Lumpy Bumpy Hound

[Guest ChasesMum]

Chase is covered in lumps, the size of peas approximatley. it started sometime Thursday maybe? regardless, thursday night I gave her 2 reactine. friday morning was normal, and at first when i got home Friday afternoon she played with the kids and seemed fine, though there were more lumps. So I called the vet and booked her in for the next morning. Then at suppertime she was yelping and shying her head away from my hand, and oe eye seemed a little bug-eyed. so i took her to the emerg vet and he thought she was having a systemic allergic reaction. He noted that her pupils were dilated and only weakly responsing to light. he gave her a shot of Dexamethasone and we rechecked with our vet the next day (Saturday morning) and she was sent home on prednisone. things were better, the yelping was gone and her eyes seemed to react fine to our vet.

 

Last night she was laying on our bed and yelped, got up and ran to the bathroom, then came back to me and yelped again, layed on her bed, and the muscles in her head (over her skull) were in spasm and she kept clicking her jaw shut. Then it went away..... it lassted 15-30 seconds maybe?

 

I called the clinic today and she will call me back around noon when the other vet comes in (the one who has seen Chase most) and see what else we can think of. Currently the "hives" have only sort of responded to the pred - maybe reduced in size by half if I was feeling generous. But some have seemed to get bigger, and I don't think any have gone away. i am thinking that these are not hives, and I am praying and hoping that they are something that is not cancer. Her eyes seem light sensitive though her pupils are not dilated today, and she sometimes shyes away from your hand though no yelping. Her right eye still doesnt seem right. the whites of her eyes are bloodshot and irritated, she had a burst blood vessel in each eye on friday at the emerg vet - he figured it was all part of the allergic reaction

 

i did some post searching and couldnt fine a whole lot though I did leave a post on another thread for more info.

 

Any ideas?? ANy other thoughts or things we can try?? i am in Alberta and there are no ticks in the area we are in, could a TBD turn up 7+ years after leaving the states? could she have gotten stung by a wasp or something maybe? Could she have gotten a bug in her eye or ear that could cause this? brain tumor? hemorrage? aneurysm?

 

my poor baby girl.........

[Guest TeddysMom]

It really does sound like a severe allergic reaction or poisonning from something, maybe a spider or bug bite or something that is blooming right now. I hope the vet can find the answer. I will keep Chase in my prayers.

[grey14me]

Wow, I have never heard of anything like that...poor thing Sending tons of prayers that you find an answer quickly :hope

[Guest Energy11]

Sounds like a severe allergic reaction to me.

 

I'd start Benedryl 50 mg, every four to six hours, if it were one of mine. Both Oakly and Staggerlee had similar symptoms a few years ago, and it was a bad allergic reaction to fire ants. (*lots of them in Florida).

 

I would CHECK with your vet before starting the Benedryl, but it very well might be the ticket, and you'd have to keep he on it for a few days. That is what I did, anyway.

 

Hoping she feels better soon!

[Guest krystolla]

One of my mom's dogs has had repeated allergic reactions to ants -- though nothing as awful as what you've described. Poor puppy.

 

If it's a contact allergy, from a weed or pollen, maybe a bath would help?

[greyhoundgang]

Think back to when the lumpy bumps first appeared. what was she running through, or lying on. new carpet, cleaned carpet, new couch, a certain type of grass, something sprayed in the yard - think about what might have caused it. there is a reason. find the source and get rid of what is causing it.

 

I'd bath her in something very soothing - a natural shampoo. I'd stop the prednisone. that can be exacerbating or masking. I'd find a second opinion, with a holistic vet - they have a lot of tools in their arsenal to help with allergies.

[Batmom]

Really does sound like an allergic reaction. Bath is a good idea but I would keep up the prednisone if it has helped.

[Guest ChasesMum]

saw the vet again today, chase's right eyeball looks swollen... she did a pressure test, left eye was 14 right eye was 19. so she is seeing the opthamologist tomorrow hopefully, and we have an internal medicine specialist in the arsenal if needed as well.

 

we can't think of ANYTHING she got into, or rolled in, or ate. nothing changed., nothing was cleaned, nothing was sprayed (unless something blew through the fence?). we have been in this house almost 3 years and we have had chase for 7 years. its puzzled us all!!

 

i forgot to ask about the reactine... the emerg vet had said that benedryl is fine but reactine is a better antihistamine.

[duncan41]

No experience with any of my hounds, but having more allergies than you can shake a stick at, I would re-examine all possibilities. Yes, something sprayed in a neighboring yard could have caused the problem. Do you take Chase for walks? Have you been to any events, M&Gs, Vet's office (immediately preceding the outbreak)? Changed washing detergents? Cleaning agents in the house? Any changes in her water? Food? Treats? Toys? Bedding? Food bowls? Shampoo? Flea treatment? Doing any remodeling in or outside of your home? Paint? Wallpaper? Trees, shrubs, flowers, ground cover? What I'm getting at is examining EVERYTHING as if she had been kept in a theoretical sterile bubble. I know this is a repeat of Claudia's suggestions..................................

 

I pray that you get some answers soon!

[PatricksMom]

In humans, sometimes a combination of things can trigger allergy attacks even if exposure to them seperately hasn't. Maybe that's what's going on? It certainly sounds like allergies to me.

[Guest ChasesMum]

hmmm ok so chase saw the opthamologist today - the most critical issue being her swollen sensitive eyes. He felt that her (extra? intra?) occular muscles were hugely inflamed due to a massive immune response going on in her body. He couldnt push her eyeball back into her socket at all on the right, however usually when that goes on they put up a fuss and yelp when you open their jaw and usually they arent eating well. neither of those things were happeneing with Chase. of course...becasue that would make it easier!

 

he ran a pile of labs - they came back largely unremarkable except for a higher urea and a lower platelet count. He is getting her labs from 6 mos ago to compare. He added on an Erlichia/tick panel just to rule it out, even though she has been out of Alabama since 2003, and a creatinine ratio as they did see some protein in the u/a.

 

And he is consulting with our vet... and with the internal medicine doc to see if she wants in on the action

 

I think the bill is at $650 and climbing, and we havent gotten very far. ah well. its only money....

[Patsy]

Hugs to you both and best wishes for some enlightenment.

[Guest ChasesMum]

No experience with any of my hounds, but having more allergies than you can shake a stick at, I would re-examine all possibilities. Yes, something sprayed in a neighboring yard could have caused the problem. Do you take Chase for walks? Have you been to any events, M&Gs, Vet's office (immediately preceding the outbreak)? Changed washing detergents? Cleaning agents in the house? Any changes in her water? Food? Treats? Toys? Bedding? Food bowls? Shampoo? Flea treatment? Doing any remodeling in or outside of your home? Paint? Wallpaper? Trees, shrubs, flowers, ground cover? What I'm getting at is examining EVERYTHING as if she had been kept in a theoretical sterile bubble. I know this is a repeat of Claudia's suggestions..................................

 

I pray that you get some answers soon!

 

we couldnt think of anything... there was a small bedding shift but not immediatley before this, nothing new that is truly new - she would have been aound it before at some point, but even at that there is nothing that stood out. The only thing even remotley new was that she had been at another greyhound owner's house being babysat for the 4-7 of June but that was 3 weeks before.

 

Think back to when the lumpy bumps first appeared. what was she running through, or lying on. new carpet, cleaned carpet, new couch, a certain type of grass, something sprayed in the yard - think about what might have caused it. there is a reason. find the source and get rid of what is causing it.

 

I'd bath her in something very soothing - a natural shampoo. I'd stop the prednisone. that can be exacerbating or masking. I'd find a second opinion, with a holistic vet - they have a lot of tools in their arsenal to help with allergies.

 

I wanted to stop the pred, asked the vet about it today and got a resounding NO! he wants her on 25mg BID still. For how long, i don't know... I don't think she is liking being on it...she was panting a lot last night, and drank 3 bowls of water from 8pm to 8am. So there was midnight potty trips to be enjoyed by all.

 

A bath is a good idea (unless it bothers her eyes?) ... i am a sahm with 3 kids so I need a hand to watch kids while I bath her - I will suggest maybe hubby can do that tonight!

 

It really does sound like a severe allergic reaction or poisonning from something, maybe a spider or bug bite or something that is blooming right now. I hope the vet can find the answer. I will keep Chase in my prayers.

 

i asked about bug bites, they didnt think so, though maybe the tune is changing now? but we don't have ants in the yard, and a spider is a possibility. anything blooming she would have been exposed to for years now so I don't think that would be it. i asked about something in her eye, again they didnt think so...

[HopeForHounds]

Ugh I hate cases like this.

 

It may not be anything new, an allergy can just crop up. I have a few mild allergies, but if I end up overloaded high pollen count, and have milk BAM! My eyes swell up, I get an itchy face - not pretty! My milk allergy is fairly recent.

 

The fact that she hasn't been where there are ticks for a number of years doesn't really mean anything. Jake has been in Ottawa since he was 3, he is 11 now and we have been battling TBD for a while now. We had negative tests, but our vet is pretty sure he has an obscure one. The problem with tick tests is you have to know exactly which one you are testing for and there are hundreds. We saved the test money and have him on doxycyclin for 8 weeks.

 

I'd be careful of a bath as it may stress her and make things worse. Just had a thought, while nothing new was added to her environment, was she in any way stressed. It doesn't have to have been a lot. Jake's last flare up of TBD was after a Meet & Greet, which he loved. He just got over tired and then had a spill.

 

If I were you I would have your vets contact OSU to see what they think. Is your vet on the OSU vet list serve? If so, they can ask other vets on the list if they have seen anything like this.

 

To contact OSU:

 

This email is for the Greyhound Health and Wellness Program and will be answered by the vet who is on duty greyosu@osu.edu

 

This is Dr. Couto's email. He is usually very quick at responding but you should be aware that he travels a lot and sometimes can't get to his email. couto.1@osu.edu

 

The phone numbers for the GHWP are: (614) 247-6757 and (614) 247-8490

 

They sometimes get very busy. If the situation is critical send an email but follow-up with a phone call and/or a phone call from your vet.

[Guest PhillyPups]

It was my post on my beloved Zeus, whom I lost April 15 to hemangiocarcenoma. The lumps were larger than what you describe and it took him so fast, it is still too painful to talk about.

Edited July 2, 2010 by PhillyPups

[Guest SusanP]

Prednisone can cause those muscle spasms in the head/jaw. We went through it with our Wizard a few months ago. It's a useful drug but can also have serious side-effects.

 

You might give Pepcid along with the Prednisone to minimize GI tract issues. It can also affect the liver. Wizard had problems with all of this after about 3 weeks on Prednisone. That said, if the drug is working, the side-effects may be worth it.

 

I hope things get back to normal for your baby ASAP.

 

Edited July 1, 2010 by SusanP

[Guest ChasesMum]

Hmmmm... well the muscle spasms also include her sticking her tongue out and then pulling it in and clicking her jaw shut, and yelping. poor thing. i tried to see if it was related to the prednisone in some way, it seems to happen in the evening a couple hours before her second dose.

 

Maybe I'll hear from the vets again today.

[Guest SusanP]

Wizard's spasms were the same. They didn't occur at any special time in connection with taking the pills, but once we weaned him off the prednisone, the spells stopped, and our vet agreed that the prednisone was causing them.

[Guest kydie]

sending healing white light from western Pa, please keep us posted, when a human has a reaction to something, they can have seizures, the head thing sounds like small seizures, related to what every is going on systemicaly, TBD or othewise

[Guest greyhound1]

Sending prayers!

[kudzu]

Hopefully your girl will improve quickly and that eye pressure will go down rapidly. As someone who has experienced many allergic reactions, including rashes, muscle pain, eye pain, even anaphalaxis, what you are describing sure does sound like a severe allergic reaction. As already pointed out, other stressors prior to the reaction could have contributed. It seems these can put a system into hypersensitive mode. At that point, something that normally isn't a problem can flip a switch and *blip* all heck breaks loose. That same item may not be the actual root problem & may not cause trouble if reintroduced later. However, *if* her system is very sensitive right now & *if* that last trigger is still around then the continued exposure might keep the reaction going. (A lot of if's, I know.) My father, a sister & I have all had situations like this. Treatment & removal of that last trigger cuts the reaction. After things have settled down, it may never cause a problem again. Our immune system is a strange & magical thing, so hard to predict with a seemingly infinite number of variables.

 

So my mind is swirling around the if's:

- As others have written, I would still be suspicious of TBDs.

- Am wondering what that "small bedding shift" was? Any cedar, pine, down, etc. involved? That could do it, especially cedar.

- Anything go with her to Grey sitting, but that you didn't give to her right away? (This one seems like a very remote possibility.)

 

 

It was my post on my beloved Zeus, whom I lost April 15 to hemangiocarcenoma. The lumps were larger than what you describe and it took him so fast, it is still too painful to talk about.

OMG! First, I am not saying at all that I think this is part of your girl's problem so please don't get scared. But PhillyPups post is only the second time I have heard of a paraneoplastic syndrome related to hemangiosarcoma so I had to comment. The first time I'd heard of that was this week when my friend's dog who had been having something that appeared to be a severe allergic or similar immune reaction, turned out to have not only hemangiosarcome but also a peritoneal cancer. The outward reaction was paraneoplastic syndrome. So sad for both of these dogs. So sorry.

 

But that isn't going to be the case for Ms. LumpyBumpy. Chase is just reacting to cedar or peanut butter or someone's new colgne or a different shade of lipstick that got on her during a loving & her body decided the color was a poor match & so is rejecting it.

[Guest ChasesMum]

no worries, we did a cytology to see what they contained.

 

OMFG she tested positive for Ehrlichia!!! from the research I did online it seems like she is in the chronic phase. So now what?? She sees the vet tomorrow morning...sounds like prognosis isnt wonderful. what am I looking at??

 

i am also supposed to get the 'episodes" (which are increasing in frequency btw) on video to show him.

[greyhoundgang]

You didn't post the titer, or say whether she had other tick borne diseases like Babesia. It's important to know. There's info available - not a death sentence, unless caught too late. doxycycline for months. take her off the prednisone, that is totally wrong. must be weaned off of it though. However, I've never heard of lumps from tick diseases, so you may have more than one thing going on.

 

Protatek is the best place to get blood work done. They do all 4 tick disease tests for around $60 i believe. and haved worked with greyhound lovers for a long time.

 

Greyhound Gang - LEARN - medical - Tick Diseases Plus search the internet for even more information.

 

She'll be fine with the proper care, but I'd continue to look for whatever is causing her allergic reactions too.

[Guest ChasesMum]

thanks...

 

I don't know the titer, and I don't know if they tested for everything. I asked the vet about doing a full tick panel and he said they were, they did the SNAP test and PCR.

 

jeez I feel uninformed! lol

 

she is off the pred but she seems to be worse today. aargh.

Edited July 13, 2010 by ChasesMum

[Batmom]

If they got the Ehrlichia positive from Snap + PCR, it isn't a titer, it's "she has Ehrlichia organisms in her system." Some of the labs such as IDEXX and Antech are now offering rapid, thorough PCR panels which test for more organisms than the common titer-based panels. I feel that the PCR technology is more useful than titer testing. YMMV. But, it sounds like you have identified a problem and are treating it properly .

 

ETA: I don't know which lab or test type your vet used, but here is some info about IDEXX's PCR panels: http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresources/pdf/en_us/smallanimal/reference-laboratories/diagnostic-updates/vector-borne-disease-panels.pdf