Guest bigorangedog Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Hey guys, My boy Palu is 12.5 yrs old. Something is up with him, and we're not real sure what. So I'm looking for suggestions. Here are our symptoms: Yesterday (Tuesday) evening, vomited a couple times, very small amount, mostly bile. Didn't think much of it, because he's always tended to be kind of a 'recreational barfer' and didn't seem to feel bad otherwise. Still eating normally. Ate some breakfast this morning as usual, and went about his morning (consisting of lying around) and his early afternoon (more lying around). Then this afternoon around 2, I was sitting by him on the couch and noticed that his back leg was trembling somewhat. I thought maybe he had a little muscle cramp or his leg was asleep, so I rubbed it for a while. He didn't seem to care one way or the other, so I stopped and again didn't think too much of it. Then around 3, he abruptly got up off the couch. He seemed very off-balance, weak in the rear, and not in good control of his back legs. [Palu always limps on his left rear leg because of a broken hock that was set incorrectly at the track.] I went to him and held him steady. He was clearly upset, tucked his tail way up, started shaking, and continued to sway on his legs. He vomited a fair amount of more yellow bile. As I was holding him steady, trying to think what to do next, he started to pee. He seemed to want to go outside, so he drunkenly propelled himself out the door with me trying not to let him fall down. He was able to get around well enough to pee/poop/throw up some more outside. We got back in, he laid down, still somewhat agitated, but after a while went back to sleep. Took him to the vet this evening. They did basic bloodwork. His creatinines are a little high (1.8) but we knew that and have him on Science Diet g/d for his kidneys. Otherwise, normal. The vet suggested possible Vestibular disease, although we have no nystagmus (sporadic eye movements) and no head tilting. She told us to give him some Pepcid AC for the vomiting, and said we could give some Tramadol to see if any of the weakness was from pain. When we got home, he seemed relieved and better on his legs (although not perfect). But then an hour later, to go outside, he was real wobbly again and was holding his front right leg a little stiff. He is back inside and sleeping again now, after eating some dinner willingly. I am worried that he is has had a stroke. But I can't find anything that would help me differentiate between that and vestibular disease. So, what do you think? Stroke? Vestibular disease? At what point do we decide he needs an MRI? Any suggestions for how we ought to proceed with diagnosis or treatment? Palu was our first greyhound. We got him 7 years ago this month from Adopt a Greyhound Atlanta. And we loved him so much that today we have 15 greyhounds (9 adoptable!) in our house. MNGR is Palu's legacy. So we need him to be okay!! Thanks! Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rycezmom Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Stroke symptoms do not come and go intermittently. The only time we see intermittent unilateral stroke symptoms that resolve is with transient ischemic attacks or TIA's. Its hard to do a quick stroke assessment on a hound as opposed to a human. You can't really check for a drift or recognize the slurred speech in a hound. Stroke, like any other neurological problems are much easier to dianose in a human. For diagnosing in animals as well as humans its the physical exam that is going to tell you the most, second only to radiologic imaging. CT scans can quickly rule out hemorrhage and will occasionally show a tumor that may mimic a stroke. As I am not a diagnostician nor qualified to diagnose vet/animal issues (Not within my scope of practice) I have to refrain from such. Just on the general symptoms it sounds more like it could be vestibular. Edited April 3, 2008 by rycezmom Quote The more I see of man, the more I like dogs. ~Mme. de Staël Missing my Bridge Angels Ryce, Bo, Jim, Miss Millie, Miss Rose, Gustopher P Jones (Pimpmaster G), Miss Isabella and Miss Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigorangedog Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Ah! Okay. Great to know. So it sounds more like vestibular? Or something else? Thank you! Stroke symptoms do not come and go intermittently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest argolola Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I will pray for Palu. God bless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoduck Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 When our Oliver had a vestibular episode he also had the nystagmus. His episode lasted maybe 30 minutes or so and was ebbing by the time we got him to the e-vet. We were told we did not have to bring him in if he had another episode. Just make sure he did not over heat. We were told he most likely would have future episodes with gradually increasing duration. He did not have any further episodes. Several months later he did, however, have a stroke following a teeth cleaning and had to be put down. He was a month shy of 13. Hoping for the best for your Palu. Quote Freshy (Droopys Fresh), NoAh the podenco orito, Howie the portuguese podengo maneto Angels: Rita the podenco maneta, Lila, the podenco, Mr X aka Denali, Lulu the podenco andaluz, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Charlie the iggy, Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona3 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 When Hobbes had vestibular disease, he didn't have the head tilt. He vomited, seemed very wobbly walking and disoriented. It took several days for him to return to normal. It can be pretty scary during the first stages and sometimes another incident can occur. As suggested, watch for over-heating. Hobbes ran a high fever and had to be rushed to the vet for emergency care. You'll be able to tell as your grey would be looking very distressed. Good luck and hope Palu is feeling better soon. Quote Hobbes - April 2, 1994 to April 9, 2008-----Tasha - May 23, 2000 to March 31, 2013 Fiona - Aug 29, 2001 to May 5, 2014-----Bailey - March 22, 2001 to Jan 20, 2015 Zeke - June 1, 2004 - Jan 26, 2016----Callie - July 14, 2006 to July 27, 2019 Forever in my heart: Chooch, Molly, Dylan & Lucy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MZH Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Could he be having petit mal seizures? The drunkenness, vomiting, peeing, pooping, and agitation can happen with those too. We had a dog with glomerularnephritis who had those symptoms, even to the point of holding his front leg stiffly and curled up to his chest. We figured out the GN with an kidney ultrasound and a urine protein creatinine ratio plus a ton of other diagnostics leading to those two things. I hope it's none of the above for Palu, that it's one of the vestibular conditions, and that he's back to normal soon. Edited April 3, 2008 by MZH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 First his creatine is fine and he doesn't need to be on a kidney diet! I can email you the print outs from Dr. Feeman. I wonder if the lack of protein has anything to do with his symptoms? I know with Tootsie who did have vestibular, I add meat to her diet. Sending prayers. Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigorangedog Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 The Dr Stack info says that normal GH creatinine is .8-1.6....? http://www.greyhound-data.com/dir/393/Grey...d_Bloodwork.pdf We put him on the g/d because his bladder control is not great and he was peeing in the house more and more. He's not concentrating his urine as much as he should be. We've tested it, plus it's visibly clearer than the other dogs'. So vet thinks that we're seeing the beginnings of kidney problems. Why should the protein intake matter for vestibular? (Weird side note, my DH gets vestibular syndrome sometimes, complete with nystagmus. Occasionally out of the blue, but more often on the tail end of a cold/sinus thing...) BTW he is doing a little better today. Still fairly wobbly, but no more vomiting and is less upset. jen First his creatine is fine and he doesn't need to be on a kidney diet! I can email you the print outs from Dr. Feeman. I wonder if the lack of protein has anything to do with his symptoms? I know with Tootsie who did have vestibular, I add meat to her diet. Sending prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I can't tell you how many greyhounds have had the peeing problem and when put on antibiotics, it clears up. Many times doing a culture will find it, sometimes no. email me at Burpdog@msn.com Greyhound kidney issues are the most misdiagnosed, along with hypothyroid. Drives me batty. Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaGreys Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I can't tell you how many greyhounds have had the peeing problem and when put on antibiotics, it clears up. Many times doing a culture will find it, sometimes no. email me at Burpdog@msn.com Greyhound kidney issues are the most misdiagnosed, along with hypothyroid. Drives me batty. Wow, you just about quoted my vet. It's what he says all the time about kidney and thyroid issues with Greys. Hoping Palu feels better Quote Missing my little Misty who took a huge piece of my heart with her on 5/2/09, and Ekko, on 6/28/12 For the sick, the lost, and the homeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paulamariez Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Poor baby Palu! Keeping your sweet little hound in my thoughts and prayers for a quick recovery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hannahmom Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I just had a nasty misdiagnosis of kidney disease for Hannah because my ex-vet didn't know what she was seeing. PM me if you want to talk, and take Burpdog's offer of info - it was invaluable for me Tena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greyvettech Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Typically, from what I've been told, canines can not-per say- have a "stroke" because they have -a circle of willis- their brain is not like the human brain-Certainly, they can have neurological issues though- It sounds like idiopathic(they don't know why it happens) vestibular syndrome ..yes, with this, most times the animal will show signs of nystagmus but often times it can be so suddle that the Veterinarian cannot see it..in cats, you can actually flip them over and see nystagmus movement better if you are unsure or are having a hard time seeing it...not too easy to do with dogs though..... Hills g/d is a geriatric diet...if he is truly having problems with his kidney function I'm surprised your Veterinarian did not suggest Hills k/d??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fastdogs Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I'd have a spine x-ray done. It will help rule out disc issues/LS. Canine strokes are usually FCEs (fibrocartilaginous embolism). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenwinniesmom Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Hi Jen, I've been thinking about you lately, and wondering how you and your crew are doing? I'm sorry to hear that Palu is having problems. Wish I had some advice or experience with those symptoms, but can mostly offer prayers and good thoughts and white light for your special boy. Well, our Lacey had a few episodes of the vestibular disease, but they were relatively fleeting, though initially puzzling and upsetting, mainly because we'd just put down our little Florida Pit Bull that afternoon (probable stroke), and worried that Lacey might have gotten into something. So mostly, I'll send cyber hugs to Palu, and you too (and Lloyd and the rest of the gang). And Lydia is barking to Crisco that she loves him and misses him like crazy! Guess you're not going to GIG, are you? Quote Nancy, Mom to Evangelina and Kiva Missing Lacey, Patsy, Buster, my heart dog Nick, Winnie, Pollyanna, Tess, my precious Lydia, Calvin Lee, my angel butterfly Laila, and kitties Lily, Sam and Simon My Etsy shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/Catsburgandhoundtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest larock Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 We rushed our Walter to the vet Saturday night (actually Sunday 4:30AM) because we thought he was having a stroke. He could not keep his balance and was tipping over but seemed fine by the time we arrived at the clinic (40 minutes). The vet says it was "Geriatric Vestibular Symdrome", common among older aminals but that there are no damaging affects like those of a stoke . Scary to watch when you have no clue what is happening.... We've gone through a lot with Walter over the last few months and having just lost our Wardy in November I can tell you we were both a little freaked out by it. Thankfully he was fine all day yesterday and good this AM, like nothing happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rycezmom Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Typically, from what I've been told, canines can not-per say- have a "stroke" because they have -a circle of willis- their brain is not like the human brain-Certainly, they can have neurological issues though- Every human I know has a Circle of Willis too. Cant see why having a Circle of Willis would preclude a hound from having a stroke. More info please? Quote The more I see of man, the more I like dogs. ~Mme. de Staël Missing my Bridge Angels Ryce, Bo, Jim, Miss Millie, Miss Rose, Gustopher P Jones (Pimpmaster G), Miss Isabella and Miss Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laur Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I posted last month about my 8 yr old boy Gilbert. He had a stroke and is now recovering amazingly well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greyvettech Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Typically, from what I've been told, canines can not-per say- have a "stroke" because they have -a circle of willis- their brain is not like the human brain-Certainly, they can have neurological issues though- Every human I know has a Circle of Willis too. Cant see why having a Circle of Willis would preclude a hound from having a stroke. More info please? Ok, sorry, I stated that wrong....the canine circle of willis differs from that of a human..sorry I cannot go into specifics...... Not an expert on the subject just trying to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rycezmom Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Typically, from what I've been told, canines can not-per say- have a "stroke" because they have -a circle of willis- their brain is not like the human brain-Certainly, they can have neurological issues though- Every human I know has a Circle of Willis too. Cant see why having a Circle of Willis would preclude a hound from having a stroke. More info please? Ok, sorry, I stated that wrong....the canine circle of willis differs from that of a human..sorry I cannot go into specifics...... Not an expert on the subject just trying to help Something for me to research. Thanks Quote The more I see of man, the more I like dogs. ~Mme. de Staël Missing my Bridge Angels Ryce, Bo, Jim, Miss Millie, Miss Rose, Gustopher P Jones (Pimpmaster G), Miss Isabella and Miss Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.