Osteo Thread

[Guest greyers]

Lisa,

I am so very sorry for your loss. I am glad you got a little more time with iceman and a chance to spoil him a bit and come to gripes a tiny bit with the inevitable. I feel horrible about his injury and you having to carry him. I think you absolutely did the right thing and I think it was your "sign" to help let you know what he needed and would have wanted. I think your dedication to him and to continuing to help the breed is wonderful!

 

As to your "how long" question, I think only you can answer that. I see nothing wrong with getting another dog right away if that feels right for you and your family. The way I have always felt is that we give what time we can to the ones we are fortunate to come into our lives and when they leave us we continue to do right by them by helping another in need. I see no disrespect in that.

 

As for us, because Prudence can't do well as a solo dog, my husband is willing to look at a companion for her sooner rather than later. Last time I had to wait 2 years for him to be ready and even then he had to be talked into it! We are currently looking into adopting a 9 year old male that was recently returned again to the adoption group. He has arthritis and he is on "bed rest" currently but responding well to drugs at his foster home. I must admit I am a tad worried about getting a 9 year old. We have always adopted a dog in the 5-7 age range and even that feels like so short of a time to have them in our lives. All of our dogs we have lost between age 10-11 1/2. But this boy deserves a good final home with owners who can offer a lot of love for whatever time he has left, no matter how short. We want to give that to him while giving Prudence a calm greyhound companion. So in our case it's only been 2 weeks and we have a dog we are seriously considering already. I'd say to just do what feels right for you and since it may take awhile to find a good fit for your home, it doesn't hurt to put in an application!

 

Carla,

I'm so very sorry about your Taylor. May your memories help get you through the tough times.

[NeylasMom]

I'm so sorry for the losses of Iceman and Taylor. Sounds like you both did the best thing you could for them, although I know that does little to console you right now.

Edited October 12, 2011 by NeylasMom

[krissn333]

Today marks one year since I had to say goodbye to Sutra

 

I'm still unable to post a proper remembrance thread for him...I'm all cried out today but I know that I need to find the strength to give my Buddyman a proper tribute.

 

Meantime, this is the face that I'm missing. He always told me when it was time for cookies to be given and when it was bedtime...this is the face that would stare me down before woofing at me

[Guest luvugreys]

What a beautiful boy!!!

[NeylasMom]

Kristin

[BauersMom]

Kristin, he was gorgeous.

Edited October 13, 2011 by BauersMom

[Charlies_Dad]

Yeah, Sutra was a beauty all right. Hang in there Kristin.

[greysmom]

Kristin!

[Guest roselle]

Today marks one year since I had to say goodbye to Sutra

 

I'm still unable to post a proper remembrance thread for him...I'm all cried out today but I know that I need to find the strength to give my Buddyman a proper tribute.

 

Meantime, this is the face that I'm missing. He always told me when it was time for cookies to be given and when it was bedtime...this is the face that would stare me down before woofing at me

 

 

Oh, I remember Sutra. I too miss Gracy and that kissable nose, great picture. I'm sending you hugs. Try lighting a candle for Sutra, to me it feels like her spirit is in the room with me.

[Saharasmom]

I was really hoping I would never need to post on this thread. My girlie Sahara was diagnosed with osteo a month ago, and unfortunately it seems the tumor has grown quite a bit. Her pain seems to be well-controlled with Deramaxx and Tramadol, but I am very worried her leg will break. We have an appointment with the vet in the AM. My question is - with x-rays can the vet tell you how likely the bone is to break? I don't want to have her PTS when she is still happy, chattering, playing with toys, etc, but I also don't want her to experience a leg break. I never expected this kind of dilemma when we adopted her five years ago.

 

Kristin - Sutra's begging face looks a lot like Coltrane's when he wants his dinner.

[NeylasMom]

I was really hoping I would never need to post on this thread. My girlie Sahara was diagnosed with osteo a month ago, and unfortunately it seems the tumor has grown quite a bit. Her pain seems to be well-controlled with Deramaxx and Tramadol, but I am very worried her leg will break. We have an appointment with the vet in the AM. My question is - with x-rays can the vet tell you how likely the bone is to break? I don't want to have her PTS when she is still happy, chattering, playing with toys, etc, but I also don't want her to experience a leg break. I never expected this kind of dilemma when we adopted her five years ago.

 

Kristin - Sutra's begging face looks a lot like Coltrane's when he wants his dinner.

Unfortunately I doubt any vet is going to tell you the likelihood of a break. The radiation oncologist we saw was the one who was the most insistent that you just can't tell from x-rays and even Dr. Couto won't give any sort of guess. In theory, as the bone becomes more moth eaten, it becomes weaker and the likelihood of a break is more likely, but there have been a good number of people who have only found out that their dog had osteo when the leg broke. You really just have to decide what you are comfortable with.

 

With Neyla, her tumor seemed to be in the very early stages when we diagnosed it and it stayed that way for about 5 months. During that time, the moth eaten appearance wasn't severe and her pain was easily managed. I took some precautions - I stopped letting her run off lead outside, although I did let her run and play with toys in my carpeted condo as much as she wanted, and I built steps for her to use getting on and off my couch and bed so she wouldn't jump down on to her leg (the cancer was in her front left shoulder). Otherwise, it was life as usual for us.

 

If you get digital copies of the x-rays and want to post them here, some of us may be able to chime in on how things look/compare, but ultimately you'll have to decide what you think is best.

 

I'm so sorry you're joining this "club" - it truly sucks.

[Saharasmom]

Thanks for the info! I guess I was just steeling myself for tomorrow in case the vet would say she was in imminent danger of breaking her leg. I'll see if they have digital copies of the x-rays or just film. I've been taking pictures of her front feet every week (morbid, I know), so I can really see externally how the tumor has progressed. It is just depressing. That is awesome that Neyla was happy & not in pain for 5 mos post diagnosis!

[BauersMom]

Jen said exactly what I was going to say. It really is impossible to know. My onco vet said she's seen minor lesions fracture, and expansive "moth eaten" bones where the dog had fairly normal use of the leg for months without a break.

 

I'm sorry you and Sahara have to be dealing with this.

[greysmom]

Unfortunately, you can't always know until it's too late. Dude had no symptoms at all prior to running in the yard and breaking his rear leg. Even *with* the fracture, neither OSU or local radiologists would say definitely it was osteo. It was only confirmed after amputation by biopsy of the affected (removed) leg tissue.

 

Only you can decide whether amputation is a viable option for your dog. It does not get rid of the cancer, it only gets rid of the very bad pain caused by it. Most dogs adapt extemely quickly and well to life with three legs. It does involve a high cost (I figure we're up to around $10-12, 000 now post amp 10 months, post chemo, with on-going treatment), and there's no guarantee you will buy you dog any time at all. Some dogs last months and months afterwards and some don't even get to finish chemo before the cancer metastisizes. Median survival with amp and chemo i 6-12 months. Palliative care alone is 4-6.

 

OSU will provide free IV chemo drugs which can then be administered by your local vet or specialist.

 

Thee are many here who have gone both routes. Please feel free to sk any questions you might have.

[TwiggysMom]

SaharasMom, I am so sorry you are here too.

 

Not sure if you've already looked into this, but you may want to consider pamidronate iv treatments in addition to traditional pain meds. This is a bisphosphonate also used in humans to combat osteoporosis. It seems to both help with the pain of osteo and to slow the progression of bone loss from the tumor.

 

Taking photos as you are is a great idea. It is so hard to notice changes when we see them every day.

[Guest luvugreys]

Hi, my name is Robin and my beautiful fawn boy, Noah, is going through this terrible journey. I am so lucky to have a support system through Greytalk and Noah's fellow therapy dog friends.Noah was diagnosed at the end of August and had his amputation on September 27th. He is getting around amazingly well. He does pant a lot but does not seem to be in pain. Any ideas from those of you experienced with this surgery? He will start his chemo when my vet gets the drugs from OSU. I would like to hear from any one who can tell me first hand what to expect during chemo.

 

Does anyone have experience with Neoplasene? My 12 y/o Beagle was diagnosed with liver cancer July 2010 and started Neoplasese right away and so far she is doing great. I read it can help control lung mets. I am trying to decide between Neoplasene and Artemisinin post chemo. Any words of wisdom there?

 

Last question- does any one have their osteo pup on Dr.Dressler's cancer diet? If so, do you think it works.

 

Thank you for reading this long post, but I need all the info I can get to help Noah have as long a quality of life as possible. I look forward to hearing from you.

[Charlies_Dad]

Hi, my name is Robin and my beautiful fawn boy, Noah, is going through this terrible journey. I am so lucky to have a support system through Greytalk and Noah's fellow therapy dog friends.Noah was diagnosed at the end of August and had his amputation on September 27th. He is getting around amazingly well. He does pant a lot but does not seem to be in pain. Any ideas from those of you experienced with this surgery? He will start his chemo when my vet gets the drugs from OSU. I would like to hear from any one who can tell me first hand what to expect during chemo.

 

Does anyone have experience with Neoplasene? My 12 y/o Beagle was diagnosed with liver cancer July 2010 and started Neoplasese right away and so far she is doing great. I read it can help control lung mets. I am trying to decide between Neoplasene and Artemisinin post chemo. Any words of wisdom there?

 

Last question- does any one have their osteo pup on Dr.Dressler's cancer diet? If so, do you think it works.

 

Thank you for reading this long post, but I need all the info I can get to help Noah have as long a quality of life as possible. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Hi Robin, I am sorry to hear about Noah. Our Charlie also has Osteo and he is 15mths post dx & amp and doing well. I'll try to respond to your questions as best I can.

 

Chemo - Fairly easy procedure actually. Usually it's either Doxyrubicin or Carboplatin administered and it can range between 4-6 treatments. We did 5 of Doxyrubicin and Charlie had no issues however he was a little tired after round 3, 4 and 5. They can get an upset stomach and your vet should prescribe something for this. Usually it takes about 45 minutes max for each treatment and the cost is not bad even if you pay for the drugs, it's the blood tests that are costly.

 

Panting - I am assuming Noah is still on Tramadol? I can't recall how much they provided post amp but I believe it was for 2-3 weeks and I know it can cause panting and restlessness. It did for Charlie. Any other pain meds he is on?

 

Neoplasene - sorry no experience. We are using Palladia as a at-home chemo therapy for Charlie and it has shown some positive results in controlling mets. We do also give Charlie Artemisinin and cycle it 7 days on, 7 days off.

 

We did review Dr. Dressler's cancer diet and while we are not following it 100%, we do have all our pups on a no carbs or very little diet. There really isn't a lot of true facts on whether no carbs help or not but we thought why not. We do make all the food for our pups and have since we adopted them.

 

Good thoughts for Noah and you.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Charlies_Dad

[krissn333]

Thank you all for your kind thoughts about Sutra. It has been a tough week here...the one year anniversary of losing Sutra, and last night Ace and I participated in Light the Night, a walk for the Leukemia and Lymphoma society. We walked in honor of my best friend's little brother, who passed away 6 months ago to the day from leukemia. He was just 24 years old. Ace's leukemia is in remission, so she got a survivor balloon and wore a vest that said LEUKEMIA SURVIVOR. It was a very emotional night.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that we have some new members in our "club." Hugs to you all

[BauersMom]

Hi, my name is Robin and my beautiful fawn boy, Noah, is going through this terrible journey. I am so lucky to have a support system through Greytalk and Noah's fellow therapy dog friends.Noah was diagnosed at the end of August and had his amputation on September 27th. He is getting around amazingly well. He does pant a lot but does not seem to be in pain. Any ideas from those of you experienced with this surgery? He will start his chemo when my vet gets the drugs from OSU. I would like to hear from any one who can tell me first hand what to expect during chemo.

 

 

As Charlie's Dad said, the chemo is pretty straightforward. You should ask to have Cerenia on hand and that should help with any nausea.

 

They do amazingly well on three legs, don't they? Such strong animals.

 

The panting can be from nerves, too. Berkeley's nervousness increased in the weeks following the amp but now he's back to 100% himself.

[winnie]

Well, looks like I'm now part of the club that no one wants to belong to. Our 11.5 y/o greyhound, Faye Oops, was diagnosed with osteo in her left front shoulder just last night. To be honest, I'm not ready to face this. Perhaps I'll be ready in a couple of days. I'm glad this information is here for when I'm ready to read it.

[krissn333]

It's all very hard to process. Take some time to yourself, we're here when you've had some time to decompress.

[BauersMom]

Well, looks like I'm now part of the club that no one wants to belong to. Our 11.5 y/o greyhound, Faye Oops, was diagnosed with osteo in her left front shoulder just last night. To be honest, I'm not ready to face this. Perhaps I'll be ready in a couple of days. I'm glad this information is here for when I'm ready to read it.

 

I had a hard time, also. It took me a week before I could decide what to do. Others jump right into everything and I just couldn't.

 

I'm so sad about all these new club members, but very grateful that you all have some place to go for support and questions. We're here for you.

[NeylasMom]

Well, looks like I'm now part of the club that no one wants to belong to. Our 11.5 y/o greyhound, Faye Oops, was diagnosed with osteo in her left front shoulder just last night. To be honest, I'm not ready to face this. Perhaps I'll be ready in a couple of days. I'm glad this information is here for when I'm ready to read it.

I'm so sorry you're here.

 

There is no shame in taking a few days to grieve before you start making decisions about care, we've all been there.

 

 

Regarding the neosplasene, unless I am confusing myself, I've read some pretty unpleasant things about it. There is quite a bit of information about it in the artemisinin yahoo groups posts so my suggestion since you're wavering between both would be to go there. The link is in the first post of this thread. My personal recommendation would be artemisinin, but there you'll get the info you need to make a decision.

[MaryJane]

As to the chemo, with my angel Onyx it would make him pretty sick but he got the chemo back maybe 7 years ago and at that time they were not giving nausea medicines to combat it. In addition to being sick for two to three days, the first night he had to go out every 15 minutes which is pretty unusual, most times the dogs will have to go frequently because of all the fluids they give to wash out the chemo but, not that often. After the chemo treatment he would usually rebound after a few days and be feeling OK. For the day or two of nausea, I would feed cheerios in yogurt - his favorite.

 

Make friends with the chemo nurse (bring coffee, donuts, snacks whatever), because she or the vet tech is going to be the one looking after your greyhound in what could be a "whole day affair with the chemo". I was lucky because Onyx's nurse would usually get him herself when I came in and because of that, we didn't have to wait in the waiting room and get him all upset. The same thing with my picking him up, once she knew I was there she would bring him out herself rather than calling an aide to do it.

 

My Onyx had grown back all the fur after the amputation but, with the chemo, they have them lying on the bare floor which usually rubs their legs pretty bare and they may not let you bring in a blanket because of the toxicity of the chemo in the urine .... you might want to check though and just bring in a "throwaway rug" or something.

 

I had him on a "cancer diet" but, like others have said, I'm not sure if it helped or not but, I don't think it hurt.

[TwiggysMom]

To Robin: I am sorry that you and Noah are going through this too.

 

The panting could be from tramadol if he is still on that. It also could be from pain. Twiggy recently started panting a little more than I would expect (she is 2 months post-amp and not on any meds). It turned out to be the first sign of a UTI. I've learned to start looking for issues whenever she starts to pant more than I would expect it has been the first symptom of every issue we have encountered during all of this.

 

I know nothing of Neoplasene (this is the first I've heard of it). I am planning to start an Artemisinin protocol once she is finished with chemo. Her oncologist doesn't want to do it in conjunction with the chemo. I do still need to decide exactly how I'll use it (i.e. cycling, what other things I'll use it in conjunction with, etc.) I really need to join the Artemisinin group.

 

Regarding diet, I've heard of Dr. Dressler's cancer diet, but haven't seen exactly what the recipe is. I have switched Twiggy's kibble to Nutrisca, which is chicken, pea, and chickpea based, and is a certified low-glycemic index food. In addition, I've been crockpotting chickens for her and replace her evening kibble meal with that and a doggy multi-vitamin. It probably isn't the best thing I could give her, but I feel pretty good about it, and she is doing well on it.

 

Kisses to Noah!