Muzzles In The House?

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

The backstory, since I have never properly introduced myself , I have four dogs as seen in my siggy. Jesse is the newest, and we've had him almost a year. He is the only boy, and the youngest, just turned 3 in May. Piper just turned 4 in May, and Tempe is 6 (7 in November) and Fancy 8 (9 in November). We've had Tempe and Piper two years. Fancy we have had since a puppy. It's a fairly new pack, and many adjustments have been made over the last two years. For instance, when we first brought Jess home, they started fighting over beds at night. So into the kennels the two young ones went, kennels placed in our room. That worked well, they also ate in their kennels, so we solved a lot of issues by using the crates. Tempe can not be crated since she has terrible SA, so she was free in the house muzzled. Fancy was not muzzled. I know Fanny like the back of my hand and know she would not attack another dog. She even lived with a seizure dog, and ran when he went into seizures. This situation went on for at least 8 months, with no problems.

 

I also had to do some training the yard, play got rough when we added the boy, so they all wear muzzles most of the time in the yard. Tempe will mis-direct (or re-direct) agression on to Fancy if the neighbor dog comes out. And I have taught them that no rough play is allowed. (Feet to yourself, etc)

 

One other note: Fancy and Piper got into a loud disagreement over a bowl of food. Somehow I left an uneaten bowl of food on the floor. When I came in, Piper was on top of Fancy. No blood, no injuries, and friends immediately after, but I was shocked and upset AND learned an important lesson about owning multipules. Totally my fault of course.

 

I mention all of these past events because about a month ago I retired the crates. We have had no snarking at night, no fighting in the yard, and feeding at separate "stations" has worked well. Everyone eats at the same place each night and everyone knows their place. I watch them like a hawk during dinner, since they've fought before, and all seems peaceful. I would never let them eat unattended again though of course. The problem is that Piper eats so slow! But we are doing okay in that department.

 

So my question, will I ever be able to let them loose in the house without muzzles? Right now I muzzle the hounds, and still leave Fancy with no muzzle. She is old and sleeps most of the day. She has Lymes, so she acts/feels older than she is. I'm really not worried about not muzzling Fancy but muzzling the others, I am very comfortable with that. But some day I'd like to not muzzle the hounds too. I have read the horror stories, but are there any success stories? Jess absolutely hates his muzzle, and I suspect he spends the entire day trying to get it off. I was just wondering if anyone has any stories or advice. For now the muzzles will stay on, I just keep picturing coming home and finding a blood bath. An alternative for Fancy would be to gate her onto the other side of the house, she is the one I'd worry about as they tend to push her around a bit, and Tempe already picks on her when she barks. Thoughts, stories, examples?

[seeh2o]

I have two greys, one with "controlled" SA and it is only controlled through routine and the wearing of muzzles. Carl needs a muzzle, Claire doesn't, they both wear them. Right now I have a, uh, - foster - he is a senior low-rider Chow mix with no aggression, he gets to stay in the house with the two greys, but he is too small for a muzzle. My other non-grey is kept in a separate part of the house and is not muzzled, but she can't get to the others.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

I have two greys, one with "controlled" SA and it is only controlled through routine and the wearing of muzzles.

 

That's going to be a big consideration for me too, I wonder what she'd do without a muzzle. She is a remote chewer, and has chewed the trim around a doorway where I used to gate her in. The gate was all part of the "figure out Tempe program" to keep her from pooping on the floor in the living room when we left...ah it's a lot to think about. I don't use the gate anymore...but I don't know if she'd pick another thing to chew up in frustration. I would not muzzle one hound and not the others...so that's out of the question. Thanks for reminding me of that "little problem" she's quite a stinker, that one!

[seeh2o]

I remember the first time I muzzled him, I felt terrible putting it on him, but I saw him physically relax when I slipped it on. That went a long way to tell me that I was doing the right thing. I didn't cut down on his vocalizations, but he was 100% not destructive after that.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

I remember the first time I muzzled him, I felt terrible putting it on him, but I saw him physically relax when I slipped it on. That went a long way to tell me that I was doing the right thing. I didn't cut down on his vocalizations, but he was 100% not destructive after that.

 

Yep she is much better with the muzzle! I guess I was thinking of making the boy happy...

[Guest Jubilee251]

I'm curious to know too! We just added a foster (with intent) boy to our family, making our dog pack two. I had a muzzle on him when he first came home, but neither seem to have any space/food issues so far. We unmuzzled him for the night and everything is fine. We definitely plan on muzzling both when we leave them alone, but they both seem to be such good dogs that we would love to have to not muzzle in the future.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

I wish some of the people who have big packs would answer...maybe they are afraid of starting trouble or getting yelled at

 

When I just had two, and was not on GT (a newbie) I did not muzzle them. They were two females who got along well. It was only when I added the boy that everything hit the fan!

 

ETA: our "food fight" happened after those two had been together for a year and a half!

Edited July 10, 2010 by 4dogscrazy

[kamsmom]

I have 4 greys and a lab that are "loose" in the house while gone. The lab and one grey are not muzzled. The one grey not muzzled is Isis, my older girl. She used to be muzzled all the time. I know that most will see this and say, if one is muzzled they all need to be but she has never once challenged anything and was a nursing home dog before I got her. She lived with cats, birds, other dogs and nursing home residents and never once challenged anything.

The lab has days of being x-penned because he is a chewer. But he is getting better about that. The main thing he chews? The greys muzzles right off of their heads He has helped them get rid of the muzzles a few times now so he gets x-penned during the day if we are gone. Steak and Carmen can NOT be trusted so they are always muzzled when no one is home. Madi is still muzzled but I don't think she needs to be but because she wrestles and plays with the others I worry that if they got worked up she could start something or get hurt so she is muzzled. Again, the only reason Isis isn't is that she has proven not to need it and also the fact that I would most often come home to find her without her muzzle and sleeping in my bed.

 

In the yard if I am out with them I will usually muzzle them all (but Isis and the lab, Blu) and then after the first burst of energy I will take the muzzles off. This is something I have recently started to do but it has taken me three years to get this comfortable with everyone. It is certainly not something I would do with a new dog or with a dog that I hadn't known for a while. Safety is always my top priority. There have been times that I felt the others were too excited and I only let Isis out by herself.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I have a small pack (4 at any given time) and I muzzle everyone when I am not home, as well as the yard. I simply don't understand not muzzling. The alternative of a vet visit is unacceptable.

 

Muzzling is in no way cruel, harmful or painful for a greyhound. They can eat, drink, sleep, even kill prey in a muzzle. Frankly I believe it is irresponsible for people to not muzzle their pack when unattended. Greyhounds above all other canines except for working huskies are closer to true "pack mentality" than any other domesticated dog. To assume that you know what your hounds will do is naive.

[Guest TeddysMom]

I do have a large pack, 5 greys, a visiting grey, and 20 other varies dogs. When I leave the large non greys are crated or safely seperated, the 5 pugs are loose, my two male greys are crated because they find lots of stuff to get into. Spice prefers my bedroom with a baby gate, Mandy is muzzled and loose, Blossom, my newest little gh girl is loose and muzzled. I, unfortunately, learned the hard way that muzzles are a necessity around here for any dog that is loose in the house or yard. Luckily I am home 95% of the time but the ghs have their muzzles on most of the time. They don't seem to mind and they seem calmer and less likely to even bother snarking. My greys are only out in the yard with a select few of the other dogs and only if I am out with them. I have a bunch of senior dogs and the ghs get a little rough in their playing sometimes so I have to be careful with my old kids too.

[moofie]

I don't muzzle my 2 dogs and leave them loose babygated into the kitchen while were out. The boys weren't muzzled while they lived together at their racing kennel either (its common in the UK for racers to be kennelled in pairs, not crated individually like US) they are littermates and get on well with just the odd grumble so i don't worry too much. I'd probably be more concerned initially adding another dog into the mix, until i knew how everyone gets on, so can totally understand muzzling to be on the safe side. It doesn't seem that unusual to leave them unmuzzled while out in England going by other owners i know, though most only have 2 or 3 hounds not large packs, perhaps its due to how they are kennelled here or maybe were just less safety conscious and treat them like other breeds i'm not sure.

 

I did wonder if you could crate Fancy with Jess loose to leave him unmuzzled and pop Tempre & piper together muzzled into another room as a sort of compromise so they all have some company, but as i've never crated i'm not sure if that's possible and would depend on how the girls get on too. I should probably leave the advice to those more experienced in multiple hounds.

Edited July 10, 2010 by moofie

[Guest cruzNhounds]

Even with the innocent of play things can go wrong. This is Birdie....$300.00 later. Muzzle's are FUNK regulators for sure.

[kronckew]

never muzzle my two except if i take them to the vet, they've never had anything beyond a short warning growl when one has accidentally stepped on the other. the only minor 'accidents' they've had were from other off-leash unmuzzled dogs. if mine had been muzzled they would not have been able to defend themselves at all. they've always lived with other dogs, and have now lived with each other for 6 years...but i know my dogs, you know yours, make a rational decision, in the end it comes down to the dogs. what is right for one may not be right for others.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

What has not been said, but you may or may not understand is that 2 hounds is not considered a pack. The dynamics of two hounds is a HUGE difference between 3 or more. When I only had two hounds, I never muzzled, but as soon as #3 came along, I had a pack and it is a totally different story.

 

Chad

[Guest greybookends]

I muzzle mine when I leave the house. Better safe than sorry.

[Guest mirthlesstroll]

I have 4 - 3 greys and 1 BMD x Aussie shep. The boys are muzzled for sure - 6 year old Jett has SA, and will tear up my house if I leave him alone for 2 seconds.

3 Y.O. Trent, is well, 3, and chews up stuff, including my kid's books, video games, and my leather ottoman!

Maisie the BMD doesn't really fit in a muzzle, and she's a good girl even though she has SA too.

Melody (11 1/2)gets muzzled most of the time b/c she's a b!tch princess, and gets snarky if she thinks someone is going to step on her.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

What has not been said, but you may or may not understand is that 2 hounds is not considered a pack. The dynamics of two hounds is a HUGE difference between 3 or more. When I only had two hounds, I never muzzled, but as soon as #3 came along, I had a pack and it is a totally different story.

 

Chad

 

Yep, that's what happened here. When I had two hounds, and Fancy, it was pretty peaceful. Add in the young boy, and the third hound, and whammo...everything changed. They get along fine now, but muzzling in the yard is a must, which I never did before. I will let them in the yard under supervision without muzzles, but it is usually really hot and no one is wound up. The do listen to me too. I am definately in charge here, and they are so sensitive that all it takes is a "knock it off" to get their attention. I will always use muzzles, for in the car, the vet, and the yard. I don't think they are cruel or anything, and everyone is okay with them but the spoiled boy! He rubs and rubs and has a mark on his face now since we've been muzzling when we leave. This happened before when I started using them in the yard too, I've even put moleskin on them to help. Seems like his face has toughened up, but he still hates it. The new mark is from the last month of muzzling in the house.

 

It is interesting to hear from other countries (thanks ) that things are different there. I know you are not as strict with leashes also, and it amazes me the difference. I've also thought about the fact that as puppies, they are all together and not muzzled! And I've seen some pens with BIG puppies and no muzzles! But as my DH pointed out this morning, we have not had any bites since we started using muzzles, and it has been a relief. No one ever had to be treated, but nips and small scratches were common in the beginning. It was common to find blood on my bed and as usual it went on and on bleeding. I got pretty good at fixing wounds...but I don't want to go back there. The muzzles have worked to level out the pack, it has been forever since anyone was hurt or in a fight. I will probably go on muzzling them, poor boy though...

[Guest KennelMom]

We muzzle most when we leave. A couple are crated in the kennel building b/c they can throw a muzzle and I don't trust them unmuzzled. I can control anything while I'm here...when I'm not, it's better safe than sorry.

[AnneGTS]

I've never muzzled my two (1 Greyhound and 1 Tibetan Terrier) . We always leave them loose so they can go to the the livingroom and kitchen. They run off-leash or in our backyard without a muzzle. Also when we had 3 dogs (2 Greys and 1 Tibetan Terrier), they were never muzzled.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I agree completely with Chad's posts. You never know how a dog is going to react. As much as you think you "know" your dog, it's still a dog, they communicate with their teeth. Better safe than sorry.

 

 

I've also thought about the fact that as puppies, they are all together and not muzzled! And I've seen some pens with BIG puppies and no muzzles!

Where do you think most of those scars come from?

 

 

But as my DH pointed out this morning, we have not had any bites since we started using muzzles, and it has been a relief. No one ever had to be treated, but nips and small scratches were common in the beginning. It was common to find blood on my bed and as usual it went on and on bleeding. I got pretty good at fixing wounds...but I don't want to go back there. The muzzles have worked to level out the pack, it has been forever since anyone was hurt or in a fight.

Coming home to blood was a regular occurrence? Why would you even consider NOT muzzling then? I don't mean to sound snarky or rude, but you shouldn't be having wounds or injuries like that, not when they can be prevented.

 

 

I will probably go on muzzling them, poor boy though...

Many people get concerned that wearing a muzzle is uncomfortable for their hound(s). Well think of it this way, having an injury, especially one that requires stitches or staples, will be far MORE uncomfortable and painful for them than wearing a muzzle EVER would. If you can prevent that from happening, spare them from that pain and discomfort, then you're doing something right.

 

 

 

 

 

For anyone that doesn't muzzle routinely in the yard, please read this thread: Let Me Show You Why They Give Us Those Muzzles

 

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

 

 

 

P.S. - On the discussion of larger packs.... Mine is not as large as some here, but I have my own 6 dogs, 1 perma-foster (Sophie), and this week 3 boarders (2 Greys and a small dog). We muzzle and crate as needed.

 

[Batmom]

Always muzzled or separated when we aren't here. Always muzzled when in the yard together. Joseph is very possessive of prey (and humans at the fenceline); he can detect and react to those things before I can. The dogs have plenty of opportunity to play, sunbathe, etc. individually without their muzzles on. .... I don't muzzle at night although I do encourage Gidget to sleep in her own bed. She likes to creep in with Joseph and then bark at him if he accidentally pokes her or starts making a nest later. That's as far as it goes but it does interfere with a person's sleep.

[TheFullHouse]

I have a large pack. I have 6 that are crated when we leave, 4 are left uncrated and muzzled and Jilly Bean is separated from the group by a baby gate when we leave. All of mine are muzzled when they go outside to play but in the house during the day when I'm home, no one is muzzled.

 

Most fights between dogs happen over food, toys, or one of the dogs getting mad and taking rough play personally. Even when we just had Emmy and Jilly Bean, Emmy was crated when we left. Both girls had strong personalities and would argue over toys or whatever. When we added Andy, Emmy and Andy were crated when we left the house.

 

It all depends on the personalities of the dogs in question. You can have two very confident dogs that get along great but the minute no one is around and one see's something the other wanted, you've got a fight on your hands. The worst fight I had was years ago between brothers Valentino and Arrow, in the yard, by themselves! One wanted to play, the other didn't and it was on and I had to break it up. Luckily they were both muzzled or I guarantee you I would have had them both at the vet. Personally, and this is just for me, even if I had two dogs, I would muzzle whenever leaving the house. IF something happened and the two had words, and someone was very seriously hurt and there was no one there to help them and something happened to either, I would never forgive myself, but that's just me. I always keep in the back of my head that even as wonderful as they are, greyhounds are DOGS, and dogs will fight given the right circumstances, whether it be 2 or 32.

[Guest cruzNhounds]

What has not been said, but you may or may not understand is that 2 hounds is not considered a pack. The dynamics of two hounds is a HUGE difference between 3 or more. When I only had two hounds, I never muzzled, but as soon as #3 came along, I had a pack and it is a totally different story.

 

Chad

 

Spot on Chad

 

Bird got hers when dog #3 (Brummy) came along. When dog #4 my big boy Dusty ( ) came along it was a whole different story for sure!

Edited July 10, 2010 by cruzNhounds

[Guest PhillyPups]

My pack consists of 5 greyhounds. I am a single working person. I work out of my home. I do muzzle when gone, just like putting on my seatbelt when I get in a vehicle. I do not plan on a dogfight as my pack is well adjusted and fairly laid back, but I would rather they be safe than sorry. When I put the muzzles over my arm (they are usually sleeping after morning play, breakfast and turnouts) I go to each one, say their name, they lift their head up, I pop on their muzzle and they go back to sleep.

 

Muzzles are a safety tool. I have been fortunate in all the years I have had greyhounds, only one er vet visit for an injury and that was due to a broken branch on a tree during a windstorm, so I will continue to muzzle.

 

When I bring a new hound into the home, I also muzzle at night when sleeping. Once I have a full week of no snarky words at night the muzzles come off. DonJuan was very snarky when he joined us. He was 11-1/2 and recovering from a cotton mouth snake bite - he knew he was the weak one, new to an established pack. He was being defensive. I understood his thinking, not "bad" behavior, just learning to trust the pack, so they were all muzzled at night. I do not have to do that anymore.

 

I would rather muzzle than stitch. Mine also are muzzled if traveling in the van with more than one.

 

I was taught two is a pair, three or more a pack. My Runner and SugarBear had a magical connection between them and were unmuzzled.

[greysmom]

I am in the minority here, and I know most won't agree with how we do it.

 

I have four and I never muzzle them when we leave the house. I've never had a problem doing that. All four are loose in the house with the cats as well. It's completely dog-proofed and we baby-gate/close doors to rooms I don't want them in.

 

I have had issues out in the yard with playing that has gotten out of hand, so I do muzzle outside.