What's Wrong With Gracie's Nose?

[macoduck]

On the center lower portion of Gracie's nose she's had a loss of pigment. This has been so very gradual that we didn't think much of it.

Today I see some ulceration that was not there yesterday. What was before just a flesh-color flat area now has become raised.

Gracie is 9, in good health, her breath is stinky (even though she had a dental within the past year).

This not a sore caused by a muzzle.

There is no discharge, sneezing or reverse sneezing.

She has a normal appetite.

Lupus, cancer or something else?

I'll be making a vet appointment but am hoping someone here has seen this before.

Editing to add: the first picture almost looked like the inside of her nose was bloody but I just checked with a flashlight and it wasn't bloody inside.

Edited April 8, 2010 by macoduck

[TheFullHouse]

Ouch, that looks sore. I haven't a clue but am sending good thoughts your way.

[macoduck]

Soonest vet appointment is Friday. At least she's not licking or rubbing it.

[PatricksMom]

I found this info here: http://www.vetinfo.com/ddepigmt.html I can't vouch for the site, but to summarize what the vet says, most of the time it is normal and they're not entirely sure why it happens. It can be a sign of bigger problems, and she suggests a vet check if it is accompanied by any sores or swelling.

 

Given this, and the speed it's changing at, I'd take her in, but remember there can be lots of beign bumps.

 

I'll hold both of you in the light, hopefully it's nothing serious.

[macoduck]

Interesting article. Thanks PatricksMom.

[Guest LindsaySF]

If it was just the loss of pigment I wouldn't worry (Clancy's nose gets lighter every day, it's weird). But with that bump/ulcer, I'd want the vet to look at it. Dogs can get skin cancer on their noses.

 

I hope it's nothing!

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Jill]

Geez Ducky. I've never seen that before. Hope its nothing. Good thing it does'nt seem to bother her, but I'd have it check out for sure. Sending good thoughts your way!

[Guest greybookends]

Ducky I hope it's nothing but give her a kiss from me.

[Guest Energy11]

Geez Ducky. I've never seen that before. Hope its nothing. Good thing it does'nt seem to bother her, but I'd have it check out for sure. Sending good thoughts your way!

 

No, I have never seen anything like it before, either.

 

I'd get the vet to look at is, and maybe biopsy, and go from there.

 

Sending love to you and Gracie!

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Could it be a scrape? Demon slipped on the ice this winter and had something similar looking but not quite as puffy.

[nyGreys]

Haven't a clue? Sending prayers for your sweetie.

[DevilDog]

Ugh, scary! Hugs and white light for your vet visit Friday!

[Guest Tokolos]

Sprinkles has some loss of color on his nose and some extreme dryness, but no ulceration or raised bumps like your grey. When we took him to the vet, he gave us an anti-fungal/bacterial/inflammatory/itch cream called <a href="http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9613">Animax</a>. We apply it twice a day, and it has helped a great deal, though it seems like the nose kicks right back into cracky/dry mode the minute we slow down. Not sure if this helps.

[Guest Greyglo]

Adding more good wishes for Gracie from here --

[Guest kydie]

Ouch, poor pup, please keep us posted

[macoduck]

Sprinkles has some loss of color on his nose and some extreme dryness, but no ulceration or raised bumps like your grey. When we took him to the vet, he gave us an anti-fungal/bacterial/inflammatory/itch cream called <a href="http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9613">Animax</a>. We apply it twice a day, and it has helped a great deal, though it seems like the nose kicks right back into cracky/dry mode the minute we slow down. Not sure if this helps.

It's not dry at all. Not have I caught her rubbing it before or after this change. Just odd that first there was the de-pigmentation and then overnight the bump/redness/ulceration popped up.

[greyhndz]

It could be an atypical presentation of discoid lupus. You say no odor or purulent drainage (pus)?

 

She might need a biopsy for a definitive dx. But it looks similar to what my Ruby had when he had a flare of DL.

[Guest SoulsMom]

Sprinkles has some loss of color on his nose and some extreme dryness, but no ulceration or raised bumps like your grey. When we took him to the vet, he gave us an anti-fungal/bacterial/inflammatory/itch cream called <a href="http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9613">Animax</a>. We apply it twice a day, and it has helped a great deal, though it seems like the nose kicks right back into cracky/dry mode the minute we slow down. Not sure if this helps.

It's not dry at all. Not have I caught her rubbing it before or after this change. Just odd that first there was the de-pigmentation and then overnight the bump/redness/ulceration popped up.

 

Ducky sounds and looks like some sort of sore . . sorry, I'm not much help.

 

Tokolos, your situation on the other paw sounds like Discoid Lupus

[CaliforniaGreys]

Just want to add good thoughts for Gracie

[macoduck]

It could be an atypical presentation of discoid lupus. You say no odor or purulent drainage (pus)?

 

She might need a biopsy for a definitive dx. But it looks similar to what my Ruby had when he had a flare of DL.

 

No odor or pus.

How do they biopsy that? Would she have to be sedated?

 

If it is lupus, is the treatment prednisone (pills?)....forever? Any others meds in combo with that?

 

If it isn't and perhaps a topical creme is used, how do you keep a dog from licking it?

 

Editing to add: just found this - " It is important that a definitive diagnosis is established, as there are more serious diseases that can look like discoid lupus. One example is a form of cutaneous lymphoma called mycosis fungoides. It starts with loss of pigmentation of the nose and lips and then progresses into ulcerations. Prognosis for this type of lymphoma is poor. Biopsy is crucial to differentiate between similar diseases."

 

From here

Edited March 23, 2010 by macoduck

[Guest SoulsMom]

I know the biopsy for DL is a punch biopsy. It's quite painful and she would need to be out for it. It is also very slow to heal, which is why my vet hasn't pushed for one. The 'aggresivness' of the lupus would determine your course of treatment. There are lots of things you can do beside lifelong meds. Just gotta find the regiment that works.

 

I also wanted to add that a classic sign of DL is a 'smooth' nose---the nose loses pigment, is crusty, and loses the classic cobblestone look. Doesn't look that has happened to Gracie. . .

Edited March 23, 2010 by SoulsMom

[Guest Energy11]

Ducky,

 

You know, you can get pretty "spooked," on the internet. I know I can.

 

Please TRY not to worry until you know something for sure, ok?

 

Sending you lot of love and prayers! Dee

[Rickiesmom]

Can you get on a cancellation list for the vet? You are going to worry so much between now and Friday, when it might be something completely innocuous.

[greyhndz]

OK, Ducky, hold your breath. Lots of technical stuff but I think you'll be able to decipher a lot of it.

 

Makes me think in terms of a deep pyoderma, or pemphigus foliaceus (?) but derm isn't my forte.

 

diagnosis

 

nasal dermatitis

 

 

In General, Biopsy is Indicated [4]:

1. In all cases where it is suspected that the definitive diagnostic is reached by histology, e.g. pemphigus foliaceous, erythema multiforme complex, follicular dysplasia or dystrophy...
2. When the response to the treatment initiated based on objective clinical judgement does not provide with the expected clinical response, e.g. pyoderma not responding to adequate antibiotic treatment.
3. In cases with nodular lesions compatibles with neoplastic disorders or with persistent ulceration.
4. In all cases of dermatosis with unusual or serious appearance, for example extensive ulcerative or exudative lesions
5. When there is the suspicion of a disease that will require long-term, expensive or dangerous treatment and a final diagnosis is necessary before treatment is initiated.

autoimmune skin disease

 

More than you want to know about skin nodules

 

pemphigus foliaceus

 

check out photo L upper - pemphigus foliaceus

 

Tons of articles on dermatology

[macoduck]

Wow Jordan! That was a lot of homework. I registered with the IVIS site so I could view some of those articles. Thank you!

 

What I do find a bit reassuring is that whatever is on Gracie's nose isn't something that looks like any photo I've seen or Googled. Most of the nose lupus pics show it starting on the top of the nose, not the bottom. Plus the rest of her nose is normal - no cobblestone appearance or peeling.

 

I also feel a little better because many of the things I thought it might be report having other health issues associated with the affected dog. Not so with Gracie.

 

I'm on the call list if the vet I'd prefer to see gets a cancellation.