Imidocarb Injection

[ZoomDoggy]

Chancy got a subcue injection of Imidocarb yesterday. I'm asking this because today I've read that this shot should be given in the muscle. What have been other folks' experiences with this injection? Subcue or IM?

 

Also, I've read about the possible side-effects, and was wondering how many others's pups reacted poorly to the shot...

[Burpdog]

2002 Veterinary Clinical Pathology Clerkship Program

 

Current chemotherapeutic agents used to treat canine babesiosis are incapable of completely eliminating the disease; they only are capable of limiting mortality and the severity of clinical signs (2). Two injections of Imidocarb diproprionate at 5.0 to 6.6 mg/kg given subcutaneously or intramuscularly at an interval of 2 to 3 weeks are reputed to be effective (8). Another possible treatment is a single intramuscular injection of Dimenazene aceturate at a dosage of 5 mg/kg (2). For a more exhaustive list of potential antiparasitic drugs, consult table 77-3 in Greene's Infectious Diseases of the Dog and Cat (11). Supportive therapy such as intravenous fluids and blood transfusions should be employed when necessary.

 

It's a nasty injection

[Guest mandm]

Mine got 2 shots IM last Fall. No reaction other than diarrhea and vomiting immediately after the injections and a remarkable increase in energy within days.

[ZoomDoggy]

I've read that the Dimenazine is for B. gibsoni (which I understand to be more rare), and that Imidocarb is for B. canis vogeli. Chancy is also on Doxy as of this am. We don't have test results back yet, but due to Chancy's condition and platelet count, we opted to treat as though positive for now. My understanding is Dimenazine is an even more dangerous injection than Imidocarb.

 

Either way, the shot was awful, and I can't tell if Chancy's declining in general, or if she's having an adverse reaction to the shot. She's panting harder today than yesterday, and is more wobbly on her feet.

 

The vet is due to call me any time now.

 

Mine got 2 shots IM last Fall. No reaction other than diarrhea and vomiting immediately after the injections and a remarkable increase in energy within days.

 

Thankfully no vomiting, but Chancy had almost immediate diarrhea after the shot. I couldn't believe it could even affect her that fast! It was better this am, but not "normal" yet.

[LadyBailey]

Chancy got a subcue injection of Imidocarb yesterday. I'm asking this because today I've read that this shot should be given in the muscle. What have been other folks' experiences with this injection? Subcue or IM?

 

Also, I've read about the possible side-effects, and was wondering how many others's pups reacted poorly to the shot...

 

 

It should be given intramuscular. Our vet made the mistake of giving it sub Q and here were the results.

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showto...9&hl=imizol

[ZoomDoggy]

Holy cow, that looks awful! Do you think that was an unusual reaction specific to Bailey? Like an allergic reaction?

 

You scared me, so I tried to find Chancy's injection site. I watched it being given SubQ between her shoulderblades, but I see no sign of the spot now. Her fur is very thick for a grey. Of course it's been less than 24 hours too...

[LadyBailey]

Sorry, didn't mean to scare you but I wanted to let you know that this was our experience with the drug. She didn't show any signs/side effects of anything until a week after the shot... when I noticed some hair falling out... upon inspection, we saw the ulceration.

 

It outlines this side effect in the drug write up, so it wasn't just a freak episode with Bailey...They note that it happened on the first shot at the highest dose - but she wasn't given the highest dose - just the normal dose for her weight... but it still effected her...

 

"Imizol® caused pain on injection in nearly all animals, regardless of dose. One injection site reaction (ulceration of injection site) occurred at the highest dose (9.9 mg/kg). Injection site reactions (swelling) after the second injection of Imizol were present in 4 out of the 10 dogs which received the lowest dose (2.2 mg/kg) and in all of the dogs which received the higher doses of Imizol. The dog that developed the injection site ulceration after the first dose of 9.9 mg/kg Imizol also developed injection site ulceration after the second dose of 9.9 mg/kg Imizol."

 

she never did get the second shot and is bald as can be in that spot today. It totally fried her skin and it's soft and hairless as can be in that area.

Edited August 28, 2007 by LadyBailey

[Guest mandm]

Thinking back, my 3 YO (at the time) greyhound was wiped out most of the day after the first shot. He spent the day in bed. Recovery was faster after the 2nd shot, several hours.

 

I think it is the Gibsoni variety of Babesia that cannot be completely eliminated. As I understand it, babesia Canis, the type most common to greyhounds, is curable.

[Burpdog]

Apparently there is some difference of opinion as to where the shot is given:

 

Canine Tick Disease FAQ

 

Babesiosis: The current drug of choice, Imizol® (generic name- Imidocarb Dipropionate), was FDA approved (11/97). It's success rate as stated in research papers is 95 - 98%. While Imizol is the least toxic of all the anti-babesial drugs, potential side effects that can occur within one hour of injection include: pain or irritation at injection site, nausea with vomiting, excessive drooling and salivation, diarrhea, and muscle tremors and twitching. Imizol could potentially cause nephrotoxicity in a dehydrated dog. At least one death of a greyhound has been attributed to Imizol injection. A reduction in side effects has been seen by injecting the Imizol subcutaneously, rather than into the muscle

 

Treatment - tick diseases

 

 

Imizol

 

Imizol (Imidocarb dipropionate) is used in the treatment of Babesiosis canis and off-label to treat E. canis. It is usually administered in a series of two shots given two weeks apart. Cautions on the label about its use for dogs with impaired lungs, liver or kidneys should be noted and taken into account. There is no body of evidence so far to indicate that Imizol is effective against any strain of ehrlichiosis other than E. canis but it's certainly worth a try if time is of the essence or the dog cannot take doxycycline.

 

Imizol is given either sub-Q (under the skin) or intramuscularly. Note, however, it burns. Vets who have not used it should be aware that the dog will have an easier time of it if the needle is changed after the Imizol is drawn up into the syringe so that there is no Imizol on the needle to touch and burn the skin.

Most dogs have no problem with it beyond a little drooling and an initial yelp of outrage as the shot is given.

 

One advantage to the use of Imizol, either with or instead of doxycycline, is that it may take care of a cross infection with babesiosis.

 

Cross infections of one TBD with another are unfortunately common

[Guest mandm]

Since Imizol can also be used to treat Ehrlichia Canis, could you skip the Doxy? Since it is so upsetting to the stomach. And since b. Canis and e. Canis are the most likely TBDs for greyhounds.

 

I think I read on your other thread that you were also going to administer Doxy. But maybe I have that wrong.

[Madeara]

Oh crap I hope that reaction does not happen to Chancy I would not administer the Doxy either but I would also be afraid of the 2nd injection.

 

Who is going to help this dog?????? Maybe another vet for a 2nd opinion??

[ZoomDoggy]

Chancy normally has a "stomach of iron" and has never had a bowel problem, even during the worst of her worm infestation when I first got her two years ago. My vet feels that using the two in conjunction is the best way to go, and what I have read supports this as well. Just got off the phone with the vet, and we may try the shot of atropine before the next imidocarb inj, to minimize side-effects. The vet also said if Chancy doesn't seem to perk up at all by tomorrow, we may go ahead and add Prednisone to the mix, in case it's an autoimmune problem. I know it's a lot to throw at my poor ol' gal in a short time, but my vet and I agree that we must act quickly considering the state she's in.

 

I did also ask the vet just now about subQ vs IM, and his feeling was that since the label said it could be used either way, and given Chancy's low platelet count, he didn't want to risk a bleed in the muscle. I just have to hope Chancy doesn't react the way Bailey did.

 

Basically the vet re-confirmed that we are just trying to "hold the line", preventing her symptoms from getting worse (and if we're lucky, make them better) while we try to figure out what the actual problem is.

 

Thank you everyone for your experiences thus far. I really appreciate the info.

[ZoomDoggy]

Oh crap I hope that reaction does not happen to Chancy I would not administer the Doxy either but I would also be afraid of the 2nd injection.

 

Who is going to help this dog?????? Maybe another vet for a 2nd opinion??

 

FWIW, I have faith that this vet is the right guy for the job. I've seen a lot of vets around town, and so far this guy has impressed me the most.

 

ETA: ... I should add that I am not easily impressed.

Edited August 28, 2007 by ZoomDoggy

[Madeara]

I sure hope so it is a lot for Chancy to endure

[fritofeet]

I've had 3 dogs that have had the intermuscular shot, and usually by the end of the day they are feeling better. I've seen it come out of both ends and the dog not be very perky for the day, but usually are feeling much better the next. These dogs just had the imdocarb and no antibiotics.

Diesel cried when he was shot and threw up as soon as we got home, slept most of the day and didn't pant a lot. (Both times.)

Lloyd looked at the vet like "What ever did I do to you?" His nose dripped, and he didn't eat most of the day, slept a lot and the next morning tore it up in my front yard like nobody's business. This is a dog that couldn't stand for more than 10 min because he was so tired and underweight. 2nd shot, he acted like nothing at all happened and wanted a cookie when we got home.

Emma cried the GSOD, and had a drippy nose, threw up on the vet and lost the other end on the way out to the car. I had to sweet talk the vet into letting me take her home instead of leaving her there for observation. She did pant most of the morning and laid in the sun in the yard and wanted to be left alone. The second shot she took much better, still threw up in the yard-but no other signs of discomfort.

 

I don't know the whole story on Chancy's symptoms, but we are keeping you guys in our good thought pile.

I hope she is feeling better and you are too.

[ZoomDoggy]

It's been just over 24 hours since the shot, and honestly I see no improvement in the symptoms that led us to try the shot. I know I shouldn't expect a miracle, but it's hard not to be disappointed when I hear how fast other dogs have benefitted from it. What it means to me is that Babesia is likely not Chancy's problem.

[onrushpam]

We've given Imizol (Imidocarb) to a lot of dogs. The first one we did reacted with the GSOD. After that, we learned to change needles from drawup to injection and none of the others have even noticed it. We've not had any throw up or have any other noticeable side effects. In most cases, we have seen improvement of symptoms within 24 hours. But, in a few cases, where the dogs were terribly debilitated, it has been slow going on the improvement front.

 

I have a very ill dog right now. My big Al has several symptoms that led us to suspect tick disease. We did a full titer panel, including all the "off brand" varieties of Erlichia (we live next to a farm with a lot of horses). All came back negative! Damn it! I was HOPING something would show positive, so we'd know what is wrong with my Big Al. He's going down hill fast and we have NO idea what the problem is.

[ZoomDoggy]

He's going down hill fast and we have NO idea what the problem is.

 

God I know that feeling. I'm sorry you're going through it too.

 

I did read somewhere about changing the needle. I'll certainly mention that to the vet for future reference. Thankfully, he is pretty open-minded about the things I gather by extensive reading & surfing.

[Greytlady94]

It's been just over 24 hours since the shot, and honestly I see no improvement in the symptoms that led us to try the shot. I know I shouldn't expect a miracle, but it's hard not to be disappointed when I hear how fast other dogs have benefitted from it. What it means to me is that Babesia is likely not Chancy's problem.

 

Chancy's vet seems pretty responsive from what you have posted, so try to be upbeat with Chancy and patient with the meds. With a very low platelet count It does take a while, and that is what Chancy needs the Doxy for. Sending prayers.

[gracegirl]

Nothing new to add from me but Grace's titer did come back positive for Babesia and we treated her back in January. After all of the research and reading I did the vet left it up to me to decided whether I wanted the shot IM or sub-q. I chose IM, which is what this vet does unless someone brings it up otherwise. I also insisted he change the needle, and insisted I watch him change it. Grace gave a little whine with the first shot and was lethargic all day. The second shot got the GSOD, shaking, panting like crazy, and a new found fear of the vet. She is still terrified of the vet, any vet...must be a similar smell. With the second shot her temperature was elevated and she panted a lot but we are still not sure if it was the stress or the side effects. I spent a lot of time walking her around the blocks of the vets office, outside so she would relax a bit. She moved quite slow. I have to say that with Grace she has always been quite laid back and I didn't see a drastic change in her personality, but she did perk up a bit. The thing we noticed the most was the solid poop that we've had ever since, which we rarely had prior to the shot. There was something going on there.....and Grace has not needed to go back to the vet since (last April to this Jan we saw the vet 4 times). She just had her annual well dog check up and everything is great. I hope sweet Chancy feels better soon, and that you get some answers for whatever ails her.

Edited August 29, 2007 by gracegirl

[ZoomDoggy]

It's been just over 24 hours since the shot, and honestly I see no improvement in the symptoms that led us to try the shot. I know I shouldn't expect a miracle, but it's hard not to be disappointed when I hear how fast other dogs have benefitted from it. What it means to me is that Babesia is likely not Chancy's problem.

 

Chancy's vet seems pretty responsive from what you have posted, so try to be upbeat with Chancy and patient with the meds. With a very low platelet count It does take a while, and that is what Chancy needs the Doxy for. Sending prayers.

 

Thank you. Hope is exactly what I need right now.

[feemandvm]

How low were the platelets? You really don't see bleeding problems unless they are below 25,000.

 

 

[robinw]

We've given Imizol (Imidocarb) to a lot of dogs. The first one we did reacted with the GSOD. After that, we learned to change needles from drawup to injection and none of the others have even noticed it. We've not had any throw up or have any other noticeable side effects. In most cases, we have seen improvement of symptoms within 24 hours. But, in a few cases, where the dogs were terribly debilitated, it has been slow going on the improvement front.

that's how phoenix was given him imizol. there was some limping afterwards and improvement within several days of the first injection. he was markedly symptomatic prior to the first injection.

[greysandmollie]

Aimee Lost Chancy yesterday....