To Crate Or Not To Crate?

[Guest verthib]

There are those dogs that will injure themselves and physically destroy a crate trying to get out of it, but are fine and well-behaved if left out of the crate. In these cases it's a no-brainer to just go with the flow and ditch the crate, unless you care to spend serious time and effort (and possibly money) helping the dog through the underlying issues that cause the panic in the crate.

 

For dogs that simply don't care for the crate...well it's my opinion that it's my house--my rules. I don't care if they are reasonably well-behaved if left alone in the house. If I feel it is safer for my dogs to be crated in my absence, then in the crate is where they will be whether they pout about it or not.

 

Especially considering that whether they are in a crate or not 3/4 of the time they'll be sleeping what difference does it make whether they are sleeping on a bed in the livingroom or sleeping on a bed in their crate? The crate removes nearly all chances of the dog unexpectedly getting themselves into trouble in the house.

 

In the decades I've owned dogs, I have both crated and not crated and can see both sides. I don't feel, however, that people looking for advice should be made to feel guilty because they choose to crate--no matter the reasons. I'm new here, but I have definitely seen some strong anti-crate bias which I feel is unfair to others who love their dogs just as much as anyone else here and is only looking to care for them in the best manner possible. For some, that equals crating.

 

Thank you! Great post.

 

 

 

I would prefer to leave him uncrated if he is happier that way and can be trusted. I feel I can assert my dominant position in ways other than confining him to a crate..

 

I would just like to point out that crating a dog in no way means we are asserting our dominance-- AT ALL. I do it for my hounds' and cats' safety. The goal is safety and peace of mind while you're gone. If they come right from the track, they might *want* the comfort of a crate for a while. We kept the door to Angus' crate open when he came home and he kept reverting back into it for comfort. When we leave we close the door. My dog's love their crates. They often sleep in them while we're home with the doors open and if we give them a bully stick they just go in there and chew away.

 

Edited to add that you might try leaving the crate door open so he can go in if he'd like. Let *him* choose what makes him happy.

Edited January 17, 2012 by verthib

[Fostr_Mom]

I use an ex-pen across extra wide doorways, shut doors to rooms I don't want the dog in while I am gone, and make use of both crates and muzzles where needed.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

There are those dogs that will injure themselves and physically destroy a crate trying to get out of it, but are fine and well-behaved if left out of the crate. In these cases it's a no-brainer to just go with the flow and ditch the crate, unless you care to spend serious time and effort (and possibly money) helping the dog through the underlying issues that cause the panic in the crate.

 

For dogs that simply don't care for the crate...well it's my opinion that it's my house--my rules. I don't care if they are reasonably well-behaved if left alone in the house. If I feel it is safer for my dogs to be crated in my absence, then in the crate is where they will be whether they pout about it or not.

 

Especially considering that whether they are in a crate or not 3/4 of the time they'll be sleeping what difference does it make whether they are sleeping on a bed in the livingroom or sleeping on a bed in their crate? The crate removes nearly all chances of the dog unexpectedly getting themselves into trouble in the house.

 

In the decades I've owned dogs, I have both crated and not crated and can see both sides. I don't feel, however, that people looking for advice should be made to feel guilty because they choose to crate--no matter the reasons. I'm new here, but I have definitely seen some strong anti-crate bias which I feel is unfair to others who love their dogs just as much as anyone else here and is only looking to care for them in the best manner possible. For some, that equals crating.

 

 

Well said, and yes there are a lot of ANTI-Crate people here. I think it has something to do with the fact that people associate crate with punishment, as opposed to using it as a safety device (same reason the anti-crate people tend to be anti-muzzle). I think also a lot of people think that the racing greyhound was crated in similar fashion to what we commonly call "puppy mills". I like you can see both sides of the argument, but when you are using the crate for a safety device, there is no argument.

[Guest Geostar]

Well, the racing greys recognize the crates as their own private "cave". Actually, it is pretty routine for them: the males are crated on floor level and the females leap above them to get into their crates..due to the fact that most females are lighter than the males. I've spoken to other adoption kennel facilities and they even inform me that many owners, around the area, board their dogs with them. The dogs love it! For the boarders, it's like a reunion on sorts! After all, don't children have their 'own' bedroom? Are these dogs, or any, any different from them? We ALL need a place to relax in and feel secure. A crate is not supposed to be used as punishment; any more than a child's bedroom.

 

Here's another question:

 

1. Who uses the folding steel crates?

 

2. Who uses the large plastic carriers?

[Guest verthib]

Well, the racing greys recognize the crates as their own private "cave". Actually, it is pretty routine for them: the males are crated on floor level and the females leap above them to get into their crates..due to the fact that most females are lighter than the males. I've spoken to other adoption kennel facilities and they even inform me that many owners, around the area, board their dogs with them. The dogs love it! For the boarders, it's like a reunion on sorts! After all, don't children have their 'own' bedroom? Are these dogs, or any, any different from them? We ALL need a place to relax in and feel secure. A crate is not supposed to be used as punishment; any more than a child's bedroom.

 

Here's another question:

 

1. Who uses the folding steel crates?

 

2. Who uses the large plastic carriers?

 

Large steel crate here.... I am sure some will disagree, but the plastic carriers do not have a large bottom like the steel crates, and they are more "enclosed" and feel claustrophobic. I would rather have my hound be able to see in all directions, and lay down with legs stretched... then if they need some more "cover" just put a blanket on the back half of the crate. My personal preference.

Edited January 17, 2012 by verthib

[Guest Eyeblaura]

We have a large steel crate with a nice fluffy quilt in it set up in my kitchen. We leave the door open, the children know they are not allowed to bother the dog at all if he is in the crate and they are not allowed to go in the crate. He has never gone in the crate on his own.

[muddgirl]

I wonder if the reason Batman hated his crate is because he trained but never raced? He also dislikes his muzzle and wearing a coat (although those two are non-negotiable). My guess is that he just doesn't have the same positive associates as dogs that fully raced. We have been working on making those positive associations with the crate (because we need to be able to safely crate him if we travel), and he's definitely getting better, but he'd still rather not be in the crate if we're not around.

[Hubcitypam]

OK...I will tell you what I firmly believe.

 

Being crated at the track with 71 of his closest friends and kennel help coming and going is a whole 'nother ball of wax than being crated in a living room alone for XXXX hours. WAYY different and some dogs don't do well with it. I know of adoption groups that suggested what amounted to me as abuse in suggesting crating a new dog 20 something hours a day "because they're used to it".

 

If I've had shy or spooky dogs the crates were here with the door open. Girl that just went to the bridge never raced and loved her crate with the door open or my closet that she claimed as her own.

 

Large steel crate here if needed. The Varikennels don't let much air in and as Verthib said a blanket can easily make it more secure if the dog needs it.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Hubcitypam

[Guest Eyeblaura]

I always tell my dogs, "Guard the house"

I tell mine to "have a boring day." I don't like the way the house looks when they've been having too much fun.

 

 

I like both of those!

 

Also didn't mean for this thread to turn into a for or against crating debate. Whatever works for you and keeps everyone safe and happy! There do seem to be some very strong opinions on this board regarding crating or not.

[Hollis]

I always tell my dogs, "Guard the house"

I tell mine to "have a boring day." I don't like the way the house looks when they've been having too much fun.

 

 

I like both of those!

 

Also didn't mean for this thread to turn into a for or against crating debate. Whatever works for you and keeps everyone safe and happy! There do seem to be some very strong opinions on this board regarding crating or not.

 

 

yep

[Guest Geostar]

Not to worry about having your opinion! There are all sides to it, and your opinion is valid for you. I do care enough about my fellow greyhound adopters/volunteers to let them know that all opinions are appreciated..even..LOL if I did make my statement, too. What we ALL want for our hounds is the very best..wouldn't you agree? Besides, if they could speak, I'm sure, without a doubt, that they would agree with tails wagging!

the best to all

 

=star

[Guest Eyeblaura]

Not to worry about having your opinion! There are all sides to it, and your opinion is valid for you. I do care enough about my fellow greyhound adopters/volunteers to let them know that all opinions are appreciated..even..LOL if I did make my statement, too. What we ALL want for our hounds is the very best..wouldn't you agree? Besides, if they could speak, I'm sure, without a doubt, that they would agree with tails wagging!

the best to all

 

=star

 

 

Agreed!

[Guest ctgreylover]

I have one that has SA. Tony does better crated when alone. If left out of the crate he barks whines and pees on things. crated he is quite and does not have accidents. Violet, although she is chewing things I dont want chewed on such as remotes and shoes, is fine not being crated.(she would chew in front of me if I was not watching her) I just have to learn to pick up my stuff. I do baby gate the stairs as DD is not as good at picking up her things.

If the dog does not mind being crated and its better for you, crate.

If the dog does not like being crated or you dont mind the occastion stuffie being attacked, dont crate.

unless there are clear behavior issues, I feel crating vs not crating is a personal choice.

[JenniferS]

I think it really depends on the dog. I've had 4 greyhounds, 2 were never crated, 2 were. The first crated boy ending up never really needing it, but I knew nothing about him, and wanted to make sure he was okay with my other dog and my house. I crated him for about two weeks. It actually makes me laugh now, because he ended up being the best dog EVER and really never needed to be crated, but you never know.

My current girl has been crated since we brought her home in July. She has not yet proven herself to be safe outside the crate. She chews everything and has gotten into so much that could've potentially hurt her, and that's when we are there with her! The crate is safer for her right now, and she now loves going in it because she always gets some tasty treats in her kong when she goes in. I hope to let her have run of the house someday, but she is not ready for that yet.

No matter what people think of crating vs not-crating, etc, we owe it to her to keep her safe, and right now, the crate is the best way to do that.

Good Luck

Edited January 18, 2012 by JenniferS

[Guest verthib]

OK...I will tell you what I firmly believe.

 

Being crated at the track with 71 of his closest friends and kennel help coming and going is a whole 'nother ball of wax than being crated in a living room alone for XXXX hours. WAYY different and some dogs don't do well with it. I know of adoption groups that suggested what amounted to me as abuse in suggesting crating a new dog 20 something hours a day "because they're used to it".

 

If I've had shy or spooky dogs the crates were here with the door open. Girl that just went to the bridge never raced and loved her crate with the door open or my closet that she claimed as her own.

 

Large steel crate here if needed. The Varikennels don't let much air in and as Verthib said a blanket can easily make it more secure if the dog needs it.

 

I agree about the whole 'nother ball of wax. And 20 hours?! Way too much. We start really slow with lots of positive reinforcement. And like others have said, some just don't do well in a crate. If we leave all day, we put them in our bedroom with a gate. We only crate for a max of 4 hours. On a typical day they only spend 2-3 hours in the crate. I got my Foscam working! And all they do is sleep!

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

I won't weigh in on the crating matter, since you already have the full spectrum here. But I wanted to address what you said about him learning what is his, and what isn't. It has been my experience, that they never really learn that particular concept. They will always try to push the envelope and sometimes you will have one that obsesses over an object until they have it. Plus with kids, you are always going to have NEW fun stuff to explore. My example: my mom and daughter were planting flowers in my back yard last spring. One of the dogs came over to see what was going on, and my mom shooed her away. Mom tolerates my dogs, and is nice to them, but she really isn't a dog person. Now, what do you think happened? My dog spent all summer digging those plants out of that particular pot!! Only that pot! If she had let her sniff them, and then walk away, no obsession would have been acquired! What I do is, let the dogs sniff stuff they seem interested in. Don't completely block his access to the play room while you are home. If he picks up something that isn't his, just say "ah ah" and take it calmly from him. Forbidden fruit is wonderful!! Use his muzzle when you aren't home, which isn't full proof, but will help. Put up an X-Pen accross the big doorway. Plus, now you will have an X-Pen to use when you take him to your groups picnic

 

Edited because I can't spell and need to go to bed!

 

Also, It's been my experience that greys usually don't mind being gated OUT of a room, they don't like to be gated IN sometimes!

Edited January 18, 2012 by 4dogscrazy

[Guest Eyeblaura]

That's exactly what we have been doing. He has access to the playroom when we are home and he does go in and grab things and carry them out. We have been telling him "drop it" and giving him a toy that is his instead. So far he just seems to be moving stuff and hasn't chewed on anything else. We are blocking the door when we leave. So far he hasn't bothered anything else *knock wood*

 

I will look into an x-pen never heard of them before joining this board.

[Guest Geostar]

Oh, they are a wonderful tool, too! We used the pen inside on the kitchenette floor when our late Grace was so ill for about a year. It worked well, but, like you, never thought of using one inside the home.

Best wishes..

[Guest Eyeblaura]

What size x-pen do you all have? Looks like they come in varying heights, I am thinking I don't need anything too tall to block off the playroom but if I am going to use it in the future as an actual pen I want to make sure it is tall enough. He hasn't proven himself to be a big jumper or climber at this point.

[Guest Geostar]

Ah, let's see.. our x-pen is about 18-inches high. I think they'll also come in a larger size, too. They come in either siz or eight panels. What's neat about them is that you can either have a square, rectangle, or circle..depending on how many 'panels' you want. The lovely thing, too, is because the panels are attached by 'pins', you can add more, and the whole thing folds up nicely for storage. I also would make it as 'comfy' as possible for your grey with a heavy sheet of plastic underneath an old comforter and fleece throws..not to mention the bed. We used ours to control the boundaries of our eldery greyhound, Grace, which had some back issues. She wasn't a jumper or climber either. The pen gave her room to stretch out..should she want..and still in an area where we could keep an eye on her. Hope that helps..

-star

[Guest verthib]

That's exactly what we have been doing. He has access to the playroom when we are home and he does go in and grab things and carry them out. We have been telling him "drop it" and giving him a toy that is his instead. So far he just seems to be moving stuff and hasn't chewed on anything else. We are blocking the door when we leave. So far he hasn't bothered anything else *knock wood*

 

I will look into an x-pen never heard of them before joining this board.

 

 

Personally I wouldn't allow access at all. We don't allow access to our den because it's the cats' "safe room", and has their food, etc in it. We just have a gate with a door that we use to go in and out. They know that room is off limits, period. Allowing him to go in and sometimes get toys, and then correct him just puts him through needless correction IMO. My dogs know that the den is off limits. A few times I have forgotten to close it, they have not gone in. They stuck their head in, looked around, and then walked away. They know...

[OwnedBySummer]

My x-pen is 42". I wouldn't want it any shorter. Mine is by Midwest, is the black model and has a walkthrough door. I use it a lot when we go camping.

[kudzu]

We have/use both plastic & metal crates. Some dogs who either don't like or get too warm in the plastic crates may prefer the metal ones. The metal ones also seems to have more areas for the dogs to catch a toe. Metal crates do fold up flatter so might be easier to move & store. Others who want a cozy, secure den feeling might prefer the plastic. These also offer the dog more protection from drafts. You can change the door on most plastic crates to make it either right or left opening. Later you can use it without the door so the dog still has a den without a door sticking out. Can use the bottom half as a dog basket. Multiple plastic crates can be nested for storage. When traveling if the dog doesn't ride crated you can stash gear inside the crate without taking it apart or when door & top are nested inside bottom. If you don't know which your dog prefers I may suggest a metal one. You can always use a sheet or blanket to cover the crate or just add bumpers on the inside.

 

We have three metal xpens, 24", 42" & 48". For events I usually prefer the 42" pen. All my larger dogs have stayed in it. (smaller non-Greys have climbed out) The 42" is easier to fit in the car/van, carry or move around & I like that I can reach over it with ease. On the whole dogs see less likely to attempt going over a 48" giving some more piece of mind. Though you can attach a metal, mesh or cloth cover to any size crate to limit the possibility of escape. The 24" pen is extremely convenient for use in the house to serve as a movable baby gate though dogs who hop baby gates will hop over this one as well. If I were to have only one xpen I would choose the 42". That is the first size I bought & is still my fave. An xpen is one of those things I cannot imagine doing without now. I'd ranked it among man's greatest inventions.

 

FYI, none of my have doors in them. Doors can be helpful in some instances but overall I much prefer not having the added weight or additional spot for accidental escape. Also, despite the added weight I will always choose the ones made from thicker gauge wire with the possible exception of the 48" one because it would be so much heavier to carry.

[cleptogrey]

i personally like to make sure that my dogs can be crated when ever necessary.

 

having 2 young children your dog needs his "space"- a crate where the children are not allowed- off limits to humans. it's nearly impossible to keep all the kid's stuff tidy 100% of the time. when you need to get that playdough up- a crate works really well. also, as the children have playdate the crate might be a lifesaver for the kiddies who are not dog friendly. your creating a win-win sitation- a space for your dog to always have as his own and a safe space when kids are running thru the house and you just don't have enough eyes to watch everything.

 

my non-track grey doesn't care what type or size of crate as long as he has a crate. when he is getting a treat, he's conditioned to "kennel up" and runs in....yes as soon as the lid of the cookies jar is off. my track dog won't go near the vari-kennel and gave me stink eye when i receintly needed to crate her as i monitored my other dog's water intake. 2 marshmallows later and she was lying in the crate waiting for more marshmallows. when company comes over w/ young children my track dog is relieved that she can "stay away" from the chaos. when i travel- crates go along- my family loves that fact that we can go out w/o worrying about the dogs.

 

it's finding a spot for those darn thing that stinks!