is another sign to keep those kittens away from her. She needs to feel comfortable in her own home and she needs to see that the humans of the household are protecting her best interests.

 

I hope you and your roommate will be of like-minds on this issue. You both need to be unified in keeping every animal safe.

Jean Donaldson's book Culture Clash does an excellent job of explaining growl/snap/bite thresholds, but basically each dog has a point at which they will growl, snap or bite. Some dogs bite thresholds are much closer to their growl/snap thresholds, which is why some dogs aren't good about giving warnings. And stress from multiple factors compound to get essentially get a dog to their bite threshold faster. So the stress from constantly dealing with kittens that are terrorizing her had probably already pushed her closer to her threshold. For all we know, she reacted because she thought a kitten was "attacking" her hind end.

 

Although, kittens removed from the situation, I would say if you were laying on the bed and a friend of yours came up to you and suddenly spread your butt cheeks without warning, how would you react? It really isn't any different.

[BootsyCollins]

Well if she was John Travolta, she'd be thrilled

[turbotaina]

...

Although, kittens removed from the situation, I would say if you were laying on the bed and a friend of yours came up to you and suddenly spread your butt cheeks without warning, how would you react? It really isn't any different.

 

But true.

[JJNg]

Given the additional information, I was also thinking that overall stress probably contributed to Arielle's reaction. If I got the timeline right, the bite happened the morning after the kittens were brought into the home. And the OP also mentioned that she's been upset about other issues going on. Especially knowing how sensitive dogs can be to our moods, this could also have contributed to Arielle's stress level.

 

I find that when we're assessing the situation around a bite incident, it's very easy to forget about the one underlying factor that may be most important - the dog's overall stress level. It is easy to look at the incident in isolation and forget the everything else that goes on in a dog's life contributes to their behavior and reactions. Even knowing that stress affects behavior, it can be hard to make the connection between stress from an unrelated incident with a specific aggressive outburst.

 

I initially clued in to this when I kept a journal on my reactive IG, and I realized that most of his aggression directed toward me happened within a few days of some other stressor, such as having company over, or a public outing where he was exposed to strange people or dogs (he was very undersocialized). And as I've talked to clients about behavior problems, I've also noticed a tendency to see aggressive behavior happen shortly after the dog is stressed for some other reason - a move to a new home, a traumatic encounter when out on a walk, turmoil in the household, etc.

 

When we consider that stress causes physiologic changes in the body that take time to dissipate, this pattern is not surprising. We see this in people all the time. For example, stress at work often spills over into a person being more short-tempered and intolerant at home, or vice versa. Dogs are no different. And some dogs, just as some people, are more sensitive to these effects of stress than others.

 

Here's a good article with more information about canine stress.

[Guest newgreymombeth]

I've had my hound for 2 months and he's snapped at me several times. Each time was when I was trying to check out an injury. Did it hurt my feelings? Well, yeah. We obviously want our dogs to not snap at us and bite us. But was it deserved? I think so. I was definitely doing something he didn't like. I entered his very personal space and I was trying to poke and prod at something that was hurting him. Wouldn't you snap, too? And each time he snapped at me, he was not sleeping. He was wide awake. I wasn't near his face at the time, but had I been, I would have gotten bitten, too. I learned that the bed is NOT a good place to investigate injuries. I now check things out when he's standing and he has his muzzle on. I go in with confidence and tell him what I am doing. I honestly do not blame him for snapping at me. I think people except far too much from dogs. They aren't human beings. They can't communicate with words. They react with fear because they are wired to do so. If someone starting lifting up my leg to check out a wound, clearly uninvited, I would definitely tell them to stop and defend myself. Dogs can't speak, so they do what they know and they growl, snap, bite. You really can't hold that against them. I think the most important thing is to make sure you are not putting them in the position to react like that. This is especially important with children.

 

When I was growing up, we had a dog that snapped and bit my cousin. My cousin was provoking the dog and no one stopped him. My parents' never said, don't do that to the dog. The dog was annoyed and upset and it did what it knew to do. My cousin needed stitches and you want to know what happened to my dog? My dad had the dog put to sleep. I was honestly too young to understand what was happening. Now that I am older, I feel so bad for that dog. A child provoked it, an adult never corrected the child, and the dog suffered the consequences and lost its life.

[Guest KennelMom]

We raised a greyhound puppy from birth in a pack of 20 adult greyhounds...many of whom are not small animal friendly or landed in our house due to "aggression issues" towards people and/or animals. Supervision really is key. Most "aggression" people see from an adult animal to a baby animal is normal communication/lesson teaching/correction when the baby animal is being a a rude brat (behavior sometimes seen as "cute" in the eyes of some people).

 

She has been trying to avoid the kittens, but being kittens they are pretty much insane and are constantly racing all throughout the house, making it difficult for her t keep her distance.

 

It's really the humans job to make sure the adult dog isn't harrassed and annoyed by the baby animals. Would you be OK with someone sending their 2 and 3 year olds over to your house to run wild while you were trying to eat dinner or sleep?

 

She has growled/barked at them three times now.

 

This isn't aggression. It's communication. Adult animals are likely to try to teach baby animals proper manners.

 

The first time, she was walking by one of them and the kitten hissed and swiped at her. I don't really blame Ari for this, because it's natural for dogs to defend themselves.

 

Normal.

 

The second time I wasn't home, but my roommate claimed that Ari was eating and one of the kittens kept trying to get at her food. She has never shown food aggression before, either towards people or other dogs, so this is strange. Is food aggression something that you're supposed to correct, or is that natural behavior?

 

I wouldn't consider this food aggression. It's really rude for one animal to steal food from another animal and usually warrants a VERY strong reprimand. Our dogs are not allowed to "bowl jump" or steal food from another dog that's eating. The humans ARE able to take food away from a dog. Very different relationships though. Again, the humans really should make sure that Ari's food is protected from the kitten while she's eating. She clearly doesn't want to share. And that should be OK.

 

The third time I was in my room and I heard her bark. I went into the living room and the kitten had run under the couch to hide, so I don't really know what happened.

 

Leaving baby animals unattended with an adult that isn't their mom is really NOT a good idea. Esp animals of different species. Supervise at ALL times. Just being in the house isn't supervising.

[JaneW]

9 months... I had Greta for a year before I kissed her on the head, and then I took precautions! Her body language always indicated that hugs and kisses were not welcome and she had clamped down on my arm when I had been stupid and leaned over her head to scratch her. Now, after 8 years, I can hug and kiss her with impunity, but it took years for her to get used to it and not mind. Only 9 months, with, it appears, various other stress going on? I hope everyone is ok and feeling better now!

[Walliered]

Muzzle Ari.