I Got Bitten

[Guest Helen]

Myself and my husband adopted a 3 year old greyhound, Marty, just over 6 months ago now. Generally he’s been great, very little trouble, well behaved (mostly – he’s eaten a few things that he shouldn’t) and has been developing into a very sweet and affectionate dog.

 

However, he has on occasion got a bit cross and barked at me. Once when he was lying on our bed and I reached under my pillow to get my pjs out and once when I took his winter snood ( ) off over his head (again while he was lying on our bed). He also growled at me once when I was trying to check his teeth, although he will stand very patiently and let my husband clean them.

 

Last week he was standing on our bed, looking out of the window with his front feet on my husband’s lap. I tried to move him slightly so that his feet were on the bed and he snarled at me properly nastily.

 

I have put all these incidents down to me misjudging the situation/him and getting in his space or irritating him. However, last Saturday morning, as I was putting his coat on him for his morning walk he got cross again and this time, instead of just growling, he rounded on me and bit me on the leg and arm.

 

I’ve put his coat on him almost every day for months now, he’s never had any kind of problem with it before. He was standing in the hallway when it happened, he wasn’t on his bed, or on ours, and a moment before had been wagging his tail and throwing his toys about happily in expectation of the walk. I’m sure I didn’t hurt him with the coat (or nip him with the harness or anything like that) and I don’t think that physically there’s anything wrong with him (other than recently diagnosed pancreatitis, which we’re managing). He let my husband put his coat on and went for a walk quite happily immediately after it happened and hasn’t shown any signs of having a problem with me since (although I haven’t put his coat/harness on him).

 

We’ve had a chat to our adoption agency who think we have over-indulged him (yes, probably!) and that for some reason, while he respects my husband, he doesn’t respect me. We obviously need to get some training done, teach him what he is allowed to do and what is not acceptable.

 

Does anyone else have experience of this kind of behaviour? I’m more than happy to learn to be a better owner, and if I’d got bitten as a result of trying to take food off him or bothering him when he was asleep I could understand it more. But it seemed like such a random temper attack, like he hated me, or his coat or something all of a sudden and I’m not sure how I’ll ever know that he’s not going to randomly do the same thing again. Advice? Sorry for the super long introductory post!

[Trudy]

First - he's no longer allowed on your bed. And I'd even suggest that he's no longer allowed on any other furniture either.

Then start working on training. I would suggest you do the training and your husband backs it up.

[ozgirl2]

Yep - take away privileges!! Also, for the bite, pancreatitis is very painful - maybe you touched him somewhere while putting on coat that hurt?

[ozgirl2]

I just posted this in another thread, but since you're a newbie, I'll post it here first. It's by Kathleen Gilley (who has passed away, but used to have a group of greyhounds called the Dancing Gilleys - amazing!) It will give you some insight into a greyhound in a home for the 1st time...

 

Thoughts of a Greyhound

By the late Kathleen Gilley

 

"This breed has never been asked to do anything for itself, make any decisions or answer any questions. It has been waited on, paw and tail. The only prohibition in a racing Greyhound's life is not to get into a fight--or eat certain stuff in the turn out pen.

Let us review a little. From weaning until you go away for schooling, at probably a year and a half, you eat, grow and run around with your siblings. When you go away to begin your racing career, you get your own "apartment," in a large housing development. No one is allowed in your bed but you, and when you are in there, no one can touch you, without plenty of warning.

Someone hears a vehicle drive up, or the kennel door being unlocked. The light switches are flipped on. The loud mouths in residence, and there always are some, begin to bark or howl. You are wide awake by the time the human opens your door to turn you out. A Greyhound has never been touched while he was asleep.

You eat when you are fed, usually on a strict schedule. No one asks if you are hungry or what you want to eat. You are never told not to eat any food within your reach. No one ever touches your bowl while you are eating. You are not to be disturbed because it is important you clean your plate.

You are not asked if you have to "go outside." You are placed in a turn out pen and it isn't long before you get the idea of what you are supposed to do while you are out there. Unless you really get out of hand, you may chase, rough house and put your feet on everyone and every thing else. The only humans you know are the "waiters" who feed you, and the "restroom attendants" who turn you out to go to the bathroom. Respect people? Surely you jest.

No one comes into or goes out of your kennel without your knowledge. You are all seeing; all knowing. There are no surprises, day in and day out. The only thing it is ever hoped you will do is win, place or show, and that you don't have much control over. It is in your blood, it is in your heart, it is in your fate--or it is not.

And when it is not, then suddenly you are expected to be a civilized person in a fur coat. But people don't realize you may not even speak English. Some of you don't even know your names, because you didn't need to. You were not asked or told to do anything as an individual; you were always part of the "condo association"; the sorority or fraternity and everyone did everything together, as a group or pack. The only time you did anything as an individual is when you schooled or raced, and even then, You Were Not Alone.

Suddenly, he is expected to behave himself in places he's never been taught how to act. He is expected to take responsibility for saying when he needs to go outside, to come when he is called, not to get on some or all of the furniture, and to not eat food off counters and tables. He is dropped in a world that is not his, and totally without warning, at that.

Almost everything he does is wrong. Suddenly he is a minority. Now he is just a pet. He is unemployed, in a place where people expect him to know the rules and the schedule, even when there aren't any. (How many times have you heard someone say, "He won't tell me when he has to go out." What kind of schedule is that?) Have you heard the joke about the dog who says, "My name is No-No Bad Dog. What's yours?" To me that is not even funny. All the protective barriers are gone. There is no more warning before something happens. There is no more strength in numbers. He wakes up with a monster human face two inches from his. (With some people's breath, this could scare Godzilla.) Why should he not, believe that this "someone," who has crept up on him, isn't going to eat him for lunch? (I really do have to ask you ladies to consider how you would react if someone you barely knew crawled up on you while you were asleep?) No, I will not ask for any male input.

Now he is left alone, for the first time in his life, in a strange place, with no idea of what will happen or how long it will be before someone comes to him again. If he is not crated, he may go though walls, windows or over fences, desperately seeking something familiar, something with which to reconnect his life. If he does get free, he will find the familiarity, within himself: the adrenaline high, the wind in his ears, the blood pulsing and racing though his heart once again--until he crashes into a car.

Often, the first contact with his new family is punishment, something he's never had before, something he doesn't understand now, especially in the middle of the rest of the chaos. And worst of all, what are the most common human reactions to misbehavior? We live in a violent society, where the answer to any irritation is a slap, punch, kick, whip, or rub your nose in it. Under these circumstances, sometimes I think any successful adoption is a miracle.

He is, in effect, expected to have all the manners of at least a six-year old child. But, how many of you would leave an unfamiliar six-year old human alone and loose in your home for hours at a time and not expect to find who knows what when you got back? Consider that if you did, you could be brought up on charges of child abuse, neglect and endangerment. Yet, people do this to Greyhounds and this is often the reason for so many returns.

How many dogs have been returned because they did not know how to tell the adoptor when they had to go out? How many for jumping on people, getting on furniture, counter surfing, separation anxiety, or defensive actions due to being startled or hurt (aka growling or biting)? So, let's understand: Sometimes it is the dog's "fault" he cannot fit in. He is not equipped with the social skills of a six-year old human. But you can help him."

 

End quote.

[racindog]

"....We’ve had a chat to our adoption agency who think we have over-indulged him (yes, probably!) and that for some reason, while he respects my husband, he doesn’t respect me. We obviously need to get some training done, teach him what he is allowed to do and what is not acceptable."

Exactly. You should have showed him who was boss the first time he acted out to you. Unless you change YOUR ways it will only get worse. They are VERY smart and perceptive. He knows better than to challenge your husband. He also knows he can push you around. Just take control and demand respect. If he growls at you give him a correction and don't tolerate it. That's what pack leaders do. That's also what the dog pack members want- a strong benevolent leader they can respect. Don't worry about the bites-dogs bite-its just a communication tool with them. He clearly exercised some level of bite inhibition or it would have been much worse which is another plus for him. Its nothing personal to you and as soon as you demonstrate that you are in charge he will respect you as he does your husband and won't even do it anymore.

I fostered a houndie one time. I was the 2nd foster-the first kicked him out for fighting. When he went to his first 'forever' home, like you they did not understand they had to be in charge. He was a very smart hound and he literally took control and was returned for biting them and being possessive of furniture etc. Of course I welcomed him back and I quickly adopted him myself. Turns out he was meant to be with me all along. He was the most empathetic soul I have ever known. But never ONCE, not even one time, did he ever try to get possessive of any of my furniture etc because he knew he didn't want to go there. He knew I would not tolerate it just as your guy knows your husband won't...and more importantly that you will.

Of course positive training is the only way to go! but that does not mean that there won't be a few occasions where a correction is warranted. A correction can be something as simple as a stern NO! and a strong look/body language. It usually don't take much for a greyhound but don't be afraid to stomp your foot down and say NO! and give a tug on the collar and then putting him in his kennel or moving him etc to show him YOU are in control. And NEVER NEVER punish or correct him for growling. If you do that then in the future you will have no warning because he will stop growling to let you know he is uncomfortable and will simply strike out without any warning. If he growls try taking charge right away; act like you are in authority; snap the lead on and move him etc. but don't punish him for growling. There is nothing at all the wrong with him. He is just being a dog. But you need to be a pack leader. Once you figure out how all will be and will stay well JMO.

[greytpups]

There's lots of info available and lots of books to read. I recomend reading books by Patrica O'Connell, Dr Sylvia Yin who focused on postive reinforcement,and learning about NILF (nothing in life is free). I'd also check out pack leader info because it has been debunked a long time ago to avoid confusion. https://positively.com/dog-training/myths-truths/pack-theory-debunked/

[Guest Amber]

I would first take him to your vet for a thorough exam to rule out any physical cause/pain/discomfort. Once this is ruled out, ask your vet for a referral to a properly qualified behaviourist to have a look at him and make recommendations/forward a modification plan.

 

Your dog has already escalated from snarling to making contact; you don't say how bad the bites were, but the fact they were multiple (hand and leg) is worrying. He also now knows that biting 'works' and may skip the more subtle communications and go straight to biting. I am fairly certain that this is a pattern and will happen again - it's not a 'one-off' as he has shown the behaviour several times.

 

Although vet/behaviourist will not be cheap believe me it is worth it to sort this out now, before he bites someone so badly that leaves only one option (euthanasia)

[countrypaws]

Most owners fail to own the behavioral issus of their pets. It's great that Helen is at least asking questions. I agree with Trudy that this dog can't be allowed on your bed or other furniture period, at all. he's claiming ownership of your space, which is a sign that Marty lacks respect for you.

 

They are very willing to look to a medical issue or the pet's past or anything before they look at their own behavior which may unwittingly reinforce the unwanted behavior.

 

This is bourne out when people return a dog to a greyhound group saying that "the dog is this" or "the dog does that." What they leave out is that the dog was crated for 12 hours a day, or the owner was extremely nervous aroudn the dog and inconsistent in how the he/she treated the dfog, and on and on.

 

Most dog behavior derives from the dog's environment and the interactions with humans. If humans expect no boundaries for a dog, the dog won't have any boundaries. Calm environments and calm humans engender calm dogs.

 

I once heard an owner say, "My dog gets up on my lap and pees on me. But he loves me." He may love you, but he definitely does not respect you. Dogs, like people, respect quiet, calm leadership.

[Guest Amber]

It's standard protocol for medical issues to first be ruled out - not an 'excuse'. Then the point of a behaviourist is a professional person to evaluate the dog, how serious its behavioural problems are and if possible, to recommend a modification training programme. The behaviourist should pick up on any accidental reinforcement that the owners are giving the unwanted behaviour and advise what to do.

 

just saying 'keep the dog off the furniture' is not really all that helpful - for instance, the dog may take umbrage at being told to get off (if it is done in the wrong way) and that could provoke more biting. It is really better to leave aggression issues to professional, hands-on people who are qualified and can actually see the dog and its environment, than to advise any other course of action over the internet.

[sobesmom]

First - he's no longer allowed on your bed. And I'd even suggest that he's no longer allowed on any other furniture either.

Then start working on training. I would suggest you do the training and your husband backs it up.

I completely agree.

[NeylasMom]

It's standard protocol for medical issues to first be ruled out - not an 'excuse'. Then the point of a behaviourist is a professional person to evaluate the dog, how serious its behavioural problems are and if possible, to recommend a modification training programme. The behaviourist should pick up on any accidental reinforcement that the owners are giving the unwanted behaviour and advise what to do.

 

just saying 'keep the dog off the furniture' is not really all that helpful - for instance, the dog may take umbrage at being told to get off (if it is done in the wrong way) and that could provoke more biting. It is really better to leave aggression issues to professional, hands-on people who are qualified and can actually see the dog and its environment, than to advise any other course of action over the internet.

Here here. Especially in a multiple bite situation.

 

And case in point on the medical front - I saw a client just last week for aggression issues. We talked about management as well as a behavior modification plan but there were a few red flags that made me wonder if something physical was involved. Mind you, I had already asked about a previous medical history and the owner told me he had none. But I dug deeper and low and behold he had tested positive for Lyme while at the shelter. I was concerned it may not have been properly treated so told her we'd hold off on behavior mod until she saw her vet. Got a call today thanking me because he does in fact still have an active infection.

 

Will treating him resolve the aggression issues? Don't know yet. But we will certainly wait until we know he's feeling better and then evaluate where to go from there.

Edited February 16, 2017 by NeylasMom