Will Be Fostering A Return

[Annette]

Tomorrow I will be picking up a greyhound being returned because of its sleep space aggression. He has been in the house for about 1 1/2 years and started showing signs of sleep space aggression about 1 year ago. The dog is coming from a house with three children (also have the impression an active household). The dog was allowed to sleep with one of the children (who he growled at when it was disturbed while sleeping) and also allowed on the furniture. Apparently the dog was on the couch and was sleeping with his eyes open and the dad got a little to close to the dog's face with his own face and was bitten.

 

We have personally had two greyhounds with sleep space aggression. Icabod was not allowed on the furniture at all. His favorite place to sleep was in the hallway, lying across it so he blocked it. He snapped at both Roy and I along with the cats. Since we knew he was like that, we just were careful not to disturb him when he was a sleep and we made loud noises to let him know that we were nearby. The cats even learned to leap over him. He eventually outgrew the aggression. When we adopted Dixie, she had sleep space aggression. She actually bit the sil when they were both on the couch. Once that happened, Dixie was banned from all furniture. Dixie has since outgrown it. We go camping and share the mattress with her with no problems and sometimes she will lay on the couch if one of us is on it stretched out without any problems.

 

Has anyone who has fostered or has had multiple dogs had to re-train a dog who has not been corrected for a year? How successful were you?

 

Everyone will definitely be muzzled and the foster will be crated when not supervised and will not be allowed on the furniture. I am guessing Dixie and Miriam will gladly assist me in keeping the foster off of THEIR couch.

 

Anyone have any other advice?

 

Thanks

[MaryJane]

I just wanted to say "Thank You" for taking a return with sleep aggression especially one that bit the previous owner.

 

No advice on handling your particular situation as none of mine are allowed on the furniture at all and any fosters that I have had over the years that climbed up seemed to "get it" after I pushed them off a few times.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I would start with NILF training, along with desensitization training. People have used balled up socks and toss them on the hound when he/she is sleeping, or toss treats at the hound. What I have done is to make sure the hound is muzzled and then I sit on the floor in front of the tv for the evening. The best bed in the house is in front of the tv, so its not usually difficult to get the foster on the bed in front of me. When the hound lies down I begin gently petting the rear end of the hound. If I notice the hound falling asleep, I call its name to wake it up, all the while continuing to pet the hound. Once the hound will fall asleep with me petting, I will then let it sleep for a few minutes, then wake it up. This takes a few weeks or so to get them used to the touching, but it has worked well with two of my fosters. Those where the only two that had this issue, so this technique worked for me in my limited experience. I do think one of the most important aspects is the NILF and obedience training. All of my fosters are started on obedience training within the 2nd week of being in my house. I believe the structure of obedience training helps the transition from track to home in establishing a routine and bond of trust with the new human in their life.

 

Chad

[Tallgreydogmom]

We have taken problem greyhounds. The greyhound is usually fine, it was the humans that needed to be retrained. Many times the humans knew it and said so. Still returned the greyhound.

[NeylasMom]

We have taken problem greyhounds. The greyhound is usually fine, it was the humans that needed to be retrained. Many times the humans knew it and said so. Still returned the greyhound.

My thoughts exactly. Active household, 3 young kids, probably not the best environment for a dog with sleep aggression anyway, or at least not if they're going to give furniture privileges.

 

Using a crate or an x-pen to give him some space while he adapts to his new environment and gets over the stress of the change in homes is probably a good idea. I think what a lot of people tend to forget is that when you increase the number of stressors for a dog, it takes less to push him into a place where he feels the need to growl, snap or bite. So best to do what you can to limit that given the already stressful move - give him his own space, get him lots of exercise, keep a solid routine, and be clear about what your expectations are and reward him when he meets them.

[Guest Psycmeistr]

My son was bitten and received stitches from our last greyhound because he bent down to pet it while it was sleeping.. this was the only instance of sleep aggression with Husky; and everyone knew to wake him up via voice before reaching to pet or touch him.

 

After that, I will not touch a dog if I even think he may be sleeping.

[christinepi]

There's something I don't get. If the issue is sleep aggression, and the dog acquired this at the kennel because nobody ever touched him while he was in his crate, why is there a distinction made by humans as to where the sleep aggression takes place (if sleep aggression happens on furniture, furniture privileges get revoked vs sleep aggression on dog bed/floor is "OK")? Why would the dog understand the difference? Or is it not about that, but rather about the inherent danger that if the sleep aggression happened on furniture there would be a higher likelihood of somebody getting bitten?

[GeorgeofNE]

We have taken problem greyhounds. The greyhound is usually fine, it was the humans that needed to be retrained. Many times the humans knew it and said so. Still returned the greyhound.

 

 

I totally agree with this. I would take what the family said happened with a grain of salt and form your own opinion. My friend took in a bounce who the "family" said was "going blind, going deaf, and showing signs of aggression."

 

The dog is drop dead gorgeous, looks half his age, has no vision or hearing problems whatsoever, and has been a joy to have in her home.

[Guest Psycmeistr]

There is truth to the old saying, "Let sleeping dogs lie."

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

There's something I don't get. If the issue is sleep aggression, and the dog acquired this at the kennel because nobody ever touched him while he was in his crate, why is there a distinction made by humans as to where the sleep aggression takes place (if sleep aggression happens on furniture, furniture privileges get revoked vs sleep aggression on dog bed/floor is "OK")? Why would the dog understand the difference? Or is it not about that, but rather about the inherent danger that if the sleep aggression happened on furniture there would be a higher likelihood of somebody getting bitten?

 

 

Yes, it is more dangerous to have the sharp teeth right next to you on the sofa, as opposed to on the floor. Also, there are times when a hound has sleep startle at first when transitioning to pet life, it seems that with effective leadership which builds trust and boundaries, these unwanted behaviors sometimes extinguish themselfs. Two of my current three hounds were like this when they first came into my house and they both had been in foster for extended periods of time before my house. I attribute it to the lack of trust, once we built up our bond, there are no more episodes of sleep startle.

[christinepi]

There's something I don't get. If the issue is sleep aggression, and the dog acquired this at the kennel because nobody ever touched him while he was in his crate, why is there a distinction made by humans as to where the sleep aggression takes place (if sleep aggression happens on furniture, furniture privileges get revoked vs sleep aggression on dog bed/floor is "OK")? Why would the dog understand the difference? Or is it not about that, but rather about the inherent danger that if the sleep aggression happened on furniture there would be a higher likelihood of somebody getting bitten?

 

 

Yes, it is more dangerous to have the sharp teeth right next to you on the sofa, as opposed to on the floor. Also, there are times when a hound has sleep startle at first when transitioning to pet life, it seems that with effective leadership which builds trust and boundaries, these unwanted behaviors sometimes extinguish themselfs. Two of my current three hounds were like this when they first came into my house and they both had been in foster for extended periods of time before my house. I attribute it to the lack of trust, once we built up our bond, there are no more episodes of sleep startle.

 

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[cleptogrey]

glad to hear he is out of the original house. all dogs need space and especially those with sleep agression. it's not a good combination young children and a dog w/ sleep agression. felix was really young and i was able to let him know - no way- was that acceptable. he came to me at 7 weeks and started showing it around 9months, some dogs just have it. he learned pretty quickly. annie came at 2.5 yrs of age, pretty sensitive and a tad insecure. even when she really wants to try to cuddle up and finally relaxes sleep agression is there, all i have to do is move my arm or scratch myself. point blank even with those beautiful eyes she is not allowed up on the couch. i tell company to leave her alone and wait for her to go up to them. more times than less a grey is dozing w/ those eyes open. i believe in giving them their own space, be it crate, bed or what ever and letting sleeping/resting dogs lie. for company it's often the crate for her security and my own liability.

 

it sounds like this boy needs his space, needs to feel secure and adults need to be aware of the sitation and leave him alone. the desensitizing can be introduced in the distant future, let him settle. i always tell people that a crate is "their space" never intruded upon when they are in it. clean it when they are out of the crate, don't try to pet a dog in "their space".

Edited November 3, 2011 by cleptogrey

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I respectfully disagree with Clepto when it comes to "letting them settle" before you start desensitization training. I have long term (1-6 months each) fosters continually in my house, I start from day one with the training and probing for issues (space issues, sleep startle, food issues, shiny floors, stairs, kids, etc). This is just my own experience, but I believe that these hounds are very used to routine and you need to establish the routine from the start, not change the routine after a few weeks or months. If they need to be able to be touched when they are sleeping, then from day one you need to do this (I agree about the crate, they should never be bothered in their crate, ever). You do have to realize the individual personalities to be able to assess just how much they can handle. For a hound that is very shy, I wont give very much stimulation to them, but I will give them some each day. It is up to the human to decide which behaviors need to be worked on and when, not the hound, of course as I said above, it depends on how much each individual hound can handle. If you overload them, then the desensitization and any positive training you have done will be for not.

[cleptogrey]

i think that i might need to reword a couple of things, since i agree w/greyt_dog_lover but the difference is i feel the dog needs to establish a routine and start to feel secure but not allowed to be bossy. then see what sets off his agression. we weren't in the house w/ the other family and do not know exactly how they responded and what went on and we don't know what really transpired. the phrase "distant future" should have been phrased near future. it'possible that he may not encounter an agressive situation for some time due to the new environment and having his own space, yet beware that he could.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Clepto, I agree, need to assess the hounds so called "issue/s". How many times have you heard of a hound being returned because of "issues" then when they get into your home, you cannot get the behavior to repeat itself?

 

 

Chad

[Guest Swifthounds]

Clepto, I agree, need to assess the hounds so called "issue/s". How many times have you heard of a hound being returned because of "issues" then when they get into your home, you cannot get the behavior to repeat itself?

 

 

Chad

 

 

Usually it's ignorance of basic dog behavior/communication coupled with a lack of routine. My guess is that if you were to explore other areas of these people's lives (career, finances, child rearing) you'd find the same issues causing problems there. People want thdigit to change, rather than change the people to effectively communicate with the dog. And to think...we're the one's with the evolved brains.

 

Having a routine from the beginning is essential to the dog. Having other dogs to follow helps as well.

[Annette]

Toby is here. Right now there is not much to report since we got home at 10:00 pm last night and I was at work all day today. I have no problem crating him. His crate came along as part of his "dowry". His crate is set up in the bedroom while Miriam's is set up in the living room. When it is time for meals, I put him in Miriam's crate in the living room just so he isn't separated from the pack. I have had Toby, Miriam and Dixie all muzzled when Toby isn't crated. He has been to stressed by his change of living, that he really hasn't slept while I am awake, so I can't do some observing/testing of his reaction when disturbed while sleeping. Of course he will have his muzzle on and I will be a safe distance from his jaws. He did try getting on the couch once, but I made him get off. I think the girls pretty much have told him that the couch belongs to them. He won't lay on the beds I have down on the floor, he goes and lays on the carpet runner instead Hopefully this weekend he will settle enough to relax and sleep while I am awake. Right now I feel like I am supervising a day care. Dixie, the nice, calm, mature child (she's 10 yo) lays quietly on the couch while the two four year olds act like children. I swear she is smirking when Toby and Miriam start driving me nuts

 

Otherwise he is eating well and isn't shy in the least. He does show some signs of being an alpha dog. I am going to have to get him out walking on a leash (his family let him be off lead in unfenced areas ).

 

One question, do you think I need all three dogs muzzled? Can I take the muzzles off the girls?

 

Thanks

[cleptogrey]

personally i would keep the muzzles on. they can and will be your best friend. slooooow and steady, don't make too many changes too quickly and watch things unfold yet be ontop and do not accept any behavior which is not up to par. it might take him quite a while to show his true colors, they may never show(if you are really ontop of things). the group will develop it's own dynamics in time.as to not muzzeling your own girls, you know them best, watch, wait and see.

[Guest starr511]

I have been reading along and starting wondering this: Star never goes on the furniture or our bed. She just doesn't want too. I suppose she was never allowed too in foster care. This is fine with us. Now, she has lots of dog beds through out the house. She sleeps in her crate at night. When in her crate if a cat walks by she will growl. Never has she ran out after them. When I am in the room I simply tell her NO. One kitten walked into the crate with her and started trying to play with Star. Well, Star didn't like this and finally barked at the kitten. That was the last time he went into the crate while Star was in it. Is this normal behavior for a dog? Should we be doing something else to stop her behavior? I feel Star is just protecting *Her* space.

 

Thanks

 

nancy

[christinepi]

I have been reading along and starting wondering this: Star never goes on the furniture or our bed. She just doesn't want too. I suppose she was never allowed too in foster care. This is fine with us. Now, she has lots of dog beds through out the house. She sleeps in her crate at night. When in her crate if a cat walks by she will growl. Never has she ran out after them. When I am in the room I simply tell her NO. One kitten walked into the crate with her and started trying to play with Star. Well, Star didn't like this and finally barked at the kitten. That was the last time he went into the crate while Star was in it. Is this normal behavior for a dog? Should we be doing something else to stop her behavior? I feel Star is just protecting *Her* space.

 

Thanks

 

nancy

 

 

Sounds perfectly normal to me.

[Annette]

I have been reading along and starting wondering this: Star never goes on the furniture or our bed. She just doesn't want too. I suppose she was never allowed too in foster care. This is fine with us. Now, she has lots of dog beds through out the house. She sleeps in her crate at night. When in her crate if a cat walks by she will growl. Never has she ran out after them. When I am in the room I simply tell her NO. One kitten walked into the crate with her and started trying to play with Star. Well, Star didn't like this and finally barked at the kitten. That was the last time he went into the crate while Star was in it. Is this normal behavior for a dog? Should we be doing something else to stop her behavior? I feel Star is just protecting *Her* space.

 

Thanks

 

nancy

 

It sounds like Star was just protecting her space. I don't think there is anything you really can do to stop a cat from acting like a cat. Hopefully the kitty will no longer enter the crate while Star is in it. We don't have that problem here. Lefty has no interest in being near the dogs intentionally, but heaven help the sensitive hound who gets in her space. Lefty has slapped the snot out of several greyhounds. They have either been upset after being slapped or totally oblivious to the fact that they had the snot slapped out of them by a 16 year old tripod kitty. Toby is of the oblivious variety, Lefty has slapped him till she's been "blue in the face" but he doesn't realize it and always seems to be in her space. Dixie and Miriam fear the kitty with the mean right hook

 

Annette