Constant Urination

[Guest Gingy]

I have an almost 5 year old female who has been drinking and peeing excessively recently, high creatinine, high BUN. We recently had an internal medicine specialist do a full workup and we're waiting on some test results regarding possible Cushings from the univ. of tennesee to come back, but the internal medicine vet felt it was most likely mild kidney failure and Cushing's was a long shot.

 

Meanwhile, she is constantly urinating in the house (we take her outside often and she urinates there too), she pees while she sleeps as well. It's hard to keep her bedding clean, and I tried to use training pads, but she won't touch those, just pees everywhere else. I can't crate her during the day because she will pee in the crate on her bedding and I don't want her laying in it for hours. I tried baby gating her in our bathroom which is a good size with a walk in shower that's separate, and put training pads in the shower area for her to pee on, but she peed on her bedding instead. We don't have a fenced in backyard, but her bladder is getting so full that she can't even hold it to make it outside anymore.

 

I'm at a loss as to how to deal with the urinating at this point, and I totally understand it's not her fault and she's sick. Should I be using diapers (what size?) or does anyone have any other ideas? Also, if it is kidney disease, does the excessive drinking and urination taper off with treatment? I see the vet next week again and results should be in then, but any help would be appreciated.

[greysmom]

Have they ruled out a simple urinary tract infection? It could very well be kidney failure.

 

There are incontinence products for dogs - female diapers basically that can be used for heat cycles or for urination.

 

I know some people limit their dogs access to water but I'm not sure you want to do this if she's sick. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in here. Don't get discouraged though, as the Board gets quiet during the weekends.

 

greysmom

[Guest gennygrey]

It could also be diabetes, and sometimes medication can help with that. I wonder if they can prescribe her Detrol. It works for humans and a lot of the dog medicines are people medicines to. It does not hurt to ask. Good luck and you dog is in my prayers.

[Guest Gingy]

Thanks for the support. We had soooo many tests run the past few weeks from urinalyses to ultrasounds and they ruled out everything except kidney failure and cushings. One positive thing is she's still energetic and eating!

[greyhead]

Thanks for the support. We had soooo many tests run the past few weeks from urinalyses to ultrasounds and they ruled out everything except kidney failure and cushings. One positive thing is she's still energetic and eating!

 

Our Shane hasn't been declared in actual kidney failure, so I don't know if this info will help, but I'll offer it anyway. (I've had two cats who lived for several years in chronic renal failure, so I learned a thing or two that way.) Especially as she's still energetic and eating well, those are good signs that what I'm about to say will help if it's a kidney problem.

 

If the BUN and creatinine are elevated but not extremely or permanently so, don't be too quick to reduce the protein level of the food drastically. That is the old way of doing things and has been found to just set up a vicious circle of problems. What counts is that the food have *high quality* protein. With Shane, when his values started to move away from normal range, and he was urinating/drinking a lot, leaking and having accidents, we switched to Wellness Core Low-Fat kibble (32% protein) mixed with Wellness canned food. We also started acupuncture (for his arthritis) and Chinese herbs. Last we checked, he was back at the top of normal range for BUN and creatinine. We got this result without even needing to use subcutaneous fluids.

 

Specifically, the herb Rehmannia is the best one for kidneys, and even our traditional vet knew about it. She said she's seen it do amazing things. Our CRF cats took potions containing rehmannia, and it helped them live far longer (by years) than expected, with also the use of subcutaneous fluids.

 

Cushings I know nothing about. I hope you can get a handle on this, whichever it is. We'll stay tuned for updates, so be sure and post them, okay? And PM me if there's anything you need.

 

Sending lots of prayers and good thoughts for a good outcome!

[Guest Flysmom]

Picking up the diabetes idea - our little Rat Terrier Kira had the same problems. Pee everywhere! Constant drinking! The vet diagnosed her with Diabetes. You could ask your vet to chek the Glucose level or you could go to a Drugstore and buy the Teststrips and check the Ketone levels in the urine.

Hope you find out soon what is going on!!

 

Opps, just saw that they arleady ruled nearly everything out.... Should read better before posting...

Edited March 28, 2009 by Flysmom

[Fiona3]

Did she have a test for thyroid problems (I know you mentioned there were lots of tests run)? We had a dog with similar symptoms and it was a thyroid condition. Wishing you the best in finding the solution - it's hard when you don't know what is going on with your pup.

[Guest IrskasMom]

 

 

I would have guessed Diabetes to , but not much experience altogether. Keeping your Pup in my Thoughts and Prayers .

[Batmom]

How high are BUN and creatinine? How much does she drink?

 

One thing that can help a dog with a drinking/peeing problem is a low- or no-salt diet. My Zema had trouble with minor overdrinking and some excess peeing/leakage. She now eats an extremely low sodium, limited ingredient homecooked diet (basically, meat with vitamin/mineral supplements) and has no problems. Put her on commerecial food, probleme reappears. Take her off commercial food, problem disappears.

 

Some acquaintances of long ago had a dog who drank huge amounts and of course peed huge amounts; ran dozens of tests with no useful results; as a longshot, vet decided to treat as if dog had a UTI and gave him a 6-week course of antibiotics; problem disappeared and never returned.

 

If she's really drinking huge amounts, might want to ask vets about diabetes insipidus, too.

[Ullaluv]

If she has kidney failure, do not limit her access to water. Her kidneys may not be able to concentrate the urine, so she needs lots of water to be able to flush her kidneys out and not get dehydrated. If you take the water away, she'll still make lots of dilute urine and will just get dehydrated, which could damage her kidneys even more.

 

Wishing the best for your girl.

[CaliforniaGreys]

I guess my mind would go to a UTI or kidney issues first, then Diabetes. All can be controlled. As for the Cushings, a true test for Cushings would require her to be at the vet's for 8 hours.

Once you find out what is going on, and start treatment, sypmtoms will start to subside.

This is just my opinion, but I would not use diapers because a wet diaper can only cause other issues.

Please let us know when you get the results

[Burpdog]

As Batmom asked: what is the BUN and creatine? How are her teeth? Did they culture the urine? Did they try clavamox just because?

[Guest mandm]

Should I be using diapers (what size?) or does anyone have any other ideas?

 

Seems they don't like to pee on hard surfaces, so containing them in a kitchen or bathroom usually doesn't work because they will end up peeing on their bedding. This is what I have done -- lay down plastic sheeting, I use old shower curtains, and then lay old towels on top of the plastic. Then it is easy to throw the towels in the washing machine. If you know it's going to be a lot of pee, you can add a thick layer of newspaper under the towels, but make sure it doesn't crunch when stepped on.

 

Good luck.

 

[Guest Gingy]

I'll try the plastic sheeting on the floor, that's a good idea, i notice she won't pee on the hard floor too. Her BUN is 31 and her creatinine is 2.0, been rising over time, her blood glucose has always been normal, urine's been cultured, teeth are good. They feel strongly that it's the kidneys, he was just ruling out every other diagnosis he could think of first due to her age.

[Batmom]

She's not taking any medications?

 

Do you have any idea of how much water she drinks each day?

 

What food and treats does she eat? Any supplements?

 

Ever seem to have an upset tummy?

 

For most labs whose ranges I'm familiar with, the BUN isn't far out of normal, creatinine would be considered entirely normal for a greyhound (tho above the top end of the "normal" range), and BUN:creatinine ratio well within normal range .....

Edited March 28, 2009 by Batmom

[Guest mandm]

Here is just a thought for you, I don't know if it will have any value for your situation -- when I got my 2 yr old greyhound, he had a lot of health problems. He was also mildly incontinent. He tested negative for UTI, so I assumed the problem was behavioral. Again, it was very mild, no plastic sheeting needed. He just leaked small amounts of urine. Usually in his bed, since that's where he spent most time. I figured it was behavioral, that he didn't want to use the backyard, that he was holding out for a walk. So I didn't worry about it, I just washed his beds a lot. And took him for frequent walks.

 

He had a lot of other, more serious problems. We did a lot of testing. His tick panel was low positive for babesia. We treated him. He got better. And after a while, I noticed that he didn't leak any more. So I have to assume that his minor incontinence was due to TBD. TBDs cause some really odd things.

 

I see you are in FL. Have you done a tick panel?

[Guest lastlaff]

Cushings is treatable and often it causes frequent accidents and an inordinant amount of urine. But, another common symptom is that they will be hungry..to the point of stealing and after a while can develope a bit of a pot bellied appearance. It usually is diagnosed around ages 7-10, but that being said. I am havign the same problems(not quite as severe perhaps) with my female and in her case we did the urine cultures and analysis and foudn nothing, until we put her on antibiotics anyways and it cleared up the accidents, but not the leaking. Diagnosis? Well, she has a hypertrotrophic clitoris from the testosterone at the tracks that apparently keeps harboring internal infectins (don't show on analyses which irritate her urethra and causes her to feel an exagerated urgency to urinate (Basically, the same symptoms humans get with lower urinary tract infections) She gets these infections almost monthly..we're having her clitoris removed..hopefully that will help our case.

 

But, anway, cushings is treatable so that isn't the end of the world if it happens to be that and when treated I would think the synmptoms would subside.

[MaryJane]

I didn't see any mention of the urinalysis results - was protein showing up in the first catch of the day urine? Do you know what the specific gravity was of the first catch urine? Was there glucose in the urine?

 

If protein is overflowing into the urine, then the kidneys are not able to handle that amount of protein in the blood. In this case, you may want to consider putting your dog on a kidney diet for a few weeks to see if the situation improves. Or, I know some people that have used a low protein percentage dog food instead of a kidney diet.

 

If one of the vets thinks it may be mild kidney disease, then I'm wondering why they haven't started your dog on a kidney diet especially when the urination is an issue.

 

Did she by any chance get into some raisins or the bad dog food?

[brandimom]

My last greyhound had renal failure and I truly believe monthly visits to the holistic vet for acupuncture prolonged her life. I also got in touch with Marina at www.naturalrearing.com and she sent me chinese herbs which I believed help. Tawny lived probably four more years after being diagnosed with kidney failure. I wish you and your baby good luck!

[Guest speedoketo]

BUN and creatinine are measures of kidney function so it doesn't make sense they would elevate for a urinary tract infection unless it has spread to the kidneys. I'm guessing there was no glucose in the urine since they don't suspect diabetes. I agree that high quality protein is important, prescription kidney diets sold by the vet have been shown to be very effective in managing kidney problems. Cushings does cause a big potbelly if it has progressed far enough. Lots of happy healing thoughts for your hound, hopefully the diagnosis is favorable. Keep us posted!

[CaliforniaGreys]

Just a small note about Cushings, Misty has Cushings and she never got the potbelly appearance so please don't judge by that alone.

This little girl is only 5 yrs old and with everything I have read about Cushings I have never heard of a 5 yr old dx with it.

[Guest Sweetreba]

I have an almost 5 year old female who has been drinking and peeing excessively recently, high creatinine, high BUN. We recently had an internal medicine specialist do a full workup and we're waiting on some test results regarding possible Cushings from the univ. of tennesee to come back, but the internal medicine vet felt it was most likely mild kidney failure and Cushing's was a long shot.

 

Meanwhile, she is constantly urinating in the house (we take her outside often and she urinates there too), she pees while she sleeps as well. It's hard to keep her bedding clean, and I tried to use training pads, but she won't touch those, just pees everywhere else. I can't crate her during the day because she will pee in the crate on her bedding and I don't want her laying in it for hours. I tried baby gating her in our bathroom which is a good size with a walk in shower that's separate, and put training pads in the shower area for her to pee on, but she peed on her bedding instead. We don't have a fenced in backyard, but her bladder is getting so full that she can't even hold it to make it outside anymore.

 

I'm at a loss as to how to deal with the urinating at this point, and I totally understand it's not her fault and she's sick. Should I be using diapers (what size?) or does anyone have any other ideas? Also, if it is kidney disease, does the excessive drinking and urination taper off with treatment? I see the vet next week again and results should be in then, but any help would be appreciated.

 

[Guest Sweetreba]

I had a shephard chow with excessive incontinence when sleeping. My vet said it was because she was spayed too young and evidently it does something with the bladder in some dogs. He put her on sebestriol which is a hormone and also pronin which is a antihistimine and it solved the problem. The pronin really worked and I have a friend whos cockapoo is on it too with great results and spaying was not the problem with her dog.

 

How it would be with the greys I don't know, but I am going to find out because my female grey has a peeing problem, which is new and I am going to talk with my vet about it. Of course we will do the urinalysis to rule anything else out first.

[Guest spider9174]

Ask your vet if phosporus was elevated in the blood results.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Her BUN is 31 and her creatinine is 2.0, been rising over time, her blood glucose has always been normal, urine's been cultured, teeth are good. They feel strongly that it's the kidneys, he was just ruling out every other diagnosis he could think of first due to her age.

Creatinine 2.0 is within the normal range for a Greyhound. How much has it risen over time?

 

What about urinalysis? Urinalysis should be done to determine if high BUN and creatinine values are due to kidney disease or another cause. High BUN could also be caused by dehydration, GI bleeding, urinary obstruction, etc. It's good that they did an ultrasound. Did the kidneys look normal?

 

Let her drink as much water as she wants. Is her urine clear?

 

If they suspect kidney disease she should be put on a kidney diet pronto.

 

I found this article online just now, I hope it helps: Does My Greyhound Really Have Kidney Disease?

 

 

 

~Lindsay~