Swelling In Legs

[Guest Fasave]

Last July I posted a long post about my pup having weird near collapses. At the time he was tested for everything under the sun (tick titer, auto immunce, ultra sound, etc) and we even did some accupuncture. The IM doc and Neuro doc at this hospital tried to tell me it was a back issue and wanted me to do a very expensive MRI so I took him to a second Neuro doc who spent two hours with us and told me it was intestinal cramping and he needed more fiber in his diet. The only other symptom was his creatine level was at 2 and a month later at 4 so he was started on Enecard. He did well, even very well until December even though his creatin came in at 6 in October.

 

Flash forward to the week prior to Christmas. He started getting finicky with his kibble (low protein, high fiber) but stuck it out through Christmas where I travelled to my Mom's house a couple hours away. Upon returning home, he drew a line and said no more to the kibble but was clearly hungery. After a couple of days of eating very little, I had friend come over to feed him while I was out and of course, he ate his whole meal for her. However, when I got home, I found a pup looking like he had just swallowed a watermellon. His abdomen was huge but he was otherwise happy and active. Seeing that it was late on a Sunday night and I'm only a couple miles from an e-vets, I decided to sleep with one eye open. In the morning when he was no better, I took him to my regular vet office who had a substitute. Of course, she had spent the weekend seeing all kinds of intestinal issues from holiday treats and confirmed the swelling was only in his bowels, to do chicken & rice for a week with some pepcid and try to get him back on his regular kibble.

 

So the swelling went down slowly during the week and this morning I was thrilled to see a nice small abdomen. He was more active than he had been and I was relieved. That is until while lying in bed next to me, he cockroached and I noticed swelling around his penis. Upon closer inspection, I noticed his legs were huge, to the point where I couldn't wrap my fingers around his ankle and have them touch. So off to the e-vets we went (different one). Everything looked good but his blood pressure was high (170-180) and he was pretty relaxed. Even chattering at times. So he was sent home with another blood pressure med.

 

They did find the protein in his blood was low (4.6 compared to 7 as normal). I will have the rest of his blood and urine results tomorrow. They did want to schedule an ultra sound guided biopsy but it requires heavy sedation and they don't want to put him under with his current blood pressure so I have an appointment with an IM doc on Wednesday. I have done some research on-line and cushings came up but aside from the swelling, he has no other symptoms.

 

My guy just turned 9. If anyone has any insights as to what might be going on with him, I would love to hear it. Thanks!

[Guest SkinnyLegDogLover]

Could the swelling be from his high blood pressure? I take BP meds as well as a diuretic, if I don't take it I swell up.

Also could be kidneys? I'm sure others will have much more advice than me. Hope he's okay!

[Guest Fasave]

Could the swelling be from his high blood pressure? I take BP meds as well as a diuretic, if I don't take it I swell up.

Also could be kidneys? I'm sure others will have much more advice than me. Hope he's okay!

 

 

yes, they think the swelling is a result of the blood pressure and the new med will work. This is likely a kidney issue, it's just a matter of whether it's simply kidney disease, an auto immune issue or cancer. Just hoping for some encouraging insights.

[Trudy]

What did the vet do to decide the gut swelling was just something he ate?

 

 

This is Ryan when his abdomen swelled up - it was full of fluid from his organs - confirmed by ultrasound and a fluid draw.

 

 

With his protein levels off, my guess is the swelling you are seeing is related to that problem. You need to figure out where he's losing the protein from and fix that.

[RobinM]

No advice, just many prayers for your boy.

[Guest ScottH]

We were very sorry to hear this news today. No advice, just some support and prayers.

From Noreen, Scott & Argos.

[Guest Carla]

Hi Melissa,

 

I hope he's going to be ok.

 

After Major had his stroke, they thought his undetected high blood pressure was a contributing factor that led to the stroke. Major was always a chow hound and I noticed prior to the stroke, he became very fussy about eating. So I think the fussiness about eating is probably related to the blood pressure.

 

I don't remember any swelling though.

 

Sending lots of prayers.

[Guest Fasave]

What did the vet do to decide the gut swelling was just something he ate?

 

 

This is Ryan when his abdomen swelled up - it was full of fluid from his organs - confirmed by ultrasound and a fluid draw.

 

 

With his protein levels off, my guess is the swelling you are seeing is related to that problem. You need to figure out where he's losing the protein from and fix that.

 

 

What was Ryan's diagnosis? I think some of the bloodwork they took today will provide some insights. It's interesting that none of the vets seem that concerned about swelling except as a symptom to something else. Is it really that common? And while I'm at it, it drives me nuts that labs at the e-vets are closed on Sundays.

 

Thanks everyone else for the well wishes. I'm only getting the ole' stink eye from his littermate is annoyed that someone else is getting all the attention.

[Bevd]

A few years ago, our lurcher Buddy, became swollen. She didn't get a massive amount of swelling around her abdomen (although she did get some) but she got it mainly around her face and on her legs. They were literally just like bags of fluid.

 

This is what Buddy look like under normal circumstances

 

 

 

 

 

But this is what she looked like when she was swollen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

She was losing protein and through a process of elimination, it was determined that it was from her gut. The vets were very reluctant to perform a gut biopsy because it was explained to me that if it is indeed PLE, the gut would take an awful long time to heal and this could cause even more problems than we had at the present time.

 

Buddy was treated with steriods and a change of diet (low fat, high protein) and she also had the white of one egg per day to increase her albumin levels. Over a period of time she was retested and then after more time (maybe about 6 months in total) she was weaned off all medication and she went back to her normal diet.

 

 

I'm not sure if this helps you in any way but I thought it might be worth sharing, just in case.

 

Sending best wishes for your dog

[Trudy]

What was Ryan's diagnosis?

 

After 15+ months, we still don't have one.

All we know is that he still pees out more protein than his body can make and his levels are still very high, but no longer off the chart. But his levels are stable now - high, but stable.

 

All we know is something made (still making?) him clot everywhere and he was peeing protein faster than his body could make it and his body filled with fluid from the protein loss and clotting. Still after 15 months, we just treat things as they come up and have given up figuring out what is behind all his problems. He has all the vets we worked with and were consulted with stumped, but he hangs in there. He's still not right, but he's stable and doing "ok"

 

[MandysMom]

No advice, just sending prayers for your boy.

[Guest Fasave]

A few years ago, our lurcher Buddy, became swollen. She didn't get a massive amount of swelling around her abdomen (although she did get some) but she got it mainly around her face and on her legs. They were literally just like bags of fluid.

 

This is what Buddy look like under normal circumstances

 

 

 

 

 

But this is what she looked like when she was swollen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

She was losing protein and through a process of elimination, it was determined that it was from her gut. The vets were very reluctant to perform a gut biopsy because it was explained to me that if it is indeed PLE, the gut would take an awful long time to heal and this could cause even more problems than we had at the present time.

 

Buddy was treated with steriods and a change of diet (low fat, high protein) and she also had the white of one egg per day to increase her albumin levels. Over a period of time she was retested and then after more time (maybe about 6 months in total) she was weaned off all medication and she went back to her normal diet.

 

 

I'm not sure if this helps you in any way but I thought it might be worth sharing, just in case.

 

Sending best wishes for your dog

 

 

OMG!! Those are my boys legs! They did mention the possibility of steriods. The vet was not very encouraging about his prognosis. It's good to hear some positive results. What food did you give her? I've heard they hate the k/d by Hills. I've seen some home cook recipes for PLE. Thanks so much for the insights.

 

 

What was Ryan's diagnosis?

 

All we know is something made (still making?) him clot everywhere and he was peeing protein faster than his body could make it and his body filled with fluid from the protein loss and clotting. Still after 15 months, we just treat things as they come up and have given up figuring out what is behind all his problems. He has all the vets we worked with and were consulted with stumped, but he hangs in there. He's still not right, but he's stable and doing "ok"

 

 

15+ months is more encouraging news than what I got today. I'll try to keep you updated on my guy and see if I land on something that can help Ryan. Thanks for sharing.

[Guest ss556]

See if it's kidney disease related. My grey is on two blood pressure meds as well as spironolactone, a potassium sparing diuretic. I hope you find your answer. Please update.

[MP_the4pack]

I have a girl with hypertension. She's on norvasc and phenoxybenzamine for that and it is now under control. She's also on lasix and other meds for her bad heart. I watch her carefully for any fluid buildup.

 

But. I did lose a grey to liver disease. Her liver enzymes were normal, which is what is usually tested for. But when they did a liver function test, the values were off the charts. She had a protein losing enteropathy.

 

So, hopefully putting your grey on a BP med will help with the hypertension. But I would ask for a liver function (not enzyme) test. The function test is not part of the regular chemistry panel.

 

 

[tbhounds]

Did they check his urine for protein? You could lose protein either through the kidney's (PLN) or through the gut-IBD (PLE). Waiting to hear about the blood work results.

[Batmom]

Might double-check about giving BP meds. 170-180 isn't that high for a greyhound in a vet's office. My vet would consider that normal.

[Bevd]

OMG!! Those are my boys legs! They did mention the possibility of steriods. The vet was not very encouraging about his prognosis. It's good to hear some positive results. What food did you give her? I've heard they hate the k/d by Hills. I've seen some home cook recipes for PLE. Thanks so much for the insights.

Ah yes, the lovely k/d from Hills

 

This was our first attempt at offering it to Buddy

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, she was less than impressed (and at £45+ UK pounds a bag, so was I at this point)

 

But, the vet said we could add cottage cheese or something else very low fat (maybe we used fat free yoghurt, I can't remember to be honest) and she did eat it once it had something mixed in.

[Guest Fasave]

Just heard back on the blood and urine work done yesterday. He definately has low protein as low albumin in his blood but interestingly, his creatine level from his urinalysis was at 1.6 (compare to previous 2, 4 & 6 readings). The test for liver were slight elevated which are not suprising based on what he's been through in the last week. I'm still a little nervous waiting until Wednesday to see the IM doc. I asked this vet if it were her dog, would she be comfortable waiting until Wednesday and she was a little vague. She said the situation still could become very serious if he's continuing to loss fluid so to keep my eyes open for more or different swelling, heavy breathing, change in appetite, etc. While the swelling doesn't seem less today, he did almost have a solid stool for the first time in a week and his energy is good tonight. Wednesday can't come soon enough. Thanks for all the suggestions. Keep them coming.

[tbhounds]

Did they find protein in the urine?? I'm guessing that your boy may have IBD/PLE. Hopefully the IM is comfortable treating IBD. He/she may recommend an endoscopy to take a peek in the GI tract and while there obtain biopsy samples (looking for "scary" cells). Greyhounds do have a bit lower protein levels than other breeds but, it sounds like your pups are even lower. Do you recall exactly what the Albumin level was and did your vet run a bile acids test? Is your dog currently taking any medications??

[Guest Fasave]

I don't recall the Albumin levels. They did not run a bile acids test. It was an e-vet visit so I'm not sure they look to do more than triage and then pass along to a specialist. He is currently on Enacard (Anapryl(sp?), I think) and they gave him a beta blocker high pressure med to take. Interestingly, his protein in his urine was in normal range when it's been elevated over the last six months. Fortunately I'm in the Boston area so there are several vet options for specialty purposes. I adopted this guy at six years of age and he had been on Ol' Roy Food for six months. It took me nearly a year to get his stools solid so an IBD diagnosis would not suprise me.

[Guest jerrybird]

Thinking of you and your pup. I hope that your visit with the IM vet tomorrow goes well. Waiting for an appointment like that is pure torture. How are things tonight?

[tbhounds]

Update??

[Guest jerrybird]

Just thinking about your pup and hoping all is well.

[Xan]

A lot of this is familiar to me, too, but I'm still in the mystery and tests stage, too, so all I can offer is sympathetic hugs and well-wishes!

[ahicks51]

If it is PLE, then you might want to read a post I made on the subject some weeks back.

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?s=&amp...t&p=3742778

 

I hope in the not-too-distant future to have equipment to test for antibodies to Klebsiella (and possibly pullulanase) such that individuals who are interested might be able to send me blood serum samples for diagnostic purposes. While there will still be the matter of treatment, a correlation between antibodies to klebsiella and/or pullulanase might be useful in terms of diagnosis.

 

My only clear-cut recommendation would be to feed foods with as little starch as possible.