Toad Toxicity - Lulu

[Guest GentleHugs]

The beginning of this long story was posted originally in EEG about us almost losing LuLu a couple of nights ago. Since it basically turned into a medical situation for the last 2 nights, I decided to post here hoping it will help another dog in case something like this happens.

 

Here's the linky to the original post Almost Lost LuLu Last Night

 

Well, the same thing happened last night only this time a few more symptoms popped up which led us to discover what really happened the night before! The little brat is ok but here's what happened last night:

 

I turned the dogs out for the last time and I kept watch to see if I noticed anything unusual. Well, LuLu kept hanging around the back fence in one corner. She was muzzled, too. I finally got all of them inside, gave them their cookies and waited. Sure enough, she started presenting the same gagging symptoms but this time she was also pawing/rubbing her face on the dog bed and scratching herself all over like she had a really bad case of fleas. (She doesn't have fleas btw) Finally she threw up. As I was cleaning everything up, I looked over at her face. It was swelling and she had hives ALL over her head! Ah Ha! She had been eating something outside through her muzzle and it caused an allergic reaction!

 

So, with DH's help, we shoved a 150mg zantac pill down her throat and gave her lots of water to wash it down with. (I'll explain the zantac here in a few) DH stayed inside with her while my daughter and I took a flashlight and went outside to the corner she kept hanging around. There was nothing we could see that she was eating to make her sick like this. Hmm....... then it came to the both of us at the same time - toads.

 

We've had a whole bunch of baby toads lately in the yard late at night because of all the rain we've had. Toads are toxic to pets and some dogs are notoriously curious (LuLu) about toads. Well, toads emit a toxic venom that's highly irritating to the mouth and it causes the same exact symptoms (vomiting, swelling, pawing at the mouth, head shaking, profuse frothy salivation, retching or gagging) that LuLu was presenting. Common toads (as we have here) will cause localized toxic effects. Giant or marine toads are deadly (their venom has a high death rate - 20 to 100%) and luckily we don't have them here. They are only in Texas, Florida and Hawaii.

 

By the time Adrienne and I got back inside, she was doing better and the swelling had started to go down in her face. The zantac does the same thing as benadryl does (counteracts the poison or toxin) except without the drowsiness and it also neutralizes the stomach, too. So, I stayed up and 2 hours later, she was fine. The swelling went down, she was breathing fine and she was cockroaching.

 

Anyway, I called the E-vet and luckily my favorite E vet, Dr. M was there. I spoke to him and he said what we did was basically what he would have done, too. Flush the mouth out with lots of water and give her something to counteract the toxin such as benadryl. He said he didn't know that zantac does the same thing as benadryl so he thanked me for passing that on to him. There's really nothing else they could or would have done unless she went into cardiac arrest.

 

Now, he also said what he thought what happened the night before. He thinks she got ahold of a baby toad and got the toxin in her mouth. When she came back in, she ate her cookies but at the same time, the toxin was starting to take affect causing just enough swelling for part of the cookie to get caught in her throat. When DH did the CPR on her, it unlodged the cookie. Since the toxin only has a local effect for a few hours or so, she was feeling much better once the cookie got unlodged.

 

Now, since we know what really happened and WHY it happened, Miss LuLu will get tape on the end of her muzzle so she can't get to the baby toads or she will be leashwalked at night until the toads go into hibernation for winter. Then we have to find a way to get rid of the baby toad population explosion near the back fence to keep this from happening again.

 

Everyone has asked where we learned doggy CPR at. Several years ago, I saw a talk show and one of the guests demonstrated animal CPR. Well, when I took my kids into my vet for a routine exam, I asked him about it. He said for us to come back in and he would show us doggy CPR. So, that's where my DH, Adrienne (my daughter) and I learned it. He also showed us the doggy heimlich, too, just in case. I understand the Red Cross has classes on CPR for pets now so if anyone is interested, you might want to check there or ask your vet.

 

Btw - I've never seen a dog hive before. It looked like she had little raised bumps all over her head, face and neck like she had been stung all over by a bee. Of course, it was 9:48pm at night so I knew it wasn't caused by a bee. Since LuLu goes after everything that flies, jumps, hops, moves, slithers, walks or runs, I should have suspected toads. If it would have been a plant she was nibbling on, she would have nibbled on it during the day and she would have gotten sick during the day but it was only happening at night. Toads are usually only out at night here.

 

So, long story, lesson learned and LuLu is ok. Not sure if she actually ate one or if she just licked it and got the venom in her mouth. I guess I'll find out when I go to pick up her poop today. If I see a toad leg sticking up out of her poop, I'll know.

 

It was certainly the most scariest thing I've went through in a long time. LuLu is the ONLY Greyhound out of all of my Greys that has caused me to put my vet and the e vet's phone # on speed dial. She's earned the nickname "toad girl" now. She's one lucky girl.....

 

And she is doing just fine now. She's back to being as normal as she is - considering she's LuLu.

 

 

 

[Guest Energy11]

Wow! You have been through it! I had NO idea about the Zantac. I would have probably used Benedryl, ... OR, in your case, injectable Benedryl (*I have it). Boy oh boy!

 

 

I HAVE seen dog hives. Staggerlee and Oakly had horrible reactions to fire ant bites when we still lived in Florida! Both got injectable Benedryl, and had to be watch closely. Oakly's head looked like Great Dane's!

 

GD toads! Glad everything is okay, and did a wonderful job with this!

[ZoomDoggy]

Wow, what a scary set of events! Thank goodness you were able to help her.

[seeh2o]

Wow! What a mystery...I'm so glad you were able to figure it out. You might want to consider getting a poop guard for Lulu's muzzle, they appear to be easy to clean. Thanks for the tip about the Zantac, too.

 

My beloved departed Lab put her mouth on a big old toad for a split second, she turned and looked at me with big eyes...and a mouth full of foam. She looked like she was getting ready to shave! That was the last time she ever put her mouth on one.

[Guest GentleHugs]

Wow! What a mystery...I'm so glad you were able to figure it out. You might want to consider getting a poop guard for Lulu's muzzle, they appear to be easy to clean. Thanks for the tip about the Zantac, too.

 

My beloved departed Lab put her mouth on a big old toad for a split second, she turned and looked at me with big eyes...and a mouth full of foam. She looked like she was getting ready to shave! That was the last time she ever put her mouth on one.

 

Got a poop guard on order now. That was the FIRST thing I did this morning before taking care of any other online business. But, since this is the holiday extended weekend, I'm forced to use tape until her poop guard gets here which is a-ok by me as long as she can't squeeze another darn toad through the tape!

 

The zantac we gave her last night was 150mg and it took a little less than 5 minutes for it to start working. Zantac is good for allergic reactions and stuff like that. It's also good for the stomach, too, just the same as pepcid is. Benadryl offers the same amount of relief but can also be used for thunderphobia whereas the zantac doesn't work for thunderphobia.

 

The zantac not only counteracted the toxin that caused the hives and swelling - it also neutralized everything in her stomach, too.

 

She sure looked miserable with those hives all over her head..... never in my life did I ever have a hound (or other dog) that went after the toads before. LuLu is the first but then again we ARE talking about LuLu here..... I think her elevator is stuck on the first floor.

[Guest greyhound1]

Glad she is ok now! Never knew about zantac either.

[Guest GentleHugs]

Wow! You have been through it! I had NO idea about the Zantac. I would have probably used Benedryl, ... OR, in your case, injectable Benedryl (*I have it). Boy oh boy!

 

I would have used benadryl if I had any left but unfortunately, my daughter has allergies and used my last benadryl. It was my DH who grabbed the zantac and offered it to give to her. His Dr told him to use it because he's been having tummy issues from being on antibiotics for so long for his cellulitis. His Dr was also the one who said zantac is similar to benadryl to counteract allergic reactions only it doesn't have the drowsiness effect to it.

 

I figured if anything it would help her tummy out but it did both.....counteract the hives and swelling plus helped neutralize her tummy. She only weighs 60 lbs soaking wet.

 

Now, I'm hoping the rest of the weekend goes smooth. Today is my daughter's 26th birthday. We are hoping for a nice quiet birthday and holiday that is if LuLu will allow us a few days off to rest and relax.

[rycezmom]

I've lived all my life with these toads. Tried explaining to Bo that she shouldn't taste the toads but it took her 3 tries to figure out that she shouldn't deal with them at all. We've all grown up with watching the hounds and washing out mouths. For a long time, and still do, keep epi pens dosed to hound/lbs, benadryl etc in the house. I'm also lucky enough to live 3 minutes from the Emergency/Critical Care Vet which is staffed 24 hours/day. These things seem to be spreading out to a lot of the southeastern states. Its good for everybody to know about them.

 

 

http://www.healthyhomesforkidsandpets.com/articles/bufo.html

 

Good pics with this article

http://www.floridagardener.com/critters/BufoMarinus.htm

Edited September 5, 2009 by rycezmom

[Guest Energy11]

Wow! You have been through it! I had NO idea about the Zantac. I would have probably used Benedryl, ... OR, in your case, injectable Benedryl (*I have it). Boy oh boy!

 

I would have used benadryl if I had any left but unfortunately, my daughter has allergies and used my last benadryl. It was my DH who grabbed the zantac and offered it to give to her. His Dr told him to use it because he's been having tummy issues from being on antibiotics for so long for his cellulitis. His Dr was also the one who said zantac is similar to benadryl to counteract allergic reactions only it doesn't have the drowsiness effect to it.

 

I figured if anything it would help her tummy out but it did both.....counteract the hives and swelling plus helped neutralize her tummy. She only weighs 60 lbs soaking wet.

 

Now, I'm hoping the rest of the weekend goes smooth. Today is my daughter's 26th birthday. We are hoping for a nice quiet birthday and holiday that is if LuLu will allow us a few days off to rest and relax.

 

Pepcid AC, Zantac, Tagamet ... all of this are H2 blockers (antihistamines), AND, given the stomach effects, you really did do well in picking the Zantac! :-)) I don't THINK we have those toads here .... sure do hope not, but, as I said, we had almost the same reactions from those fire ants in Florida! YOU DID A GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy birthday to your daughter, too! :-)))

[MarcR]

Wow... I'll take squirrels and chipmunks over toads any day. Glad to hear she's OK and that you've gotten to the bottom of the problem. And thanks also for the info on Zantac.

 

For those with an iPhone or iPod Touch, there's a pet first aid app that includes written instructions and a video on pet CPR. Here's a link to the publisher's web site: http://jive.me/petfirstaid/

[Remolacha]

Toads, huh... Lulu I had a cat try to eat a toad once, not one of our highly poisonous Colorado River Toads, but it made her pretty sick anyway. I'm glad to know about the Zantac, I always have it on hand.

 

Please Lulu, take the next couple of days off!

[Guest houndstooth4]

I read the other thread earlier, but I wouldn't have guessed toads that first time, either! The Zantac trick is a good one to know, though!

[Guest GentleHugs]

I've lived all my life with these toads. Tried explaining to Bo that she shouldn't taste the toads but it took her 3 tries to figure out that she shouldn't deal with them at all. We've all grown up with watching the hounds and washing out mouths. For a long time, and still do, keep epi pens dosed to hound/lbs, benadryl etc in the house. I'm also lucky enough to live 3 minutes from the Emergency/Critical Care Vet which is staffed 24 hours/day. These things seem to be spreading out to a lot of the southeastern states. Its good for everybody to know about them.

 

 

http://www.healthyhomesforkidsandpets.com/articles/bufo.html

 

Good pics with this article

http://www.floridagardener.com/critters/BufoMarinus.htm

 

 

The one LuLu got ahold of was just a common toad - not a Bufo toad otherwise called a giant or marine toad. The Bufo toads are HIGHLY toxic with a 20 to 100% mortality rate. If she would have gotten ahold of a bufo toad - she wouldn't be with us today I'm afraid.

 

Common toads are toxic but not as toxic as the Bufo toads are. Common toad poisoning is more of a localized poisoning that takes a few hours to get over.

[Guest ss556]

Wow, glad you figured this out!

[Guest longdogs]

Where is the reference for Zantac being useful for toad toxin? I can only track down mention on pet sites and they all appears to be unsupported by any evidence other than, "I gave it to my dog and it got better". Zantac may have anticholinesterase activity but there seems no link between cholinesterase and toad toxin. I can't find any veterinary treatment pages that suggest Zantac or other H2 blocker is useful. The toxin is marine (cane) toads is very complex and has many different active constituents. Cane toads are a major problem in Australia and kill many pets and wildlife. I would be very seriously interested in anything that could assist.

[Guest GentleHugs]

Where is the reference for Zantac being useful for toad toxin? I can only track down mention on pet sites and they all appears to be unsupported by any evidence other than, "I gave it to my dog and it got better". Zantac may have anticholinesterase activity but there seems no link between cholinesterase and toad toxin. I can't find any veterinary treatment pages that suggest Zantac or other H2 blocker is useful. The toxin is marine (cane) toads is very complex and has many different active constituents. Cane toads are a major problem in Australia and kill many pets and wildlife. I would be very seriously interested in anything that could assist.

 

I'm sorry Longdogs - I don't know if there is a reference to using zantac for dogs specifically for toad toxin. We used it because we didn't have any benadryl on hand and my husband's Dr told him that zantac does the same thing as benadryl does except without the drowsiness.

 

My vet has told me in the past that it was ok to use pepcid or zantac for tummy problems because it neutralizes and calms everything down in the tummy. I've given pepcid and zantac before when my dogs had stomach upset.

 

At the time we gave it to her - we did not know she had gotten ahold of a common toad. All we knew was she was hiving and had swelling around the mouth area which indicated an allergic reaction.

 

Also remember - LuLu did NOT get ahold of a marine toad. We don't have marine toads here where I live. It was a common toad she got ahold of. Common toads produce localized effects on dogs such as vomiting, swelling, etc.

 

I looked it up online on the Merck veterinary manual website and my emergency vet agreed what we did was right for a source of emergency treatment. Here's the link to the Merck veterinary manual website specifically about toad poisoning

 

Hope this helps.

Edited September 6, 2009 by GentleHugs

[Guest 3greysinPA]

OMG... Toads....

 

OH Lulu... NO more toads... NO more excitement.... wow....

i am so glad she is okay and that ou figured out what was happening...

Wow.. talk about strange things you never think of...

 

I am so glad she is ok... thank you doG

[Guest zoolaine]

Lulu - you silly girl, leave those toads alone!

[Guest GentleHugs]

Their last turnout last night was totally uneventful - maybe that's because Mom taped her muzzle until her cup guard comes in.

 

She doesn't like the tape but oh well - her little rear is going to have to live with it until the cup comes in and the toads go into hibernation for winter.

 

All I know is I'm still having some after affects from the whole ordeal and she acts like nothing happened.

 

Ashley and Patrick (my other two) don't mess with the toads. Heck - they wouldn't even get near the live snapping turtle LuLu was playing soccer with a while back. But LuLu - well she dangles her life on the edge.

 

My medicine cabinet and first aid kit for the dogs has grown quite a bit since I adopted her. I used to just have the basics because we rarely had any injuries and such with my other hounds - maybe some minor occasional boo boo's but that was it. LuLu, however, makes up for everything that hasn't happened in the past.

 

I'm going to call my regular vet when he opens up on Tuesday and let him know what happened. I'm sure though Dr. M the e vet probably faxed over the consultation sheet already so Dr. C can put it in her file. Our E Vet here is very good about making sure the regular vet knows about any accidents and emergency health problems that happens off hours.

 

I've also learned not to ask the question "what's next?" with LuLu..... because sure as heck - she will come up with something else that's totally unexpected. Talking about a dog that pushes you to the limit....

 

 

[Guest paulamariez]

Glad your little sweetie is better! I know how dangerous toads can be. I think I even may have posted about it before. We had a bad reaction to one a couple years ago when our gal was pawing at her mouth and salivating excessively. We ended up rushing her to the vet and she got a benedryl shot. Our vet told us any time our hounds start with the excessive salivation thing, to give them benedryl immediately (unless you know they got into something else) because the salivation is usually a symptom of an allergic reaction. Luckily, we did not have the hive reaction and so forth like you did. All and all I am glad your little LuLu is better.

[seeh2o]

Gentlehugs, could we get a picture or two of the infamous Lulu? I really want to see a picture of this little fireball!

[EllenEveBaz]

I'm glad she's doing well and that you've figured out the mystery. It made me think of Mason Williams's "Them Poems," which has one about toad sucking. Williams wrote and recorded the late 60's instrumental hit, "Classical Gas," with acoustic guitar and sweeping violins. He also had poems that he'd chant on the nightclub circuit, and this one seems just perfect for Lulu:

 

Them Toad Suckers

 

How about Them Toad Suckers,

Ain't they clods?

Sittin' there suckin'

Them green toady-frogs.

 

Suckin' them hop-toads,

Suckin' them chunkers,

Suckin' them leapy types,

Suckin' them plunkers.

 

Look at Them Toad Suckers,

Ain't they snappy?

Suckin' them bog-frogs

Sure makes'em happy.

 

Them huggermugger Toad Suckers,

Way down south,

Stickin' them sucky-toads

In they mouth.

 

How to be a Toad Sucker?

No way to duck it.

Gittchyself a toad,

Rare back and suck it!

 

[brandimom]

Therese, it sounds like LuLu is going to be writing another book! Glad you got to the bottom of this.

 

Sharon

[Guest GentleHugs]

Gentlehugs, could we get a picture or two of the infamous Lulu? I really want to see a picture of this little fireball!

 

I don't have photo bucket - I'd have to send it to you privately but yes, you can see a picture of her..... or I could post some pictures of her on a special page on my website and then post the link to the page. I'd have to do it tomorrow though - I'm getting ready to do last turnout then go to bed.

 

Would you like to see a picture of her imitation of a roast turkey? She does it well! Right down to the no head thing!

 

She's got this stuffy catepillar that she carries - um drags around sometimes. It's as long as she is....

 

Oh and she's got an overbite, too. When she went after the toads - she was wearing her muzzle!

 

Therese, it sounds like LuLu is going to be writing another book! Glad you got to the bottom of this.

 

Sharon

 

We are already in the process of writing her second book. It will be titled "LuLu Perfectly ImBaLaNcEd". I guess these past few days will make a few interesting chapters in the 2nd one.

[seeh2o]

I can't wait to see her!