Hemangiopericytoma

[Guest greytexplorer]

and what does it look like? anyone have a pic to share? what are treatment options?

thanks in advance

 

~Pat

[Meandmy]

Shadow had one removed a few months ago. It grew quickly on his right knee - about the size and shape of an egg under his skin. We weren't sure what it was until it was removed and biopsied (the vet at first thought it was a fatty tumor, until he aspirated it and saw unusual cells). The research I've done says they grow slowly, but this one seemed to appear over just a few days. Maybe it was growing slowly for some time, then sped up enough for me to notice it (I check my dogs over almost daily).

 

Other than removal with clean margins, the only other proven treatment is removal and radiation, but it takes *a lot* of radiation. Shadow is terrified of the vet, and the cost was exhorbitant, so we opted to not do radiation. There is also amputation, but that is extreme in most cases.

 

The bad news is that they weren't able to get clean margins on one side because it was right on his bone. The good news is that hemangiopericytomas don't usually metasticize, so they are, for the most part, localized tumors.

 

Once a dog has had one, they are more likely to have another and they will grow more quickly, often in the same spot. The damage of these tumors comes when they grow into, and misplace, other tissue in the area. Because Shadow's was right on the knee, the recovery was slow and painful. If another one grows in the same spot, we won't have it removed. He is 10 and has hind end weakness that also made it more difficult. In another dog, I most likely would have it removed again.

 

I hope this info is helpful for you. Feel free to PM me

Edited June 26, 2008 by Meandmy

[Guest greytexplorer]

oh ok, I think I understand

thanks!

[HopeForHounds]

This is the kind of cancer that Foxy had removed 4 years ago. Her regrowth only happened this past month.

 

There is another treatment that can be done after the tumor has been removed. A small amount of chemo drug is mixed with sesame oil and injected into the site while the dog is sedated. Ohio State has had good results with that.

 

Here is a site that describes it fairly well. http://www.marvistavet.com/html/hemangiopericytoma.html

 

We are opting not ot do anything this time around. Foxy is 13 1/2 and has LP with makes her a very risky surgical candidate. The tumor is near her elbow, but far enough below that it should not interfere with her mobility. Since it is painless and has a low risk of metastisis, we think the risks far outweigh any benefit to her.

 

If you need any other info, just PM me.

[Guest Fasave]

I've just been through two surgeries with my guy in the last six weeks. The first was done by my regular vet who thought it was a fatty deposit. We had noticed it over a year ago but only decided on surgery as it started to grow. It was on his front right leg and no more than an inch long. We tried aspirating it several times but was unable to get any cells. My undertanding is that fine needle aspirations don't do the trick at removing cells of this type. Imagine my suprise when the vet told me that he found suspicious tissue and took a couple samples and closed him back up. Once the results were in, we consulted with an oncologist and opted to try a second surgery. Fortunately we got clean margins but not large ones so we are evaluating next steps right now. The information here is what I've also been told. Localized, slow growing, doesn't normally spread to organs but can cause significant lameness in later stages. Best of luck with your pup but keep in mind it's a relatively managable type of cancer.

 

Thanks for the info on the chemo and sesame oil treatment. We have our next consult within the next few weeks. My guy is only 8.5 so this is an interesting topic.

 

Please keep us updated.

[Guest Snowy8]

Patty, keep me posted.

 

http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/hurd/index.php

[Guest RooRoo]

Greytexplorer, I'm assuming your pup has already had a surgery and the pathology results came back with the diagnosis? If so, then radiation would probably be what a veterinary oncologist would recommend. Chemo does not come into play since this type of soft tissue sarcoma is localized and chemo treats and effects the entire body, which isn't necessary. Your vet may also tell you that you can wait and see if something grows back and then have another surgery... of course this is something they would determine based on the size and location of the tumor, etc... I would definitiely seek out a vet whose specialty is veterinary oncology. They have at least 4 additional years of education and training in cancer than our "regular" vets do.

 

Like Favsave's pup, Rizzo (age 8.9) just had 2 surgeries in 5 weeks on his front limb between his elbow and "wrist". The first (in April) was to remove what they thought was a fatty deposit. The doctor was very surprised to learn from the pathology that it was hermangiopericytoma. Due to his idea that it was nothing in the first place, he admitted he didn't try to get margins during the surgery. So just over a month later a different, board certified surgeon with experience in skin grafting went in "aggressively" and removed as much as she could.

 

Her method (trying to getting large, clean margins) caused Rizzo to have to a skin graft (removed a large piece of skin from his side and transplant it onto the tumor site) because there wasn't enough skin to close the suture area. She was confident that she got large (3cm) margins but that wasn't to be the case when the results from that path came back. The margins were not clean and the cancer "tendrils" are too deep in the planes of the skin layers to do more. The site is healing nicely, thank goodness, but another surgery is not an option.

 

So, here we are 6 1/2 weeks post 2nd surgery and we are faced with the decision of doing 17 rounds of radiation therapy** or doing nothing (really waiting until there is another growth). We have an appointment next week with the oncologist to help us determine what we should do. The oncologist's phone recommendation (based on the pathology) to our local vet was to move forward with radiation. DH and I want to go back for a second consultation and ask more questions. We may possibly do a wait and see - and try to "catch" another growth when it's still small and then do radiation. It's hard to know if and when it will come back, it could be weeks, months or years. It's kind of a tricky decision really - you do a lot of guessing and weighing the odds.

 

I was devasted by the news this spring, but after talking with a friend who is going through the same thing with her grey and educating myslef about this form of cancer, I am more hopeful... as Favesav and MeandMy say, this type of C is almost always, slow moving and does not metastasize although I have read and the oncologist told us that it has a good chance of recurrence and each time it grows back it can be more deeply rooted.

 

**Here in Massachusetts, the course of radiation (which you must be completely committed to and not miss an appointment for 15 or 17 straight week days) is $4,500.00 and $5,000.00 respectively. Your pup is put under sedation each day for a few mintues and while generally it's not too painful the during the first week, by the 2nd-3rd week the site starts to become sensitive, hair loss and then around week 3-4 it is an open, red, inflamed, sore wound with weeping and then by week 5-6 it will scab over and heal.

 

Thanks Foxysmom for the info on the alternative treatment, I am going to check this out and bring the info with me to our appointment. I am also in the process of changing Rizzo's diet to boost his immune system and to provide his body with the nutrients it needs more than ever.

 

I wish you and your pup the best. Keep us posted as to what you decide to do. It's so hard to know if we're making the best decision but as the weeks move on I have become better at realizing (with the support of many great friends who love their greys like we do!) that whatever we do will be in Rizzo's best interest with all of our love and caring behind it.

 

 

 

 

[Rickiesmom]

My whippet Rickie has a tumour removed about a year ago from his right hind leg - it was diagnosed via needle aspirate. The vet, because of where it was, did not think he got clean margins, although he tried, and unfortunately did not stain the sample before sending to the pathology lab - the sample was somehow compromised in transit and the lab was unable to tell.

 

There is a small growth in the same area that was just found - we just went to a specialist yesterday who isn't sure it's a returning tumour, but did a needle aspirate - we should have the results today or Monday at latest, and will then decide what to do.

 

If it is another tumour we will likely have another surgery and I will ask the clinic's oncologist to contact OSU re. the chemo/sesame oil protocol that Foxysmom mentioned.

[Guest greytexplorer]

RooRoo & Snowy8----I don't think Ester has hemangio-----I was just very curious about this tumor, and wanted to learn more about it.

 

<BeginTH>

Ester does have a peculiar growth on the front bone of her right rear leg, between the "kneecap" and the "heel".

It's pink, about the size and shape of a pencil eraser, and I can now see 2 capillaries running thru/around it.

I'm thinking "strawberry birthmark" like you sometimes see on babies, but who knows?

Trip to vet next week!

<EndTH>

 

(TH= thread hijack)

[Guest Snowy8]

Phew...........Ester...if your mommy doesn't watch out...me & Jack are going to come down there with our big purse & kidnap both you & Mandy. he he he She can keep Dick Cheney...although he did tug at my heart.

[SanTanSnuggles]

My greyhound "Surprise", who just turned six in February 22, 2015 developed a lump on his inside lower left front leg (about the middle where there is not much muscle tissue. Doctor Chand, our vet at New Market Animal Hospital, MD removed the golf size growth and sent it out for lab test. He also removed an eraser size growth on the left side of his chest. He also removed an eraser size growth on his left side over the middle part of his rib cage. Apparently, they were not attached to muscle tissue or bones in any of the cases, but were of mixed tissuue . The wounds appear to have closed nicely. Stitches are to come out next week. Dr.Chand called to tell us that it was Hemangiopericytoma. He said that he thought "Surprise" would to well with about four or five treatments of Metronomic chemotherapy drugs in very small doses. I know next to nothing about these kinds of issues and joined Greytalk to learn first hand from others. He feels that he removed the lumps clearly leaving nothing behind.

 

Has anyone else had a greyhound who was treated this way? How successful would you say the treatment was?

 

If I understand this type of chemo correctly, it is pretty much concentrated and stays at the site area it is done in?

 

I have to ask him tomorrow if he is giving the dose only in the leg, or if he will be doing the small eraser spots also. In all fairness, we did not have much time to discuss this.

 

I have another gravely sick greyhound in his care who may have a degenerative disk disease, or a tumor in her spine or neck or brain. She can not stand on her back legs and walk. Snuggles is only five years old, So I know that I am not concentrating as well as I should. He also said that it could be a damaged disk, but that would require an MRI.

 

We just lost a different greyhound, named Heart Suit ten months ago with bone cancer at the age of five. She suffered for five months with seizures, until she began to limp. That is when The doctor at the Country vet hospital took x-rays and told us she had bone cancer. So we had to let her go

 

I did not want my heart to break too much, so I found Snuggles on pet finders and adopted her right away as she had such a beautiful smile. Snuggles was available for adoption because after racing 141 times, she broke her leg while racing. I wish I could afford the MRI to know if it is a repairable disk problem or the other bad things. But now I have to make a decision tomorrow that I do not want to make. If it were repairable, we could do the surgery, but if the news is bad, than we would have spent funds that we can use towards Surprises treatments. I wanted so much to give Snuggles a good life, as she worked so hard for her owners for so many years. I have a spouse who is a kidney transplant and a son who has CP. The greys are my joy in life. Now I hate the decision I must make without knowing if I am doing what is best for her.

 

Back to Surprise, are there any food things also that I should know about as we try to help that little guy.

 

 

[Walliered]

Where are you? I have the best neurologist in the world here in Savannah, Georgia. He just put disks BACK in my 10 year old greyhound. He had removed them about 2-3 years ago. Also, lost a greyhound to bone cancer and he was only 6.

[tbhounds]

Were clean margins achieved?? Clean deep margin too? If clean margins were obtained I personally wouldn't do any other treatment. If they grow back than you need to seek out further treatments. This type of tumor is not know to metastatsize-if and when they return they usually return at the edge of the scar. If for what ever reason further surgery is not an option there is an injectable chemo drug that can be injected directly into the tumor. If you seek a second option I high suggest to reach out to Dr Couto. You can consult with him over the internet.

http://www.coutovetconsultants.com

[Guest goofydog]

This is the cancer that took Get Em March of last year. It was in his right shoulder, and yes it does grow slowly at first. I had his removed and the pathology came back hemangio. The problem we had was that I didn't have it biopsied prior to removal. Once the report was back his vet explained that hemangio sends small tendrils down into the muscle so unless caught really early nearly impossible to get the entire thing. The research stated that it only has a 25% return rate so I still had hope. Damn thing resurfaced and amputation was the only option to make sure it was gone. Get Em was a few weeks short of his 12th birthday and I wasn't going to put hm through an amp at that stage.

 

I am praying that your vet did get really clean margins and that this is gone from your pups body. Sendings prayers.

[SanTanSnuggles]

Vet said he got clean margins. He is due i understand to get his first Chemo next Monday when the stitches are to come out. Did your Get Em have chemo?

If my dog was the same age as your dog when your dogs problem resurfaced, I would have done the right thing that you did.

 

My Ec Flirt had back issues at 13 yrs, so we had to help her move on and not be in pain. No matter how long our little buddies have been gone, we can never stop loving them, or how many greys we adopt, we love each one differently and never forget one. Ec Flirt -we adopted in 1989.

 

As a matter of fact 4 of the five greyhounds I adopted was sight unseen. I got one by going to one of the early rescue places and she picked her for me.

 

Three of my greyhounds, I got off the internet and just picked them up nearby. Never even ever saw their picture or anything. They were all sent to me by the owner through haulers that were going nearby, so I just met them on the road for two of them in a gas station. Stormy got hauled to Wheeling WVA, I walked up to the guard desk and they just handed him to me and left.

 

San Tan Snuggles I found on Pet Finders, drove to NJ to get her. She was the only one I seen a picture of in advance.I am going to miss her dearly. All I needed was to see her smile an was hooked.

 

I want to thank you for your prayers and i know that Surprise knows that you are praying for him too as he goes through this journey.

Pray a little pray for my Snuggles as she will probably be going to that rainbow place this week, if nothing changes for her.

Edited August 2, 2015 by SanTanSnuggles

[HoundDad]

Pray a little pray for my Snuggles as she will probably be going to that rainbow place this week, if nothing changes for her.

 

Please contact me at bob@greyhoundguy.com before making this decision.

[tbhounds]

With entirely clean margins I'm unsure as to why chemo is being considered--if this tumor returns they typically don't return for another 6-12 month many never return even with dirty margins. If it does return the injectable chemo is extremely effective.

[Guest goofydog]

Did your Get Em have chemo?

If my dog was the same age as your dog when your dogs problem resurfaced, I would have done the right thing that you did.

 

No, I didn't go the chemo route. After discussing his age and prognosis with his vet I opted not to put him through it. He was my medical hound, he had underlying toxoplasmosis (in his blood from eating feral cat poo) that cost him an eye, survived 2 other cancers and the usual wear & tear that comes with most any pet. He depended on me to take care of him until he was ready to start his next journey. He told me that it was time on March 13th, 2014 so I set him free.

 

Still praying for your pups and all who love them.

[JJNg]

Vet said he got clean margins. He is due i understand to get his first Chemo next Monday when the stitches are to come out.

 

Were all 3 growths that were removed hemangiopericytomas? To determine whether or not to do chemo, I would want to look at what grade the tumor is, and also how good the margins were. Hemangiopericytomas are a type of soft tissue sarcoma, and they are graded based on how aggressive the abnormal cells look when examined microscopically. Grade 1 or low grade tumors removed with clean margins rarely cause any further problems. Grade 3 or high grade tumors have a higher chance of metastasis and are much more likely to recur even if the margins are clean. Also, "clean" margins can be narrow or wide. Narrow margin can leave cancerous cells behind even if they appear to be clean. The wider the margin, the less chance of recurrence. In the locations you describe, it probably wasn't physically possible to get very wide margins.

 

Before committing to chemo, I would want to find out from your vet whether all 3 growths were hemangiopericytomas, what grade they were, and how wide were the margins. Also, I'm not sure what kind of chemo your vet is planning to do. "Metronomic chemo" is low dose oral chemo that is given long term, usually daily or every other day. Injecting small amounts of chemo at the site of the tumor (or the scar where the tumor was) is a different type, often called intralesional chemo. Dr. Couto recommends this intralesional chemo with a drug called 5-FU for soft tissue sarcomas with narrow or incomplete margins. Given the description, maybe that's what your vet is planning to do?

 

I have a whippet who had a low grade soft tissue sarcoma removed from the side of his elbow. Because of the location, the margins were very narrow, so we followed with the 5-FU injections under the scar. That was 2 years ago, and he's had no further problems. I had a foster greyhound who had an intermediate grade soft tissue sarcoma removed from his wrist with incomplete margins. The oncologist tried to do the 5-FU injections, but the skin was too tight to effectively administer enough chemo in the area for her to feel that it would be effective. We chose to put him on metronomic chemo to try to prevent recurrence.

[Koyotekyle]

Now I am worried. our 9 year older MIMI had a growth on her toe. the vet said it was not a problem, Now she has a Lump on her back leg on the same leg a the toe was removed. THe vet again said it was not a problem. How can you be sure

[tbhounds]

Now I am worried. our 9 year older MIMI had a growth on her toe. the vet said it was not a problem, Now she has a Lump on her back leg on the same leg a the toe was removed. THe vet again said it was not a problem. How can you be sure

Obtain the pathology report.

[SanTanSnuggles]

My regular vet removed the the two pencil eraser growths from his side and chest and the golf ball size one that was on his lower left leg. I think that he just had a pathology completed on the larger one and told me that it was a hemangiopericytomas. He did not give me a copy of the report. He said that he has had success with treating them with the site shots with four to five injections. How often are these four or five shots usually given (time between each one)? What is 5-FU? He did not mention this? The lump was in the area where there is not much fat on his leg. I did not receive any instructions as to the name of the chemo he was injecting or what to expect? all I know is what I have read on the internet, that there may be some pain? Is there concern to the environment when he goes? I read that the area may develop sores and loose hair or it may turn white? Any place that I could go on the net to receive valid information?

[JJNg]

I think that he just had a pathology completed on the larger one and told me that it was a hemangiopericytomas. He did not give me a copy of the report. He said that he has had success with treating them with the site shots with four to five injections. How often are these four or five shots usually given (time between each one)? What is 5-FU? He did not mention this? The lump was in the area where there is not much fat on his leg. I did not receive any instructions as to the name of the chemo he was injecting or what to expect? all I know is what I have read on the internet, that there may be some pain? Is there concern to the environment when he goes? I read that the area may develop sores and loose hair or it may turn white? Any place that I could go on the net to receive valid information?

 

Ask your vet for a copy of the report. Or at least ask what grade the tumor was. If he didn't tell you the name of the drug he is planning to inject or possible side effects, you need to talk to him about this before consenting to treatment. It would have been best to send off all 3 growths for pathology. If he didn't save or send off the smaller ones, the most you can do at this point is to watch very closely to see if they start to come back.

 

5-FU is a type of chemo, and it's the only one I'm familiar with injecting into the tumor or under the scar. The full name is 5-fluorouracil, and it is mixed with sterile sesame oil so that it stays at the site and doesn't get absorbed into the bloodstream. Dr. Couto developed the protocol while he was at Ohio State. The injections are usually given once a week. With my whippet, we did 4 injections, but we had to delay the last one because he developed irritated skin over the site, and we had to wait until it was healed before doing that last injection. They usually have to be sedated for the injections because it can be painful, and the shots have to be very precise since it is chemo.

 

With the 5-FU injections, I was told that there were no special concerns for the environment because it was such a small amount injected locally. Sorry, I don't know of any places on the Internet you can go for more info since Dr. Couto's protocol is not published anywhere, so most vets, even oncologists, don't know about it.

[SanTanSnuggles]

Injecting small amounts of chemo at the site of the tumor (or the scar where the tumor was) is called intralesional chemo. Dr. Couto recommends this intralesional chemo with a drug called 5-FU for soft tissue sarcomas with narrow or incomplete margins. Given the description, maybe that's what your vet is planning to do?

 

I think this sounds more like what the vet is doing, after talking to him when Surprise got his stitches removed. Chemo is to start Monday and Dr. Chad said he has to keep him for observation till the close of day. This will be his first of five. Is this a normal procedure to keep the greyhound for the day? What reactions should I expect from my dog in general, after getting this type of Chemo?. My vet is not as forthcoming as I would like..

 

I keep reading the word soft tissue sarcoma in posts, is that the same as Hemangiopericytoma? My vet only told my husband and I that the lump removed was of mixed tissue?

[tbhounds]

Personally, I would seek out a second opinion with an oncologist or an online consult with Dr Couto before moving forward with this.