Keeping My Dog

[Guest sheila]

While I am very grateful for all of the helpful replies, I take extreme offense to the insinuation that I am not fit to be a vet because I am not committed to my dog. I have owned dogs, cats, horses, and goats all my life, and never once have I re-homed one. If I wasn't committed to dogs and animals in general, I wouldn't have signed myself up for four years of hell and $150K in student loans. My uncertainty about keeping Ari stems entirely out of concern for HER. If I thought that her anxiety was something that would go away in time, there would be no doubt in my mind about keeping her. My concern was that it was something that would only be cured with a lot of effort, which I simply do not have time to give right now. If I wasn't committed to her, then I wouldn't have stuck it out for four noisy months and would have re-homed her after the first week.

 

To say that you would not have a vet that re-homed to animal (in other words, one like me) to me seems like a direct insult. I am honestly trying to make the best decision possible for my dog and there is absolutely nothing about insulting me that is helpful. Thank you to those who posted nice, helpful replies.

 

When you post on an internet message board you are going to get a variety of responses. Some will be of value to you, others will not. It is the nature of things the virtual world. Taking 'extreme offense' to opinions YOU ASKED FOR is a waste of time and spirit. Take what you value and ignore what you don't. Don't scold anyone for saying what you asked to hear.

 

(walks away grumbling after reading yet another post from a whiner who asks for advice and then disregards it all and poops all over those who took the time to reply)

[Guest verthib]

Personally I would not have adopted her knowing I would be going through school and residency. I work at a hospital WITH RESIDENTS and many of them have dogs that shouldn't have dogs. Their dogs are alone 12-16 hours a day. This isn't the next 8 weeks, it will be YEARS. The only way I would consider keeping her is to get another grey as a friend. I don't think I could ever have an only dog again, much less an only dog during busy school and residency.

[jaym1]

i dont know any of the back story here, and messageboards tend to be anything-goes environments, but telling this woman that you'd fire her as your vet over this at some hypothetical point in the future isn't exactly on topic where the matter at hand is concerned.

[krissy]

The way I feel about vet school is this: I will sacrifice a percentage or two in order to enjoy my pets. Why? Because why the hell am I going to be a vet if I can't even have any of my own? To me that is absolutely stupid. I decided to become a vet because I love animals, because I love looking after animals... including my own! I've had lots of people tell me I shouldn't have gotten a dog in 3rd year vet school (first year is the most time you will ever have, p.s.). My point is that I'm not going to have much more time after I graduate so why wouldn't I have pets now? I find time whenever I can. Tomorrow I get off at noon. Finishing at noon in FINAL year is an absolute luxury. I'm going to take the dog for a 2 hour walk and get the bunnies out for cuddles. Other days I'm gone from 6AM to 9PM. I get home to walk and feed somewhere in there, but I'm not legitimately home until late and I don't particularly give him attention. I'll pet him and talk to him, I'll throw a toy for him a few times. But I don't fuss over him and take him for a long walk. He's the kind of dog that can deal with that. I did my research and I got a bounced, middle aged dog that I knew had no SA and was happy as an only dog. Most people in my class have dogs, and most of them have MUCH higher maintenance dogs than I do and their dogs are still happy enough.

 

Consider that Ari may be feeding off YOUR anxiety. Chances are that when she first came home you were a little nervous about how she'd settle in. The first few weeks are anxious weeks to begin with anyway. My foster greyhound definitely barked and was anxious when we left for the first week. But being calm and with constant reassurance from our adoption group that it was normal and that as long as we kept up the alone training things would smooth over... he settled right in and had no anxiety. You were anxious, she was anxious. The longer she was there the more anxious you got about how she was settling in, and that made her more anxious... vicious cycle.

 

ETA: I really should not post when I'm writing up management recommendations for a swine herd AND watching NY Ink at the same time. The point I was trying to make was this: 4 years of vet school are very long, and yet so very short. They are tough, trying times, but also some of the best you will have. Your marks in first and second year pretty much mean squat... unless you need a scholarship to pay your tuition. And none of your marks matter if you don't want an internship. I'm not saying you scrape by. I just mean that losing one or two percent because you studied an hour less to deal with your pets... is really not a huge deal. I know that's hard to accept because in first year your brain is still so geared to "must get the highest mark possible". I also know that vet school is still somewhat competitive in the States. When I visited OSU I was totally unimpressed with how competitive and cut throat they were... even to a visitor from Canada who has no intention of competing with them for internships. That said... in first year the difference between 90% and 92% is... negligible.

Edited January 6, 2012 by krissy

[vjgrey]

i dont know any of the back story here, and messageboards tend to be anything-goes environments, but telling this woman that you'd fire her as your vet over this at some hypothetical point in the future isn't exactly on topic where the matter at hand is concerned.

 

It isn't about a hypothetical point in the future. It's about expecting someone who claims to be committed to animals generally and who committed to this hound, specifically, to live up to that commitment.

[robinw]

i dont know any of the back story here, and messageboards tend to be anything-goes environments, but telling this woman that you'd fire her as your vet over this at some hypothetical point in the future isn't exactly on topic where the matter at hand is concerned.

 

It isn't about a hypothetical point in the future. It's about expecting someone who claims to be committed to animals generally and who committed to this hound, specifically, to live up to that commitment.

Things things happen. I know this is cliche, but it's hard to judge unless you've walked in the other person's shoes. Vets are people, too, and face the same frustrations as the rest of us.

[mychip1]

At one point when I had my Jack, I was out of hte house for 10-12 hours a day during the week. Sometimes, DH would be in town, but there were times he went five days straight like that with just he and the cat....and maybe an occasional visit from my parents. But when I got home, he was the center of the my world...we went for rides, walks, had snuggles, etc. I felt guilty at times, but I truly believe that he knew how much I loved him. When the opportunity came along for a schedule where I could pop in and out more, I took it....but until that point, I know he felt secure that he was loved and an integral part of this household.

[Guest june]

OK, Let me approach this from a different angle. What kind of a support system do you have? Are your family close? Friends who might take turns helping out? Boyfriend who might help out? These are questions for you to contemplate. I guess I'm trying to tell you that you don't have to do everything by yourself.

 

I returned to school after many years to complete a BA and MA. I remember how determined I was to do everything myself. I was working full time and taking full time classes until a friend sat me down and had a talk. I learned a valuable lesson; I had people who wanted to help me if only I'd let them.

 

School is a huge commitment and you have to do that work yourself. But, you may very well have others out there who want to or are willing to help you out with some other things so you aren't so overwhelmed.

 

One last question: What was in your heart that made decide to adopt Ari?

 

Good luck whatever you decide.

june

[Guest verthib]

Again, I would just not have a dog if I was gone 10-12 hours per day. It's just not fair to them. Period.

[sweetdogs]

Why can't Ari help you with your studies? Certainly you'll be taking a behavioral course someday. You'll have a leg up having worked through some issues with her. Problems like you're having will also certainly pop up when you're in practice (unless you're headed to research). Everything we deal with is a learning experience. This can turn out to benefit both of you.

 

But if you don't want to/don't feel you have time to work through this, let her go to another home.

[krissy]

Again, I would just not have a dog if I was gone 10-12 hours per day. It's just not fair to them. Period.

 

This is inappropriate, IMHO. You have people on this board who have already said they leave their dog for 10-12 hours a day. You are basically calling all those people bad dog owners. Myself included, and personally I'm going to take offense.

 

The reason I have long hours, days from hell, and on call shifts that result in my being at the clinic almost 24 hours at one stretch is because people have animals that they love and expect vets to be available at the drop of a hat 24/7. And I am happy to do that. However, I don't appreciate being called a bad dog owner or being told I don't deserve to have a dog because I willingly put so much time and effort into treating other people's pets. Emergency calls are either the most rewarding or the most frustrating for a vet. People are either SO grateful that it makes it entirely worth being called in from 3AM to 6AM and having to come back half an hour later for appointments... or so frustrating when someone expects you to live at the clinic and doesn't even say thanks, or when you say you have to go home to feed and walk your dog... that you shouldn't have a dog.

 

People sometimes have schedules they don't like or can't control. If someone starts with a 9-5 job and gets a dog and then 2 years later their job changes and they have to work 12 hour shifts... that's unfair to the dog so they should rehome the dog right?

 

We all do our best for our pets. We would have a lot more homeless animals out there if everyone without an "ideal" schedule didn't own animals. I do my best for my pets, as do all the other people on this board who work longer shifts than they would like. It's not ideal but it certainly doesn't make us bad owners.

[seeh2o]

Time and patience is key when you first get a greyhound. Everything always works out if you have these 2 things.

:nod ...and commitment.

[seeh2o]

Again, I would just not have a dog if I was gone 10-12 hours per day. It's just not fair to them. Period.

I respectfully and vehemently disagree with you. I strongly believe Carl and Claire would as well if they could give their opinions. There are many many of us who work long days, but that does not in any way make us bad or unfair owners.

Edited January 6, 2012 by seeh2o

[Batmom]

I think you need to sit back and consider:

 

- Do you love the dog?

- Do you cherish the dog's companionship?

- Are you committed to providing good care for the dog (which might mean arranging for a dog walker when you have very long hours, etc.)?

- Do you feel the dog is reasonably content in your environment?

 

If the answers are all yes, then no reason to give the dog up.

 

If the dog weren't content -- for example, had severe SA or certain other behavioral/medical issues -- then my advice might be different. Some people/households are well equipped to work with certain issues, and some aren't. I would rather see a dog go to a better suited home than to spend years learning bad habits, receiving poor care, or being unnecessarily drugged to the gills in the name of "commitment."

[Guest verthib]

And you have every right to disagree with me just as I have every right to disagree. Please don't put words in my mouth though. I never said 'you' or 'they' shouldn't have a dog, I said I wouldn't. It just doesn't feel right or fair to me. And I have to go by what I feel is best for my dogs, just as others do. We just have different standards. If I suddenly had a 'shift change' I would then (and have) hired a pet sitter. I cannot imagine having my dogs 'hold it' for 10, 12, 14 hours a day just as I cannot myself hold it that long so I would not subject my dogs to that. Again, we all have different standards...just don't put words in my mouth. If you scroll back you'll see *many* responses that are harsh-- but honest. As one poster put it, starting up a comment or question does open up the field for all sorts of responses, some of them being not what people want to hear. It's life.

[krissy]

And you have every right to disagree with me just as I have every right to disagree. Please don't put words in my mouth though. I never said 'you' or 'they' shouldn't have a dog, I said I wouldn't. It just doesn't feel right or fair to me. And I have to go by what I feel is best for my dogs, just as others do. We just have different standards. If I suddenly had a 'shift change' I would then (and have) hired a pet sitter. I cannot imagine having my dogs 'hold it' for 10, 12, 14 hours a day just as I cannot myself hold it that long so I would not subject my dogs to that. Again, we all have different standards...just don't put words in my mouth. If you scroll back you'll see *many* responses that are harsh-- but honest. As one poster put it, starting up a comment or question does open up the field for all sorts of responses, some of them being not what people want to hear. It's life.

 

Just because a dog is "alone" for 12 hours doesn't mean they don't get out to the bathroom. If I can help it I come back to walk my dog and then I go back to school. Others might have dog walkers, or a dog door.

 

I never put words in your mouth. I said others have said it to me and I don't appreciate it considering how much of my time I give them that could be spent with my dog and family. You basically said it was unfair to a dog. That basically implies we are all being unfair to our dogs and that our "standards", as you put it, are inferior to yours. Maybe that's "putting words in your mouth" because you never actually said it, but there is certainly an implication there that was intended and obviously several people took offense to that implication. It wasn't "honest" it was just mean and unnecessary... not to mention having nothing to do with the OP's real problem. But that's just my opinion, and if her concern is that the dog doesn't get a potty break for 12 hours some days fine, and to that I would say you can almost always find 5 minutes to get home to let a dog out, ask a friend to do it, hire a dog walker on long days.

 

Don't think because you've committed your life to other people's animals that you can't commit to your own. And don't judge her quality of life based on what other people think. Judge it based on the fact that you alone know her better than anyone else, and you alone know your schedule and abilities better than anyone else.

[Guest verthib]

Listen, I posted my opinion. One statement. Along with opinions of many others who were more direct and/or harsh. To pick mine apart and make this thread an argument is a little ridiculous. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I guess I can expect to see you start to pick apart everyone else's but unfortunately I need to get to bed. I'm just not interested in bickering. I hope you have a great night.

[kudzu]

Again, I would just not have a dog if I was gone 10-12 hours per day. It's just not fair to them. Period.

If you work full time & have any amount of commute you will easily be gone from home 10 hours on a work day. The right person matched with the right dog could make that work while keeping the dog happy, healthy, & comfortable. It all depends on the dog, owner & the particular circumstances.

 

My impression is that the OP is concerned she does not have the right match. It is also possible she underestimated just how hectic things would be. I certainly wouldn't judge her poorly when she is trying to keep the dog's best interest at heart. The OP clearly cares about the dog's feelings. I would worry more about someone who doesn't bother to keep the dog's emotional health in mind.

[kelseysmom]

Again, I would just not have a dog if I was gone 10-12 hours per day. It's just not fair to them. Period.

If you work full time & have any amount of commute you will easily be gone from home 10 hours on a work day. The right person matched with the right dog could make that work while keeping the dog happy, healthy, & comfortable. It all depends on the dog, owner & the particular circumstances.

 

My impression is that the OP is concerned she does not have the right match. It is also possible she underestimated just how hectic things would be. I certainly wouldn't judge her poorly when she is trying to keep the dog's best interest at heart. The OP clearly cares about the dog's feelings. I would worry more about someone who doesn't bother to keep the dog's emotional health in mind.

 

Well said!

[Guest Arielle]

All right, let me first apologize for opening this can of worms. I did not mean to create so much animosity. I do appreciate any advice, even if it isn't what I want to hear, I just don't really see what me considering whether my home is the right one for Ari has to do with my commitment to being a veterinarian. To me that has nothing to do with anything and is just insulting, but maybe I jumped the gun.

 

I guess some more backstory is required to clarify... I first met Ari when I started volunteering as a dog walker in the blood donor ward at the teaching hospital at my school. I was struck by how quiet and sweet she was, and my heart went out to her because every time I brought her out to be walked she started shaking until we got outside, as if she was terrified that I was going to bring her to be stuck with needles. The guy in charge of the blood donor ward told me that she had been there for over two years, longer than any of the other greyhounds, and they had been trying to find a home for her for a year now and if they didn't find one soon she would be euthanized. I know several other people in my class who have dogs and they make it work in spite of our busy schedules, so I thought I would do the same. I admit that I didn't know the first thing about greyhounds and didn't do enough research, but the guy assured me that greyhounds are extremely lazy dogs and would be perfect for a busy student. Had I found this forum before and found out about the host of issues that newly adopted greys can have, I probably would have made a different decision, but I can't change that now.

 

So the reason that I adopted Ari was because I loved her and I wanted to rescue her, and I love her more than anything still. Which is why I have come here. If I gave the impression that I'm fed up or unwilling to work with her, I'm sorry but I didn't mean to give off that vibe at all. My real question, the one that I guess I didn't do a very good job of phrasing before, is will she settle down in time? Is her anxiety simply a result of being in a completely new environment, or is it because of my lifestyle and the fact that I'm gone eight hours per day? If it is the former, I am more than willing to stick it out, but if it is the latter then I want to do what's best for her.

 

Usually when I get home I take about two hours before eating dinner and hitting the books to walk her, let her run, and just spend time with her. On weekends we do at least one outing to the park. I agree wholeheartedly with Krissy that I would rather take a hit to my grades and have a life outside of school that includes pets. I do enjoy our daily walks and just having her around.

 

In conclusion, sorry that this is so long. If I came across as a flaky commitment-phobe, I apologize, and I apologize again for getting everyone so riled up. But once again, thanks to everyone for the advice.

[jaym1]

I would appreciate any advice anyone has to give, no matter your opinion. Thank you!

 

 

And that is what I did, sorry if I was mistaken in the no matter your opinion, but I did give you mine. My feelings are stated honestly. No one said you were not fit to be a vet, you would just be one that I would not use.

 

she was asking for the general opinion on keeping a dog from the members of greytalk. not what anyone thought about how fit she was for her chosen career. i cant imagine you were saying you wouldnt use her as a vet because she was TOO competent. the implication was purely negative, and not related to her question, which is serious and pressing. it seems that this is what she was responding to.

 

in any event, i am a neophyte in these matters, but my dog has already shown great improvements. he was right off the track when i got him, and was in shock with respect to just about everything: smooth floors, stairs, reflections, weird noises, car rides, free time, alone time. . . everything. if i have learned anything, its that these things take time, especially with these dogs.

 

in my opinion, what you are describing is a dog that no one would adopt that spent two years living in a kennel or cage, getting constantly stuck with needles. it was a dog that was in serious danger of being euthanized. it sounds to me like you quite literally saved the dogs life, and are making an effort to put it in a healthy, nurturing situation. no, it is not 100% optimum, but im sure it beats being used as a blood donor and living in fear of everything. IF you are truly committed to the dog, i believe you can make your schedule work, and over time i think you can probably help this dog along, especially if you fall back on the support systems described above, along with maybe some daycare, dog walkers, etc. and if you need to give the dog medication at some point just to help her along. . . lets keep in mind where she came from, and keep a level-headed perspective on this whole thing.

Edited January 6, 2012 by jaym1

[kudzu]

A lot of us college students or recent grads got dogs (of all breeds & mixes) only to find out there were behavior issues with our new adoptees & we totally misjudged the many turns life could take so early in our careers. Some of us rehomed the dogs but many of us kept our dogs, adjusted our lives & ultimately made it a win-win for human & dog. I did it, as did my sister, her roommates & quite a few of my friends. If you think Greys can have problems you should see all the messed up shelter dogs. Where there's a will there is often a way. At this point I would say give it another week or two before solidifying your decision since it sounds like she is possibly turning a corner.

 

One of the best things you can do for your dog is set up a routine. Even if you cannot keep a set schedule a routine order of at least some things can be enough for some dogs. My first Grey, Venus, was fine as an only dog her first year. Usually BF works from home & is in the house with her though he is upstairs, out of sight in his office. When he had to work on a client's site though V was home alone for at least 10 hrs at a time. She showed absolutely no change in behavior & got into no trouble at all during the work days. That is until the one night when I had a non-dog event after work. I adjusted my schedule that day so I could drive the 1 hr home to let V out for potty & exercise before driving back into the city again. That night I came home to a mess. My Miss Perfect Candonowrong managed to pee on the carpet, poop on the hardwood & chew up a throw rug! Took a few days before she was comfortable while I was leaving in the AM but after that all was fine & I learned my lesson. I called the critter sitter the next time BF was out of town & I needed to do something after work. V knows the critter sitter drill & had no problems with that. It was me flying in the house, rushing around to care for her & then whisking back out that threw her off & caused her anxiety.

 

However, should you decide your home & life really is not right for this dog then do let her move on to another home sooner rather than later. That is not said to rush you into a decision. It is just an expression that waiting too long to decide or postponing what you might already feel is inevitable is not helping anyone. Yet it sounds like things are not inevitable at this time so a week or two more may be appropriate. Wishing you all the best.

[Guest PhillyPups]

I would appreciate any advice anyone has to give, no matter your opinion. Thank you!

 

 

And that is what I did, sorry if I was mistaken in the no matter your opinion, but I did give you mine. My feelings are stated honestly. No one said you were not fit to be a vet, you would just be one that I would not use.

 

she was asking for the general opinion on keeping a dog from the members of greytalk. not what anyone thought about how fit she was for her chosen career. i cant imagine you were saying you wouldnt use her as a vet because she was TOO competent. the implication was purely negative, and not related to her question, which is serious and pressing. it seems that this is what she was responding to.

 

 

 

There are a lot of "competent" vets in my area,there is one practice I choose to use. I choose my vets carefully. My choice in vets is based on competency and also on their bedside manner, their commitment to their animals (both their pets and patients) and the feelings shown towards the animals. I never questined the competency, just whether I would choose to go there or not. I never said she was fit or unfit for her chosen career, but I did say I would not choose to use her. As happens on message boards, I gave my opinion of the whole post not just one specific question. Last I checked I am a member of greytalk, so I gave my opinion on what struck me as an important issue.

[Guest iconsmum]

Okay, the elephant I see sitting here in this post is that you are contemplating giving up your dog due to whining and pacing and you are going to be a VET??? How would you look at one of your patients who their people bounced for the same behavior? Vets work long hours (at least mine do, evenings and Saturdays too), do you think that will make your scenario easier?

 

Personally, if I found my vet returned a pet they made a commitment to, I would change vets, after all if they could not commit to their pet how would they be with mine?? My vets have cried with me when I had to let my one boy go due to cancer, they are gentle, kind and love my dogs, that is why I have them as my vets. They are committed to their patients.

 

I am not meaning to be harsh, it seems it is my writing style, but I am being honest.

 

If you continually flip-flop on keeping her bouncing her, do her a favor and let her find a home where her people are committed to her.

 

Oh, and the obligatory

 

Agree with this ...no way would I ever have a vet that could not keep their commitment to a single pet.

 

And... what GeorgeofNE says....you are in for several years of long days and nights.

 

 

 

 

Have to say, agree with these two posts. because it was exactly what I was thinking too...however, if you don't want the dog, for gosh sake do her a favour and find someone else that does

 

Do what is best for your DOG...not what is best for you.

 

Have to say, agree with these two posts. because it was exactly what I was thinking too...however, if you don't want the dog, for gosh sake do her a favour and find someone else that does

[JJNg]

- Do you love the dog?

- Do you cherish the dog's companionship?

- Are you committed to providing good care for the dog (which might mean arranging for a dog walker when you have very long hours, etc.)?

- Do you feel the dog is reasonably content in your environment?

 

If the answers are all yes, then no reason to give the dog up.

Ditto. I was planning to reply with pretty much the exact same questions, until I saw Batmom beat me to it. GMTA

 

I would also add the question of - Do you feel Ari is forming, or has formed, a bond with you?

 

If the answer to all these questions are yes, I honestly feel that most dogs would prefer to stay in their home, if they were given the choice. I see many owners who claim that the answer to all the above questions are yes, but they still want to find the dog a new home because they feel they don't have enough time to provide the dog with what he needs. IMO, this is often just an excuse for someone who really isn't committed and is trying to justify getting rid of the dog to themselves. Dogs are very flexible and if they are bonded to you and content in the home, they will adjust fine to periods of less attention and interaction.

 

You mentioned that Ari's whining has mostly resolved in the past week, and she's much calmer now. So why are you still considering giving her up? Others have already mentioned that it takes time for a new dog to settle in, and it sounds like Ari's finally getting there now.

 

I know several other people in my class who have dogs and they make it work in spite of our busy schedules, so I thought I would do the same.

I believe more of my vet school classmates had dogs than not. You can definitely make it work. I had a rather needy dog in vet school, the very fear aggressive, reactive IG I've mentioned in other threads. I'd gotten him my junior year in high school, but he stayed with my parents for 4 years when I went out of state for college, and I got him back when I started vet school.

 

I added my 2nd dog my senior year of vet school, right after my first rotation, which was orthopedics. I knew ortho would be very intense with long hours, and my 2nd rotation was an externship at a very laid back local practice, which is why I chose that timing. That 2nd dog was Corey, the black mix I still have now; he was a research dog at the vet school (nothing bad - a study on the effect normal doses of NSAIDs have on kidney function). Sure, there were times when my dogs were alone for longer hours than I would have preferred, but they adjusted and I believe they were content.

 

My real question, the one that I guess I didn't do a very good job of phrasing before, is will she settle down in time? Is her anxiety simply a result of being in a completely new environment, or is it because of my lifestyle and the fact that I'm gone eight hours per day? If it is the former, I am more than willing to stick it out, but if it is the latter then I want to do what's best for her.

The answer obviously depends somewhat on the individual dog, but in most cases, yes, they will settle down with time. I don't believe the majority of dogs need owners who are home with them most of the day. Stress can cause anxiety, hyperactivity, and even increased reactivity (perhaps what you were seeing at the dog park). And moving to a new home after living for 2 years in a kennel as a blood donor is certainly a change that will be stressful.

 

My work schedule includes 4 days out of the week where I am at the clinic for 9-11 hours. On those days, sometimes I get home at lunch, sometimes I don't, depending on how busy it is. Even on the days when I'm not able to get home at lunch, my dogs are fine. When I get home in the evening, they run around the yard for a few minutes, a couple come in and play with toys inside for a few minutes, and then they pretty much sleep the rest of the evening. (Not counting dinner time and another trip outside before bedtime.)