Definition Of A Spook

[Guest zoolaine]

I took Mizuki to a new vet for a possible UTI (long story but we are still vet shopping after our move to the Dallas area a few months ago) who has AKC greyhounds, so I assumed she would be knowledgable about greyhounds. But after our visit I have my doubts.

 

She said, "it's very rare with greyhounds but every once in a while there is one that is a spook" and then proceeded to tell me that Zuki could be considered a spook. I admit that Zuki is a bit mental - is anxious and has some aggression that I believe stems from insecurity. But I would not even consider her a shy dog at all. I told the vet this but in her note she still wrote "possible spook".

 

Isn't a spook a very shy, fearful dog that would basically hide in the corner? I admit that my knowledge of spooks is solely from hearing your guy's stories here on GT so I could be entirely wrong.

 

We were not impressed with that vet at all and won't be going back - it smelled, Zuki hated it and didn't even want to go inside which she has never done before, they didn't take enough blood for all the tests to be ran then called and said their machine was broken and to bring Zuki back in for another blood draw, vet refused to give Zuki a lepto vaccine saying "I don't give leapt vaccines to greyhounds" even though I explained that I foster and some of the fosters who come in are lepto positive, plus I called 2 times and asked for the urinalysis and blood work results to be faxed to me and they never did, oh and the front office was quite rude - ok rant over

[Brindles]

Based on my experience, "spooky" is a spectrum, not a fine line.

 

A dog that is overly shy, nervous, and/or has a host of fears (rational or irrational) that can't be easily overcome, to me, is a spook. I've seen that vary from mild to extremely severe. I consider all of those dogs to be spooks.

[Guest sja5032]

Based on my experience, "spooky" is a spectrum, not a fine line.

 

 

I agree with this, a dog with a little bit or fear aggression (which it sounds like is the case here) I would consider "spooky". To be a full on spook in my book you have to be a lot worse than what you are saying. I wouldn't actually be worried about what the vet said, if your dog has some fear issues I would rather see her handled with care anyway its not going to effect her negatively unless she has to re-homed or something.

[greysmom]

"Shy" and "fearful" are words that can be used in connection with spooks, but they're not really the root. A spook is a dog who is - basically - unable to calm herself after becoming anxious, whether this is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain or genetics or learned behavior. Sometimes their spookiness can be "trained" away, or at least lessened, with time and patience and consistency. Once their adrenaline starts flowing about anything, it can be hard to get them back to center behavior.

 

In some ways, they are more like autistic children: Spooks do better with a strict routine, are not comfortable with physical contact except in limited terms, can often be really smart about a very specific thing, often have inappropriate reactions to common everyday occurences.

 

In our own home, with our pack, and only my DH and me, my spook Cash is actually a pretty normal greyhound - She plays, she barks, she eats and sleeps, she roaches, she gets (appropriately) excited and calms back down again, she takes treats. But go outside (even in our own yard) or add one person to the mix and she becomes Spook Girl again. This has gotten MUCH MUCH better in the four years we've had her, with lots of training and use of medication. But she's on leash all the time in the yard because, if she gets anxious, she won't come to me (still, consistently) and won't go inside with the others, and I often don't have four hours to wait until she gets tired and stops running away. It's not that she doesn't trust me, per se, it's simply that her reaction to whatever her triggers are is to run away, very far and very fast.

 

I would say Zuki needs some confidence and might be a bit shy, and might be still developing, but I probably wouldn't call her a spook. I also wouldn't go back to that vet.

[Batmom]

Based on my experience, "spooky" is a spectrum, not a fine line.

 

Yep. There is no one true definition.

 

Some GTers tend to reserve the word for dogs who are fearful of many things and have trouble adjusting to new circumstances lifelong, but that's a local definition, not a global one, and it still varies quite a bit.

 

 

From a vet's point of view, a dog who reacts to ordinary procedures in unpredictable ways, has to be pulled or carried into the exam room, etc. could certainly be considered a spook. And it would be useful to have that notation on the chart to warn others who might treat the animal to take extra care.

 

I think your (well, not anymore ) vet is not entirely competent but not because of calling your pup a spook.

[RaineysMom]

We were not impressed with that vet at all and won't be going back - it smelled, Zuki hated it and didn't even want to go inside which she has never done before, they didn't take enough blood for all the tests to be ran then called and said their machine was broken and to bring Zuki back in for another blood draw, vet refused to give Zuki a lepto vaccine saying "I don't give leapt vaccines to greyhounds" even though I explained that I foster and some of the fosters who come in are lepto positive, plus I called 2 times and asked for the urinalysis and blood work results to be faxed to me and they never did, oh and the front office was quite rude - ok rant over

 

Good Lord, of COURSE greyhounds can (and do!!!) get Lepto. That's one scary vet, along with all the other issues you mentioned. RUN>>>>> and find another!!!

 

no help on the spook parts, my 3 have been utter and total people and attention hogs. But I have heard a lot of success stories where really spooky hounds DO get better

[Remolacha]

I once heard a definition that I thought was good, although I agree, it is a range of behaviors. A spook is a dog that reacts the same way to a particular situation 9 times out of 10, and the tenth time, will do something completely different. The new behavior may continue, or they may go back to the old ways. In other words, unpredictible. Most spooks are timid (not necessarily shy, a different thing) and do well with routine, even more so than most dogs. The comparison to autistic children (also a range) is a good one, I think. From your description, I wouldn't call Mizuki a spook, and I would avoid that vet like the plague!

[Guest WhenIGiveIn]

As others have said spook is a general term used to decribe varing degrees of issues. I dont "lable" a dog a spook unless its severe. Now I have said that a dog can be "spooky" meaning occasionally shy or fearful. My last foster was a bit spooky around strangers but was fine once she warmed up. So I have a feeling the vet (who I still wouldnt use for the other reasons you mentioned) uses the term more like that. Zuki can be spooky in certain situations vs Zuki is a spook..... just a guess.

[Guest zoolaine]

Thanks for all the good info. I agree with you guys that Zuki needs some more confidence but isn't a "spook". Butt head, yes; spook, no :lol

[jetcitywoman]

Wow. Definitely listen to your intuition about dumping this vet. I bet Zuki's "shyness" was also HIS intuition saying "this place sucks, I don't like it".

 

A long time ago, before we were married, DH used to take his two cats to a feline vet. I went with them once. The cats were labelled difficult and handled with leather gloves. The female we took that one day was so terrified that she defecated on the table just from being held with the gloves, and yes she was biting and doing everything in her power to get away. I didn't know why I felt this way, but I knew something was VERY wrong. They didn't do anything to her to make her feel so upset. After we got married, he switched to my vet. We warned them that she might be difficult but then left it up to them as to how to handle her. No gloves. Also no biting, pooping, scratching, etc. She was a different cat. Listen to your animal - ALWAYS.

[Guest buttonwillow]

We were not impressed with that vet at all and won't be going back

 

yah good decision!!

Edited July 8, 2011 by buttonwillow

[JaimeL]

I've been fostering a almost 3 year old greyhound for 8 months. My group hoped that living in a calm home with confident greys would help his "shyness". It took about a week for him to come around to me, accepting treats from my hand. We walked on leash in my fenced back yard for 3 weeks before he felt safe enough to do his business on his own. New people in the house scare him, but if they throw treats to him he will finally take a treat from hand but not allow pets. Biggest issue is going on walks. It's a no go. Same time, early a.m., with a pal, just with me, luring with treats. So question is, do I just stop the walks after trying for 8 months. He is certainly being a hard one to place, and not going for walks limits who would be appropriate for him. Such a good and biddable hound otherwise. Thanks for any advise. 

[greysmom]

Do you live in an urban area where there's traffic and pedestrians and garbage trucks and noisy scary things outside all the time???  He probably needs a pretty quiet living situation for his outside environment as well.  Probably not a spook - they can't progress in behavior training beyond a certain point - just a really anxious little dude.

Unless you need to walk for toileting I would just let him be a house and backyard dog.  He may never come around to being comfortable in a hectic environment inside or outside.  Toss a ball or stuffy in the back yard, do some basic training, get him some puzzle games if he's food motivated when comfortable - there's lots of ways to stimulate his brain without going on walks.

[JaimeL]

I live in a small town in a fairly quiet neighborhood. I still am trying to walk early a.m. so there would be a very low amount of distractions. Even without any people, dogs, cars, he just doesn't want to go further than about 50 feet down the sidewalk. I was hoping that his ability to go places would make him more adoptable. Just feeling frustrated and thinking neither of us are enjoying this and it's not going to change. Thank you for your thoughts.

[JaimeL]

Yes, now after 8 months he feels safe in the fenced yard, so we do a lot of bouncing around there. If a neighbor comes out he becomes wary of them and his surroundings.

[greysmom]

I did have a spook, and it's very much like having a child on the autism spectrum. 

The way she was happiest was having a strict daily routine, no surprises, never leaving the house, no visitors.  She didn't ever bond or pay attention to the numerous other greyhounds we had at the same time through her life.  She would engage in various repetitive soothing behaviors obsessively.  She knew her name but rarely responded to it.  I had to have her on leash in our fenced yard for most of 8 years because she wouldn't go back in the house on her own, or follow the lead of the other dogs.  She was whip smart and learned things quickly once we found what motivated her, but if she wasn't interested there was little you could do.  She tolerated my husband, but she was my dog.  Also, interestingly enough, she was a stakes winning racer and very fast - as long as she was at *her* track.  Once they moved her to a higher level, away from what was familiar to her, she only won a few times before being sent to adoption.

Anti anxiety medications helped sometimes, but not enough to justify their daily use.  She just needed what she needed, and as long as she had it she was fine staying within those boundaries.  I saved the trazadone for vet visits and the limited times we had visitors.

But she was happy and healthy 99% of the time.  She would play with toys.  She loved her food and treats.  She liked getting brushed and laying in the wading pool in the summer.  She liked having me sit near her bed and hold her paw while she slept.  

So I'll amend my earlier statement to say it's possible you have a spook, and yes, they can be more difficult to place.  People do become frustrated by their perceived lack of bonding and difficulties with "normal" life.  But if you can change the perspective and accept/provide what he needs in his world, they can be very rewarding companions.

[JaimeL]

Thank you, I will stop the walks and let him enjoy the house and backyard where he feels safe. I never wanted to give him the label of spook, I will continue to call him very shy.