Help: Ear Petting Results In Whimper/air Snap

[Guest cotaylo]

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first post. I am a new grey owner (only 10 days). Male, 2.5 years. I am still learning his behavior and so far he seems exceptionally sweet and is becoming more playful each day. We can pet him in his crate, on the floor and even wake him from a sleep with no adverse reactions.

 

However, when my husband or I pet his ears in just the right/wrong way, he lets out a whimper/yelp and sometimes he snaps (he has not actually bitten). So we've looked in his ears, smelled them for infection, and cleaned them - and found nothing out of the ordinary.

 

It appears that he just doesn't like his ears pulled up or down - straight back is ok, but any other way results in an adverse response.

 

We had a Siberian Husky (who was 14 before she passed) prior to our grey and nothing you did to her would have resulted in this snapping. Has anyone else had this problem/issue with their greyhound?

 

I'm not sure it's a problem or how I should address it... I'm afraid to correct him, for fear of doing something wrong. But, I also don't want it to become an issue, since we will likely be around children in our extended family (we don't have our own children yet). I want to raise a healthy, well-behaved grey with only appropriate correction.

 

Thanks in advance for your reply/suggestions!

[greysmom]

Greys ears are likely MUCH more sensitive than your husky's. Husky ears needed to be sturdy and deep to keep the cold out. Greys ears are thinner and more exposed towards the outside of the skull because they help disperse excess heat and keep out dirt, not to mention streamlining for running.

 

You cannot treat his ears the same way as your husky's. It hurts him. He might become less sensitive over time, but I doubt it. Get in the habit now of NOT petting him in a way that elicites growling and snapping. And become very careful when introducing him to children in the family - they must be instructed - and supervised! - to not pull his ears.

 

Small children should not be left alone with a dog anyway - it's just too dangerous. We've all seen the results of a small child cornering a greyhound, or inadvertently hurting one. There's a thread in the Rant section right now of a dog on death row because he snapped at a child who got into his food bowl.

[Guest mbfilby]

Welcome to GT..

 

Our Cy loves his ears rubbed. He groans and leans right into it and wants hard vigorous rubs, but it will sometimes go too far and he yelps. Clearly, it hurts. Not his fault, and I would not correct him for it.

 

Your hound just may not like his ears pulled. I wouldn't correct him for it. If it were me, I would try to get him used to having his ears touched with positive reinforcement, treats not correction.

[Hubcitypam]

I might run him by the vet for a looksee. I'm sure you know what you are doing, but if something seems unexplainable it's always nice to get a second look.

 

That said, I've heard some greys are wierd about ear pulling, etc. as their ears get checked for tattoos and maybe some people aren't as gentle as others, tho at 2.5 yours didn't run very long. That may be a total old wives tale but it sort of makes sense to me.

 

 

[Guest Greytluv]

My Danger hates his ears rubbed. He will yelp when you pet them. Someone once told me sometimes they pinch them at the track to get their attention

[Guest FijiHound]

Nugget loves getting her ear rubbed and will lean right into it BUT if you hold them no matter how lightly - she cries...except her tail is still wagging I don't think it hurts her because you can literally hold it between thumb and forefinger so lightly but yet the cry still comes out, if you rub them no matter how hard it's the BEST thing ever... don't get it maybe it's just a personal greyhound choice?

 

But then again you haven't had him too long. Nugget hated being hugged and used to freak out but 4 months later she wants hugs

Edited June 14, 2011 by FijiHound

[3greytjoys]

Welcome to GT!

 

One of our hounds has extremely sensitive ears. I leave his ears alone unless I'm cleaning them, and then only very gentle handling. When I remove his Martingale collar, I loosen it first and make sure the collar is rotated so the hardware doesn't go directly over his ears. This does require that I tighten it properly when it's going back on so he doesn't back out of his collar. He tolerates it just fine going on more snugly vs. removing it.

 

Nice explanation from Greysmom.

[Guest cotaylo]

Ya'll are awesome!

 

A BIG thanks to all of you for your prompt comments and advice. I really appreciate it. Duely noted about the husky/greyhound comparison.

 

I was happy to hear that others have similar experiences with their greys in that they are just more sensitive. My Grey (that's his name) is so weird about it. Like I said, I can pet his ears but if I handle them in a certain way (no matter how lightly) there is always a yelp and sometimes a snap.

 

It interesting to hear about how they may have disciplined him at the track with ear pinching or pulling - sad, but interesting that that may be a possible root of the behavior.

 

Thanks again and I'll be sure not to correct him but rather work on praise when handling his ears very carefully. If that doesn't work, we'll just avoid them. My sister-in-law is a vet so I'll probably have her look at them too.

 

And, I do understand the children precautions with greys. I'll be sure to be extra cautious - I just needed to know that I wasn't crazy and that my dog wasn't a "bad seed". I really didn't expect that he was, since he is especially sweet in all other areas, it's just nice to have some confirmation since greyhounds are a new breed for me.

 

Thank you all again!

Edited June 14, 2011 by cotaylo

[Guest HHHounds]

Our first grey Joe had fabulous ears - huge bat like ears that looked like great things to rub. He hated his ears being petted - he would give the greyhound scream of death if anyone rubbed them. I just explained that to our kids and visiting kids and they understood and left them alone. Otherwise he was greyt around people of all ages!

[Guest cotaylo]

Our first grey Joe had fabulous ears - huge bat like ears that looked like great things to rub. He hated his ears being petted - he would give the greyhound scream of death if anyone rubbed them. I just explained that to our kids and visiting kids and they understood and left them alone. Otherwise he was greyt around people of all ages!

 

Thank you HHHounds. Did your Joe ever snap at anyone for touching his ears? Our Grey has a few times. It's not really a mean snap (no growling), just kind of an "owwie" snap.

 

Edited to add: that 90% of the time it's just a yelp and no snap.

Edited June 14, 2011 by cotaylo

[Guest BrianRke]

My bridge girl, Cleo, absolutely DESPISED for her ears to be touched in any fashion. All 3 of my current greys love to have their ears rubbed but like others have said, if I do it a little to hard, they will yelp.

 

Yelping is one thing, but I believe the snapping should be followed by a firm NO.

[Guest BiancasMom]

Previous to my greyhound I had a Basset. I loved her ears and she loved to have them massaged and pet. My greyhound does not. It is tempting because they are so soft and floppy. You cannot really touch or massage the pinna or floppy part of her ear without her yelping. You can however massage the base of her ear by her head with the flat of your hand which she loves. I have head the vet check her ears and they were fine. She even yelps if you try to look at her tattoos. I didn't know it was a greyhound thing but now I do!

[EnzaFerrari]

Enza doesn't really like her ears touched by anyone but me. She has gotten better but still yelps if someone tugs at them. Although why I have to explain to people that tugging on a dog's ears is not appropriate is beyond me. However, I do want to caution that I doubt the dogs were disciplined by pulling/yanking on ear - that just seems like a huge stretch to me. If anything, they just are sensitive and don't like it. Not liking something doesn't mean they were abused/beaten/harmed in that manner. I know I loathe it when someone yanks my hair but it doesn't mean it's because someone dragged me across the floor by a ponytail.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Welcome to GT, and congratulations on your new hound. Also, kudos to you for searching out other opinions on how to deal with your new hound. Be prepared for people to give you lots of ideas. We all here love to give advise.

 

Its also great that your in-law is a vet, one super-huge important thing to note: Greyhound blood values are distinctly different from other breeds, as well as a very high majority of greyhounds have heart murmurs. Thyroid is another huge difference in greyhounds. The typical "snap" test for thyroid will come back as low thyroid in a greyhound nearly 100% of the time. Since your vet is a family member, she should be more receptive to learning about the differences in greyhounds compared to every other breed (that is if she doesn't already know). If you want any further info about greyhound blood values and such, written by a vet for vets you can look: http://d21c.com/buddyx2/Medical/drstack.html

 

One other thing to note: all dogs in the U.S. are raised basically as human surrogates. Therefore their reaction to things are predictable based upon human ideals. Greyhounds have been raised as a pack animal and to be an independent hunter. Please do not think because all the "dogs" that you have known your whole life would "never" snap that it is totally uncalled for out of a greyhound. I am not trying to lecture, but please realize that greyhounds so different from any other breed, you really need to forget all your "assumptions" on dog behavior.

 

Welcome to the greyhound cult. Get ready for collar obsession, sibling research and race history...

 

Chad

[NeylasMom]

 

Thanks again and I'll be sure not to correct him but rather work on praise when handling his ears very carefully. If that doesn't work, we'll just avoid them. My sister-in-law is a vet so I'll probably have her look at them too.

Agree with the recommendation to have them checked out by your vet just in case. Otherwise, praise probably isn't sufficient to affect any change regarding his response. Instead, get some really yummy human food (think lunch meat, canned chicken, or better yet your leftover steak scraps) and call him over to you. Gently touch his ear, immediately feed a piece of food. Repeat ad nauseum. When you start, touch his ears only in ways that you know he is already comfortable with and progress VERY slowly to to more handling. By very slowly, I mean do sessions of 10-20 repetitions and for at least the first couple of sessions, simply touch and feed. Then maybe touch for a few seconds and feed. Then barely stroke and feed. By the time you get to the point where you feel ready to do more actual handling of the ears, you should already be seeing evidence that he's associated ear contact with good things (food). You can check by touching his ear, then waiting a moment to see if he looks to you for food. If he does, then you know you've got that solid association to build on.

 

 

It can sound a little tedious, but assuming you've ruled out any potential source for pain, you can change his reaction from a negative one to a positive one. Having said that, I don't think you should take this to a level where he's tolerating you handling his ears in a way that's uncomfortable or painful for him, but if what you're doing shouldn't actual cause pain then I think it's a good idea to desensitize him to some ear touching/rubbing at least. You never know when a kid is going to run up to you out of the blue and do something unexpected or just not listen to you. Better safe than sorry.

[Guest sheila]

I was told once that some greys have sensitivity to their ears because handlers at the track sometime rip the muzzles off in a rough manner and it caused damage to the cartilage . I don't know if this is true, just something I heard somewhere along the way.

[Guest katethegreyt]

If you find nothing is causing the pain, I like the idea of trying to desensitize him to ear touching with treats (like NeylasMom said). He may never learn to like it (or he might!) but it would be good to get tolerant enough of it to not snap. People just like to play with soft greyhound ears, and if you're ever out in public and someone slips your notice and touches his ears, it would be nice if he just yelped instead of snapping = ) A yelp will get people to stop quickly and also to feel bad. A snap will also get them to stop, but they may be veeeeery upset with you and the dog. And a bite would be very bad.

 

I'm lucky, our girl loves ear rubs, and I loooove to play with them. They are so soft and velvety = ) I almost can't stand next to her without starting to play with her ears, I don't even really realize it, haha.

[Guest zombrie]

Nugget loves getting her ear rubbed and will lean right into it BUT if you hold them no matter how lightly - she cries...except her tail is still wagging I don't think it hurts her because you can literally hold it between thumb and forefinger so lightly but yet the cry still comes out, if you rub them no matter how hard it's the BEST thing ever... don't get it maybe it's just a personal greyhound choice?

 

This is exactly what Doolin does

[Batmom]

My angel Batman loved and my current boy Joseph loves ear rubs. But, move an ear in a certain way and you did / do get a yelp. So could be just a motion/direction that doesn't feel good and makes him think worse is to come. Vet check is a good idea; if nothing wrong, then just some caution and attention to detail .

[sobesmom]

Since this is SUCH a new grey to your home, just respect that you touched it in a way that it wasn't comfortable with... and don't do that for a while. After a while, try it again. And see. It may then be fine. Or not.

 

My grey, Diana, loves stroking her ears gently, but if you pull them up, or give a "ear scrutch rub", or try to open them to look inside - she SCREAMS!!!!! So I had the vet check for infection or mites....a couple times. .... NOTHING! There is no medical reason she deoesn't like her ears messed with... she JUST DOESN'T LIKE IT. So - we just don't rub her ears roughly. I don't like my feet touched - I figure it's the same kind of things. We all have our quirks.

[Jiffer]

angel Echo hated having her ears touched in certain ways. We respected that. As she got older, she allowed me to touch them in any manner, but hubby was still not allowed to cross the boundary. She and I had a very special relationship and bond.

 

It's all in finding what your greys enjoy, and what they dislike. As Grey becomes settled, you may find that he's more comfortable with having his ears fondled, but I wouldn't push the limits yet. I would echo that it is a good idea to have the vet take a peek just in case. Our other female came to us with severe infections in both ears which needed treatment.

 

Congrats btw. Aren't they just the most wonderful critters!

[Guest cotaylo]

Hey everyone. Thanks again for all the replies.

 

I wanted to update you with what we've been doing. Grey has been pretty good with the ear petting - it's not like we couldn't touch them at all before. But, it was just a certain way that would elicit the yelp and sometimes a snap.

 

We've been praising him a lot as we pet his ears and are being gentle. This has helped a lot. In fact, no more snaps so far and the yelping has become minimal if at all. Although, we haven't been pushing him with it - not trying to make him do something that hurts him if that is the case. So, we figure if we are gentle and do it with praise, we can keep doing a little more to see how things go. But we are taking it slow. Right now, I think he's been so focused on hearing the sweet talk that he doesn't focus on the actual ear petting.

 

p.s. He is just starting to learn his new name and we are very excited! Although, getting him to wait at the door to let us go first is quite a challenge.\

 

Colleen

[sobesmom]

Hey everyone. Thanks again for all the replies.

 

I wanted to update you with what we've been doing. Grey has been pretty good with the ear petting - it's not like we couldn't touch them at all before. But, it was just a certain way that would elicit the yelp and sometimes a snap.

 

We've been praising him a lot as we pet his ears and are being gentle. This has helped a lot. In fact, no more snaps so far and the yelping has become minimal if at all. Although, we haven't been pushing him with it - not trying to make him do something that hurts him if that is the case. So, we figure if we are gentle and do it with praise, we can keep doing a little more to see how things go. But we are taking it slow. Right now, I think he's been so focused on hearing the sweet talk that he doesn't focus on the actual ear petting.

 

p.s. He is just starting to learn his new name and we are very excited! Although, getting him to wait at the door to let us go first is quite a challenge.\

 

Colleen

 

Good job. Just remember - this dog might never want it's ears messed with in certain ways - and there's no reason to fuss about that. This is not a Lab. It doesn't want to be handled like one. Greys also don't like to be thumped on the side like a lot of dogs do. You'll find enough important stuff that you need to work through with a grey - let the minor stuff go.

[GreytHurleyDawg]

Congrats!! And there has been a lot of good advice (as usual) on this topic!! I just thought I would chime in because we have three greyhounds and Hurley has very thin, delicate ears: he is black but you can almost see through them if you straighten them out and shine a light behind them! Lol. Our Woodie has the THICKEST, largest ears I have ever seen....his might be as thick as a normal dog (well, maybe no one is normal!)...he loves for his ears to be messed with! Petra has thinner ears but she doesn't display any sensitivity except if you tug or pinch them.

 

But Hurley just has his views on how his ears should be touched!! He will yelp and snap (looking like he would be happier if he got a bite in but he rarely does make any contact with his teeth.....rarely, but not never!) if they are pulled to straighten!!!! I know there is a permanent crease where his ears flop over: this is where I think it hurts him. On the inside of the ear, you can clearly see the fold: don't ever hurt that or be prepared for his retaliation!! He is a very good-natured dog but with the ears, he just wants you to back off!! This being said, I rub his ears all the time but usually at the base or very gently. He approves certain scritchies so I know he is okay. I definitely have a strong bond with my gentlehound, Hurley, and my husband would get snapped at for possibly the same touching. I can only say it this way: my husband's intent is to roughhouse and be playful whereas my intent is to scratch him so that he gets a good scritchie: no more, no less. Hurley can sense that Jim wants to "ramp it up" versus my "safe" massaging.

 

I'm sure you will also find that his ears are very descriptive of his mood.....Hurley just came close to me because it is thundering and he is mad at the noise so his ears were laying flat back and I was able to completely cover them with my hands and pet downwards. When they are straight up, no dog wants to be ear rubbed! When they are at half mast, you have about a 50% success rate. It takes time for them to become comfortable enough to trust you and understand you.....his ears will probably help you define your relationship. Right now, his ears are being used to perceive everything around him and he doesn't want to be disturbed at figuring everything out!! Lol

 

Thank you for posting this: I have a newfound appreciation for the differences in my greyhounds' ears!!

 

Try scratching right behind the ear very gently and if he ever backs/moves into it or seems to be smiling, you can take that as a go ahead to keep on scratching!!

 

P.s. I have never personally had any children touch my dogs' ears in a bad way....they usually just stroke the head or pat the head. But these are just children we see on walks. They have never been in a home with children: i suppose that's where the danger comes into it because there is so much time and a feeling of home that you would not get on a walk.

[3greytjoys]

p.s. He is just starting to learn his new name and we are very excited! Although, getting him to wait at the door to let us go first is quite a challenge.

Colleen

 

It's great that you are working to teach him "wait." That's very important in retired life. Greyhounds can learn to "wait" but it often takes more time than you'd think. Racing Greyhounds are taught to bolt as fast as they can out of track box doors/gates for races. Retired pets being taught to "wait" at a door or gate goes against their previous training. Similar to a "come" recall, I'd never trust "wait" as a 100% sure thing, especially when getting out of a car or any non-fenced area. Some people place a portable "ex-pen" (exercise pen) in a U-shape surrounding their front door (either inside or outside) to create a safety zone so their hound doesn't escape by accident. (Our hounds are behind a baby-gate in a separate room whenever the front door is opened.)