GreytXpctations

The poop eating may be the biggest problem if the other animals have hooks. As I understand it: hook eggs can last for a long time in the ground and can hatch at any time. The larva can live in the ground and enter through the feet just from the dog walking over them. According to the vets, my yard likely has hooks in it at any given time at some stage of their life cycle. Eggs can sit dormant, larva can live off the earth for awhile and the adults will die without a host. Normally, something like HG+ with both ivermectin and pyrantel has enough punch to knock out juveniles that may enter this way as larva, before they can lay eggs, which starts the life cycle internally. HG+ is not strong enough to knock out an adult infestation though (nor is Advocate/Advantage Multi, etc.). I am over simplifying and over generalizing this. I am still not sure completely how these treatment resistant hooks fit into this, which is why I am asking so many questions here. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency in successful treatment. Thanks. How long was was he on the advanced schedule? Was it every two weeks?

I tend to agree with you on this. I think it is easy to dismiss this as environmental reinfestations rather than treatment resistant, but if it was purely environmental, why would some dogs in a household remain hook free while others can't get rid of them. A couple of members in this thread have more than one dog, with the uninfected dog on HG+ staying clean, while the infected dog came in that way and has not been able to shake the hooks. If there is a treatment resistant hook out there, I don't want to expose my dogs to it. I have quit transporting new dogs or attending any functions with new dogs present. In the past, I have been pretty firm about two courses with panacur and monthly with HG+ fixes everything, and that HG+ prevents new infestation on its own. HG+ has made life very easy for me as I have never had a hook reinfestation, or had to deal with hooks except on a new dog fresh in the door. I used up my extra HG+ for a couple of temporary dogs and had it replaced with HG (not plus) and ended up with hooks after attending events with fresh from the track dogs. Having three greys here, the idea that I may have introduced some new type of hook into my pack makes me more than a little uneasy. So far so good, but these ones didn't clear as fast as normal.

Parasites can contribute to skin conditions as well as diet. I think I saw you posting in the hook thread? Also with diet, it may not even be a matter of proper nutrition, as sometimes allergies or sensitivities to certain ingredients can lead to flaky skin. Sometimes a different food can cure things, and it doesn't even have to be a better food. Sometimes the flakyness will get worse before it gets better, as the older skin will exfoliate even as the newer healthier skin grows below, so any change you make may not be immediately apparent in terms of improvement. I made a diet change one time and my grey started with giant flakes for a week or more, then things cleared up completely. Overbathing, even with moisturizing shampoo, can also cause excessive dander. Not saying any of this applies, but just throwing it out there.

I agree with the snack suggestions above. If it seems to happen only during empty stomach periods, she might need some food in her stomach to help settle it.

I have also been talking about this with a few vets I know (at my dogs' practice and socially). They all have some cases that they are having problems with and they are all with greyhounds. At the practice, they seem to believe that the reinfestations are environmental rather than treatment resistant, although they admit that they are having more problems with the hooks. Anything new since talking with your vet this morning? How receptive was your vet to the prison suggested regime? Thanks.

Do you think she is getting reinfected from outside locations? How long has she been on both HG+ and Advantage monthly? Is that a temporary thing or a long term solution from your vet? Both of them are low dose solutions that do the same thing related to worms, but neither will kill off an infection. Not questioning any decisions, just looking for clarification to try to find some consistency in a workable solution. I know a few people dealing with this right now, and I am not 100% sure that I am out of the woods on this either.

Is yours on a monthly schedule for the Advantage Monthly, or an advanced schedule like on the prison program document?

Thanks for that. It seems to confirm everything we have been hearing about treatment resistant hooks. I will be keeping an eye out to be sure that my dogs stay clean. No more meet and greets or picnics for these guys.

Hey that's all good news. Sounds like things are improving. Mornings are always a bit more firm. I think the beet pulp with the chicory keeps things moving along. Mine are 2x-3x per day on the Diamond Naturals as well. Hopefully that will continue to work out for him over the long term and that the hooks are gone for sure. Sounds promising.

It may just take time to adjust then. It sounds like you are on top of things. Also good about the checkup and fecal. It would be good to rule things out health wise as well.

Most of my greys were light eaters when they were new, but that usually cleared up within a week or two. We would usually feed twice a day, and take the food back up if they didn't eat it, but also keeping an eye on their weight. Finding the right food can make a big difference, but switching the food too often can be upsetting to their digestion. Being new can also upset their appetite. This is a totally different world to what they are used to and it can take awhile to adjust. Too much activity around mealtime can affect appetite (and also be dangerous). You also mentioned that you have other dogs, so she might be slow to eat as she finds her place relative to the other dogs as well. Could you try feeding her in a separate room away from the others, but with you there to see if that helps? If she came to you on a sensitive stomach diet, she may have been having some issues before. It may just take time to adjust and find the right food. I usually buy good quality canned food when I have new dogs in case they don't want to eat the dry. They usually eat the canned even if they avoid the kibble, and it can prevent weight loss and encourage eating at specific times. My latest took about three tries to find the right food. She would just peck and leave most of it behind.

I would also avoid all the places that your dog could come in contact with hooks (if you aren't already). The potty patch outside of PetSmart, for example, can be as bad as any dog park, maybe worse since they have people bringing their dogs to the vet inside. Not to just center out PS, all the other similar places would be the same. Plus meet and greets, dog parks, dog friendly businesses, etc. Anywhere dogs are pooping. At the very least, keep him away until you are absolutely free from hooks. That way you have an idea of whether he is recontacting them or just not getting rid of them.

I'm more of a fan of finding the right food than I am of adding different stuff to make a food work. I understand that not everyone has this option, due to specific issues with their hounds, but for us, I will work until I find the right food that works. At one point, we were on three different foods, but finally found one low enough in protein for the old boy, and high enough in fiber for the young boy. The new girl, like the old girl can eat just about everything. If eyes are the window to the soul, then poo seems to be the window to their health. On another note, Chewy is an Amazon company, yet has become a cheaper solution to my Amazon problem. I come out ahead, and Amazon still benefits from losing my sale. The pet food store still loses, unless there are shipping delays. Stay in touch with how the Kirkland works for you. Does it have both the beet pulp and the chicory like the Diamond naturals?

Just found it on Chewy.com, but the shipping was free last time because I ordered 2 bags and met the minimum of $49 (probably why I ordered 2 last time). Set up autoship and got a 5% discount, plus a 20% discount for first autoship order. So I will get two bags every 6 weeks instead of 1 bag every 3 weeks, and get free 2 day shipping, and save 5% from what I was paying on Amazon. They also have it on Jet, which has free shipping over $35, and free ship to store for Ace hardware at $6/bag higher price, but still cheaper than the pet food store. Well even if you don't use it, at least I won't be scrambling now like I would have if I went to reorder from Amazon and it wasn't available to me

Wow. I just ordered a bag last week and went to get the link and all of a sudden it is available for Prime Members only. I wonder if Amazon's live gaming practices are now including pushing former Prime members back into the fold. I can also buy it locally at a non-chain pet food store. My last three bags have been free shipping from Amazon. Before that, I had free ship from Chewy, but had ordered two bags.

I think the lower protein is better for greys, according to vet advice i have gotten, so I try to stay below 25. I just switched back to Diamond Naturals for the first time since the 2012 recalls, since they have a lower protein food, no corn, and have beet pulp and chicory for extra fiber (and no production problems the since 2012 salmonella recalls). All the dogs love it and are doing well on it. No additional additives to their diet are necessary for them. It is the first time in years that I have had all my dogs on the same food. It is very affordable too, for a 40 lb bag, and qualifies for free shipping from a number of online sites. Nutro, Eukanuba and Iams are all owned by Mars now and I have had some bad experience with each since they were acquired. I can't use Euk or Iams on one of the dogs anyway, due to a corn sensitivity. TOTW is owned by Diamond.

Every grey I have taken in or fostered has had hooks coming in the door except the one we took in off Craigslist. He picked up hooks at a meet and greet (or from one of his sibs who was also at the m&g). All my dogs, since my Aussie rescue days, have been on HeartGuard Plus (ivermectin and pyrantel pamoate) which contains ingredients that prevent worms from reaching maturity (including round, hook and whip), as well as preventing heartworm. None of my dogs that were on monthly, year round, HG+ have ever had an issue with hooks once they were hook negative. Unfortunately, they ended up on generic HG for a couple of months (no Plus [pyrantel]) and had three events with fresh from the track greys who were all hook positive. One of my greys tested positive, one was symptomatic and one seemed ok. I dewormed them all using fenbendazole (Panacur, 8in1) as I have done with fosters and new dogs in the past and put them back on HG+ (with the pyrantel). This has always worked for me in the past. Tested all three dogs and got 2 negs and 1 positive. Retreat with fenbendazole, between monthly HG+ doses, and again 2 negs and a weak positive, although dogs seem to be better. Retreat with Drontal Plus (praziquantel/pyrantel pamoate/febantel) and three negs. Dogs are healthy, weight is good. After talking with friends and acquaintances in a number of local groups (Tampa has about 7 now, I think), they are all saying that all the dogs coming in have hooks and that these hooks are very hard to get rid of. Many suspect that panacur no longer works, but most of the groups only give ivermectin for heartworm, so none of the dogs are getting pyrantel. I will not be attending any picnics or meet and greets with my dogs this year, since this is the only way that mine came into contact with with the hooks. Ticks are becoming a big problem again too, but that is another topic. I suspect that Panacur may not be as effective as it was, and believe that Pyrantel is an important part of treatment and prevention ( I have felt this way about Pyrantel for years, due to my household hook free existence). I do not have any experience in using Drontal alone, so cannot attest to its effectiveness as a standalone treatment. Like bacteria and some antibiotics, if there are some hooks that survive treatment by Panacur/8in1/fenbendazole, then they may be breeding Panacur resistant hooks. I do not know, but the vet said "it's possible", since it happens with antibiotics and flea preventatives. Currently I am suggesting Panacur (or generic), HG+ monthly, then followup with Drontal for the second treatment just to cover the bases, because it worked for me and two other people that I suggested it to. I am not a vet and do not suggest doing this without vet involvement, but so far the vets seem open to this solution as well, because of the problems with hooks lately. At this point, I do not even know if the Panacur is necessary, but as mentioned above, I haven't tried treatment without it. I am also fortunate in that I have two fenced yards (side and back), so that I can switch yards while treating the dogs to keep them from recontacting hooks. I pick up after my dogs daily. This last episode was a rare event for me that I believe was due to a combination of dropping the "Plus" from HG+ and contact with a number of hook positive dogs. My dogs have contacted fresh track dogs many times before but have always been on HG+. But, treatment with panacur has always worked in the past as well. Apparently, a couple of area groups have been having recurring problems with whipworm as well. Fortunately, this one seems to be easily knocked out.

I agree about the protein. I try to keep the protein down around 22% (or less if kidney or UT issues).

We were having great results with initial treatment of fenbendazole (panacur, 8in1, other names) and keeping the dogs on Heartguard Plus monthly. For years, we needed no additional followup if treated about 2 weeks before the HG+. The last time we had to deal with hookworms, we used fenbendazole and then followed up with Drontal (praziquantel/pyrantel pamoate), since the regular routine that had worked for years no longer worked. Still using HG+ monthly for heartworm and still believe that it helps to keep hooks et al from fully developing. I suspect that the hooks may be developing a resistance to fenbendazole.

Even if he isn't new and the behavior has always existed, it could be worms if it is getting worse all of a sudden. The above comment has applied to every racer we have taken in and was my first impression as well after reading your comment. I have quit taking my greys to meet and greet type of events because that has been the most likely place that they have reacquired parasites. Having a full house again, we are no longer fostering and the dogs all have company in each other, so it has been easy to identify sources of parasite re-infection. Since every dog we were taking in seemed to have ticks and/or worms, we have avoided interaction between our personal dogs and the new off the track greys. It has been working so far. One of my colleagues from another area group has also mentioned that they have had a number of dogs come in through the training program with whip worm. This was awhile ago now, so I am not sure of the current status. I only do an occasional shuttle/transport run these days since un-retiring, so my interaction with local groups has been limited. Hobbes, has a stomach issue, so gets a bedtime snack to keep it settled through the night. There is a delicate balancing act with this as we have learned, because not enough food wakes him up by 2am, but too much food wakes him up about 4 or 5 having to go outside. He also gets an afternoon snack, in addition to the two meals that all three get. He gets kibble at snack time and the others get half a cookie each to keep the peace. Our vet suggested the snack solution and it has been working for the most part. Two of our three are "chronically hungry", but no more than usual and maintain about 2-3 pounds over race weight. Routine, discipline and patience. As mentioned above, they do train us if we let them, but we also need to listen to them when things that go out of the ordinary, as may be the case with yours. -Oddly, the one that gets us up the earliest was never a track grey. The other two would sleep until 7 if he let them, having been gradually adjusted off of turn-out time. Maybe if you experiment with the snack amount, but at the expense of the other meal amounts so that the daily total stays the same, you will find the balance. But if things have changed from the regular routine, then you may want to rule out worms. The stool may not indicate anything to the eye until the worms are well established.

Pneumonyssoides are the nasal mites mentioned above, but are just commonly called nasal mites. Treatment is easy -Ivermectin, which is the main ingredient in Heartguard+.

This is a great post on all points. Butt baldness is a funny thing and varies from dog to dog. Two of our past dogs grew their thigh fur back after getting them off food with corn and switching to a food rich in omega oils. One grew most back just by settling in to a soft spoiled routine life. Several kept their bald butts all their lives. Some people swear it's thyroid (careful with tests, since greys read differently), and in the rare case it may be, but most often it is likely one of two things: diet, including allergies or sensitivities, which will often have other indicators; and "kennel epilation" which is just a fancy way of saying that the fur gets pulled out gradually and repeatedly by rubbing on the kennel (cage) floor as the dog sits to lay down. Some of the bigger dogs generally roll off their cheek as they slide into a lay down and the fur gets rubbed off. This is also why most of the dogs have bald chests as well. I have transported six year old retirees with not just bald, but calloused butts. It often just depends on what kennel they come from. Not a big deal. Certainly not to the dogs And, I love that "time and patience" is first above. Even after dozens of dogs through our home, each time we bring in a new one we have to consciously "reset" our perspective to that of the new dog, who may have spent years learning an entirely different life from one in a house. Unlike other breeds, greys often have to unlearn their own life before they can learn their new life. Patience is important and it pays off so well in the long run.

He might have been fostered in a "no dogs on furniture" house. If so, his introduction to living in a house would include this behavior -possibly as ingrained as don't pee in the house.

I wonder if mars is making major cost cutting changes to their foods. They just messed up Nutro pretty bad with a major ingredient change, and I have been having some issues with the one dog I have on eukanuba. Out of Three dogs, the two on Mars brands have had issues. Running out of brands that work and can be trusted. Mars brands are definitely on that list now.

I have been following Taylor's story since I have been on here, and I am so sorry to hear of your loss. He was lucky to have you, and I'm sure that you feel the same about him. My sincere condolences. We have been involved with breed specific rescues and animal welfare for years. For some reason nothing has torn at our hearts like losing our greys. We have loved all of our dogs, and kept track of all of our fosters, but the greys were all special. I am so sorry.