Distracting A Greyhound Who Is Focused On Squirrels

[Guest iLoveLucie]

Our new foster dog is REALLY interested in squirrels!

 

If he sees one when we are on a walk he'll stop and zone in on it - ready to pounce on his prey. When our girl used to do this, we'd distract her and call her to get her to move in the other direction, entice her with a treat. But once our boy sees a squirrel he is in the zone! I can barely drag him away; he's pretty strong. He has no intrest in us or treats or anything. The next time we walk by that location, he goes right back into hunting mode searching for the squirrel.

 

Any thoughts on how we can help work through this prey drive - or will this always be a "thing" for him?

[Guest TheDoggfather]

Change your route.

[Guest Lakota]

It will probably always be an issue for him.

 

Sometimes it's effective to actually move between the dog and squirrel to break his line of sight. This will help you be able to re-direct him to continue the walk without it becoming a question of who's stronger.

[XTRAWLD]

He's high prey right now cause he's so fresh off the track. It will tone down with time but they have to learn not to jerk and drag you on your walk!

 

I will have professional experience training Ryder on "not to pull" in my class this week - so I may have better thoughts at that time. However, I have never done "distraction" training. In our previous experience, we ensure the dog is at our side, and the leash is kept short. We walk on, you should ignore that squirrel at all costs, because the dog will pick up on your feeling towards it! If we have to control the dog to turn etc, we step in front of the dog so our leg is in their way and off we turn. When the dog is beside you, you have more control should the dog suddenly jerk forward, keep some slack - maybe wear gloves so you don't burn if he pulls lots. We've also found harnesses to work really well (it actually gives more power to the dog, however I feel like I'm in control and I'm not pulling on his neck during these power struggles). In my class this week, the trainer is hoping to put a halti or a gentle leader on Ryder (good luck) LOL. If you can control the head, you can control the dog - is the premise of the halti.

[Guest bigbrindlebunny]

I can't help. Two years ago Pete saw some feral cats in my Apartment complex and he's STILL hunting for them.

[Guest TheDoggfather]

He's high prey right now cause he's so fresh off the track.

 

Two things that are mutually exclusive. Having a high prey drive has nothing to do with a dogs career as a racer ... it's something that's innate.

[christinepi]

Tracker has been quite leash reactive with other dogs. While I recognize that prey drive is even more intense, Tracker certainly went into that exact zone when encountering dogs, even when seeing them from quite a distance, but we were able with the help of a good trainer to get him to refocus on us when needed (well, mostly). There's quite a bit out there on "changing the underlying emotional state" training, I think Patricia McDonnell has written a lot on this, but there are a lot of other good sources also. Most important is to start working with the dog under threshold and then gradually working up towards your goal.

 

That said, Tracker's prey drive isn't particularly high, so I may not know what I'm talking about...

Edited April 6, 2011 by christinepi

[Maddiesmom]

Try "Leave it" or getting him to focus his attention on something else such as you.. It may work and it may not.

Maddie has been off the track for almost 6 years and if she sees a squirrel or a rabbit in the backyard- they better run. She has caught 2 bunnies in the 5 and half years I have had her. Both lived to see another day. On walks she has seen bunnies and I do leave it and divert her attention onto me.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Maddiesmom

[Fruitycake]

I have to laugh at the idea of changing the route. Allie (non-grey) is our hunter and she is totally focused on squirrels. She has her MANY "squirrel trees" in the neighborhood that she always has to check, because she's seen squirrels there a couple of times. Now that it's spring, and the squirrels are out and about and flirting and fighting and paying no attention she's watching the trees avidly. I've gotten her to the point of being able to get her to sit to watch them, and she'll lean forward but if I remind her she's in a sit she'll stay and only her eyes follow them. That probably took about 5 months to train, and she already could sit when not distracted when I started asking for it.

 

Any training to do other things going on away from the lures of squirrels would probably be the place to start. Don't expect success immediately, or even quickly. At first I had to get between Al and the squirrel with my body and then block her from being able to move and see it and then get her to sit. She's loads better now, but still surprises us sometimes when she's seen something that we haven't. [Monty, grehound, meanwhile doesn't understand or care. He's had a pair of squirrels run *under* him when on a walk, and the only reaction was his coming back to Mommy and looking for reassurance that the squirrels weren't gonna get him. Crazy dog.]

 

Oh, the funniest thing was that Al will still watch the squirrels in the trees as she walks - and she's walked into a snowdrift, a sign, a retaining wall and a tree. [eta: not on the same walk!]

Edited April 6, 2011 by Fruitycake

[XTRAWLD]

While both my boys have perked their ears and start trying to go after squirrels/birds/cats....we've had Kasey nearly 6 years now and he's mellowed out quite a bit, but while he still perks his ears at the movement and the object, he doesn't try to drag us down the road. He stops and stares. Currently Ryder is nearly at that stage right now, and we have had him 10-11 months. So whatever we've done with our training (aforementioned) has worked this seemingly out of their system. I don't think it's impossible to get the dog to stop the pulling behaviour upon seeing the object....you just have to work with them. Who is the boss here - them or you? Note: This is in reference to walking with the dog, leaving them loose to their own devices in a yard or park is a totally different story.

Edited April 6, 2011 by XTRAWLD

[GeorgeofNE]

You might try a head halter.

 

Some feel it's easier to get a stubborn dog moving that way.

[greytluck]

Walking with a stroller cured Corinna of her squirrel obsession pretty quickly, lol. I walk the dogs everyday with my dd in tow,the few times corinna would get really zoned in on them and then start darting around she wouldn't be watching where she was going and end up with the stroller hitting her in the process. It didn't take long before she realized she had to focus on the stroller not the squirrels. She barely glances at them now where as before you couldn't break her focus.

 

Just want to add I never hit her purposely, but I certainly didn't stop for her antics.

[Hubcitypam]

I can't help. Two years ago Pete saw some feral cats in my Apartment complex and he's STILL hunting for them.

Isn't that the truth? Mine remember every bush they ever saw a cat under.

[Guest sheila]

I have to laugh at the idea of changing the route.

 

Me too! I'm not sure there is such a thing as a 'squirrel free' zone in any direction I could choose to walk around here.

I've had two hounds that at first would pull, lunge or even go bronco when they have seen squirrels. I've just kept them on a short leash and used verbal corrections and eventually they settled down. You might want to consider a harness and again keep it at about a 2ft length from you hand so you have better control.

[NevadasMom]

Bring a squirt gun along on your walk & try it.

[MaryJane]

Dogs that are just off the track will "zone in" like that and after some time and patience, some will eventually "come off that zone" - it's just that everything is so new to them so, it'll just takes time. Meanwhile, they will remember "every spot" that they saw something and perk up when they come to that spot again but, after enough times of not seeing something "again in that spot" they seem to start losing interest in that particular spot. It helps if you can walk them at least once a day to get them "exposed" to the world.

[cleptogrey]

i have found that after some basic obedience training a dog w/ a high prey drive responds much faster and readily to your "leave it" command since they know what it is. my dogs have "high prey drive" be it squirrels, birds, cats or deer. the longer you have them and consisitantly work w/ the same commands and expect the same thing the easier. most of the time mine stand and look except when that tempting doe pops out of the woods and i have a 76lb dog 5 ft up in the air. after being brought back to earth and a small correction he is fine. it's natural, i've had calm relaxed greys jump up onto 4 ft walls to get closer to the "bait". one soft,swift movement and up on the wall, it all comes w/ the territory.(those females sure do know how to jump- all that kenneling on the top).

[Guest BrianRke]

2 of my 3 do the exact same thing. I have just come to accept that stopping for squirrel and cat sightings are a big part of our walks.

[Guest june]

One of my girls is very high "prey drive" and when I got her she would try to drag me to the trees if she saw a squirrel. She is better now instead of dragging me she stops and "alerts." I usually give her a second or two to get a good look and the give her a "lets go" which seems to work for her.

Good luck. I think each dog is different and you will probably need to try several things to find out what works for yours.

june

[Guest TheDoggfather]

I have to laugh at the idea of changing the route.

That's fine... but, if you can't control your dog.. or if you let your dog control a situation, then look forward to months of "training".

 

 

 

[Guest AboveTheClouds]

I have to laugh at the idea of changing the route.

That's fine... but, if you can't control your dog.. or if you let your dog control a situation, then look forward to months of "training".

 

Our issue is rabbits, not squirrels, but I agree.

 

ATC

Edited April 9, 2011 by AboveTheClouds

[Fruitycake]

I have to laugh at the idea of changing the route.

That's fine... but, if you can't control your dog.. or if you let your dog control a situation, then look forward to months of "training".

 

Our issue is rabbits, not squirrels, but I agree.

 

ATC

 

 

Most certainly you shouldn't allow the dog to control a situation. With a dog that you can get to obey a sit or wait or stay or leave it command (whichever works in your situation) means that the impossible "take a different route to avoid triggers" doesn't need to be what you have to try to do. I personally would have to go to the Sahara to avoid things that Allie won't alert over (she is triggered by birds now too since her "cousin" - a Brittany Spaniel - came over and showed her that they are just as exciting as squirrels and bunnies) but now that I can get her to sit and watch, we're fine. If you know you have a high-density squirrel/rabbit zone and can avoid it, then do so AND train so you can control the situation when it does happen. Because it will. If you live in an area where they are everywhere, training constantly and consistently is all that you can do and it means also working at home with none of the gigantic temptations like squirrels with their fast movements and fluffy tails that wag as excitingly as a flag to a bull.

 

That's all I was sayin'. "Changing route" doesn't work when the triggers are everywhere!

[XTRAWLD]

Fruitcake - I totally agree. Changing the route and avoiding the situation isn't always the best idea.

 

Ryder is in obedience class and I spoke to the trainer about how skiddish he still is. Last week, there was work being done at a house down the street and a trailer was parked out front and a guy was shovelling sand and banging around. Ryder got spooked. I stood there and asked for a sit and waited. 45 minutes and he finally sat and calmed down. I moved down the street and waited again for a sit - took 30 minutes this time. We continued on our walk, I got a sit within 10 minutes of asking, then 5, then 3 and so on. It's a method of training called "flooding". You expose the dog to the "element" as much as possible until they calm down and do as they are told.

 

To relate this to people - lets say you have a fear of spiders. I will lock you into a room FULL of spiders. You can freak out and go mental but if I let you out in that state, you will be worse off than you were when you went in. If I let you out when you are calm and have conquered the fear, you will be better off.

 

Often people don't want to train the dog this way because it takes too long and no one has patience, but it is nearly the best method out there to get a dog to conquer it's fear or get over their excitement etc., and gives the owner the control.

[Guest sheila]

For us walks are supposed to be fun and not an exercise in obedience. I never ask my dogs to 'sit' during a walk nor would I ever consider standing around for 30-45 minutes waiting for one. I don't mind if my dog gets excited if she sees something exciting and wants to look at it. I only mind if she decides that she must lunge or pull. This is not allowed. A quick leash correction along with a sharp 'EH!' has always done the trick. Occasionally I even step off the path and let her stare longingly up the tree where the squirrel just went. She sniffs, she stares and when I tell her it's time to move on she snorts and gets back to the walk with an occasional backward glance.

[Guest Giselle]

I've been away for a little while due to Giselle's passing, but the thing that really keeps me going these days is training, animal behavior, and teaching the former two to my undergraduate students. I couldn't help myself from this topic. There are a lot of statements in this thread that I have some issues with, but I won't bother nit-picking the details because the subjective comments don't matter. In the end, it's what you actually DO and what you actually TRAIN that matters.

 

Every interaction you have with your dog can be classified as "training". There are inherent rewards and punishments in everything a dog does (granted, this is a very classic behaviorism-perspective, but this is probably the most accurate theory we have to describe and modify modern animal behavior). The dog jumps on people because it is a way to diffuse excitement and obtain affection(reward). It pulls because it is a way to move forward (reward). It doesn't bark because the owner will hit him (punishment). It doesn't bite because the owner will jerk his leash or whack his nose (punishment). Animals are quite easy, once you can find the motivation for its reward.

 

ALL dogs like to stare at squirrels due to a primal prey drive (reward). What reason do they have to focus on you, if you've never trained an alternate behavior and have never seriously spent your time training eye contact? I'll tell ya - NONE. So, what do you do? Make sure you train strong, FOUNDATIONAL behaviors [i.e. eye contact], practice them, and constantly reward them through fun training exercises/games until that squirrel running across the street is "SOOOO-not-a-big-deal" anymore. How does this work? You can start by:

- Teach eye contact via "Doggy Zen" (aka free shape it)

- Look at That! game

- Use Premack's Principle

- Practice. (It's really not that difficult.)

 

Also, I respectfully disagree with flooding. No training session should ever take 45 minutes to achieve the desired behavior. In my opinion, if my dog isn't getting it in 5 minutes, I'm doing something wrong and I need to tailor my methods. I also respectfully disagree that this is something you should just "live with". Did I just "live with" the fact that Ivy was terribly dog aggressive? No. I spent years culminating her into the Ambassadog that she is now, and she accompanies me at every talk, every class, every handling workshop that I teach. Again, it doesn't take months. It takes minutes. If it's taking you more than a few minutes to see progress, you're probably doing something wrong. Been there done that. But when you do it right, you create a much more operant dog, a dog willing to please, wanting to work, easier to handle. So, why not train??

 

ETA: Repeat Sits Backwards also works extremely well for these situations. The only caveat is that some people don't want to teach "Sit" to their greyhounds. If your grey does know sit, however, Repeat Sits Backwards are fun to work with because they only need to sit for ~2 seconds before you get up again:

Dr. Yin shows the activity with an aggressive dog. The same principle applies with a non-aggressive, just plain 'ol distracted dog.

http://drsophiayin.com/resources/video_full/podees_aggressive_to_other_dogs

If you have further questions, let me know. I work with her on a regular basis.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Giselle