Escaped!

[Guest klipper]

So we have had Echo in our lives about 2.5 weeks now and so far have had a pretty decent time of it. She transitioned out of the crate at night to sleep on a bed on our floor and things have been going swimmingly.

 

We've been dealing with a little crate hatred while we both go to work for the day (at first reluctance to go in, then biting / pawing at the doors.) We enlisted the help of our adoption agency and they said to muzzle her in her crate so she can't hurt herself. And she seemed (based on my webcam) much calmer and happier muzzled in the crate. Mission accomplished we thought.

 

Well, to my suprise..i casually check the camera and the muzzle is on the floor, door blown off its hinges, and no dog in sight. I call my mom who lives in the same town to run over and see what had happened...and when she walked...she was snoozing on the floor of the living room.

 

No damage

No accidents

 

Is this her way of saying, "ok..ditch the crate people...this is ridiculous" How did she get her muzzle off? How did she battering ram the crate? How do you finally trust your greyhound to have the run of the house while you're at work (8 hour work day)

 

I'm relieved and consider myself vey lucky that no damage (to dog or home) was discovered upon arrival. I guess my main concern is she's only been home 2.5 weeks and I wouldn't say we've earned each others trust completely.

 

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Hubcitypam]

I'd ditch the crate or leave it as a den with the door open. She could injure herself trying to get out. Could your Mom or a neighbor come by mid day and let her out? Could you contain her in the kitchen with baby gates?

[Charlies_Dad]

Agree with Pam stated. Sounds like keeping the crate open and perhaps in a gated off area of the house would be better.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

My dog was only crated for about 3 days. He did NOT like it, defecated, peed, freaked in general while in the crate. We just ditched it and he was basically perfect from then on (yes he did have a couple accidents, but they were our fault) Not all dogs are chewers/destroyers. Try baby gating into a small DOG PROOFED area, no cords, pillows, small ingestibles in the area. Set your dog up for success you could also muzzle your pup in this area (although a determined dog can still chew through a muzzle)

[Brandiandwe]

As for when to trust..... we never crated. The first time we had to leave the girls for eight hours, I was terrified. And I came home to two happy hounds and no problems at all.

 

Sounds like she's made herself at home!

[Guest june]

Just brought home an 18 month old girlie. I have not put her in the crate because she let me know in no uncertain terms she hated it. No accidents. I do put the muzzle on her to keep her from chewing things or eating things that might be bad for her. She was left for 7 hours with no accidents. Sounds like she is trying to tell you to give her a chance.

[Guest IrskasMom]

Yeah for Echo aka Hudini

[KickReturn]

Please don't crate that dog again. We assume that a Greyhound can tolerate a crate because that is how they live at the track. But unless you have greyhounds in crates on both sides, above, below etc., than you are not simulating the same experience. It is the single warning I needed when I adopted and yet it was not given. I learned the hard way that my Grey can never be crated. At this point if given a choice between leaving him in a crate or leaving the front door wide open when I am away, I would choose the front door option every time - no exageration.

 

It's time to trust your dog. Dog proof the house, close doors to rooms that are off limits, and cross your fingers. Make sure there are comfortable beds in all the prime locations. If you need to keep the muzzle on it can be attached to the collar but it sounds like not even that is necessary. There may be the odd accident but don't stress about it. The more walking you can do before you leave the more relaxed your dog is likely to be. Also leaving the dog during the night may bring a different reaction than leaving it during the day.

 

Finally, just because the dog is out of the crate doesn't mean the end of separation anxiety. Working on alone training can be helpful.

Edited November 19, 2013 by KickReturn

[Acadianarose]

Sounds like Echo gave you a sign that he does not like the crate. Payton stayed in his crate for 3-4 weeks while I was at work but he kept peeing in it. I left him out while I went to work on a Friday since I get off early on Fridays. I tried baby gating him in the kitchen but when I got home, he had jumped the gate.

 

After that, I left him baby gated in the living room and he was fine. I was panicked to get home for a week or so but he was fine. He had one accident when I left early and wasn't able to make it home for lunch to let him out. As time has gone on, he is able to hold it longer as well.

 

If you can, try leaving him for a couple of hours to see how he does. You can muzzle him if you think you need to. Before I leave, I try to make sure to pick up anything he might get a hold of.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Acadianarose

[Guest Scouts_mom]

Since my first grey hated the crate I have never used a crate on the five more recent hounds I've lived with. Instead, I baby-gate them in the kitchen until I'm sure they are okay in the house and okay with the cats. It's worked six times!

 

If you do baby-gate your dog in a room, make sure it is a room that they are used to being in and from which they can see out--otherwise they can panic if they can't see what is going on around them. Kitchens work great. Bathrooms, closets, and some laundry rooms do not.

[GeorgeofNE]

The need for/usefulness of crates is highly over stated, IMHO. Not every dog considers it a "safe place," and a wire crate in an empty house is NOTHING like the familiar kennel environment, so assuming that a Greyhound is "used to" being crated and therefore will transition to homelife more easily is just...wrong!

 

Many, many dogs do love their crates, but could you possibly have gotten a more clear signal that this particular dog doesn't??

 

My dog hated his crate. I mean HATED it. My adoption group wanted me to stick with their program (virtually round the clock crating at first) and I was on the verge or returning him because he was making life miserable for everyone within earshot of my condo. I finally gave in to what MY instincts told me and put it away and he hasn't made a peep since!

 

Never chewed anything either!

[Guest klipper]

Thanks for the comments everyone. We are doing alone training all day today (in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out) varying short times, etc. (per everyones recommendations) and we'll see how it goes tomorrow muzzled with free reign and hope for the best.

 

At some point, you have to take a leap of faith.

[Guest RMarie]

Thought you had a Houdini dog for a second, didn't you?

 

We also started out crating James. He didn't love it or hate it. He would willingly go in when we were home and he didn't balk at going in when we left in the morning (he'll do anything for food), but he REALLY didn't like it when he couldn't get to us immediately upon our arrival home. We started dreading walking into the door only to endure his whining/crying/barking/'oh my word get me out of here' screams.

 

But....one day, I came home without DH and there was silence. I thought "OMG, he's dead, James is dead, OMG, OMG, OMG." I frantically unlock the door and turn the knob and there he is!!! Happy as can be, wagging his tail, jumping on me. I was white as a ghost, I'm sure. I step into the foyer and lean in to see the crate in the living room. It was perfectly intake, DOOR CLOSED. **? I started checking the house for accidents. None. Whew! But, how did he get out when he was obviously put back in by the dog-walker?????

 

It's a collapsible crate and he realized the walls move apart. Through his violent nestings, he'd dislodged one of the corners, and just slipped (it was still a tight fit) right out, somehow with no injuries. We were too nervous to just let him have free reign, so we tried the crate again the next day and tied that corner together. But, James had tasted freedom and wasn't having it. He shredded the ties and got back out. No accidents, again, though, so he's had free reign ever since.

 

Good luck!!!

[Guest k9soul]

Rudy is another one who does not tolerate crating. I have never tried, but he is a bounce and at his previous homes when he was crated he would seem to just have an emotional breakdown, defecating and urinating himself in the crate, acting out with fear aggression when he was approached by his new owners while crated, and so on. I was kind of relieved when they recommended not crating him because my house is already so small that a large crate would take up a lot of room. He does very well without it, wonderful house manners.

 

I just always worry how he will do if he ever needs to stay at the vet's where he will surely would need to be be kenneled. Just hoping there is never a need for that.

[sobesmom]

Thanks for the comments everyone. We are doing alone training all day today (in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out) varying short times, etc. (per everyones recommendations) and we'll see how it goes tomorrow muzzled with free reign and hope for the best.

 

At some point, you have to take a leap of faith.

Good for you. I'm another non-crater. I've used them as need for fosters that needed them for a short time, if at all. My first Grey broke off an incisor and cut himself up breaking out of a crate, after making it known to me that he didn't want to be in there. My mistake for not listening to my dog. (I'm NOT saying that crates are bad. I just think some group's "crate everyone" philosophy is a bit....generic.)

 

My only suggestion - if you're giving free reign - Control the area. Close doors to any rooms the dog shouldn't be in, or babygate (that doesn't always work), and babyproof the heck outta the area that's available to the dog. I'd suggest leaving out dogtoys, dogbeds, and a stuffed frozen Kong. Pick up everything else just in case. Even good dogs "explore" when they find themselves alone with roaming room - you could loose a shoe or a remote or a phone if you're not careful at first. Don't close her in a small room. of course. I'd leave the TV or radio on. And pull up the blinds - LOTS of dogs that are new to freedom LOVE windows - Hey - there's stuff to see out there - and rip up blinds accidentally.

 

You may want to take your $10k Persian rug, Ming Vase, and Leather-bound great-grandparent's photo album out of the area too! LOL! Seriously though - look around - if you're going to be devastated to loose it - remove it. Better overly cautious. I think of a dog "loose" for the first day the equivanent of an unsupervised 3 year old kid with a grape juice box and a fist-full of Sharpies.

 

It'll be fine.

[sobesmom]

Rudy is another one who does not tolerate crating. I have never tried, but he is a bounce and at his previous homes when he was crated he would seem to just have an emotional breakdown, defecating and urinating himself in the crate, acting out with fear aggression when he was approached by his new owners while crated, and so on. I was kind of relieved when they recommended not crating him because my house is already so small that a large crate would take up a lot of room. He does very well without it, wonderful house manners.

 

I just always worry how he will do if he ever needs to stay at the vet's where he will surely would need to be be kenneled. Just hoping there is never a need for that.

I was very happy to learn when I got my first grey that my vet has crates for smaller dogs, and a kennel room, with big "stalls" (with chain-link walls) for bigger dogs, or phobic little dogs (I saw a Yorkie in one once). They're probably 6 ft x 8 ft each and go up to the ceiling. It's more of a kennel than anything. We've never had to have an overnight dog stay thankfully - but I'm glad that if we do I won't have a grey in a crate in a strange place. My vet would never put a large dog in their crates - they use greyhound - sized crates for the little dogs. Of course, it's a small practice so they don't have many guests at a time.

[Guest klipper]

Well my wife went in and out about 60 times yesterday of varying lengths. Starting with barely leaving and we actually worked up to a 4 hour outing to go to a movie. (At night, first day of alone training..yeah...we had a leap of faith)

 

 

And.....

 

Everything was fine. Nothing disturbed, nothing dirty, just came home to a wagging tail. Today is our first day with both of us gone to work so we'll see how it goes.

[Guest RMarie]

Yay! Good luck!

[Guest k9soul]

I was very happy to learn when I got my first grey that my vet has crates for smaller dogs, and a kennel room, with big "stalls" (with chain-link walls) for bigger dogs, or phobic little dogs (I saw a Yorkie in one once). They're probably 6 ft x 8 ft each and go up to the ceiling. It's more of a kennel than anything. We've never had to have an overnight dog stay thankfully - but I'm glad that if we do I won't have a grey in a crate in a strange place. My vet would never put a large dog in their crates - they use greyhound - sized crates for the little dogs. Of course, it's a small practice so they don't have many guests at a time.

 

That would be a good thing. I think if I ever do need to leave him at the vet for a time I will at least try to request if he can be put in a run rather than a kennel crate.

 

 

Well my wife went in and out about 60 times yesterday of varying lengths. Starting with barely leaving and we actually worked up to a 4 hour outing to go to a movie. (At night, first day of alone training..yeah...we had a leap of faith)

 

 

And.....

 

Everything was fine. Nothing disturbed, nothing dirty, just came home to a wagging tail. Today is our first day with both of us gone to work so we'll see how it goes.

 

And this sounds great. Fingers crossed that she will continue to do well at home with free roam

[GreytNut]

Wire crates are much easier to escape from than the plastic Vari-Kennel types. Argus ripped the living daylights out of himself escaping from a wire crate when he first came home. Like you, we decided to try leaving him uncrated. He was good as gold. Not all hounds tolerate being crated. Some love crates. Riley tried to steal a crate from a visiting hound.... When we set it up he immediately crated himself and refused to come out. But he is fine loose in the house so he doesn't get crated. None of my other hounds have been good about being crated and they have all been trustworthy in the house so we didn't force the issue.

 

If your hound has a talent for taking the muzzle off when unattended, you might try purchasing a muzzle keeper to help it stay on. Riley can take his muzzle off in a matter of seconds without a muzzle keeper.

[Guest psdirector]

Hutch and Tibbs were in a prison program before they came to us. Both of Hutch's prison moms sent letters saying NO CRATE because he had broken teeth trying to gnaw his way out. We tried just crating Tibbs (he is the much more laid back brother and he was fine with it) and confining Hutch in the kitchen. No dice. Then we tried putting them both in the kitchen and came home to a real mess. My daughter suggested gating them into the entire kitchen/ breakfast room / family room area - and they have been perfect ever since. That is THEIR spot during the day. Even if we open the gate, they won't leave until bedtime when they happily trot upstairs to their beds in our bedroom. Talk about creatures of habit! We tried to take them upstairs during the day a couple of times and they looked totally confused, turned around and ran back to the family room. Maybe it's the security, maybe it's because the door to their beloved back yard is there, but we never looked back at the crates.

[cometdust1]

Crates are overrated. Baby gates? My boy thinks it's a high step. He does fine out and about as long as the binds are up and curtains pulled back so he can see out. If windows are blocked, blinds and curtains come down!

[Guest jetska]

Mouse is fine in her crate, she sleeps in it and has been left in it for 5 - 6hrs max when we go out. Barbie does not tolerate a crate at all - she was crated for a little while for toilet training when we first got her but I tried to crate her during her recovery from surgery and came home to a very unhappy dog and poop everywhere.

[Guest june]

Mouse is fine in her crate, she sleeps in it and has been left in it for 5 - 6hrs max when we go out. Barbie does not tolerate a crate at all - she was crated for a little while for toilet training when we first got her but I tried to crate her during her recovery from surgery and came home to a very unhappy dog and poop everywhere.

Oh yes, I had that experience once. And once was enough!

[Guest klipper]

Just a follow up. She's been superb out of her crate ever since the escaping and happily roams the home while we are away. Well, she whines when we leave because she misses us, but calms down after 2 minutes or so and goes to sleep.

 

Thanks everyone.