Cat Tolerant = Workable

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Hi guys! First time here First time greyhound owner....and have two

 

Charlie (D's Papa Johns) was our first adopted guy and has paid absolutely no attention to our kitties at all. He was so laid back and reserved that we thought two would be fine to handle!

 

Magic (Unfolding Magic) we got 4 days after Charlie. We were told he was totally workable to be able to live with cats. We do NOT expect at this stage of the game for him to be totally tolerant of the cats. I mean, we haven't even had him two weeks!

 

He has made GREAT strides since coming into our home. We are the only home he has ever had, unlike Charlie who was a return to AAG-ATL. So, anyhow.....after that long winded introduction:

 

Magic has really adjusted well to our home! He LOVES the kids, they love him. He has calmed down tremendously on walks and no longer tries to chase cats, squirrels or the random wind blown leaf. But, with our indoor cat, he has not yet adjusted. I personally think it is because the CAT is freaking out, not him. He just wants to sniff her, see what she is, and then I feel like he would not be so inquisitive about her. She completely and totally FREAKS OUT around him. She is NOT this way with Charlie....because he could care less about her. But, we just don't know how to go about getting them used to each other.

We have doors that separate the living areas of the house from the bedrooms. When those doors are opened, he stays muzzled and leashed and is allowed to "roam" about the house. He totally seeks the cat out. When we have them in the same room as one another, as soon as she sees him she freezes up, hisses and puffs up. Without any prompting from him. Now, when he sees THIS, he gets excited. He has never growled at her or anything. Once or twice he has barked at her as she has walked by his crate in the evenings, but hasn't done this since about day 3 of being with us.

 

We already are in love with this sweet, ugly, stanky breathed boy! But, Rosabelle was here first. We can't live on guard ALL. THE. TIME. that something will happen between the two of them. Especially not with him actually seeking her out. What can we do to give this as much chance as possible to work? We have in no way thrown in the towel, hell, we just got started! He is a smart, fast learning boy, already responding to "wait", "let's go", and "go lay down". I just KNOW it can work. But we need to be better educated on how to go about it!

 

Any and all help is very much appreciated!

 

Here is a photo of us and our family

 

1DSC_3317 by *just_me*, on Flickr

[Feisty49]

Hmmm... I'm both a cat person and a Greyhound person. My cat wants to cuddle with Annie Bella but though tolerant, Annie Bella doesn't want that close of a relationship.

 

I'm thinking that since the cat is the one freakin' out, how about you confine the cat (in his cat carrier?) and let Magic sniff to his heart's content. Magic needs to satisfy his curiosity so I'd let him have a chance.

 

You have a beautiful family. Kids and dogs...what's better than that?

Edited November 13, 2011 by Feisty49

[GeorgeofNE]

What a great family photo!

 

Hmmmmm. Actively seeking the cat out. I'm not quite sure how I'd deal with that. My George never had much interest from day one, and I had three cats at the time. However, none of my cats are in the least bit afraid of dogs, having either grown up with one (mine) or just being generally fearless.

 

And your cat doesn't freak out over the other dog? That's odd. Maybe she senses your new guy isn't as cat workable as the adoption group thought?

 

I wish I had some great ideas. I'm sure people with more experience working through cat/dog issues will jump in.

[Guest shanesmom]

Beautiful family photo! Looks like it should be in a magazine.

 

Your situation sounds very similar to mine in regards to greyhounds and my cat but I couldn't say for sure without seeing all the signs he shows when he seeks her out and I am no professional at all and even came on here for advice myself not that long ago. My first 2 greyhounds never even looked at the cat. From day one and until the end they completely ignored her. The greyhound I adopted in August, Ace, is totally different and I was so worried it wouldn't work out. He really wanted to check her out and play with her all the time. This really worried me because my other 2 never did this. I kept them somewhat separated for over a month. Either he or she was in the crate in the same room. They would be very close to each other and he could check her out without being able to get to her. Then we moved onto his being muzzled around her. Any time he tried to play or chase her I told him sternly "no kitty" and he is such a good boy that he would stop immediately. That's when I knew it would work but just take time. Now that he has been able to check her out and knows he is not permitted to chase her, they are out together all the time as long as I am home. He pretty much ignores her. I still don't trust them together when I am not home though but fortunately he still likes his crate and I do crate him when I leave without him.

[greysmom]

Can you correct Magic away from the cat??

 

Does he stare obsessively at the cat and/or drool. and/or shake or chatter when the cat is around??

 

These behaviors indicate a NOT cat wokable greyhound. That's not to say it can't be done, but it will take a lot more time and work and patient supervision from all the humans in the house. If Magic can be corrected and does not fixate on the cat, then this is a workable dog.

 

You're correct that the cat is part of the problem. Prey behavior will naturally bring out more prey drive, even in a completely cat-safe dog. Make sure she has places to go in every room to escape the dog - under and behind furniture, up high, under a baby gate to get out of the room. And also set up a place that is only for the cat. A place she can go and hang out where she knows the dog won't get her. Put her food bowl there and a kitty box, a nice bed - preferrably a bit out of the way and quiet. I wouldn't out her in a carrier and let Magic have a go at her. That will likely terrify her even more. Let her observe at her own pace and from her own vantage point. She will come around eventually.

 

Magic's behavior will also change over time. He will settle down and get used to the strange creature roaming the house. Right now, everything is still really new for him, so, while you keep the cat safe with his muzzle, he's settling in and learning about how to live in a house. When he "goes after" the cat, correct him with a sharp "Ah-Ah!!!" and maybe a handclap, depending on how sensitive he is to correction. If he still persists, you can tape a few pennies in a pop can for a deterring noise. Some people use a squirt bottle or gun, but this method has drawbacks - namely, you always have to have it to be effective (see the squirt bottle thread for moe discussion on this).

 

Also, contact your group right away and talk to someone about this so they are aware there is an issue. They will likely have some sugestions too.

 

Good luck! That's an awesome family photo!

[Sambuca]

I would stop the pup from searching out the cat. Either lock him in the room with you or tether him to you. When the cat comes in the room call the dogs name and give a treat when he looks at you. Continue to do this until when the cat shows up he automatically looks at you for a cookie.

[kudzu]

Hey, it sounds like you are in my neck of the woods. I live outside Atl, East of the AAG Atlanta kennels. My hounds came from SEGA though. While I'm certainly not a dog trainer over the years we've incorporated about a dozen of my own dogs, including 4 Greyhounds, into our now cat owning household. We've also had dozens of fosters, including 6 or so foster Greyhounds. (I'd say 8 fosters but 2 of them stayed. )

 

The cat issues are often easier to discuss over the phone. If you need to talk send me an email: laura kbf 81 (at) me.com [you know the deal with spaces, etc] I can respond with my phone number. In the meantime, here's the deal. The dogs I consider cat workable are the ones I can distract from the cat. They may be interested in the cat, very curious & may get in the habit of scoping out the room periodically to see if they can find the cat. However, you can distract them from that as well. Food, human interaction, going for a walk, all of that will get their mind off the kitty for a while. Usually those dogs can be desensitized to the cat & trained to leave them alone.

 

Behaviors we work to prevent the dogs from practicing & actively discourage are approaching the cat, giving them more than a casual sniff should they encounter each other, attempting to engage the cat in play, like play bowing, chasing the cats, staring at them, laying down on the bed with them, stalking them even if just visually.

 

Our approach is as Greysmom & Sambuca describe. We also work hard to catch the dog behaving the way we want & reward them for that. Dog laying on bed with cat in room, "Good Boy" + cookie (GB+C). Dog standing in middle of room but not approaching cat, GB+C, etc. In the beginning, some of these will be hard to catch but do your best. Greys at our house wear muzzles when new hounds & our cats are both loose. This is to protect the cats. Depending on the dogs that lasts a couple days or many. It sounds like yours might still be in the "muzzle just to be safe" phase. After that the dogs are unmuzzled but newbie wears a 4' leash so he can be easily reeled in if need be. Or even used to tether the hound to me at times. Newbie is crated when we are not there.

 

By rewarding good behavior, preemptively redirecting from the cat to a more desirable behavior & preventing the dog from practicing the unwanted behavior we build the habit of good behavior with rewards to reinforce that this is a good thing. If we slip on those & the hound does get in a quick chase or encounters the cat & shows more than a passing interest we correct them with an Uh-Uh & show him what we want him to do instead like laying on his bed. One thing I do not use to distract a dog from a cat is a squeaky toy or bouncing a ball or any other type of exciting play. I want to encourage calm.

 

At first I might reward a dog just for not tugging on the leash to get to the cat. Later we reward for being able to lay on a bed with Tasty Kitty (stop laughing, that's really her name) goes zipping right under his nose. Obviously there is a long progression of steps between the two. Its baby steps sometimes. Mainly I think if a dog if really mostly just curious about the cat, interested in up close sniffing rather than catching & eating, then all will be well. It can take experience though to know the difference.

 

Mostly, please play it safe. Err on the side of caution. This isn't a race. These will be your pets for years to come. If it takes many months to have complete peace & harmony that's OK. Because even if the ultimate goals is many months away things will be progressing & getting easier the entire time. Well, with a possible occasional back sliding.

 

Welcome to the world of Greys. Contact me if you need me.

 

Laura

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Thanks, y'all!

 

I will reread everything when I am not on my phone and see how we can implement some of the ideas and get Magic on the path to complete and TOTAL awesomeness

 

Laura, I am east of ATL as well, in Athens! I will message you my number as I agree, talking through these things is so much easier!

 

I'll keep y'all posted Today Magic is at work with me so that Charlie boy can have some one on one outside play time at home and Magic isn't stuck in the crate all day (my husband is home brewing beer today). So we are hanging out enjoying each other and working on some training/commands today. He is such a smart, good boy. Hoping this can all work out the way we want it to!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Up until I had to put my 2nd cat to sleep early this year, I was a cat tester for one group here in the Chicagoland area. I also foster as well.

 

I would do one quick test to see just how interested your hound is in Rosabelle. This will be a pretty accurate way to be able to determine if your hound will be able to adjust to Rosabelle or not. You basically need Rosabelle to swat Magic to see his reaction. So what you need to do is make sure that your hound is muzzled and leashed. You have one adult holding the leash and one adult with Rosabelle. You bring Rosabelle into the room without Magic being able to see her(if Rosabelle is a runner, and not a fighter, then you need to make sure to do this somewhere she will be cornered). Then you allow Magic to see Rosabelle but NOT get excited. Basically what you need to do is have Magic on one side of the room and under control, distract with treats. Once he sees her, allow him to slowly approach sniff her. Hopefully Rosabelle will respond with a swat or two across the muzzle. If she doesn't swat, but runs, you CANNOT allow Magic to chase, but do allow him to follow. There is a difference. Allow him to slowly follow where Rosabelle went. This is where I say it is important to let Rosabelle to be cornered if it she is not a fighter. You will allow Magic to follow until Rosabelle feels like she has to fight. You allow her to swat Magic. Do NOT allow Magic to force Rosabelle down with the muzzle, but allow sniffing. If Rosabelle swats Magic and he gets MORE excited, then you cannot have cohabitation. If Magic gets swatted and is afraid or pulls away, you are ok. This is the final test that you need to perform to be sure of safety for Rosabelle. During this entire event Charlie must be outside, or otherwise noplace near the testing. Under no circumstances do you allow two hounds with Rosabelle when you are trying to get her mad enough to swat Magic. This is not mean or crewl to Rosabelle, she will not be emotionally scarred for life. My two cats were testers for hundreds of greyhounds. They had never lived with dogs until we got our greyhounds and they were 16 when we got our first greyhounds. They easily understood the difference between the hounds that were interested in them, and our hounds. Rosabelle will be fine, don't worry about her.

 

If you want me to expline more, feel free to call me. six three zero, two seven two, eight one seven eight.

 

Chad

[Mike516]

I agree with greysmom. I don't think locking up the cat and letting the dog have at her is a good idea, sorry. I think you'll traumatize the cat and make the situation worse. Just my opinion. The test Greyt_dog-lover proposes sounds interesting though. If you try it, I'd be totally curious to hear how it goes.

 

That said, I'm new to this as well having gotten Ginger, who is cat safe so not the exact same situation, about 6 weeks ago. Having 3 cats myself, I know how you feel and we are still very careful. Ginger was wearing her muzzle for safety for the first few weeks and is still crated when we're not home.

 

My big orange tabby kind of set the tone though. Ginger was initially somewhat interested in the cats but when she got a little too close to the orange guy and stuck her nose in his face...WHAP! right on the snout. And that, as they say, was that. Ginger didn't like being swatted at all. We didn't set this up, we didn't have to, they did it on their own, and for days afterward, Ginger whined whenever the orange guy walked by lmao. I originally posted: "I'm not saying encourage your cat to thump the dog on the nose but if she decides to do it, it might not be the worst thing in the world " So after reading the "test" idea above, I'm editing this to say that it may be the best idea I ever heard.

 

We still keep a close eye on everyone, because you just never know...you know?

 

Best of luck to you, I hope everything works out.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Mike516

[kudzu]

You're Athens people. That's excellent! I work in Atlanta that live a little closer to Athens. I hope you have already discovered the dog runs at Sandy Creek Park. Your own private dog park for a few dollars an hour really can't be beat. Run #3 is our favorite. Let me know if you ever want to get the hounds together for a run.

 

Laura

[BatterseaBrindl]

No advice about the dog vs cat.

I just wanted to say

 

And thanks for following the 'rules' and posting a picture!!

Greyt ooking family!

 

 

You have received some good advice from others and it seems like some peeps live close by.

[NeylasMom]

I would stop the pup from searching out the cat. Either lock him in the room with you or tether him to you. When the cat comes in the room call the dogs name and give a treat when he looks at you. Continue to do this until when the cat shows up he automatically looks at you for a cookie.

Yep, this pretty much sums it up.

 

 

 

Most greyhounds can be trained with time and persistence. It's hard to tell from your description, but it sounds to me like he's in teh room with the cat and not giving chase, which to me says he's definitely trainable.

 

One of the best indicators of how trainable the dog is is what he does when the cat is out of sight. If you close the cat into a room and shut the door, does he "hunt" persistently for the cat at the door, or is it out of sight out of mind? If it's the latter, even to an extent, then he's trainable.

 

FYI, my cat certainly knows the difference between a dog he needs to be wary of and one he doesn't and will act accordingly, but it does NOT mean the dog isn't trainable. It seems more to be a function of the dog's interest at the time. My new adoptee Faith is a perfect example. She was really keen on Cisco when she arrived as my foster dog and Cisco would slowly skulk past her crate so as not to attract her attention (and he was more likely to get nasty if she got close), but they have absolutely no issues now. It took me a few weeks to a month before I felt fairly comfortable with them out together, unmuzzled and supervised and about another month before I started being willing to leave them alone together unsupervised. It's been a bit over 3 months now and they're out together all the time now, even when I'm at work and I don't worry.

 

ETA: You don't need to use correction to work on this issue. Rewarding for ignoring the cat is the key. Initially like Sambuca said, you may need to distract him by calling him or even using a squeaky toy. You can also teach a cue, like "no kitty" that means leave him alone and reward him for listening to you.

[Guest greyers]

Welcome to greytalk! What a lovely family. Great looking furkids and human ones!

 

You have been given some great advice here and I do not have anything to add in terms of finding out what magics prey drive is with kitty. I feel for you guys as I have 2 cats (almost 18 & 20 years old) and with all of my Greys the cats safety is our number one concern. It has been a deal breaker with one dog we had to retun after a few days when she not only cornered one cat, but got our male who has no interest in cats totally interested. That particular cat has total fear of dogs and runs from them. In this case the cat didn't even run nor fight. He got cornered, howled and then released his bowels out of fear. It was terrifying for me and a good lesson to see how my spooky cat really would react. It was heartbreaking to return that particular greyhound but we couldn't risk it. We found the right 2nd dog for us a few weeks later and Prudence, like the rest of our greyhounds, isn't remotely interested in the cats except to find them an annoyance at times. But an annoyance that is clearly "off limits"

 

Just a couple things for the future regarding cats and Greys. Obviously outdoor cats that are strangers are "fair games" to many cat tolerant Greys. But keep in mind too that if your cat is solely indoors and yet goes outside one day (ours have tried to be escape artists), watch your dogs closely with the cat as sometimes they see them as "not their cat" for a bit. Also any time your cat goes into the vet, or if they are sick, the cat may smell different and people have suddenly had dead cats afterwards. So never become too complacent about your dogs and cats living together. Always feed separately and always have cat safety areas throughout the house.

 

Best of luck to you with magic! And congrats on the recent adoption.

[NeylasMom]

 

Just a couple things for the future regarding cats and Greys. Obviously outdoor cats that are strangers are "fair games" to many cat tolerant Greys. But keep in mind too that if your cat is solely indoors and yet goes outside one day (ours have tried to be escape artists), watch your dogs closely with the cat as sometimes they see them as "not their cat" for a bit. Also any time your cat goes into the vet, or if they are sick, the cat may smell different and people have suddenly had dead cats afterwards. So never become too complacent about your dogs and cats living together. Always feed separately and always have cat safety areas throughout the house.

This is really excellent advice that often doesn't get mentioned.

 

Part of my gradual training with Faith was to make sure that we had witnessed all of the "more interesting" things that Cisco could do and I was able to teach her an appropriate response before I would consider leaving them unsupervised (and by unsupervised initially all that meant was me leaving the room). The list of things included vomiting, horking up a hairball, playing with his spinny trackball toy, and doing high speed laps through my condo (he's about 16 and only gets this bug up his butt every now and then so we had to wait a while for this). We also discovered that him laying on the dog beds was interesting to her at first.

 

And of course, like greyers said, we will always be cautious if he's not feeling well or has been out of the house and he always has his own room that only he can access where his litter and food are. I recently bought and installed this gate as an easier way to keep the dogs out while giving him easy access:

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Hey, Laura! Did you get my email?

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Update:

We are making progress every day! Both Magic and the cat. Rosabelle is starting to become more visible around the house and Magic is not as jumpy when he sees her! Just this morning Rosabelle creeped onto the bed while Magic was laying on it! He didn't see her so made no movement at all. But just that she even stayed on the bed after seeing him was a huge improvement for her

I plan on doing the ultimate test Chad talked about after thanksgiving! Our lives will finally slow down after that and I'll get to spend even more time with the boys then!

[Mike516]

 

I have 2 of these same gates. They're perfect for keeping the dog out of the cat's safe area and in the bedroom at night.

[Guest FrankieWylie]

I will have to look into those! Our area we need to gate off is not a typical size, so hopefully something like this expands? Thought, from the looks of the photo, that appears to be about the size of our doorway!

[Mike516]

I like it because with the extension it fits a pretty wide space.

 

We have one in a doorway, no problem there. The other is in a hallway so needed to be wider. The gate I have (looks just like the one in the pic) comes with an extension that makes it pretty wide.

 

Very easy to put up, the only thing is, the way I had originally put it up (to keep her out of the bedroom, not in) if Ginger jumps on it on the side away from the doorstop, it does come down, which she did when we tried experimenting with leaving her in a bedroom when we went out and she freaked out, knocked the gate down and put a nice gouge in the hardwood floors

 

So I'd suggest putting the gate on the side of the doorjamb that has the door stop on the side that'll stop the gate from sliding out of jam (does that make sense? You want the dog on the side that if she jumps on the gate, the door jam will stop it from sliding out of the doorway). The one in the hallway, I'd have to attach to the wall with hardware if she messed with it but luckily, so far, she hasn't.

 

Also, you can't beat having the cat door. We have them tied open so they can't get locked out of the safe-area.

[Guest greyers]

These gates are awesome and I contemplated getting one and was ready to order off amazon but we couldn't wait to get one shipped with Rego's food aggression so I got a local one with no cat door. At times I regret not getting the door, but so far we only use it for our kitchen which has 2 doorways and the second doorway is a heavy sliding pocket door. So we keep that open just enough for the cats. I think on amazon they sell this gate in regular with and extra wide. Or maybe it was extra tall? I don't recall!

 

To the OP- congrats and glad to hear of the improvements and I hope things continue to go well!

[NeylasMom]

It comes in both extra wide and tall. I got the extra wide and it just fits my spare room, which has a double door ( its really wide, fifty some inches). It comes with optional hardware to actually install it if you are worried about it getting knocked down, but I just used the pressure mount system and its in there solidly. My dogs don't jump on the gates though.

 

FoR to hear you're mOunts improvement. Just be careful about situations like the one you're describing with the bed. You mY end up with a totally different problem (space aggression).

[Guest FrankieWylie]

Last night we had even both strides and concerns. I'm going to call Chad to see if he will look at the video I took and give me his opinion. Basically, Magic was on the bed and Rosabelle got up there too. At first he had no clue she was there. When he finally realized it, we spent 20 minutes working on distracting him, making him lay his head down, and treating him. He never fully freaked or lunged at her, but it was certainlyore difficult to distract him in the beginning. However, by the end of the 20 minutes it was a little better.

Just want Chad to check it out to see if it's wishful thinking on our part or if there is hope

 

As far as the bed and sleep aggression, we are well aware. We have tested their boundaries and they are cool with you sharing their space as long as you don't put pressure on their ribs or hind legs. For our bed, if they ever show signs of sleep aggression on it. They just won't be allowed up there. So far so good though. However last night he didn't want to get down, so that is something we will have to work on.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

At first he had no clue she was there. When he finally realized it, we spent 20 minutes working on distracting him, making him lay his head down, and treating him. He never fully freaked or lunged at her, but it was certainlyore difficult to distract him in the beginning. However, by the end of the 20 minutes it was a little better.

 

To me that sounds like a great sign. First, because he isn't so intent of getting the cat that he's always "hunting" for her, if he were he would have noticed her on the bed immediately. Second, he spent 20 minutes in close proximity to the cat and you guys didn't have to hold him back from eating her.

[Guest greyers]

One note on the bed thing... if it has been typically the "cats space", and you have a cat that really never quite feels comfortable with the dogs, you may want to consider a "no dogs on the bed policy". Our dogs get walks and so much attention compared to our cats. And our first greyhound would stealthily try to intimidate our cats when everyone was on the bed. It took us a long time to realize she was doing that. Ever since then, no greyhounds on the bed. The bed and couch are the cats place to get love and attention from their humans and sleep with us. And the cats consider it a "safe place". The dogs sleep next to the bed in their dog beds.