Apollo Is Hurting

[Guest bigorangedog]

Anyone have experience with chiropractic and their hounds?

 

If you read our last thread, you know that Apollo (our tripawd) has had some pain in his back end. His rads don't show any obvious bone lysis, but of course we always worry that it is just to soon to see it on the rads. At any rate, we are going with the muscle pain hypothesis at this point, and toward that end I took him to see the chiro/acupuncture vet yesterday.

 

This morning, he is HURTING. He is moving as badly as he was the week of his leg amputation. Can he be in this much pain from the adjustment? The chiro vet said he had some "major adjustments" from holding his front end torqued, in order to get his one front leg to land in the middle. But damn, he is sore.

 

She wants us to give Gabapentin, but I am thinking something stronger may be in order today. I have morphine, methocarbamol, pretty much any other pain meds you can think of. Also thinking he might should have some valium or ace to help him rest...

 

Waiting for a call back from either my regular vet or the chiro/acu vet. Neither is in yet today.

[JAJ2010]

I'm not sure there should be that much pain from an adjustment! If he's hurting I say PAIN MEDS to the rescue! I was thinking of trying to get Sunshine adjusted since I think she's out in her shoulders. Has no pain, just never has moved quite right. I've been putting it off though since I know she will not relax enough for the chiro to get a good adjustment.

[Guest Greytluv]

I do chiro and acupuncture on my dogs every month and they have never had any pain. My Piglet was such a mess that they started really light chiro. Now she's up to the normal. My acupuncturist could hardly get any needles in her. Now she does a lot better. I wish I could afford to take her more often. She charges $100 a secession.

[turbotaina]

When I had chiro done on Turbo, I was told that there might be *some* discomfort after the adjustment. He had his adjustments in the morning and was always fine later that same day.

[Guest Smiley]

We had Peanut to the chiropractor for 3 adjustments in March/April. At the time her x-rays had come back clean and we were treating her for a soft tissue injury. She would walk funny the day of the adjustment, but be fine by that evening. I didn't see any long-term discomfort after an adjustment. I hope Apollo feels better! Maybe accupuncture might be better for him???

[Guest Adrianne]

I don't have any experience; I just wanted to tell you that I'm thinking about that sweet boy and hoping he will feel better soon.

[MP_the4pack]

Actually, yes.

 

My Opal was really out of whack last week. We do regular adjustments every 2 months. The chiro did a lot of work to get her rear end back in line. That's when I noticed that one of her butt muscles (the piroformis) was atrophied. She was so out of whack that her muscle had atrophied!

Anyway, she's pretty sore now. It's been a week and she's slowly improving. But the chiro said she wanted xrays of her back and pelvis, so Opal's getting xrays thursday.

 

I've had my horse and dogs adjusted regularly since 1990. And on occasions when a lot of ajustments were needed, I did see quite a bit of discomfort afterwards. But only with big adjustments.

 

When my horse had a bad fall, he walked like a boxcar for several days after getting 'put back together'.

 

But otherwise the improvement in his movements was instant.

 

I hope Apollo get's past this and it's only because he was 'stuck'.

[tbhounds]

Sore maybe but still that painful I wouldn't think so. Are you sure he doesn't have an underlying back/disk problem?? Oh, I wanted to add that Gabapentin seems to be more effective when used in conjuction with a NSAID.

Edited July 20, 2010 by tbhounds

[Guest bigorangedog]

Talked to my vet and a friend who is a (human) massage therapist. Both think the soreness is from his adjustment, and that his alignment had been getting worse and worse for a long time so his muscles are now going: "What the #$&*#&$?"

 

We are doing 45 mg of morphine with 6 mg of ace every 8 hrs. Also got 50 mg of Gabapentin in the in-between. For most of the day he has been resting pretty well. Once I get him a little more comfortable, I'll try to massage his muscles in his back a bit.

 

The acu/chiro vet thought the rads of his back looked okay, and was certain that he doesn't have LS. Of course our biggest concern is bone mets that are not visible on the rads yet. But everyone seems to think it is entirely possible that his pain is due to his back being torqued. So, fingers crossed for that...

[Guest Paige12]

Sorry, no experience with canine chiro, when I get my back adjusted it usually is sore a few hours, but the pinching is gone immediately. Also a thought as you are giving him the pain meds, maybe think about a pepcid ac just to keep his stomach easy.

[Batmom]

The acu/chiro vet thought the rads of his back looked okay, and was certain that he doesn't have LS.

 

You can't rule out LS from an x-ray.

 

IMHO it is not a good thing to subject a dog to a procedure that causes that much pain and requires morphine, ace, or gabapentin afterwards -- let alone all three. I'd skip those procedures in future and find a wiser vet.

 

ETA: Of course it's possible that his pain has nothing to do with his adjustment. That is one reason that I would advocate full diagnostics, including MRI, before using chiropractic on a dog with suspected back pain. For example, if the dog has a ruptured disc -- which you also can't rule out from an x-ray -- you risk *increasing* damage with chiropractic procedures.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Batmom

[Guest greytloves]

Whoa, that sounds like a lot of meds. Bless his heart.

 

I have no personal experience but had a friend who took her grey to a Chiro and she did really well.

[TwiggysMom]

I don’t have experience with chiropractics for dogs, but I saw a chiropractor for some chronic back pain for a while. During one adjustment, I got immediate sharp, stabbing pains from something she did. She didn’t know what she did wrong, but the pain didn’t go away for weeks, even though she gave me some free acupuncture treatments to try to relieve it.

 

So, from my personal experience, I would say that Apollo definitely could be in a great deal of pain as a result of an adjustment.

 

Kisses for the pupper!

[krissn333]

I take my kids for chiropractic...on occasion if they're REALLY out of whack, they'll be a little bit sore, but usually it's helped by either massage or maybe some methocarbamol.

 

I hope sweet little Apollo is feeling better soon

[Guest bigorangedog]

 

You can't rule out LS from an x-ray.

 

IMHO it is not a good thing to subject a dog to a procedure that causes that much pain and requires morphine, ace, or gabapentin afterwards -- let alone all three. I'd skip those procedures in future and find a wiser vet.

 

ETA: Of course it's possible that his pain has nothing to do with his adjustment. That is one reason that I would advocate full diagnostics, including MRI, before using chiropractic on a dog with suspected back pain. For example, if the dog has a ruptured disc -- which you also can't rule out from an x-ray -- you risk *increasing* damage with chiropractic procedures.

 

She made the statement about the LS based on palpating him, and my regular "greyhound" vet doesn't think so either.

 

Clearly I wouldn't have "subjected" him to this if I thought it would cause him this much pain. We were trying to relieve his pain.

 

I asked my vet about a ruptured disc, and she said that he doesn't have the right symptoms for that -- his symptoms do not seem neurologic enough.

 

We've been through 3 vets on this so far. My regular vet (who has 3 greys and sees all of MNGR's hounds), the other vet at her practice (an orthopedic specialist), and this chiro/acu vet. The consensus seems to be muscle pain or else bone pain from an as-yet undetectable spine metastasis. (He needs to be sedated for x-rays because he panics if you lay him on his side on the table.)

 

We are doing our best to make him comfortable tonight, and just hoping he's feeling a little better in the morning.

[Batmom]

Oh gosh, I didn't think you would do it if you'd thought it would hurt! Just, I think chiropractic is very dicey for things of unknown origin ......

 

Hoping your home care and meds will have him feeling much better tomorrow.

[Sambuca]

I didn't read all the responses. If she thinks the gabapentin will work, it's worth a try. My dad recently died of cancer and had 1 tumor resting on his sciatic nerve. He tried all sorts of pain pills, including narcotics and none of the them worked. He tried gabapentin and had some relief. Plus, not as many personality changing side effects compared to narcotics.

 

I didn't read all the responses. If she thinks the gabapentin will work, it's worth a try. My dad recently died of cancer and had 1 tumor resting on his sciatic nerve. He tried all sorts of pain pills, including narcotics and none of the them worked. He tried gabapentin and had some relief. Plus, not as many personality changing side effects compared to narcotics.

[MP_the4pack]

Jen, you are doing everything you can for Apollo. If he was that out of whack, then in a short amount of time, he should bounce back. If it's mets, there is nothing you can do but make him comfortable.

 

I've had both this year. A dog really out of whack with an atrophied muscle. And a dog with bone mets. It sucks, but we do what we can do.

 

Give Apollo a kiss for me.

[Batmom]

How is he doing this morning?

[Burpdog]

They can be very sore, especially from the first adjustment or two, for several days. I've used tramadol if needed.

 

It works better to do the chiropractic and follow with acupuncture.

[Guest Smiley]

Hugs to Apollo and I hope he's doing much better today!

[Guest greytloves]

How is he today?

[Guest bigorangedog]

Hey y'all. Thanks for thinking of poor 'Pollo.

 

Long story short, he has been knocked on his a$$ all day.

 

Long story long...

 

He got up this AM and was still walking on jelly-legs, all off-kilter and unhappy. So, like a fool, I gave him his morning dose of morphine and ace because I didn't want him to be painful.

 

Then I called the chiro/acu vet, but she does not work Wednesdays. They gave me to another vet in the practice that I have never heard of before. That vet, in approximately a 30-second conversation, glanced at his file, told me that nothing Dr Mary had done should cause that much pain, and that if he is in that much pain we should consider euthanasia.

 

So, I start dialing my good vet (Dr Meg)'s home number at 8:30am on her day off, freaking out. I tell her what that vet said and she says, "WHAT????" Boy was she pissed. Went on and on about how never in her career has she said that to a client without actually seeing the dog, even if it's a dog she has known for 10 years.

 

Dr Meg told me that it certainly WAS possible, likely even, that the chiropractic had caused that much pain, especially in a tripod. Then she she told me that in her opinion what we saw that morning was actually mostly ataxia due to the morphine. Unfortunately, i had just given him MORE morphine a half hour earlier. He also had been panting some and even whining some (uncharacteristic for him), which I interpreted as pain. Meg heard him over the phone and told me that it sounded like a "classic dysphoric whine" from morphine, and was probably totally unrelated to pain.

 

So! We have been waiting out the morphine today. He has been lying on his bed totally gorked since this morning, as the tablets are 12-hr extended-release. I expect that around midnight or so he will pop up and we will see what we've got.

 

Basically, this blows. I feel like I have totally f-d up my dog. He walked into the chiro on Monday with a slight limp, but happy and able to jump into the van. Tuesday, boom, knocked on his butt. I have now been scared off of chiropractic (and possibly morphine) for life.

 

And that's our Wednesday story.

[mychip1]

How frustrating for you. You did everything with the best of intentions for our baby. As far as morphine, I had a horse who had to have it - and the vet warned me he may not feel well after. That was an understatement. He just hung his head for hours. Apparently, they get, as my vet referenced them, "morhpine headaches" which are extremely painful.

[greyhead]

What a defensive jerk that vet on the phone was! I'm so sorry! Glad you had a good, sane vet to talk to afterward.

 

Both our dogs get acupuncture and chiropractic. But I don't think all practitioners are equally skilled, and perhaps chiropractic isn't good for every dog. I'd be skittish too if I were you. And I doubt I'd ever go back to that practice!

 

Holding good thoughts for and Apollo tonight.