Allergies Question

[sarabz]

So Kirby has allergies - to what we are not sure.

 

We finally found a food that agrees with him and produces decent stools - Iams green bag large breed (large breed because Costco has 50# bags for $42).

 

He's been on Apoquel to manage itching. We've just completed almost a month off of it and the itching is back. Not as badly as this summer when he was scratching his shoulders raw, but it's back.

 

Vet is recommending 12 weeks on Hills Z/D diet with Apoquel only as needed to rule out food allergies (he's a picky eater so I guess he'll eat if hungry enough. What happens if his stools go back to mush? Forgot to ask the vet that question).

 

I don't know really anything about allergies so here is what I asked the vet and would love your thoughts, too -

 

If we do the Hills Z/D and determine that he has allergies other than food, and go with the allergy tests, what are the treatment options? Does it depend on the allergy type? I'm just wondering if after we spend $250+/- for the new food (for the 12 weeks) plus $95 for Apoquel to have as needed plus $300+/- for the allergy testing, are we back to a daily med anyway? Obviously the ideal is finding out what exactly the trigger is but I'm also looking at whether the end result/treatment is going to be vastly different if we know what the trigger is.

 

So that's the question - do we pour several hundred dollars into finding out what he's allergic to if he's going to end up on a daily med anyway because he's allergic to, say, mold spores and we live in a 90 year old house that is never going to be totally without them? (We don't have a mold problem per se but we all know that houses can be full of allergens, that's just an example).

 

Thanks GT

 

[XTRAWLD]

Kasey was terrible for allergies. He had both environmental and food based. What I suggest is try to narrow down what might be causing the allergies by doing a blood test. Just honestly get that done and out of the way and save yourself a bit of grief. While it is not as accurate as a skin test, you'll get some information and a better direction than just trying to shoot anything that moves. Keep in mind that if he is on meds, he'd have to be off them for about 6 weeks before you can do a skin test, and that was not an option for Kasey. If he's been off meds for 4 weeks, can you stretch it for 2 more to do a skin test? Kasey's itching occurred mainly on his ears, neck, head and face, and he would scratch like crazy so to keep him from harming himself, prednisone is what worked to keep the allergies at bay and he stayed on that until the end of his days.

 

I became quite the pro at the pet store trying to read ingredient lists on different foods. Food trials were lengthy as it takes a while for everything to leave the system and for the body to react. You also have to be SUPER SUPER diligent of rewarding with cookies, and not giving ANY table scraps. Isolating the food source is paramount with food trials. Of course, these foods as you've discovered not only have to work well for the allergies but also for the poops. What worked best for Kasey was Natural Balance Fish and Sweet Potato. But we were driven there by the blood test, so again, get some peace of mind and some direction so you can start ruling out what might be the cause.

 

Switching to raw made an immense difference, because he was allergic to chicken, and chicken is in SO many varieties of kibble, even the derivatives of it we had to stay away from. To be truthful, we also avoided raw chicken. But turkey, not in the same family, was fair game! If you want to investigate the raw option, I also highly recommend it. Poops will also be fixed. I wholeheartedly wish I had done the blood test first, and then went raw, so that is my strongest recommendation to you. It would have saved years of trials and money and doggie wellness.

 

Prednisone took care of the environmental allergies that I couldn't alleviate with food, and he was on the lowest dose possible to keep them at bay. Perhaps you will maintain the use of Apoquel as well.....but I'm not sure. We did try many medications too, but you know what, they were expensive and not a sustainable method for me to upkeep.

 

If you need any other info about my experience, feel free to PM me directly!

Edited January 24, 2017 by XTRAWLD

[MaryJane]

Have you ever tried a homemade diet of hamburger, oatmeal, rice, and veggies ?

 

I've had dogs with bad allergies and most were corrected or managed by getting rid of all chicken in the diet and in some cases, wheat. Commercial food usually has chicken or chicken oil and the only way to control it is by making your own food. Commercial food also has preservatives that can contribute to triggering other health issues.

[sarabz]

Thanks! As much as I love the idea of raw, it's not an option for me right now - I just can't take it on with working full time and a toddler. I'd worry about meeting nutritional needs, keeping a steady supply when I don't have much freezer space, etc.

 

My vet did come back with more info which is good.

[greysmom]

Putting him on the Hills may or may not work. Our girl is intolerant of chicken - any and all forms of chicken - and she reacted to the chicken in the Hills even though it's "supposedly" hydrolyzed to be non-reactive. IMO, the only way to do a proper food trial is by an elimination diet. It does take time to do, but at least you know exactly what he reacts to fairly quickly. I would know within a few days by how much her tummy grumbled, by the poop quality, by her nausau level how it was going.

 

Raw doesn't have to be that complicated anymore. There are loads of commercially prepared raw diets available now - frozen, dehydrated, chubs - just about any way you could imagine. They eliminate nearly all of the cleanliness and storage concerns, but it does get spendy, which is why I think most people end up doing the prep work themselves.

 

It is possible to find foods without chicken. As I said above, Lilly can't have *any* ingredient that's listed containing any sort of chicken product. Even chicken fat preservative is a no-no for her. The amount of limited ingredient foods has greatly expanded in the last few years, and for the most part, they are high quality and well made. Her fave is food made by Weruva - a canned food called "Kurubota Hero" (turkey and pork), and a lamb kibble.

[sarabz]

Yep, we went through at least 5-6 foods before we found that Iams (which is chicken based) worked pretty well. We tried several grain-free single protein sources before trying the green bag.

[Guest Cilla]

I would suggest too to try a homemade diet ( not necesseraly raw). Our sheperd dog Dora had several allergies both enviromental and food based but with the homemade diet she's itching a lot less.

[sarabz]

I would suggest too to try a homemade diet ( not necesseraly raw). Our sheperd dog Dora had several allergies both enviromental and food based but with the homemade diet she's itching a lot less.

Thanks, but same issues as raw - essentially any diet that isn't kibble isn't a workable solution right now.

[cleptogrey]

if in your spare, haha, time you decide to take the human approach to food challenge for allergy testing you might feel a little less lighter in the pocketbook. i personally went thru food testing and it's a PITA, but i did find out what i was allergic to. then i was able to re-challenge the foods and see what really needed to be eliminated. it basically confirmed the $400 RAST test and the scads of patch test on my body. now i know the worst offenders are potato, shell fish,farm raised fish(antibiotics are a sensitivity) almonds, chocolate(i cheat). but my allergist had me living on buckwheat , yams and rice.i was very unhappy and still using s nasal spray and antihistamines and had non-stop migraines.so, i'm not a fan of allergist...

 

 

I would suggest too to try a homemade diet ( not necesseraly raw). Our sheperd dog Dora had several allergies both enviromental and food based but with the homemade diet she's itching a lot less.

 

 

you can start off with just plain white rice and one form of protein that you think he tolerates, serve that for serval weeks and see what happens.as soon as you see a flare up eliminate the limited food and rethink it. then change the protein but stick with the rice unless he reacts to the rice. eventually go thru all the proteins and change to a grain- wheat, then oatmeal, then potato. this way if you do each combo for at least 2 weeks you can get a handle on intake and reactions. there are some pretty simple foods out there venison, duck/oatmeal, alternative combos that are limited ingredients that he might tolerate. then it's research and finding a store that will take back open bags, pet goods is excellent with that.

 

if it's environmental aside from the mold situation in your home(dehumidifiers work) then think about laundry detergent. maybe an extra rinse w/ vinegar and one of the sensitive skin/unscented soaps. remember even though it's winter the oak trees will be pollinating in a month or so. it's not the temperature, it's the amount of light. air purifiers work too.

 

i do have a friend who older saluki was a mess, wheezing, looked awful and i finally convinced her after tons of specialist to try this limited system of feeding. she was almost ready to euthanize the poor boy he was in such bad shape. well, he was allergic to all the foods, lived another 3 years to the ripe old age of 18 on rice or pasta and a limited protein. so, i'm crazy, but this does work. i'm also annoyed at the cost of the RX diets putting it mildly.

[sarabz]

Dude won't eat rice, so on top of all of this he's the pickiest darn eater I've ever had and will routinely walk away from his food

 

Thanks - will read this more in-depth later, but appreciate it!

[cleptogrey]

have you tried cooking rice w/ chicken breast in it? or even better chicken broth?