Dogs Being "pack" Animals

[Guest ashphobiax]

ive been very interested in the whole idea of the pack idea but i was just wondering what everyone else thinks about the idea? i personally do not think they are.

 

do you think dogs are pack animals?

[TheFullHouse]

Yes, they absolutely are pack animals. Just watch when one of the members of the pack has a seizure and the rest try and kill it. The idea is to get rid of the weak link so the pack stays healthy and strong. I unfortunately have had to save my seizure boy twice from the rest of my pack when he had a seizure. I've also had my pack go after a small dog. Now my pack lives with a small dog just fine but just one member went after an unfamiliar small dog and the rest followed his lead. My boy Valentino is the leader of my pack, I am the ultimate leader but he is the canine leader and my dogs follow his lead.

[OwnedBySummer]

Be at a greyhound playgroup where they are running free and you will be VERY glad they are muzzled! When one trips and falls and screams... the rest are right in there and have to be physically pulled back. If the screamer won't stop screaming, that dog needs to be carried out of the enclosure so that the others will stop trying to kill him/her.

 

Oh, yes, they are pack animals and can easily show you their pack mentality!

Edited December 31, 2011 by OwnedBySummer

[gazehund]

Oh Lord yes. If you can appreciate the breed and what they are truly hard-wired to do, then watching a pack of greyhounds hunt is a stunning thing of beauty. Better if the prey gets away.

[christinepi]

It definitely is interesting--what specifically about the idea of a pack is it you're asking about?

 

From what I've read, mostly in John Bradshaw's book "Dog Sense", there is a considerable distinction to be made between a domesticated dog pack and a WILD wolf pack in the sense of what purpose it serves and how it's structured. This may not be what you're asking; just a thought.

 

I'm curious--not questioning or challenging--why you're of the opinion dogs don't subscribe to the idea of a pack?

[Trihounds]

Be at a greyhound playgroup where they are running free and you will be VERY glad they are muzzled! When one trips and falls and screams... the rest are right in there and have to be physically pulled back. If the screamer won't stop screaming, that dog needs to be carried out of the enclosure so that the others will stop trying to kill him/her.

 

Oh, yes, they are pack animals and can easily show you their pack mentality!

 

I have personally witnessed this exact scenario! It happens, unfortunately, and the humans better be quick to attend to the fallen / injured one before instinct gets the better of the situation.

[Guest KennelMom]

uh. yeah. they most definitely are pack animals - their desire to be bond to a pack is critical to their domestication and all the things we ask/expect of them.

 

HOWEVER, a domesticated dog is NOT a wolf...and a dog pack is not a replica of a wolf pack. The wolves that allowed themselves to be domesticated were quite different than their wolf brethren that didn't. The modern dog is sorta like a wolf trapped in a juvenile stage of development. There are definitely similarities between wild wolves/wild dogs and domesticated dogs...but, they aren't a one-to-one translation.

Edited December 31, 2011 by KennelMom

[Batmom]

Yeah, they'll pack up pretty readily under the right stimuli.

 

That said, there are many greyhounds (and other dogs) who get along just fine as only dogs, who aren't interested in socializing at playgroup, who totally go their own way at the dog park .....

 

So it really depends on what you mean .

[Guest zombrie]

Absolutely they are pack animals. I have 4 dogs (2 greys and 2 nongreys) If one moves to a different room, they all do. If one goes somewhere the others get very upset. If all 4 go on a walk and different people are walking them at different paces, they get very upset that they aren't at each other's sides. If one cries/screams (usually my big baby Doolin ) the others jump him. It is very interesting to watching them interact with each other, especially when Mira and Caesar are hunting chipmunks And, they and much happier together than when they are alone.

 

I don't know how many dogs you have but I'm guessing you have to actually have to have a real pack for it to show that they are in fact pack animals.

[christinepi]

Do these incidents (one group descending on a victim) happen only with groups that already know each other (so they already have established a group mentality)? Or could this also happen with dogs who have just met as a group for the first time? In other words, is familiarity a condition?

 

I don't mean to start a separate thread--I'm just trying to learn from others exactly what goes on in dogs' minds when in groups, since I'm a beginner dog owner and don't have much experience.

[TheFullHouse]

My dogs tried to pack up on a little poodle running outside an enclosed baseball field. Unfortunately one of my dogs found a way out and the others followed him. I only had 5 at the thank goodness and there were 4 adults pulling dogs off the little dog. It was my first experience with a strange dog and scared me to death. The little dog was fine by the way. Emmy was my pack leader then and she was a hunter. It's never happened again and this was about 7 years ago.

[MaryJane]

ive been very interested in the whole idea of the pack idea but i was just wondering what everyone else thinks about the idea? i personally do not think they are.

 

do you think dogs are pack animals?

 

 

You mentioned that you don't think they are --- care to elaborate why not

[3vagreys]

I was at a greyhound event where they had a fun run. When they were running, one dog fell and screamed. Immediately about 75 dogs who had never seen each other before were coming in a wave. It was the most amazing thing. They were determined to get the hurt dog. The dog had no lasting injury. I think it just twisted a leg.

[Guest PhillyPups]

Mine all follow my every move with their eyes, or up and right beside me if I am in motion.

 

But it was interesting to watch mine when I took them to playgroup, they stayed as a pack within the pack. My ultimate leader here in the dog pack arena, is AnnaBanana during a hunt, unless it is the hunt for a soft bed.I t was amazing to watch, not pretty, but how they act during a hunt was amazing to see. Just certain movement or ignal from AnnaBanana and they all new what to do. In the home, shAnnaBanana is very laid back, and the only one to really listen to me. But she is very attentive to everyone. The ouse boss in the is LadyLu. I find the boys are just good butt followers (thank GoD because if my boys do indeed share a brain, they are usually playing hide and seek with it).

 

A lot of the dynamica has to go with whatever task at hand. The leadership can and does change here. I do not have anyone challenging anyone else's authority here, because they all know I am the ultimate one who controls the cookies.

[Guest KennelMom]

Don't confuse hunting instinct with pack instinct, though they may occur together and play off each other - and are even inter-related. Even a single greyhound (or any dog) can/will turn on ANY animal that's squealing...though some breeds are going to be less prone than others based on our selective breeding for certain temperaments. Being with other dogs tends to make that behavior come out even more, though. It happens so quickly, I think it's instinctual and irrelevant to whether the dogs know each other.

[Neighsayer]

I had a 13 year old deaf chow. one day she fell down the three steps to the dog pen and cried out. I had to use a broom to prevent my 3 greys and a golden from killing her. What saved her was the heavy fur coat she had. There were huge chunks of fur all over the steps from the others biting her. I ended up with 4 or 5 bites on my hands, a couple were even from her. Once i got her standing and got the others off her, they all went about their normal business like nothing had happened. She wasn't hurt, but had very little fur left on her neck and on one leg. A naked thin skinned greyhound would have been dead. I was out there with them when it happened, but there was no way to stop the pack.

[dobelvr]

Over the last 15+ years I've had 4 large dogs of different breeds living together. If one started chasing down a rabbit or squirrel all 4 joined in, There has always been a pecking order decided within the group with me being the pack leader. The dynamics of the pack change as the dogs change. They all have distinctive personalities. My current group has no specific canine leader but that may change as my female dobe gets older. I base that on my previous female mix being the canine pack leader of her 3 dobe brothers. They are all respectful of my old guy. My pack did not pick the dogs I brought into the home but they have all accepted each other. I know this acceptance doesn't always happen but I kind of compare this to having a roommate that you didn't choose but are stuck with. You usually work out the living situation. That being said feral dogs do run in packs but you will find lone animals. I think dogs in general require companionship and do seek out companions. I've never had the opportunity to visit a greyhound kennel but I'll bet those who have can report dogs that pair up and hang out together during turnouts. My 12 year old grey is content to be by himself and never really cared if there was another dog around. My 8 year old grey prefers my company but needs another dog around when I'm not home. My 2 year old male dobe prefers my company and would be happy as an only dog. My 1 year old female dobe likes me and her dobe brother about the same .

[BatterseaBrindl]

Having owned mulitple large breed dogs for many, many years, I agree with everyone else.

YES...dogs are most certainly 'pack' animals.

 

Just spend an afternoon at any dog park and watch....

[EnzaFerrari]

Oh god yes. I was at a dog park - a large one with lots of room - with a friend and our two greyhounds. We tended to maneuver our dogs away from groups of dogs playing as the greys just wanted to smell and pick up sticks. This time we watched one dog pin another - and it was game over. Every dog in the park came running over. My friend and I jumped into the middle of it to start pulling dogs off of each other as the other owners kept saying they were "just playing". Uh. No. The pinned dog was okay but had some blood and that is when everyone realized what was going on. Oddly our dogs just kept smelling the grass.

 

However, another time I was walking the same two greyhounds near an open field. A woman had her small puppy playing with two standard poodles that I have found to be aggressive. I just knew something was going to happen so tried to walk quickly away. But the puppy suddenly took off and pretty much right in front of me, the two poodles attacked the puppy. The reaction from the two greyhounds was stunning - hair on the back of their necks stood up, they started growling, and lunging. It took all of my strength and then some to pull them away. Again - all the other dog owners thought they were "just playing".

[Guest ashphobiax]

I heard with there own breed they can form a pack, but as for a house full of mixed breeds I also read that they do not have the pack idea. I also read a lot about the whole pack idea and with domestic dogs it's been so far bred out that's its very rare. I although could see it with the same breed dogs in a house.

[TheFullHouse]

We have a JRT and she was one of the worst when Saint had his seizures. Dogs are dogs no matter what the breed and they all have the same basic instincts.

[Guest Vers]

ashphobiax, I may not be alone in being confused as to whether you are discussing pack theory or alpha of the pack theory. If it is pack theory we are talking about, yes, I agree with it, it certainly does exist beyond breed AND species boundaries, and if you want sources to read further, just let us know.

 

Pack instinct is incredibly strong, even among dogs who don't know each other. Look further into your question.

[Guest jbbuzby]

I 100% believe that dogs are in fact pack animals. I have seen it with my own eyes over and over and have used pack mentality to my advantage when training.

 

Specifically, I worked at at dog daycare where the dogs were kept "cageless" in an open pen. Let me tell you, there would be NO WAY those dogs could be kept under control if it weren't for pack mentality. Us, the human caretakers would watch over the pen, interfering at the slightest inappropriate or provoking behavior. When bringing in new dogs unfamiliar to the group, you needed to walk in the pen swiftly, calmly, and with utmost confidence and correct any dog who objected; if you didn't correct that one dog who instigated anything with that dog, they would quickly all join in and get at the poor new dog. You needed to be the leader to influence all the others and stop any pup from thinking otherwise. If done successfully, they'd accept the new dog with little hesitation.

 

To me, the concept is elementary, tested and proven in practice again and again. But, to each their own, I guess.

[Guest Lovey_Hounds]

I heard with there own breed they can form a pack, but as for a house full of mixed breeds I also read that they do not have the pack idea. I also read a lot about the whole pack idea and with domestic dogs it's been so far bred out that's its very rare. I although could see it with the same breed dogs in a house.

 

I have personally seen my dogs hunt out small non-domestic animals in the yard they worked as a pack no competing with each other at all they worked together. when they small animal was caught Vegas was the first the take a bite of the poor animal. I will agree some breeds of dogs may not understand the idea of pack dynamics many of those breeds are "companion" or toy breeds that have had all the instinct bred out of them, now hounds and terriers and such very much have their instincts because many breeds with in those groups are still bred for a true purpose other than basic human companionship.

Greyhounds have been bred for thousands of years to chase and hunt mostly as a pack so they will understand the idea of pack dynamics and living with it.

[philospher77]

I remember being at the dog park with Trinkett, my incredibly sweet, kind, non-reactive greyhound, when someone brought in a very fearful dog. I'm not sure exactly what happened, but the new dog squealed and bolted under a bench with every dog in the park on his heels, including my girl. I do note that she just sort of hung back at the edge of the pack with a confused look, and was easy to call off the situation, but if that dog hadn't found shelter or if there were no humans around, I doubt the end would have been pretty. And that was a park full of dogs that generally don't know each other. So yeah, even strange dogs will pack up. And it's also why I tend to watch dogs that are at the park together from the same family closely, since they can pack up against other dogs. Or if there are several dogs of one breed at the park, I will keep an eye on them, in case they decide to do an "us against them" thing.

 

Yeah, pack behavior is very real, and you can ignore it if you want, and most of the time you may be ok. But when it happens, it can happen incredibly fast.