Move It Or Lose It!

[Guest earlkattangrey]

We have routines/places where they know to give me space, i.e. at feeding time they have to stand behind the line of kitchen tile, and when I'm leaving whether they're coming or not, they know they have to stand at certain place. And if I'm working in the kitchen I can send them out and they will be good. But I would love to somehow train Kattan to not just stand there in the doorway between rooms when I am trying to get through, and then pretty much require me to plow through him (gently of course) to get by - that sort of thing. For my own sake it's no huge deal but I don't want anyone breaking any hips when my parents come over or I go there.

 

I've never had a dog that didn't move out of the way naturally, and still not move even when they know you are trying to get by..it seems to be a greyhound thing. Part of their sloth-likeness maybe (or maybe I should say Kattan's slothlikeness). Is this possible?

[Guest Fluffy]

I've had some success with "move" and a gentle knee bump (not like an "I'm kicking you" bump, but more an "oh hey look you got in the way of my leg" bump). I started doing that with Badger on walks and in doorways, and after a few days of bumping he seemed to get the message that it was easier to just stay clear of my legs in the first place.

[Guest krystolla]

Well, I eventually trained my cats to get out of the way when necessary. Command word is "Skootch", don't know how that happened. Hack hasn't picked it up yet, he figures if I'm coming towards him it's for cuddling purposes.

[Guest earlkattangrey]

he figures if I'm coming towards him it's for cuddling purposes.

 

Yes THIS!! (Ok, full disclosure, it often is )

[FiveRoooooers]

"Excuse me" works very well here.

[Guest earlkattangrey]

I suppose the question is how did you teach your dogs English?

[seeh2o]

I use "excuse me" and "move please". They eventually get it, but only when they find it convenient. I don't think I've ever had a dog that gets in my way more than Carl, I've nearly taken us both down on many occasions. His sister, Claire, is right behind him. Maybe it runs in the family?

[FiveRoooooers]

I suppose the question is how did you teach your dogs English?

 

For real? I'll bet they learned "cookie" and "go for a ride" and "outside?" pretty easily. Why not "excuse me?" Mine will move when friends say it, too You could use French or Spanish, if you prefer

[Sambuca]

Whenever he's in the doorway and you bump into him to get by, say "move"*, he will get it pretty quickly.

 

*Use any word that works for you.

[Guest tinams8]

I also make sure not to look at the dog because I think she assumes I am walking towards her, not past her. So try to look busy, look up, use a certain word, (I say "watch out!" but she has figured out many others also) and gently walk into him.

[GeorgeofNE]

I'm laughing over this--

 

My last dog was a mix, and I swear, all I had to do was THINK "out of my way" and he moved.

 

George doesn't. There's nothing in it for HIM to get out of my way. Like a 64 pound cat. He has no desire to please me. He's a working dog who did his job and did it well, and now he's finished, and it's my job to get out of HIS way!

 

 

We have discussion about this...

 

Now a NORMAL dog would respond to "move please" and a toe tap or something, and eventually learn. George??? Not gonna happen! He won't even move for the vacuum!

[Guest earlkattangrey]

I suppose the question is how did you teach your dogs English?

 

For real? I'll bet they learned "cookie" and "go for a ride" and "outside?" pretty easily. Why not "excuse me?" Mine will move when friends say it, too You could use French or Spanish, if you prefer

Yeah I get that - I was asking how you get them to associate "excuse me" with physically moving out of the way on their own volition. The above three examples you gave are all things that are positive and rewarding for the dog by their very nature, things the dog already wants.

 

I could start by picking a term and luring him out of the way with a treat, or treating him after using the term and nudging him out of the way, but Kattan is so food driven that if he smells a treat on me anywhere he loses all focus. That's why I was looking for some tips from others here.

 

I also make sure not to look at the dog because I think she assumes I am walking towards her, not past her. So try to look busy, look up, use a certain word, (I say "watch out!" but she has figured out many others also) and gently walk into him.

 

That's a good idea - not looking at him, as I'm sure I probably am. That would be something different I could try. I've already tried the obvious "move" - *push* but he couldn't care less!

 

I'm laughing over this--

 

My last dog was a mix, and I swear, all I had to do was THINK "out of my way" and he moved.

 

George doesn't. There's nothing in it for HIM to get out of my way. Like a 64 pound cat. He has no desire to please me. He's a working dog who did his job and did it well, and now he's finished, and it's my job to get out of HIS way!

 

 

We have discussion about this...

 

Now a NORMAL dog would respond to "move please" and a toe tap or something, and eventually learn. George??? Not gonna happen! He won't even move for the vacuum!

 

I think George and Kattan might be related

Edited April 27, 2010 by earlkattangrey

[FiveRoooooers]

George Kattan

 

Definitely don't look at him while you're approaching, that is good advice. Bumping into him at the exact time that you say The Word/Phrase is key. Eventually (quickly) he will associate the bump with getting out of your way. If he is insanely food driven, you could bump/say it/toss a treat behind him (in front of you) until he figures it out.

 

Something that has helped, not just with my own dogs but with those for whom I sit, is to expect that I'm going to get the good behavior that I want. If I'm already thinking the negative, that's usually what we get. But if I set it up for the dog not to fail, everybody wins! Then mark the good behavior with "Yessss" or "Good" or something positive.

[Guest earlkattangrey]

George Kattan

 

Definitely don't look at him while you're approaching, that is good advice. Bumping into him at the exact time that you say The Word/Phrase is key. Eventually (quickly) he will associate the bump with getting out of your way. If he is insanely food driven, you could bump/say it/toss a treat behind him (in front of you) until he figures it out.

 

Something that has helped, not just with my own dogs but with those for whom I sit, is to expect that I'm going to get the good behavior that I want. If I'm already thinking the negative, that's usually what we get. But if I set it up for the dog not to fail, everybody wins! Then mark the good behavior with "Yessss" or "Good" or something positive.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. One of the most congested intersections in my house is conveniently an arm's reach from the kitchen counter, where I could stash treats to toss to him and thereby get around not being able to have a treat on me.

 

I also agree about positive thinking. One of the most helpful things I did when I used to show horses was to envision that perfect round just before going in. Seeing the positive outcome played a big part in it becoming reality, by both focusing on what I needed to do to get it done, AND by the power of that positive thinking.

[ivon]

That's funny, I always used to think it's a Spud thing, but at GIG I realized it IS a Grey thing, "move" works well for us, but pick any word and he will get it. Spud must think "move" is his middle name....it's not just doorways, if I need to open the fridge, he will be in front of it, same with the oven, cabinets, etc.

[FiveRoooooers]

That's funny, I always used to think it's a Spud thing, but at GIG I realized it IS a Grey thing, "move" works well for us, but pick any word and he will get it. Spud must think "move" is his middle name....it's not just doorways, if I need to open the fridge, he will be in front of it, same with the oven, cabinets, etc.

What is that saying ... ? "My middle name is NO NO BAD DOG, what's yours"

 

George Kattan

 

Definitely don't look at him while you're approaching, that is good advice. Bumping into him at the exact time that you say The Word/Phrase is key. Eventually (quickly) he will associate the bump with getting out of your way. If he is insanely food driven, you could bump/say it/toss a treat behind him (in front of you) until he figures it out.

 

Something that has helped, not just with my own dogs but with those for whom I sit, is to expect that I'm going to get the good behavior that I want. If I'm already thinking the negative, that's usually what we get. But if I set it up for the dog not to fail, everybody wins! Then mark the good behavior with "Yessss" or "Good" or something positive.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. One of the most congested intersections in my house is conveniently an arm's reach from the kitchen counter, where I could stash treats to toss to him and thereby get around not being able to have a treat on me.

 

I also agree about positive thinking. One of the most helpful things I did when I used to show horses was to envision that perfect round just before going in. Seeing the positive outcome played a big part in it becoming reality, by both focusing on what I needed to do to get it done, AND by the power of that positive thinking.

Have fun with it, too!

 

(small hijack: What kind of horses and where? Did we show in the same pen?)

[Guest iconsmum]

say "back up"* along with any hand signal you like and toss a really good meat treat farther away than he is to you -until he gets used to moving away from you to go get a reward.

After a hundred of those, (not kidding), teach him separately what a clicker means (another hundred)

when he knows thoroughly what a clicker means, say "back up"* with the hand signal, wait till he even looks away from you, click and toss the treat way behind him again.

It's repitition that will condition him to move away from you when he hears the phrase - just be thankful he's food motivated. If he wasn't food motivated, or if you wanted to get your point across a bit faster, you might train it right before each meal, or you might skip a meal and work with him when he's hungry...what you need to remember is that you're conditioning him to move away when he hears your phrase -more like a reflex than anything else but it's not quick for every dog, just reliable.

You might also read "When Pigs Fly" hth

**anything you like )

[Guest earlkattangrey]

 

 

(small hijack: What kind of horses and where? Did we show in the same pen?)

 

Ah this is ancient history I rode hunters in northern IN when I was a teen, circa 1988-90. I'm still involved with horses (off track Thoroughbreds) but don't get to ride much. You?

[Guest earlkattangrey]

say "back up"* along with any hand signal you like and toss a really good meat treat farther away than he is to you -until he gets used to moving away from you to go get a reward.

After a hundred of those, (not kidding), teach him separately what a clicker means (another hundred)

when he knows thoroughly what a clicker means, say "back up"* with the hand signal, wait till he even looks away from you, click and toss the treat way behind him again.

It's repitition that will condition him to move away from you when he hears the phrase - just be thankful he's food motivated. If he wasn't food motivated, or if you wanted to get your point across a bit faster, you might train it right before each meal, or you might skip a meal and work with him when he's hungry...what you need to remember is that you're conditioning him to move away when he hears your phrase -more like a reflex than anything else but it's not quick for every dog, just reliable.

You might also read "When Pigs Fly" hth

**anything you like )

 

I've had three clicker sessions with Kattan already. Meeve is clicker trained, it was a breeze. When I first got him I was so happy to hear he was food motivated. But in his case it's seemingly too much of a good thing. If we are working with treats, or if he knows I have a treat anywhere on me, he just flips out, is manic, loses ALL focus, manners, etc. i have managed to teach him to stay and come using treats, but it was a real chore. My best hope for using treats is to "surprise attack" him with them if I can, but it only works once because then he is freaking out thinking I must have more if I continue to try and engage him. I shudder to think how he would act if I tried this BEFORE a meal on top of it. He's a really bad bolter, too. (I use an anti-bolt bowl and water to slow him.)

[Guest iconsmum]

omg that's hilarious - don't read When Pigs Fly - he doesn't need it...you're right - one treat at a time for one 'back-up' is going to work fine as long as you surprise him - (you may want to wear armour to keep him from being all over you I'd love, love to meet him...

to your advantage is that you have clicker trained him and he has already learned a couple of things - I wouldn't reduce the value of the treat because we're keeping him motivated still to move along when he's asked. when he bounces at you and ramps up, walk away to somewhere in your house where there's a door and close it loudly behind you...wait a full minute and walk back out...one false move out of him (and he will) and you walk back into the other room and shut the door loudly enough to let him know he's being ostracized - another 60 seconds. I really sympathize, and it's going to take a lot of repitition but he's clearly smart...it's a sort of doggy zen - if he wants the next treat, he's going to have to force himself to stay calm-(ish) and control his impulse to mug you...it's like teaching the door-buster dog not to rush out the front door - one dog-move into the open crack earns a closed door - the way to get it to open is self-control -the walk in that case is the motivator...you wind up not having to say a word- it's the dog who has to do all the thinking lol the principle is that anything he figures out for himself sticks with him forever as part of his personal repertoire - keep us posted...no pun intended )

 

and edited because of a sticky keyboard

Edited April 27, 2010 by iconsmum

[Guest sheila]

I don't say much of anything to dogs standing in my way. I just keep on walking and if dogs get stepped on or bumped than that is their fault. If I say anything at all it is MOVE!

[RobinM]

In my house, it's excuse me, pardon me, ''cuse me, pardon me, coming though... 5 in the way, all the time!

[FiveRoooooers]

(small hijack: What kind of horses and where? Did we show in the same pen?)

 

Ah this is ancient history I rode hunters in northern IN when I was a teen, circa 1988-90. I'm still involved with horses (off track Thoroughbreds) but don't get to ride much. You?

Quarter horses, reiners and trail. No riding now either, when I couldn't keep the horse in the back yard I found the perfect home for him (10 yrs ago) Still do a bit of massage on some now and then, keeps me in the barns. (hijack over)