Recovering from mistakes in the first 3 days; scared to leave apartment

[FloraTheGrey]

My partner and I just adopted a 3.5 yr old brindle girl 3 days ago. She is sweet and relaxed inside our apartment, but incredibly anxious and scared of loud noises, new people/dogs, and especially cars. We have been working on improving that with some success, but we made several mistakes that has erased some progress and we need advice.

Summary: new girl very anxious and scared of the outside world and the elevator, but calm in the apartnent. We made several mistakes: First night we forced her to go out for a walk and she was completely terrified (loud cars, headlights, new places). The second day we drove her to a forested park, and both the ride and especially the park were overwhelming and very scary. We got her to walk a bit but probably should have left much sooner than we did, and she did have a big startle moment there. After that we decided to just focus on potty breaks (now in a more secluded spot) and no walks yet. Yesterday she did ok w/ breaks in the morning, but in the evening we tried two new routes to the spot (b/c the previous one involved a gated driveway that would be closed semi-permanently soon). One involved going down 3 steps of stairs and that did not get further than 1 step with assistance before she was terrified. The other was opening the door of another car garage, but the mechanism (stomping on an air tube on the ground) completely spooked and I mean SPOOKED her more than anything. This morning she completely refused (laying down on her side) to go out for her 7am potty (but did wake us up at 2am to go out--we did the old route and she did fine). We eventually gave up and fed her breakfast, which she still refused to come into the kitchen (near the door we use to go out) for. We have been giving her chicken and yogurt as high value treats for these situations as positive reinforcement, but when she gets too scared she won't eat.

She seems to be regressing after us accidentally putting her into scary situations, (especially trying the new route last night), and this is ruining the routine we want to set for her. She has begun to balk more and more whenever her outdoor coat, leash, or our jackets get out on. Previously, she would be anxious but we could coax her out but today she has learned that she can just lay down completely. How can we get her comfortable going outside again so we can retrain the trip to her potty spot? How can we get her to stand up from laying down? We are going to need to use the new route out very soon. Is it better to carry her up and down the 3 steps of stairs than try to walk her through the now scary door? I have not picked her up yet.

More details:

We originally planned for her potty spot to be a field of grass across the street. To get there, we have to go downstairs via the elevator, through the apartment buildings garage, and out the door onto the street. The first day we took her to the spot before bringing her in, and while she froze a lot along the street, she eventually crossed, and eventually peed after going to the middle of the field. But she then froze and would only go back to the car (and that was a challenge). That night, we tried to take her for a walk around the block, first to the potty spot, and then going further. This went horribly. We live in a smaller city, in an area with mostly houses, but it was too much. It was dark, and there were a lot of cars driving by, and she completely froze in fear. Our first mistake was making her keep moving--we basically had to scoot her step by step all the way around the block while she froze. It took over an hour. At the very end, she seemed to relax very briefly and sniffed the ground and pooped. We wanted her to potty outside so that she learned not to go indoors. 

After that, we knew we had to find a new spot. There is a small patch of grass alongside part of the building that we could get to (at least for now) by going out the same garage door and walking around the building. On the morning of day 2 we took her there and while the journey had several freezes and some scooted, once there she went potty more easily. We also did training to make lot of progress on making the trip to elevator less scary.

Later on day 2 we took her in the car to a forested park, but both the drive and the park of that were overwhelming, especially the park because it was full of people and cars in the parking lot. She did a bit better on quiet spells but would get scared again when other dogs, or loud groups of people passed. We stayed at the park longer than we should have (we wanted to get her exercise), and on the way back she got startled (by the poop bag holder clacking against her leash) while already on alert because of approaching dogs and jumped in the air and snarled. We got her home eventually but the walk back to the parking lot had a lot of freezing and waiting her out with treats as a reward. I think after this my partner and I's black winter jackets became very scary and we switched to other coats to get her to go out. 

Our plan for her schedule going forward is/was: potty at 7am, breakfast after that (7:30 or 8 depending), 2nd potty around noon, dinner at 5 or 5:30, 3rd potty at 6, and final one at 9:30 or 10. 

Yesterday was the 3rd day, and she went out to potty (using the old route) no problem at 7am, with just my partner, but we think only because she REALLY needed to potty. She slept through the morning and into the afternoon, so we didn't go on the noon potty break. We realized that we needed to find a new route to her spot, because there was a gate in the alleyway that would be locked soon (it's been open b/c it's snowing but usually closed). There were 2 options that led directly to her potty spot: go down 3 steps of stairs, or go through the garage door in a different garage than the old route. We first tried the steps b/c we thought we couldn't open the garage door from this direction. She did not get too far with that-- i lifted her paw to put it down on the first step and the movement scared her to the point of not accepting treats. Her back paws slid a bit as she tried to catch herself which didn't help. We waited to see if she would calm down but eventually gave up. Later we found we could open the garage door for the new route by stomping on an tube (that cars normally drive over). We tried this yesterday for her 10pm "final" potty break and while it took several attempts of showing her it was ok, she eventually went out and peed. We tried to wait to see if she would poop too, as she hadn't since the morning, but eventually went in. My partner tried again taking her out by herself at 11:30 and had a terrible experience. She stomped on the air tube but since the dog was much closer this time she was completely terrified. My partner described it as the most scared she has been, by far. Needless to say, she brought her back upstairs. 

She didn't poop last night b/c of this, and woke us up at 2am today. We took her out (using the old route) and she did fine, because she REALLY needed to poop (woke us up and was circling next to her crate for a while which is how we knew). However, this morning we got up to take her for her morning potty and she has completely refused to move, now fully laying down. Before she would reluctantly come with us to the door after a bit. We waited and tried a twice but eventually skipped it and gave her her breakfast (with her coat and leash still on) but she refused to come get it as we normally feed her in the kitchen by the door we use to the hallway.

We are unsure of how to proceed. We need to train her to at least one of the 2 new routes (stairs, or the garage door associated a horrible experience) soon. We could also try carrying her up and down the 3 stairs for now? But all of this means getting her out of the apartment, and that has now become harder than ever. For a most of yesterday, she seemed to be steadily improving as long as we have her time to watch and think but now we can't get her to these situations to train--all the steps we need to do before going out are making her stop. We know we made a lot of mistakes, but hopefully there is something we can do to rebuild her trust and courage.

Thank you for reading all of this. We have bought a harness to help with guiding her, but apart from leaving it on the ground near her to desensitize it, we haven't tried putting it on since that may be a whole new scary thing.Her first vet appointment is in a few days, and we are thinking about asking about anxiety medication to make building confidence/safe experiences easier. We want to make apartment life with us work for her if we can.

 

 

 

[1Moregrey]

Sounds like you have done nothing wrong.  I would just spend some time with her outside just standing by the closest grassy spot so she can get used to sounds and have access to potty area.  Just know there are many ways to do things just have to find what works.  They are emotionally tender hearted so be gentle and they will forgive you.

To get her used to the harness you can make a loop (hook the neck and body hooks together off the dog) with some of her kibble or dog treat in your had pass your hand through the loop with the harness resting on your arm.  This will help make a positive association.  Do it a few time a day for a day or two.  As she gets more comfortable move it down your arm.  The goal is to have her put her head through the loops to take the treat.  When she can do this then pet her with the harness in you hand.  Like you are dying her off with a towel and feed treats at the same time.  If that goes well put it over her back and fasten the collar hook. Take it on and off her several times.  If she is comfortable with that then hook around chest. Leave it on a few sec to min depending on her reaction and build up from there. Then you can let her ware it around the house.  It should take a day to a few days to get her used to it.  Let her set the pace.

Steps if there are two of you:  one can have treats and go ahead of her and one by her side just keep moving like you expect her to follow. The one in front have treat in open hand beside your leg at the back closest to the dog keep just out of reach.  So the dog is focused on the treat.  One with her can gently hold onto the loop if martingale collar and lift up and forward to keep her moving.  

I wrote a little about settling in of my new greyhound in the introduction section it might be helpful.

The freezing or statue is when they are overwhelmed with all the new stuff and goes away the more confident and familiar they are in the new environment.

Hope this helps, not sure I touched on all questions.  I had a few interruptions  would be happy to help with other areas just let me know.  
 

[greysmom]

First of all. stop.  Just stop.  Take a breath, take a break - for all of you.

It sounds like she already knows to go potty outside, since she's waking you up, so let that worry go (and get some puppy pads, if necessary).  Normally, yes, you should establish a strict daily routine and stick to it, but she's not there yet, and you need to meet her where she is.  Give her some space and time.  If all she wants to do right now is cling to one safe spot, then let her.  If she's not interested in eating, let the meal wait.  She needs all the time and patience you have for her.  Let her just *be* for a while.

Sit quietly with her near her safe spot.  Read a book (out loud to her) or watch a quiet show.  Talk to her.  Toss her a yummy treat if she's interested.  Play some calming music.   Do your best to bond with her and build up a level of trust.

Keep remembering her situation - she's never been in a house before, never been in a town to see/hear cars and sirens and other town noises, she's likely never even been outside at night accept in a very limited way.  Literally everything she's experiencing right now is new and scary - including new people she doesn't know and who keep making her do scary things.  So.  Just.  Stop.

Get a bunch of DAP diffusers and place them around the house.  She may need a DAP collar as well.  Look into OTC calming treats and/or CBD (if legal in your area) treats.  But I suspect she may need some prescription anti anxiety medication to help her through this time.  Not permanently, but enough to help her brain slow down and reach a state where counter conditioning can help her.  If she hasn't seen a vet yet, you might call and see how soon that can happen.  Yes, it will be stressful for her, but ultimately useful.  A home visiting vet would be better if you have that available to you.

If you haven't yet, contact your adoption group and let them know how much trouble she's having adapting to living in the city.  They may have some further ideas and suggestions for you, or they may not.  Sometimes volunteers haven't dealt with this level of anxiety and they are as bewildered as you are.  A certified animal behaviorist might be able to help you all with some strategies too.  Make sure they are familiar with greyhounds and only use positive reinforcement techniques.

Finally, I only say this as a suggestion, but you may need to consider that she's not cut out to be a city dog.  Some are great - they love the hustle and bustle and meeting new people and going out and about.  Others, not so much.  And some, fortunately rarely, cannot handle the faster pace, the noise, the cars, the everything.  So really evaluate whether she needs a different environment to thrive.  Returning a dog isn't a failure, it just gives everyone a reset so they can all succeed.  

Here's a link to a great training tool.  This is a book by Patricia McConnell which will give you some great ways to help your girl.

The Cautious Canine

Good luck.

[Feefee147]

Aw bless her!

Firstly - congratulations on your new addition! Secondly....stop blaming yourselves! 

Three days is absolutely no time at all and it's completely normal (albeit frustrating at times) for new greys to be incredibly nervous and anxious outside. Especially in busy areas with traffic, people ...etc. If you search all the forums you'll see many posts on statuing and freezing. It's going to take time to build up her confidence with all these strange new things.

I'm lucky in that I have a small garden area for toilet trips, which was a godsend initially and saved me doing the 20 minute (but would have been 2 minutes without freezing) walk to the park area every time my boy needed the toilet. He was absolutely terrified being plucked from his life and being shoved into a big loud city and I did have a few moments initially when I wondered if it was fair to keep him, or if he should be rehomed somewhere quiet. 

We built it up slowly (he's too heavy to carry so we had to just plough forward with routine - the same routes so he could start to feel comfortable - encouragement, cheery voices and positive reinforcement) and he's now generally fine with walking and noise. So it does get better. It just takes a lot of time and patience. 

There's not a lot I can add to the replies above. Plenty of good advice  

Except ... It's very early days and you're all learning. She WILL get used to everything and, as she starts to relax and bond with you, things will improve. You'll have a couple of steps forward, and then the odd frustrating step back. Trust yourselves, take it all on the chin and don't beat yourselves up!

 

[FloraTheGrey]

Thank you everyone for the kind words! It has been very reassuring, and we needed to hear that it will improve. 

6 hours ago, 1Moregrey said:

I would just spend some time with her outside just standing by the closest grassy spot so she can get used to sounds and have access to potty area.  Just know there are many ways to do things just have to find what works.  
 

Once we get her outside, she has been okay at getting to her grassy spot, and calming down there, even if it takes a bit. The big problem is getting her out there! The trip from our door to the elevator is slow, which is ok, but getting her to go *inside* the elevator is a challenge. She does it sometimes (I think when she really needs to go, as she realizes it means outside), but otherwise she will freeze at the door (and we cant hold it open forever because the elevator alarm goes off after about 60 seconds). Today, she refused to go at 7am, did go in at noon (but only peed), and then refused at 4:30. I guess our worry is whether to bring her back home if she wont go in after a few tries, or to scoot her into the elevator myself. We dont want to let her learn that she can avoid the outside by balking, but also give her opportunities to go to the bathroom.

Thank you for the harness training tips! I will start with that tomorrow. 

6 hours ago, greysmom said:

First of all. stop.  Just stop.  Take a breath, take a break - for all of you.

It sounds like she already knows to go potty outside, since she's waking you up, so let that worry go (and get some puppy pads, if necessary).  Normally, yes, you should establish a strict daily routine and stick to it, but she's not there yet, and you need to meet her where she is.  Give her some space and time.  If all she wants to do right now is cling to one safe spot, then let her.  If she's not interested in eating, let the meal wait.  She needs all the time and patience you have for her.  Let her just *be* for a while.

Thank you so much for the reminder. We were (clearly) getting very anxious about her anxiety. Inside the apartment, she is relaxed. She spends most of the day asleep either in her crate, or on the carpet in the living room. She seems to enjoy having her head gently pet while she sits, as she will poke my hand or look at me when I stop. We can both be out of sight (in the connected kitchen where she can hear but not see us), and she doesnt immediately worry, although we are still sleeping in the living room with her at night. Its only when going outside (or getting ready too) that we have problems. We will order some Adaptil / DAP products now, and ask about other options at the vet. Do you leave the diffusers running all the time, or just for a few hours during the day?

 

5 hours ago, Feefee147 said:

I'm lucky in that I have a small garden area for toilet trips, which was a godsend initially and saved me doing the 20 minute (but would have been 2 minutes without freezing) walk to the park area every time my boy needed the toilet. He was absolutely terrified being plucked from his life and being shoved into a big loud city and I did have a few moments initially when I wondered if it was fair to keep him, or if he should be rehomed somewhere quiet. 

We built it up slowly (he's too heavy to carry so we had to just plough forward with routine - the same routes so he could start to feel comfortable - encouragement, cheery voices and positive reinforcement) and he's now generally fine with walking and noise. So it does get better. It just takes a lot of time and patience. 

Thats good to hear. My partner and I are both from a much bigger city, so where we are now seemed relatively quiet. But having spent time with our hound outside, Ive begun to notice just how many cars, bikes, and people there are around our block. Hoping she will improve with time like your grey.

[1Moregrey]

I got side tracked. For going outside the apartment same principle as the harness.  If she eats dry kibble and you have some time.  Put her leash on her and hand feed her as close as you can get her comfortably to the door. Walk her closer to the door as she will take steps comfortably feed her more you can also vary the amount of treats she gets (think jackpot at a slot machine she never knows if it is a piece or several). Keep doing this until she will walk to the elevator.  You may not get out the door the first day with this.  So do not rush it.  When she is comfortable with this, use the kibble to lure her into the elevator (you can also use special elevator treats cheese, meat scraps, should only be a tiny bit just a taste) while she is in the elevator.  So she will be going in just to get the treat.

[cleptogrey]

Woaw.....step back. Let's get everyone super comfy in the house first. I hope she has a warm comfortable crate to retreat to as well as a big bed in an active part of the house.

Keep her on leash with you or partner and have treats:cheese, chicken, hot dog slivers on hand. Say her name and when she looks give her a treat . A bond will be formed. Food goes straight to their head and heart.

Use the same treats to have her focus on you as you go out. You have figured which route works better.

The key is her focus on you! You will be the leader and her security.

The webmaster harness is the best but I frown upon harnesses unless your dog has a physical problem. At the track they used collars, she is used to it.

Slow and steady. It takes a good month for a new pup to get used to a new home. Stay on a schedule, she is used to it. 

It can take 6 months for adopted dogs to really blossom. Be patient, boering & loving! Lots of treats and keep her next to u on lead. 

Car ride, walks, coffee shop visits will all happen.

Edited February 2, 2021 by cleptogrey

[HeyRunDog]

You've had some good advice and about all I can add is be confident. She is learning about this new world she's now in and needs reassurance from how her pack leaders react. For example, if you go to the lift as if you are expecting problems she'll pick up on that and behave accordingly. Only praise her and give her treats after she's overcome the problem. Don't comfort her when she's being afraid as that will reinforce in her mind that she's behaving correctly.

Time and patience work wonders. It took my Grace four weeks to stop freezing on walks and a further two to get used to noisy traffic. She still doesn't like the sound of noisy children or footballs being kicked but we can live with that.

The main thing is to give her time to get used to her new home, let her build her trust in you so she knows she'll come to no harm and relax and enjoy the company of a greyhound.

[FloraTheGrey]

1Hi all! Thank you for the advice. I wanted to update yall on Flora, in case it is helpful for other people in a similar situation.

Its been just under 4 weeks since we made our first post, and Flora has improved a lot! She now happily puts on her coat (and tolerates us putting on her booties), and walks with us to the elevator and to her potty spot, in a quiet side-garden by the building. She doesnt react much to cars driving up and down the adjacent driveway into our garage.

What worked for us:

-Adaptil Collar + Diffuser; We think this helped her feel more relaxed in the apartment, but probably not with going outside.

-Composure (3x/day) + Zylkene: This, we think was the most important. The Zylkene in particular seemed help her be calm enough that we could do lots of desensitization training with her coat, the hallway, and the elevator. 

-A lot of peanut butter and hot dog (her two favorites). The peanut butter in particular seemed to help calm her down when close to her "threshold" of fear.

-Reading posts here talking about "flooding" and fear thresholds. We realized that her fear threshold was super low, and so she'd get overwhelmed and couldnt learn anything. The Composure + Zylkene seemed to bump that threshold up enough that she could start learning that it was safe. Now we know that when she is flooded with scary stuff / way above her threshold, its not worth staying there for her to "learn" its ok; that just makes it worse. We calmly take her back to safety when this happens and then try again another time.

This all took about 2 weeks. For most of that, I was carrying her from our apartment door all the way outside, and we were really worried it wouldnt ever get better. Thank you all (and all the other posts on Greytalk that we read over and over!) for letting us know that it would pass.

But she still has a ways to go. We haven't been able to take her very far outside of the little garden area. We did a few times, late at night, on snowy days that were particularly quiet, but before we got too far, she'd hear something that scared her. Big trucks, non-standard cars (stuff with souped up motors, or broken engines that sound weird), motorcycles, people driving over a pothole that makes a ka-thunk sound... anything like that and she spooks and goes into a full fear response. Now she's regressed a bit, and balks as we start getting close to the driveway that leads out to the main street. We are slowly working on desensitization training that seems to be going okay. Also trying to get her used to car rides so we can hopefully take her to a quiet(er) park. She's good about the car at least. Based on our vet's recommendation, we just started her on Clomicalm to see if that helps relax her more when outside.

[BatterseaBrindl]

Slow and steady!