My Greyhound Has Repeatedly Bitten Me

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

Remind yourself and your husband that neither of you will ever forgive yourselves if your daughter gets bit in the face. My cousin got bitten by a dog when she was little, that was 35 years ago and the scar is still there, plain as day, right on her face. Or heaven forbid it be one of her friends. You've done all you can, in your situation, to stop the biting. I agree with the posters who are saying this is a very serious situation. I've had many dogs in pain and have not been bit, and I've certainly stepped on them and have not been bit. He does have a very low bite threshhold. Please try to remember that he might be happier with another owner and a different household. Again, so so sorry

[o_rooly]

No advice to add, just want to beam good thoughts your way.

 

Wishing you the best in a complicated situation. Please keep us posted, and please don't feel that you are being judged for whatever you decide, whether it is to get help or rehome Jesse. You know the situation better than any of us, and it is so great that you are thinking things through.

[BootsyCollins]

I'd like to add a bit of perspective to see if this changes anyone's thoughts. When we received Jesse, he had a severe blockage where the large and small intestines come together. Everything he ate went right through him. Our rescue group did not catch this. He should never have been in our home in this condition. He weighed roughly 40 lbs and was in a great deal of pain. HIs surgery involved splitting his entire abdomen and the vet kept him for an entire week. It was a major procedure. Once he recovered, his weightwent up to 85 lbs. My point is that the three initial bite incidents that occurred while petting all happened within his first several months in our home before his surgery or shortly following his recovery and we had credited them to settling in to his new home and medical trauma. There have been no bites our growls while petting since (except growling at a teenage girl he did not know who leaned over him while he was in his bed). It has been roughly a year since the last petting bite.

 

That being said, when I accidentally stepped on him and he launched at me in the night then growled fiercely at me when i asked for the bone, I had to ask myself - is he a danger? He now plays very well with me in the floor and often requests playtime. Perhaps he has settled in and the two recent incidents are nothing to be concerned over. Perhaps not. I'll be interested to see if this changes anyone's stance. Again, I will call the rescue group and the vet today.

 

Thanks again!

 

I am no expert (just ask Bootsy ), but to me, this is significant. He hasn't had any incidents in a year, and the two recent incidents can be easily explained and prevented with a little dog and human training.

 

Trade up is a fun training to do. Your daughter can learn it with you. You can even use a muzzle for the smaller bits. Sleep aggression is pretty easily dealt with. If he still has a crate, try crating him at night to prevent any accidents.

 

Good luck! Interested to follow along as you make your decisions and move forward (whatever your ultimate decision may be)

[Guest LindsaySF]

I'm going to be frank here. I'm the adoption coordinator for my group, and I would not have this dog in a home with a 7 year-old child. This is not a good situation. From what you have told us (pain or not), this dog can and will draw blood on people. More than one petting/sleep incident has occurred. I personally think a different environment (adult only, experience with space/sleep aggressive hounds) would be a better match for this particular dog.

 

 

There have been no bites our growls while petting since (except growling at a teenage girl he did not know who leaned over him while he was in his bed).

Why was a girl the dog did not know leaning over him while he was in his bed? You know he has a history of sleep/space aggression, bites with blood, so why was this allowed to occur? Was the girl informed of this dog's history? Actually, why was she even allowed to interact with this dog? You are extremely lucky this girl was not bitten.

 

 

 

If you do decide to work with this dog, I would keep in very close contact with your adoption group, and also hire a qualified behaviorist. And muzzle with a kennel muzzle. Also, while it is your choice to have your family and children interact with this dog, I would not let guests (your daughter's friends, etc) interact with this dog. That's a possible law suit waiting to happen from an upset parent. And as mentioned before, if it is reported to animal control, this dog could end up euthanized. Please be careful.

 

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2011 by LindsaySF

[Guest GreyMa]

I'm going to be frank here. I'm the adoption coordinator for my group, and I would not have this dog in a home with a 7 year-old child. This is not a good situation. From what you have told us (pain or not), this dog can and will draw blood on people. More than one petting/sleep incident has occurred. I personally think a different environment (adult only, experience with space/sleep aggressive hounds) would be a better match for this particular dog.

 

 

There have been no bites our growls while petting since (except growling at a teenage girl he did not know who leaned over him while he was in his bed).

Why was a girl the dog did not know leaning over him while he was in his bed? You know he has a history of sleep/space aggression, bites with blood, so why was this allowed to occur? Was the girl informed of this dog's history? Actually, why was she even allowed to interact with this dog? You are extremely lucky this girl was not bitten.

 

 

 

If you do decide to work with this dog, I would keep in very close contact with your adoption group, and also hire a qualified behaviorist. And muzzle with a kennel muzzle. Also, while it is your choice to have your family and children interact with this dog, I would not let guests (your daughter's friends, etc) interact with this dog. That's a possible law suit waiting to happen from an upset parent. And as mentioned before, if it is reported to animal control, this dog could end up euthanized. Please be careful.

 

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

 

 

 

 

Lindsay, in response to your question, we have 6 dog beds throughout out home. The teenage girl was our son's 17 year-old girlfriend. She walked over to him in our family room and bent over to pet him. Since he greeted her with a wagging tail when she arrived and the only issues we had experienced prior to that point were accredited to (i) his being new in our home; (ii) his medical condition; and (iii) his resulting recovery from surgery and since there had been no further issues for many months, we had no reason to expect that he would growl at her. I feel like the growl was a good thing in retrospect. He told her that he did not want to be petted and she respected that.

 

In my 40+ years I have always had canine family members (including a Chow, a Dalmation, and a Boxer - with no biting issues) so this situation is very perplexing to me. Jesse is my first (and my husband's 9th greyhound - he used to foster for the local rescue group). I am grateful for the insight and candid feedback provided by everyone. You are helping me to see this situation from every possible perspective which is exactly what I wanted and needed.

 

Our rescue group leader is supposed to call me back this afternoon. I will keep you all posted.

[Guest Swifthounds]

You've gotten some good advice and I've only got a minute or so, but I wanted to post a quick comment. Your husband is correct in that dogs are rarely to blame for a bite. With rare exception, they are merely acting and reacting based on instinct and the circumstances presented to them and using the rules truce been taught.

 

In your particular situation, your dog has learned over time that when he is fearful or uncomfortable, a bite removes the threat effectively and swiftly. Had you come here or to a decent adoption group after the first bite, the subsequent issues could have been avoided. I say that not to chide you, but so that you'll learn from this experience and be better prepared to either work with your hound, or with any other dogs you may have in the future.

 

Children to small to reliably follow rules (eg most 8 and younger) require constant supervision with a dog, especially a large dog. They should not ever be allowed to enter the dog' crates or bed area and they should be taught never to approach a laying/sleeping dog.

 

Essentially, the human/dog relationship is about trust and boundaries. It's about teaching ground rules to dogs and to people and sticking to them. This builds trust and creates an environment where each can predict the others behavior, which creates order and security for hound and human.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Swifthounds

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

No. Makes no difference. You don't really know why he bites and you never will, you just know that he does and you need to deal with it like that. I'm a trainer so forgive me if I'm a bit straight, but I find that people have a tendency to develop a "backstory" around their dogs, especially if they are rescues or adopted, to help them live with their dogs' "quirks". The fact that he drew blood is significant because it takes it from snapping to biting. It tells you, reliably, that the dog has a low bite threshhold, and FAR more more important is that he drew blood, and not just once. That means that he also has bad bite inhibition i.e. how hard he makes contact with skin once he gets there, because he's got a HUGE amount of jaw control and a launch does not automatically mean punctured skin. So what he's done is twofold: he's decided it's appropriate to grab you and he's not interested in restraining his tooth pressure - that's not a novice's dog.

 

I totally agree with this, especially since you have a young child and it seems a busy household with visitors and such. The dog should be muzzled at all times and evaluated asap. I have a dog who had surgery, was in a great deal of pain and never bit or growled at a single person or animal.

[Guest GreyMa]

I have been in touch with our adoption group. They are sending a trainer out ASAP to evaluate the situation. Thanks All!

 

Also, I have one correction to my original post. In speaking with our adoption group leader I learned that he had been in the rescue system for some time before we got him, he just hadn't been in one place for a substantial period of time. I misstated this so I want to correct it. Also, I don't think there is any way they could have known about his medical condition, which was very rare and difficult to diagnose. The seasoned vet who operated on him (and regularly donates his time to greyhound care) has only seen the condition twice in his career. Our adoption group and their volunteer vets have been very supportive.

 

Thanks again all!

[Guest momofevie]

Glad you got the adoption group/vets involved. Sending good thoughts as you work through this.

[Laurenbiz]

In a large percentage of the incidents you describe, there is a common theme. The person bitten was in the dog's space, or the dog was startled. Reaching into the crate, or petting on the floor can cause some Greyhounds to snap or bite. Some of them have space issues, and those areas are his space. He had his own space since he was 6 months old and went to track training, then he had only a week before he had to learn how to live in a house with people and all of the rules changed.

 

Yes yes yes! Exactly what I was thinking as I read your post.

 

I assume that your biggest concern is about the child's safety. I suggest making sure that your dog is muzzled whenever it is around children. But, past that, I don't know if I can offer much advice. This sounds like you'd benefit from a consultation with an animal behaviorist. I've taken Bernie to an obedience class, and the trainer never covered space aggression. I don't know too much about this problem.

 

Good luck

[kudzu]

You need to contact the group you got him from ASAP.

 

He needs to be evaluated by a vet first, and then a behaviorist.

This ^^ most definitly. There is clearly some problem.

 

I do agree that medical issues, the stress of being newly retired & placed in your home could all have contributed to the initial problems. Dogs usually give very subtle signals that so many of us might miss or misinterpret. As has been said, when the dog feels his warning signs have been unheeded he escalates to more obvious forms of communication. Learning more about canine body language can help that. It does sound like he is still apprehensive, fearful, uncertain or in some ways distrustful. Training for both dog & humans can help a lot with that. Management skills such as trading up can help with resource guarding. Allowing a dog to be left alone when in assigned spaces can help with space issues though. Though long term the goal should be to resolve both those issues rather than just managing them. Teaching skills like Give, Leave It, Drop It, Kennel, Up or Stand, both training & conditioning him to not only allow but also feel comfortable in his space will be important. NILIF can help a great deal. If it is a case that he has learned that he can make what is bothering him most at that moment go away through growling or biting then a careful mix of training, conditioning & counter-conditioning is likely to help him overcome this with time.

 

My biggest concerns though with the above plan are these:

1) It sounds like you went a period without these displays. If that is true then I would wonder what happened to restart the problem. A medical issue would be first & foremost on my mind. Has the blockage recurred for some reason, perhaps an adhesion? Or has some other problem developed? I would want a CBC & blood chem plus screening for thyroid dysfunction or tick borne disease. Lyme disease in particular has developed a reputation as having potential to cause aggression for whatever reason. A GT member recently had a previously sweet Golden put on a very aggressive display & was subsequently found to have Lyme disease. Or have you had some change in the home or lifestyle that could have upset him?

2) You have a young child plus at least one older one. Usually that means many visitors. As you clearly already realize, the risks to your family & others is there for a severe bite to be inflicted. What you have described are all circumstances where any dog could be startled, frightened or disturbed enough to threaten, perhaps even snap. Most do not though. You have to decide if a dog who has felt the need to deal with his problems in this manner is safe for your family to live with even if you resolve whatever is currently troubling him.

 

Many people do choose to work on the issues, being willing to take the risk of possible injury. It is to your credit that you want to address the problem & try to resolve it. I know you want to keep your dog. But is that really in the best interests of all concerned? Only your family can decide. We are glad you are asking questions & happy you have joined GT to look for some answers. I realize some of these are not the answers you want but best to hear them so you have a variety of information and opinions to consider.

 

Wishing you & your family all the best. I am very sorry you have had these problems. It is a difficult situation indeed.

Edited March 9, 2011 by kudzu

[JenniferS]

First off, I want to say I'm sorry you and your family are going through this, I know how scary it can be. That being said, I commend you for seeking advice and trying to find a responsible solution, that is very refreshing!

My first greyhound was space aggressive. He never bit me, but he snapped at me and others often. I was very afraid and didn't know what to do, and this was my first greyhound. I reached out to my group, had a full vet check, hired and behaviorist, and found Greytalk! You will get to hear a lot of similiar situations on here which is greyt to you know you are not alone.

My situation was different since I don't have kids, but essentially along with training and extreme vigilance in all situations, I was able to live with his space agression which did get better but was never "cured".

I know I may not have upheld my end of the training as well as I should have, but I also learned to respect his space and the fact that he was never going to be a "cuddly" hound. I've had three greyhounds now, the other two I could do anything to, lay down next to them and nuzzle their nose, but with my first, no way, I would've been asking to get bit.

Some people will tell you it is unacceptable for any dog to snap at you, but I learned to make this work for me and my dog and we lived happily in love together for 7 years

Feel free to PM if you want to chat...I could write a book!

[Guest katethegreyt]

To start, I am not overly experienced with greys (just got our first a couple of months ago), but I have spent most of my life being on the training end of the horse business (trainer's kid then did it on my own for a bit and now am a fairly serious amateur). In the years I've spent around animals, I've seen SO many difficult situations that could be instantly solved by making a better match between owner and animal. I think sometimes people's urge to "do the right thing" makes them feel they MUST keep the animal no matter what. I try to counsel people to forget about their concept of being noble and sticking with the animal through thick and thin and to instead think about the animal's best options. Often times, the animal may be happier and YOU may be happier if that animal is in another home.

 

If you're having pretty serious trouble with an animal (biting counts, even if it's only been a handful of times and may have a "reasonable" excuse), there are two questions to ask yourself: Is there a better home out there for the dog? Do I have the resources to find that home? If both answers are yes, I almost think it's your responsibility to NOT keep the animal and find them a new home. Plus, as others have said and you are well aware, having a child makes the whole situation infinitely more difficult - if you did not have a young child, there might be a bit more wiggle room.

 

Again, I am new to greys, so I'm no expert, but I feel SO lucky to have stumbled upon a breed (well, researched the crap out of actually, haha) that has such a wonderful established support group. Most adoption groups are extremely supportive and make it possible to "return" a dog without it being a death sentence like when you're adopting from a typical shelter. You shouldn't let yourself feel like you've "failed" the dog or anything like that. You and the dog both have options, and because of that, it would be hard for me to say you should keep a dog that poses a pretty serious risk to you, your children and their friends.

 

I guess I'm just trying to say that no matter how much you love the dog, you should NOT feel obligated to keep him because of that love or because you feel you "owe" it to him. I would seriously consider letting the group rehome him to a place where there are no children and where there is someone with a good deal of experience with this. Biting is a serious danger even if it's "only" happened a few times. As another poster pointed out, it doesn't matter that he may have been in pain or had a good reason to bite, the fact that he is willing to bite hard in those situations (where many other dogs might just whine or grumble) means he's willing to bite hard in other situations that maybe haven't come up yet. For him, biting is an acceptable defense, and that's not acceptable in your family.

 

Don't feel bad about it or beat yourself up about it if his best home is not yours. There are so many wonderful kid-loving greys out there that also need homes as well as many loving grey-owners that are better equipped to handle this situation and are more than happy to do so.

 

Good luck! And may you all find a solution that makes everyone happy and safe = )

Edited March 10, 2011 by katethegreyt

[robinw]

How's it going, Dewbailey? I was hoping to find a positive update

[Guest GreyMa]

Hi Robin,

 

Thanks for asking. The trainer (highly recommended by our rescue group) comes out on Thursday. I will update you all when I know more. In the meantime, Jesse has been an angel.

[Guest TexasGreytMom]

In our experience, some dogs do want to be only dogs and do not want to be around children. One pup we brought home lunged and snapped at my DS who was merely sitting on the floor next to him - DH and I both witnessed it. The lunging and snapping wasn't a warning action, either - he would have bitten DS if he had reached him. We just didn't feel safe around him after that. Regardless of what the reasoning was behind the pup's action, I have to have peace of mind in my own home, especially around my children. There are just too many easy going, happy go lucky grey pups available to make your life and home miserable by keeping one who is not a good fit for your family.

 

The pup I mentioned above found a wonderful home as a "single child" to an unmarried guy with no children and the two adore each other. No further incidents.

 

Each grey has s unique personality and there is nothing at all wrong with returning a pup that is not good for your family dynamics. It's difficult to do so, and it feels as if you're admitting defeat or are a failure (at least that's how we felt), but it's much better for you and your pup to be in an environment that's best and safest for all concerned. Don't take any chances with your family members or yourself is my advice.

 

Hugs to you - hoping you find peace soon.

Edited March 19, 2011 by TexasGreytMom

[Guest GreyMa]

Hi all,

 

I can't tell you how grateful I am for each of your heartfelt comments.  I have learned so much in the last week. 

 

Following our risk assesment, the consensus is that we had some very rare and serious medical issues early on that resulted in an extreme amount of pain and distrust which we are now past. However, we are currently dealing with space aggression and startle issues that are workable. Our trainer is fabulous and fortunately I work from home and my husband is retired so we are positioned to focus on working through our situation. Additionally, our home is laid out in such a way that my daughter has 1,500 sq. ft. of dog free play space.  

 

We are all participating in benevolent leadership training and we have learned to recognize our boy's stress signals so that we may be respectful of his need for space.

 

Thanks to you all! 

[Guest Greytluv]

I'm so happy to read that you're working through this.

 

to you and your boy

Edited March 19, 2011 by Greytluv

[robinw]

That is great news! Keep us posted, ok?

[MaryJane]

That is really nice news - made my day! Hope the training works out well.

[JaneW]

That's great news!

[mychip1]

Wonderful! Continued good wishes.

[Guest greytbookert]

I'm glad to hear that you are willing to work with the issues. I've kept quiet until now. I have 2 bounce "biters" in our house and they are different compared to all other hounds that I know of, where they need structure. One needs to know who the boss is and the other really needs his space, especially when sleeping. I hope you are able to work through this.

 

Don't be afraid to post her for information or guidance. We are all here to help.

[greyhead]

Fabulous! (I'm guessing that training DD will also be key to success?) As others have said, continued good wishes!

[Guest june]

So glad to hear you are getting help from a trainer. Best of luck.

june