Osteo / Amputation Poll

[queenwinniesmom]

Being a vet, personally, I think this poll is not set up to meet many canine owners answers. I see too many who only have days or weeks not 1-3 months which is your first choice.

 

 

I think that this answer pretty much sums it up.

 

But then again, we have Darcy. Today she celebrates 20 months since diagnosis and amputation (which both took place on the same day). 20 months. I KNOW you wanted Polli to be one of the dogs who did 20+ months and I know Tom wanted that for Ember and I know everyone else who's taken the amp/chemo route wants the same and I'm so sorry that you didn't get your dream. But (and I say this as sensitively as I can), I did get my dream. There's nothing special about me or about Darcy - it just seems to be the luck of the draw. Some dogs go on for a good length of time after diagnosis (we know this to be true both from here on GT with Darcy, Winslow and others) and from reading other forums and reading stories after googling.

 

What I'm saying is that *some* dogs get to live the dream whilst others do not. If I (god forbid a million times) was faced with the same situation again, I would take the same road again (as long as the dog was a suitable candidate).

 

 

Personally for me, in dealing with osteo, amp is not an option - SugarBear's breeder taught me to ask myself, "am I keeping her alive for me or for her".

My feelings exactly! Looking at the odds even shown in this small poll, I'm afraid I wouldn't put my dog through amputation in the hope of gaining just the few short extra weeks it generally seems to provide.

If I hadn't taken the amputation route with Darcy, she would have been dead within weeks. As it is, she's alive 20 months later and not only is she alive - she's having a GREAT life. Yes, I am enjoying having her alive and with me but I can also tell you that SHE is enjoying being alive too.

 

Virtually everything we do as dog owners, we do for ourselves in part at least - including owning dogs in the first place.

 

 

It wouldn't let me vote either. Technically, there isn't a category for us---with Winnie, we did amputate, but did not do chemo.

 

 

Bev, everything you said is 100% what I feel! You have Darcy (and so do her many fans). And I had Winnie. And reading the poll results, I realize how damn lucky we were. In fact, I feel I walk a fine line between wanting to inspire others who are facing the monster, and giving people false hope that they will get the same results that Winnie got (though we did loose 1 dog to osteo in the pelvic bone---no amp, and 1 to lymphoma in the middle of chemo). It breaks my heart when I see another dog being gone too soon after the diagnosis. But this is what I feel: we do what we feel is right because we love them, and only the person living with and loving and understanding their dog can make that decision. It is right for them. And sometimes it is enough, and sometimes everything we do leads us to the heartbreak of a beloved member of our family being stolen away by the monster. Bluntly, it's a crapshoot. But sometimes your hand is forced. Winnie's leg would have shattered if we hadn't removed it---as the bone did when the vet biopsied it after the amputation. And we knew that she was tough, stubborn, stoic, and certainly not a drama queen, or a dog who was afraid of anything. Winnie was pretty much fearless. We knew in our hearts it was right for her because she basically let us know that, before the amp, after the amp, and every day for over 3 years! Just as she let me know the day we put her to sleep (due to kidney failure, not osteo) that she was so very tired, and it was time. Everyone has probably seen pictures of her running in a field, laying in the grass, standing on the beach at Dewey. She went to Dewey 3 times after her surgery, and to Gettysburg, Grapehounds and Mountainhounds. The only place she wouldn't go was a slick floor! So obviously, those 3 1/2 years were good years. I also feel that the stigma of being a tripod is a human feeling. Please allow me that opinion, as I would understand that not everyone agrees. But anyway, in retrospect, I would do everything the same.

That said, if I was faced with the decision for one of my current 3 girls, I cannot say for sure that I would do the same thing. Each of them is very different from Winnie, and osteo is cruel in it's randomness and progression. I certainly wouldn't assume that I would get exactly the same results. I would hope so, of course, but could not allow myself to second guess any decision if the results were very different.

 

 

P.S. And then there is Winslow!

 

[Guest PiagetsMom]

 

 

I also feel that the stigma of being a tripod is a human feeling. Please allow me that opinion, as I would understand that not everyone agrees

 

I agree that the stigma of being a tripod would be totally a human feeling......maybe that would be an influence for some, but my thoughts on the subject have never had anything to do with a pup being "different", and everything to do with the success of amputation vs treatment/pain management.

 

I don't know that it surprises me as it seems that even here in our small GreyTalk community a significant successful amputation outcome seems far outweighed by those that were not successful, but it appears that so far, with those who were allowed to vote, the ratio is pretty much the same whether you amputated or not. It will be interesting to see if that holds true after the majority has voted.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest PhillyPups]

I am extremely upset that I even posted in this thread, I should have followed my gut instinct.

 

I made a quote relating to my beloved 14.5 year old girl, which quote since has been misinterpreted, and taken out of context. Everytime I read the quote out of context, I feel like I am being slapped for sharing that level of personal love and pain that I had to face totally alone without the support of message boards like this or any family near me at the same time I was losing my mother. I loved her so very deeply, it has had me in tears all afternoon. I have learned my lesson. In the future I will continue to stay a very private person even here where when something is posted and I state that it is a very personal and painful decision it can be thrown up in your face and misinterpreted.

 

[MaryJane]

I'm not sure if I understand what the intent of this poll is. Is it to convince people that amputated that they did the wrong thing or to convince people that didn't amputate that they did the wrong thing. Whatever, this is a very sad, sad thread ...

 

I'd hate to think that this poll will influence someone in their decision when faced with this disease one way or the other. It's not a scientific study and there are just so many dogs out there that are not getting counted and it's likely inaccurate because of that.

 

Please don't get me wrong, the comments are wonderful, so many people opening up and sharing their thoughts and why did what they did.

 

I hope that anyone facing this disease in their greyhound will talk to their vet (and OSU) and find out what the prognosis is in their case. It would be sad to think that someone might end up using this poll to make such an important decision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest jettcricket]

I don't think that's what Robin intended....I think she was just asking. Like some people have said, it is a very personal decision and it depends on the dog.

 

I would not do it again, but I would never judge anyone for doing what they feel is right for their dog.

Edited June 16, 2009 by jettcricket

[Guest Capslock]

Just to relate my story - Clyde started limping when he was about 9 years old. He was a healthy, hearty dog, and it was my first brush with anything like this. I opted for the amputation (right rear leg), and chemo.

 

The wound took about a month to fully heal - but Clyde got happier and healthier every day. Soon he was running like crazy at the dog park again. He could jump in and out of my SUV with ease, and was a very popular dog park member.

 

He got about 9 months before the cancer came back and took him. Only the last week was bad. Looking back on it, I'd say it was worth it, as he got some good quality time out of it. If I though he'd get much less time than that, I'd probably opt out, though, and just go with pain management. Other than the cost and the initial problems with the wound, it was pretty easy to manage. He picked up the stairs very quickly too, which surprised me, so I didn't have t carry him up and down for long at all.

 

There are no right or wrong answers here, but it is worthwhile to hear people's stories because when you're facing something like this for the first time, you just don't know what to expect or what's coming down the road, yet you have to make such important decisions on the spot.

[RobinM]

Anyone know how to modify the poll itself? Can't figure it out.

 

I am extremely upset that I even posted in this thread, I should have followed my gut instinct.

 

I made a quote relating to my beloved 14.5 year old girl, which quote since has been misinterpreted, and taken out of context. Everytime I read the quote out of context, I feel like I am being slapped for sharing that level of personal love and pain that I had to face totally alone without the support of message boards like this or any family near me at the same time I was losing my mother. I loved her so very deeply, it has had me in tears all afternoon. I have learned my lesson. In the future I will continue to stay a very private person even here where when something is posted and I state that it is a very personal and painful decision it can be thrown up in your face and misinterpreted.

 

I haven't read all the threads, I was more looking at the numbers of the poll- but please don't ever hesitate to share what you are experiencing or feeling or felt... that is the whole purpose of this board! There is always going to be someone who takes something out of context and sometimes "text" words are hard to keep in context. to begin with. Please don't feel like you have to explain yourself.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

I'm not sure if I understand what the intent of this poll is. Is it to convince people that amputated that they did the wrong thing or to convince people that didn't amputate that they did the wrong thing. Whatever, this is a very sad, sad thread ...

 

I'd hate to think that this poll will influence someone in their decision when faced with this disease one way or the other. It's not a scientific study and there are just so many dogs out there that are not getting counted and it's likely inaccurate because of that.

 

Please don't get me wrong, the comments are wonderful, so many people opening up and sharing their thoughts and why did what they did.

 

I hope that anyone facing this disease in their greyhound will talk to their vet (and OSU) and find out what the prognosis is in their case. It would be sad to think that someone might end up using this poll to make such an important decision.

 

I have serious doubts that anyone would use this poll, in and of itself, to make their decision. Information is always good, and information from this site combined with information from the greyhound community along with professional advice should all be considered and weighed. I personally feel the decision to amputate or to go with pain management as long as possible probably would more likely be determined by what most consider to be "heroic" measures (those actions above and beyond what would be considered acceptable treatment), and probably even more often, as someone mentioned above, what that individual owner needs to do for him/herself, instead of a scientific study.

Edited June 16, 2009 by PiagetsMom

[greyhoundlov]

I am extremely upset that I even posted in this thread, I should have followed my gut instinct.

 

I made a quote relating to my beloved 14.5 year old girl, which quote since has been misinterpreted, and taken out of context. Everytime I read the quote out of context, I feel like I am being slapped for sharing that level of personal love and pain that I had to face totally alone without the support of message boards like this or any family near me at the same time I was losing my mother. I loved her so very deeply, it has had me in tears all afternoon. I have learned my lesson. In the future I will continue to stay a very private person even here where when something is posted and I state that it is a very personal and painful decision it can be thrown up in your face and misinterpreted.

 

Please don't feel that way. We all do/did what we believe to be right for our pets. With China, we let her go in less than 2 hours. With Freddie, although it wasn't osteo, we waited about a week to 10 days and had to let him go - he hadn't eaten in 3 days and told us he was ready (liver/spleen). With Gidge, I wish we had let her go sooner than we did. It is so hard to know what to do so we go with our gut and live with the consequences. Big hugs to you.

[Bevd]

I think its important for everyone to remember that (a) we all have to do what WE think is most suitable for the dogs we own and love and (B ) it doesn't matter what anyone else on any internet forum (or anyone who is not part of our immediate family) thinks of our decision and ( c ) not to be hurt by anyones comments about anything we've written.

 

Edited to fix my b in brackets.

 

Edited again to fix my c in brackets.

 

Note to self - try not to use letters in brackets

Edited June 16, 2009 by Bevd

[Guest suzye]

I am so sorry for everyone who has lost their babies to this disease. I dread having to deal with it someday. It seems inevitable.

[jenn8]

So, even though I get upset that Wag was diagnosed with arthritis for many months when it was in fact cancer, and even though I live with guilt of did I do everything right: When I put myself through memory rehashing as I occasionally do, I still tend to go the route of saying no to amputation.

 

I would want to hear of a better prognosis than what I was given with Wag. He had intense pain. Then, he would have had pain from amputation. Then, he could have still been in more pain if the cancer had spread after all. I decided to end the pain rather than risk more pain in exchange for no time bought.

 

As I write this, it makes me wonder why I still feel guilty sometimes, even when I wouldn't have done anything different.

 

Sherry, Onyx was diagnosed with arthritis for many months before we discovered his cancer. From what I have been told, there was no way the cancer could have been there for that amount of time. So he still had the underlying issue and the meds I was giving him for that probably helped when the cancer started up. Maybe the two are related in some way. I don't know.

 

Jenn

 

[Jackandgrey]

I couldn't answer Robin because I could only answer part 2. Jack lived 6 months past diagnosis with pain management only. They were very good months with only a bad 3rd last day. I know I was very lucky but I would do the same with another dog.

[Guest G2G_Greys]

My girl Dottie lasted just over 3 month after diagnosis with pain management only....no amputation. I would do the same if I get another greyhound with osteo.

 

Ps...the poll wouldn't let me pick one because I could only answer part 2.

[RobinM]

I don't know how to fix the poll but with so many of you not able to vote because if it says a lot too.

 

Totally heartbreaking. This thread set DH and I both back quite a bit tonight.

 

Sigh.

[Guest MnMDogs]

I don't know how to fix the poll but with so many of you not able to vote because if it says a lot too.

 

Totally heartbreaking. This thread set DH and I both back quite a bit tonight.

 

Sigh.

 

Robin,

 

Please don't regret anything (if that's what you're implying). After going though the very fast loss off Matty, I can say with certainty I would second guess any decision I made. Honestly, I look back and wonder if we could have kept her comfortable, and did I give up too easily. An amp wasn't even an option for her because of other ortho issues, but I wonder every day if she could have handled it.

 

You did, I did, everyone on here did what we did out of love, and because we thought it was the best decision for our beloved pets.

 

[carronstar]

Robin,

 

Please don't regret anything. You asked good questions. You, and all the other people on here, made the very best decisions they could have made and they made them out of love. We may have hated the decision, whatever we chose, but we did what we thought was best for our pups. That is all that could be wished.

 

I know that Scarlett knew right to the end that I loved her more than breathing. I'm sure Polli knew the same thing. Every dog that we have lost has known that.

 

I wish the poll showed a better answer but it is what it is. There are those pups who have made it far longer than others, those are the pups that are the goal for what we all want. Because we are not there yet does not mean we shouldn't strive for it. Someday we will stop this horrible disease in its tracks! You, and all the others will have pushed us toward that goal.

[Guest HappyHarleysMom]

Robin,

 

Please don't regret anything. You asked good questions. You, and all the other people on here, made the very best decisions they could have made and they made them out of love. We may have hated the decision, whatever we chose, but we did what we thought was best for our pups. That is all that could be wished.

 

I know that Scarlett knew right to the end that I loved her more than breathing. I'm sure Polli knew the same thing. Every dog that we have lost has known that.

 

I wish the poll showed a better answer but it is what it is. There are those pups who have made it far longer than others, those are the pups that are the goal for what we all want. Because we are not there yet does not mean we shouldn't strive for it. Someday we will stop this horrible disease in its tracks! You, and all the others will have pushed us toward that goal.

Yes, please don't regret the poll. It was a place to share our experiences, painful as they are. No one judges, no one uses it to base their own decisions. It is a personal experience and every dog is different.

 

Sometimes it's good to share information just to share it. And, it's a very sad way to come together, but we all understand this pain. We relate to this pain.

 

In a way, it is a comfort to me to know that someone out in this world understands what I went through, and that I had a place to tell my story.

 

 

[lflaherty45]

Our 9 1/2 began limping and the night before the vet appt. our 5 yr old developed a lump on his right rear ankle. So both saw the vet and on the same day we learned that x-rays show that osteo may be present. Nebby was the oldest and we decided against the bone biopsy for him and just went with the xray. We had the biopsy for Clark to be positive, it was.

 

We pain managed our handsome brindle boy Nebby and he stayed with us till just after his 10th birthday, 5 months after his diagnosis we helped him to the bridge. The cancer weakened his bone, right rear leg at the hip area and it broke, just as the vet said. We kept him comfortable the entire time and promised him he would never be alone and we kept that promise to him.

 

Clark, our big goofy, lovable red brindle boy stayed with us 10 months after amputation. Did he have a good quality of life ? we think so. He ran in the yard and kept up with our 4 legged greys enjoying every minute, made it to Dewey and loved the beach. He never considered himself only a "3" legged dog! He loved his treats and all the attention. We also pain managed him, but when it was time he let us know.

 

We thought long and hard concerning his amputation, but because he was so young we wanted to give him a chance. We also thought that with finding it so quickly he would be with us for at least 2 yrs, I HATE CANCER !!!!!

 

Linda

[RobinM]

Please don't misunderstand. I am not sorry I asked for the poll- I am sorry for the numbers we have seen so far.

I am also sorry things did not work out better for more of us and I am sorry I can't modify the poll so that people who have lost their pups less than 1 month into it can vote. I have no clue how to modify that.

 

 

It just got me and Dh rehashing a lot of bad memories which as anyone who has been through this knows, it's very sad.

 

[Guest kydie]

I read these and am so sad, I have not lost a grey to cancer, but others, I am with carronstar, but each of us make the choice for our 4 legged babies, as we do for ourselves, as a nurse, I know my choice for me, and will do for my "babies" as I would for any other family member

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Please don't misunderstand. I am not sorry I asked for the poll- I am sorry for the numbers we have seen so far.

I wouldn't put any stock in the numbers. It won't let me vote and Morgan had 3 years after amputation. It's faulty data.

[Guest dwolfe711]

It wouldn't take my vote because I didn't have an answer for part I - we never amputated or did chemo for our four - all were seniors 11 or older and were not candidates for amp in our opinion and we managed pain with meds and herbal supplements.

 

We lost Red six weeks after diagnosis - osteo in his left front shoulder - he was 12.5.

 

We lost Elaine 10 months after diagnosis - osteo in her left front shoulder - she had a less aggressive form and was a trouper and fought hard to stay with us - even when she could barely walk anymore she was not ready to go - she was 11.5.

 

We lost Lizzy when she broke her right rear leg running in the yard - she never showed any signs of osteo such as limping, but the x-rays showed it in the leg she broke - we sent her to the Bridge that day - she was 14.5.

 

We lost Duncan three months after diagnosis - osteo in his right front leg - he was 12.

 

We do whatever we can to support Dr. Cuoto and others researching for a cure for this hideous disease.

 

Hugs to all who have lost babies to osteo (or any other cancer!) -

 

Donna