Kidney Issues

[Houndmommy03]

When I took Marlow for his yearly check up I mentioned to the vet that he drinks excessive amounts of water. He drinks more water than any other greyhound we've had. Initially I thought it might be a nervous habit, the fact that we live in Houston and its HOT or even due to not always having access to water in previous life (he was a bounce). Anyway, its gotten worse, not better. Keeping the water bowels full is a full time job. His Creatine levels in April 2014 were 1.6. At his appointment this past April they increased to 1.9 and we checked them today and they jumped to 2.3. We also checked his urine and he's not concentrating as well as he should, but its not terrible. She wants to put him on a special food and check him in a month. THis is all new to me - does it sound reasonable? Anything I can read to get up to speed on kidney issues? Thanks!

[MaryJane]

Do you know what the specific gravity of the urine is? Also, was it a first morning specimen?

 

If he is not concentrating the urine and the creat is a bit high, then it is reasonable to start looking at a lowered protein/phos food for the diet. My Larry has had this for years and is managed so far on a home-made diet which has been working well.

[Houndmommy03]

She told me the specific gravity but I didn't get it written down (and can't remember). It was not a first morning specimen. When we check in a month I will be sure to do that. He's 6 years old and I just want to make sure we do as much as possible to keep serious kidney issues away as long as possible. Good to hear youve been able to manage it for a long time.

[tbhounds]

Was there a food change from the time you first ran bloods?

[NeylasMom]

What about other blood work values? BUN and phosphorous in particular. Also cholesterol. If you can get a copy of all of the test results and post them here, that would be helpful. Was everything else normal on the urinalysis?

[Victor]

This sounds like our Duke; he always drank a ton of water. He also had gradually increasing creatinine levels. We didn't learn until it was too late that he had undiagnosed chronic kidney disease. Did your vet check for protein in the urine and/or check the urine protein creatinine ratio?

 

The new IDEXX test that detects kidney disease early on might also be helpful:

 

https://www.idexx.com/corporate/news-and-events/press-release/2015/20150119pr.html

 

Best thoughts for Marlow. I so wish we'd known about Duke's kidney disease before it was too late.

 

Take care,

Victor

[racindog]

Consider giving him Enalapril. We put all my kidney dogs on it and it definitely helped them all and is SAFE to boot. Have never seen a side effect. I also would be limiting the phosphorous in his diet. Not that hard to do-just print out a table of how much is in his foods and start picking and choosing the lower content items.

[Guest Shibu]

Just to summarize, we said in greyhounds with renal disease:

1. Use an ACE inhibitor such as Enalapril

2. Low phosphorus diet

 

Are there any other recommendations to help slow down the progression of renal disease in greyhounds? Is a low protein diet advisable?

 

I already have my Greyhound on a low sodium diet since I found out she was hypertensive.

 

I'm interested in either allopathic or homeopathic remedies.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Shibu

[tbhounds]

You would only place a dog on a ace inhibitor -enalapril or benazapril-(for renal disease) if your dog is proteniuric (protein in the urine). Other medications are better for your dog to control hypertension (such as amlodipine...)

Feeding a diet lower in phosphorus is beneficial. Phosphorus is in meats-think that's where the lower protein idea stemmed from-idk. Feeding purer forms of protein are preferred--eggs. Also when feeding meats like chicken dark meat has a lower phosphorus % (more fat).

Supplementing with omega 3's is helpful.

Also if your hound is proteinuric make sure you run a UPC-if elevated low dose aspirin should be started to prevent a potential stroke.

[Guest Shibu]

Thanks for be quick reply. She has shown a plus 3 protein in her last two urine test. If by UPC you mean protein creatinine ratio, she did have that done and I heard a message earlier today from the veterinarian stating that it was positive and that it confirmed renal disease but I did not get a chance to speak to him and discuss it further.

 

Thank you again.

[tbhounds]

Glomerulonephritis -protein losing neuropathy (PLN) is different than chronic renal disease (CRF) and is not all that uncommon finding with our retired racers. Thankfully, it appears to advance rather slowly compared to some other breeds where it is concerned a more serious disease (wheaten terriers). Depending on how elevated the UPC was will depend on if you need to medicate (low dose aspirin and enalapril) and start a diet change. Typically upc's above 0.5 were considered proteinuric and should be treated however, Dr Couto doesn't treat until he sees higher numbers.

[Guest Shibu]

That is great to hear.

 

You just made my day. I can't wait to speak to the vet tomorrow.

 

Thank you again.

[Guest kar]

What type of omega 3 are you talking about?

[Guest Shibu]

Glomerulonephritis -protein losing neuropathy (PLN) is different than chronic renal disease (CRF) and is not all that uncommon finding with our retired racers. Thankfully, it appears to advance rather slowly compared to some other breeds where it is concerned a more serious disease (wheaten terriers). Depending on how elevated the UPC was will depend on if you need to medicate (low dose aspirin and enalapril) and start a diet change. Typically upc's above 0.5 were considered proteinuric and should be treated however, Dr Couto doesn't treat until he sees higher numbers.

 

I spoke o the vet today. He said Cleo's UPC was 0.6.

He said a baby asprin is accepable to reduce he risk of emboli but he suggested Plavix daily instead.

He said an Omega-3 Fatty Acid supplementation was advisable.

He said she may not need a renal diet at this point bc she is not Uremic and her BUN is normal. He said he will consult with another vet prior to suggesting it for Cleo. He did say if she does nned one, Hills Diet KD was a good choice.

I asked about Cleo's Life expectancy with glomerulonephritis. He said Cleo is his only Greyhound but in his experience with other breeds, 1 year. Maybe 2. He said it in a way that he thought 1-2 yrs would give me relief. Cleo is 12y & 2mos. I don't know what I expected him to say. I suppose I wanted to hear him say "Don't worrk she will most likely pass away from something else before this becomes problematic".

 

Is 1-2 years what should be expected with a 12 yo greyhound with a UPC of ~0.6?

[tbhounds]

I wouldn't treat a hound with a UPC of 0.6 with anything at all-no meds no diet change. Also I know hounds that have lived with slight proteinuria for their whole lives.

If you would rather hear this from a specialist you could consult with Dr Couto--he is a board certified internist and oncologist. He knows greyhounds! Here's his link...

http://www.coutovetconsultants.com

[Guest Shibu]

I wouldn't treat a hound with a UPC of 0.6 with anything at all-no meds no diet change. Also I know hounds that have lived with slight proteinuria for their whole lives.

If you would rather hear this from a specialist you could consult with Dr Couto--he is a board certified internist and oncologist. He knows greyhounds! Here's his link...

http://www.coutovetconsultants.com

 

I really appreciate the advice. It is the most uplifting thing I have heard.

Still Cleo is not acting like her old self. She is much more lethargic over the last 6 mos & she does pant doing things she used to do effortlessly. And she never attempts to sprint anymore.

 

I will consult with Dr. Couto to find out if this is coming from elsewhere. She is hypertensive (Systolic 190mmHg) & she does have moderate MItral Valve regurgitation & mild tricuspid regurgitation. But he report from an echo indicated that these changes were not severe enough to cause any of her clinical symptoms. She did have an intermittently elevated resting heart rate but that has not been present over the last 3 weeks (since we started giving her Carprofen ~1-2x/ week for arthritis. She is more a bit active when it is not hot but that is not often (Summer in NYC) so maybe she is even less tolerant of the heat than she used to be now that she is 12+ yrs.

 

I can't wait to speak to Dr. Couto.

Thank you so much,

[Batmom]

I'm with tbhounds. Would make absolutely certain that hound doesn't have a urinary tract infection -- make sure vet spins down the urine and examines the sediment, not just dipstick test.

[tbhounds]

I assumed the vet ran the UPC on an inactive sample??? Also have you run a basic chemistry and CBC panel? May want to run a T4/TSH too.

Edited to add-I wouldn't consider your hound to be hypertensive either (190 systolic is actually pretty good for a gh!)

Edited July 18, 2015 by tbhounds

[Guest Shibu]

Glomerulonephritis -protein losing neuropathy (PLN) is different than chronic renal disease (CRF) and is not all that uncommon finding with our retired racers. Thankfully, it appears to advance rather slowly compared to some other breeds where it is concerned a more serious disease (wheaten terriers). Depending on how elevated the UPC was will depend on if you need to medicate (low dose aspirin and enalapril) and start a diet change. Typically upc's above 0.5 were considered proteinuric and should be treated however, Dr Couto doesn't treat until he sees higher numbers.

I am waiting to hear back from the doctor. I just saw your list of vets that are familiar with greyhounds in the NY area. I am thinking of bringing her to see one of them pending Dr. Cuoto's email consult.

I will ask him if he can recommend anyone of theM instead of just picking out one on the list bc he is closest.

 

Thank you again. I wish I knew of this resource sooner.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Shibu

[Guest Shibu]

I'm with tbhounds. Would make absolutely certain that hound doesn't have a urinary tract infection -- make sure vet spins down the urine and examines the sediment, not just dipstick test.

How do I make absolutely certain there is no UTI? THere were a few WBCs in the first Urine sample, but none in the second and none in the 3 samples used for the UPC.

[Guest Shibu]

I assumed the vet ran the UPC on an inactive sample??? Also have you run a basic chemistry and CBC panel? May want to run a T4/TSH too.

Edited to add-I wouldn't consider your hound to be hypertensive either (190 systolic is actually pretty good for a gh!)

I am not sure what an inactive sample means?

 

My vet had me collect samples over 3 days. The 1st 2 samples were refrigerated after collecting & the last was collected just prior to handing them all over to the vet.

 

Labs 07/03/15

Superchem

Tests Result

Total Protein 5.9

Albumin 3.2

Globulin 2.7

A/G Ratio 1.2

AST 36

ALT 59

Alk Phosphotase 26

GGTP 6

Total Bilirubin 0.1

Urea Nitrogen 26

Creatinin 17 (HIGH)

BUN/Cre Ratio 1.6

Phosphorus 4.1

Glucose 99

Calcium 9.4

Corrected Calcium 9.7

Magnesium 1.4 (LOW)

Sodium 147

Potassium 4.4

Na K Ratio 33

Chloride 108

Cholesterol 238

Triglycerides 61

Amylase 604

Lipase 253

CPK 114

 

CBC

WBC 4.5

Platelet Count 134 (LOW)

 

Total T4 1.3

 

Heartworm Antigen Negative

Antech Cardio BNP Canine Negative for CHF

 

Ova and Parasite / Giardia Negative (ELISA)

[racindog]

I forgot to mention and I really need to...... please check out this detoxifier http://www.newtonlabs.net/Pets-Detoxifier/productinfo/P025/

Of course many will scoff at the idea since it is a homeopathic but I found out about it on this forum. Two people claimed it had actually lowered the creatinine/BUN of their hounds. I figured that was rather brash but I knew it oculdn't hurt so being adventurous I thought I would try it to see if it did help any. Guess what? It lowered Bobber's numbers too! and although I only gave it to her periodically after the first 2 months or so she was one of them like tbhounds mentioned that had protein in her urine her whole life with no issues as a result. I have since found out it also helps dogs that have anal gland issues. Good stuff.

[tbhounds]

Do you have the urinalysis result? An inactive sample essentially is one that is not active with infection-no bacteria, blood, white cells etc. if you run a UPC off of an I a give sample you will get an inaccurate UPC result. (For example blood may increase the protein result). Can you list Antechs reference range for the creatinine? I'm only familiar with Idexx's. Otherwise those results are fantastic.