Advice Needed Urgently....bloody Vomit....on Rimadyl

[Guest greytexplorer]

I had a german shepherd that was put on rimadyl for pain (he was an older dog) and he did fine.

Mandy is on previcox for her arthritis pain (1/2 tab daily) and she is doing very well.

Would previcox be an acceptable alternative for Bandit?

My guess is that Bandit's tummy is still hurting, and consequently doesn't want/need to eat, which is probably a good thing, to rest his tummy. But he does need fluids..........

Hugs to you and Bandit! Did you get some sleep?

 

~Pat

[fritofeet]

Prayers and healing thoughts for Bandit.

[jamngrey]

adding my prayers

[Guest alannamac]

He's drinking voluntarily and walked up to his food bowl and whined as though he was hungry!!! Hopefully this will stay down. I'll try him on a small amount of chicken and rice in an hour or so if he seems ok.

[Batmom]

:(

 

Hope he continues to do well and makes a rapid recovery. And I hope you can find a med that he can take to help him.

[Burpdog]

Carafate will really help. For the first day, I'd be tempted to feed ground chicken only or baby food.

[Guest suzye]

I'm glad you took him to the vet ASAP. NSAIDs are nothing to mess around with. He may need ulcer meds to help his stomach heal. I hope he makes a full recovery!

 

I have decided that no dog of mine will ever take NSAID unless it's to manage pain near the end. The other common side effects are liver and kidney damage. I think stomach ulceration is actually the most common side effect. The sad thing is you just won't know if your dog will end up as one of the few that has a bad reaction to it.

[robinw]

i'm so glad he's eating

[Guest MyCody]

My Leah has been on Rimadyl for the last week and I've stopped it as of today. Vet thought she might have a sprain or strain of her right shoulder, she has stopped yelping whenever she moves, but I just read about Rimadyl yesterday and I'm not happy with the possible side effects. If she starts having problems again I'll take her in for x-rays rather than give her the Rimadyl.

 

Good luck with Bandit and I hope he eats and keeps it down.

 

Terry

[Guest EmilyAnne]

So I think I remember you saying your vet was the one to observe the arthritis? How bad of arthritis are you observing in your grey? Does your vet seem to feel that after a certain age dogs should be on Rimadyl? My Riley is 12, a little stiff when he gets up, but other than that is fine, and even bounces, runs and plays, so I have him on absolutely no meds at all. He has always been a good weight and I think that we are reaping the rewards for that in his old age. (Riley is not a grey by the way, but he is a dog)

Edited December 26, 2007 by EmilyAnne

[Guest alannamac]

So I think I remember you saying your vet was the one to observe the arthritis? How bad of arthritis are you observing in your grey? Does your vet seem to feel that after a certain age dogs should be on Rimadyl? My Riley is 12, a little stiff when he gets up, but other than that is fine, and even bounces, runs and plays, so I have him on absolutely no meds at all. He has always been a good weight and I think that we are reaping the rewards for that in his old age. (Riley is not a grey by the way, but he is a dog)

 

Bandit's just kind of "creaky". There's a lot of stretching involved after having laid down, and quite a bit of limping until he's been moving a while. He does have corns, which contribute to this, but in the first few days while he was on the Rimadyl, I realized how free and lively he was feeling, as though he was finally out from under a cloud of mild chronic pain.

My vet had his training on greyhounds (unfortunately they were the main animal donated for medical training in Colorado at the time...from the racetracks)...so he's got a very keen eye for greyhound gaits and recognized the change in Bandit, while I was more blind to the issue, as I was watching it progress so slowly on a daily basis. He did not recommend that all dogs of a certain age be on anti-inflammatories, he just recommended it for Bandit as he saw symptoms of trauma related arthritis. The initial prescription was to treat a sharp pain from an injury he'd just received, not the arthritic symptoms.

Really after all of this, I'd say try anything else (exercise in water pools, acupuncture, chondroitin-glucosamine etc) prior to trying an NSAID. Many people have said they've had no troubles with the NSAIDs but those who have had troubles, had realtively BIG troubles, sometimes death.

In hindsight, I'd say be really careful and research everything and ask about experiences of others in this forum before you try a treatment.

 

Should've also added, Bandit had a small meal of chicken rice and water, and it's staying down!!! YEEAH!

I think we've turned the corner!

Thanks to everyone for your help. I don't know what I would have done without your advice and support!

[Guest EmilyAnne]

Yeah I too am inclined to try anything else before meds if possible, but sometims the meds do become necessary. My Alfalfa was who was senstive to a lot of arthritis meds, did best on Metacam. Sometimes a combination of both alternative plus conventional treatments/medicine works out best.

 

So glad to hear Bandit is on hs way to recovery!!!

[Jackandgrey]

ALL medication has the potential to cause adverse side effects. Not all dogs or people will experience side effects or will experience serious side effects. It is always essential to weigh the potential risks to benefits of all drug therapy. NSAIDS are an extremely useful group of medications but they do have risks and occasionally serious ones in both humans and dogs. It is always important to be informed users - to neither use or avoid the drugs thoughtlessly.

I am so glad you were on top of things with your baby and he is doing so much better now

[SAVED2]

I found this on the internet. it's worth taking the time to read it.

http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html

 

We will NEVER use it again! Our friends grey died while on it !

sharon

[Neighsayer]

Eating is good!

[Guest gomiesmom]

Just got home from e-vet and am too wired to sleep now..... Bandit's probably going to be fine, and they think it's an ulcer.....liver enzyme tests were fine, and they did bloodwork and said all was normal for a greyhound. However, I've just sat down with Dr. Stack's info on bloodwork for greys, and Bandit's white blood cell count is quite high for a grey....although normal for most other breeds (he's at 9.2....Dr. Stack's article says 3.5-6.5 is normal for greys, 6.0-17.0 normal for other breeds).

Well, we've been given antibiotics, a med to coat the stomach, and antacids(misoprostal, metronidazole and carafate)....plus bland diet orders (although Bandit had no interest in food today)

We'll see what happens.

My wallet's a lot lighter, but I feel much relieved at taking Bandit in asap.

Thank you all for your advice and good wishes.

 

I am glad Bandit is o.k. pretty scary!....So have you asked the vet why they think White blood cells are high? The same thing happened in our 3 yr old boy earlier this month. In for bloodwork and the printout showed WBC at 11. something and Stacks articles says that is way above normal for Greys. When I asked the vet, and showed her a printout of Stacks stuff ( probably not the best idea, but I want the best care for Gomer) she sort of dismissed it as a control type group of studied dogs, etc..... I surely did not get a sufficient answer, really not one at all, in my opinion. Just wondering if you got any answers...

thanks.

[Trudy]

Rimadyl is like any other drug in the sense that you need to figure out what the possible side effects are and is the chance that they could happen worth the good the drug could do.

 

Many drugs for humans have a side effect of death.

 

 

I did a poll a while ago about Prednisone. A very very common drug to be given to dogs on GT. My vet was against giving it to Ryan - he's seen too many bad side effects in greyhounds. Ryan's specialist had no issues giving it to Ryan and said he really needed it. So we tried it. One dose and Ryan had a nasty bloody ulcer and for a month he had to take Pepcid and another one as well as 10 days of carafat. Ryan can not have pred again - and he wasn't even started at a super high dose, but many dogs also have no issues with it.

It is a chance we take by medicating our dogs. You know the side effects and know what to watch for.

[Guest alannamac]

Just got home from e-vet and am too wired to sleep now..... Bandit's probably going to be fine, and they think it's an ulcer.....liver enzyme tests were fine, and they did bloodwork and said all was normal for a greyhound. However, I've just sat down with Dr. Stack's info on bloodwork for greys, and Bandit's white blood cell count is quite high for a grey....although normal for most other breeds (he's at 9.2....Dr. Stack's article says 3.5-6.5 is normal for greys, 6.0-17.0 normal for other breeds).

Well, we've been given antibiotics, a med to coat the stomach, and antacids(misoprostal, metronidazole and carafate)....plus bland diet orders (although Bandit had no interest in food today)

We'll see what happens.

My wallet's a lot lighter, but I feel much relieved at taking Bandit in asap.

Thank you all for your advice and good wishes.

 

I am glad Bandit is o.k. pretty scary!....So have you asked the vet why they think White blood cells are high? The same thing happened in our 3 yr old boy earlier this month. In for bloodwork and the printout showed WBC at 11. something and Stacks articles says that is way above normal for Greys. When I asked the vet, and showed her a printout of Stacks stuff ( probably not the best idea, but I want the best care for Gomer) she sort of dismissed it as a control type group of studied dogs, etc..... I surely did not get a sufficient answer, really not one at all, in my opinion. Just wondering if you got any answers...

thanks.

 

Sure yes, there were two responses, one that a possible secondary infection had set in to the ulcered area and the other, that the body simply sensed somthing was wrong and was sending in all repair cells available. I think that's why my vet prescribed antibiotics...even though Bandit's temp was not elevated, he suspected that a secondary infection might be present and didn't want to take a chance on it.

 

 

Just got home from e-vet and am too wired to sleep now..... Bandit's probably going to be fine, and they think it's an ulcer.....liver enzyme tests were fine, and they did bloodwork and said all was normal for a greyhound. However, I've just sat down with Dr. Stack's info on bloodwork for greys, and Bandit's white blood cell count is quite high for a grey....although normal for most other breeds (he's at 9.2....Dr. Stack's article says 3.5-6.5 is normal for greys, 6.0-17.0 normal for other breeds).

Well, we've been given antibiotics, a med to coat the stomach, and antacids(misoprostal, metronidazole and carafate)....plus bland diet orders (although Bandit had no interest in food today)

We'll see what happens.

My wallet's a lot lighter, but I feel much relieved at taking Bandit in asap.

Thank you all for your advice and good wishes.

 

I am glad Bandit is o.k. pretty scary!....So have you asked the vet why they think White blood cells are high? The same thing happened in our 3 yr old boy earlier this month. In for bloodwork and the printout showed WBC at 11. something and Stacks articles says that is way above normal for Greys. When I asked the vet, and showed her a printout of Stacks stuff ( probably not the best idea, but I want the best care for Gomer) she sort of dismissed it as a control type group of studied dogs, etc..... I surely did not get a sufficient answer, really not one at all, in my opinion. Just wondering if you got any answers...

thanks.

 

Sure yes, there were two responses, one that a possible secondary infection had set in to the ulcered area and the other, that the body simply sensed somthing was wrong and was sending in all repair cells available. I think that's why my vet prescribed antibiotics...even though Bandit's temp was not elevated, he suspected that a secondary infection might be present and didn't want to take a chance on it.

[Guest alannamac]

Rimadyl is like any other drug in the sense that you need to figure out what the possible side effects are and is the chance that they could happen worth the good the drug could do.

 

Many drugs for humans have a side effect of death.

 

 

I did a poll a while ago about Prednisone. A very very common drug to be given to dogs on GT. My vet was against giving it to Ryan - he's seen too many bad side effects in greyhounds. Ryan's specialist had no issues giving it to Ryan and said he really needed it. So we tried it. One dose and Ryan had a nasty bloody ulcer and for a month he had to take Pepcid and another one as well as 10 days of carafat. Ryan can not have pred again - and he wasn't even started at a super high dose, but many dogs also have no issues with it.

It is a chance we take by medicating our dogs. You know the side effects and know what to watch for.

 

Yes I agree....I'm afraid I accepted my vet's advice blindly without asking about side effects or what to watch for. All I knew was to administer with food. In future, I will request an information sheet just the same as we expect at the pharmacy with our prescriptions! Each animal is different in sensitivity and will react in their own unique manner and we need to know what may be cause for alarm....and by golly it would be helpful to know what to do when those things occur, and have a plan ahead of time just in case.

[Guest Sassy]

All medications, whether for dogs or humans, have the potential for side effects. Often the majority of users do fine with no ill effects, but there are a few who don't do will. NSAIDS, for both humans and animals, provide relief from aches and pains allowing most users to have normal lifestyle. These drugs are known for their potential to cause stomach problems. With LONG-TERM use or OVERDOSE, there is a high risk for kidney or liver trouble. ALL drugs also have the potential to mix poorly with other drugs, and unfortunately, NSAIDS are pften mixed with other drugs. For example, most humans do quite well taking aspirin and/or ibuprofen (both NSAIDS)- no ill effects; however, even among humans, there are a few folks who have problems stomaching these drugs or who develop issues with long-tem use. It makes no sense to withhold pain relief and the possibility of a comfortable, normal life from anyone (dogs included) because there is a risk (always a small one with any drug). If risk is a problem then why administer drugs at all? Perhaps everyone taking aspirin or ibuprofen should stop...

 

I am sorry that Bandit and you had such a rough time. Sending lots of well wishes to you both.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Sassy

[Burpdog]

It makes no sense to withhold pain relief and the possibility of a comfortable, normal life from anyone (dogs included) because there is a risk (always a small one with any drug). If risk is a problem then why administer drugs at all? Perhaps everyone taking aspirin or ibuprofen should stop

 

I hesitated to answer this because I don't want the focus off Bandit, however....

 

Two things:

 

the risk is not small with NSAIDs, definetely underplayed in education and improperly administered many times--without blood work and without handing out the product insert. As the FDA says: veterinarians are the weakest link because they will not do what they are suppose to do. It took years and a class action law suit to get Pfizer to produce a product insert. Now, to get the vets to hand it out.

 

many dogs are given drugs with potential serious side effects when there are alternative methods to treat the condition, and many dogs are treated without a diagnosis.

 

If your dog died from one of these drugs, you might reconsider your position. As with any drug, know the potential side effects and get the product insert!

 

Sending prayers for Bandit. Get blood work done in a week or so to make sure everything is ok.

 

for Eliza and all the rimadyl dogs......

 

[silverfish]

I hesitate to jump in here again, but I do feel there should be a balanced view.

 

A dog which is exhibiting noticeable signs of pain is in a LOT of pain, not just a little. Dogs are hard-wired not to show pain until it is severe. We call our dogs wimps because they scream at the slightest provocation, but in fact even greyhounds can be pretty stoic about chronic pain, it's just acute pain which seems to set them off.

 

In my humble opinion as someone who has worked as an animal nurse, albeit many years ago, if a vet prescribes pain killers or anti-inflammatory meds, then there is a need for them. Yes there is a risk with NSAIDs, just as there is a risk with antibiotics, pred, anaesthetic agents and pretty much any registered drug you care to name. Even OTC drugs. Even natural products. I am seriously nervous whenever I'm prescribed antibiotics because I've had bad reactions to so many, including life-threatening reactions, but this is not a good reason to advise others never to take antibiotics.

 

I've had dogs on Rimadyl with no problems. I've had one dog who was put on Rimadyl and didn't get along so well on it - he vomited, so we changed it to Metacam. Now, a lot of people are quite happy to put their dogs on Metacam, saying it's much safer, but in fact Metacam is simply another NSAID - it's just that because it IS a different one, some dogs who react badly to Rimadyl will do OK on Metacam. I do OK on sulphonamides, but penicillin family could kill me. Even with Metacam, I have to keep the dose low and we've had to add an acid-reducer so that Jack's stomach doesn't play up. We keep a close eye on him, but if he's not on Metacam, he most certainly suffers pain.

 

Bottom line is that we're not vets, even the most informed of us. Yes, it's good to be aware, and yes, it's good to question the vets' advice, but in the end, they usually DO know a little more than we do.

 

When medicating our animals, whatever drug they're on, it's important for us all to be alert. If the animal - dog, cat, horse or whatever - begins to show unusual behaviour of any kind, it is up to US to note it, and ring the vet ASAP to check whether it's a possible side-effect and if we should stop the drug. If the unusual behaviour is potentially dangerous, such as vomiting, bloody diarrhoea, neurological symptoms (shaking, circling, vocalising, lack of co-ordination), signs of internal bleeding (pale gums) etc, then you stop the drug first and THEN ring the vet.

 

Looks like the OP on this thread was vigilant and did exactly the right thing. Hopefully, threads like this will keep us all aware of what to watch for - and that drugs are not the innocuous cure-alls that we might otherwise believe, but I also hope that they won't scare people into refusing to take the vets' advice and give their dogs the meds they actually do need.

 

Not saying those who disagree with me are wrong, just that there is another viewpoint.

 

 

 

 

[Jackandgrey]

I hesitate to jump in here again, but I do feel there should be a balanced view.

 

A dog which is exhibiting noticeable signs of pain is in a LOT of pain, not just a little. Dogs are hard-wired not to show pain until it is severe. We call our dogs wimps because they scream at the slightest provocation, but in fact even greyhounds can be pretty stoic about chronic pain, it's just acute pain which seems to set them off.

 

In my humble opinion as someone who has worked as an animal nurse, albeit many years ago, if a vet prescribes pain killers or anti-inflammatory meds, then there is a need for them. Yes there is a risk with NSAIDs, just as there is a risk with antibiotics, pred, anaesthetic agents and pretty much any registered drug you care to name. Even OTC drugs. Even natural products. I am seriously nervous whenever I'm prescribed antibiotics because I've had bad reactions to so many, including life-threatening reactions, but this is not a good reason to advise others never to take antibiotics.

 

I've had dogs on Rimadyl with no problems. I've had one dog who was put on Rimadyl and didn't get along so well on it - he vomited, so we changed it to Metacam. Now, a lot of people are quite happy to put their dogs on Metacam, saying it's much safer, but in fact Metacam is simply another NSAID - it's just that because it IS a different one, some dogs who react badly to Rimadyl will do OK on Metacam. I do OK on sulphonamides, but penicillin family could kill me. Even with Metacam, I have to keep the dose low and we've had to add an acid-reducer so that Jack's stomach doesn't play up. We keep a close eye on him, but if he's not on Metacam, he most certainly suffers pain.

 

Bottom line is that we're not vets, even the most informed of us. Yes, it's good to be aware, and yes, it's good to question the vets' advice, but in the end, they usually DO know a little more than we do.

 

When medicating our animals, whatever drug they're on, it's important for us all to be alert. If the animal - dog, cat, horse or whatever - begins to show unusual behaviour of any kind, it is up to US to note it, and ring the vet ASAP to check whether it's a possible side-effect and if we should stop the drug. If the unusual behaviour is potentially dangerous, such as vomiting, bloody diarrhoea, neurological symptoms (shaking, circling, vocalising, lack of co-ordination), signs of internal bleeding (pale gums) etc, then you stop the drug first and THEN ring the vet.

 

Looks like the OP on this thread was vigilant and did exactly the right thing. Hopefully, threads like this will keep us all aware of what to watch for - and that drugs are not the innocuous cure-alls that we might otherwise believe, but I also hope that they won't scare people into refusing to take the vets' advice and give their dogs the meds they actually do need.

 

Not saying those who disagree with me are wrong, just that there is another viewpoint.

Yes this is what I tried to say earlier. Clearly far less eloquently than you just did.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

A dog which is exhibiting noticeable signs of pain is in a LOT of pain, not just a little. Dogs are hard-wired not to show pain until it is severe. We call our dogs wimps because they scream at the slightest provocation, but in fact even greyhounds can be pretty stoic about chronic pain, it's just acute pain which seems to set them off.

 

This can also mask harmful side effects from Rimadyl our greys may be experiencing until too late. This is what happened to my frend's dog. Her dog died from internal bleeding from Rimadyl. By the time they knew something was definately wrong, it was too late. They had suspected something wrong a little earlier, and took their dog to the vet, but the vet said everything was ok. My Alfalfa who always had an excellent appetite, would stop eating when on Rimadyl, which told me the Rimadyl was probably really harming him, (especially since dogs tend to hide it as much as they can) although my vet said the bloodwork was fine.

[Guest alannamac]

Yes, unfortunately bloodwork does not show everything. Bandit is on the mend and just had his first poop...... still black and tarry so there's still some bleeding going on somewhere (I feel like a young Mom again talking about baby diapers ) His bloodwork did not show much other than the elevated white blood cell count, but the black tarry diarrhea, no appetite and the blood in his vomit spoke volumes. I think this stuff is really hard on the GI tract, and according to what I've read is an anti-coagulant as are many NSAIDs and aspirin.

 

My earlier comments were from someone who was frightened and in shock. I did not mean to turn everyone off of NSAIDs, just to suggest that they try gentler alternatives first, and PLEASE ask for and read the side-effect sheet. Many people in this forum have used this med with no difficulty whatsoever. But, I was shocked to see that for Rimadyl 1 in 10,000 animals would go into kidney and or liver failure at the recommended dosages, and then the instant death thing really threw me......but as someone here said, when your animal is in pain, your first response is to fix it, and your vet usually has a great head for these things....mine certainly did, I just had the misfortune of this happening over the holidays where I could not call for a consult when I was beginning to wonder about this medication. Thank heavens for this forum, and thank heavens for those night owls who were up at 1am to counsel me when I was loosing it!

 

Best wishes to all for a happy new year